I HAVE DONE AN ENGINE REBUILD AND TRANNY SWAP ON A CHERRY 1968.I AM GOING FROM A POWERGLIDE TO A MUNCIE. THE MUNCIE AND BELL HOUSE CAME OUT OF A TRUCK APPLICATION SO WHEN INSTALLED ON MY CAMARO, THE STARTER DOES NOT ENGAGE THE FLYWHEEL. MY QUESTION IS SHOULD I BY A LAKEWOOD BELL HOUSING OR TRY TO FIND ONE FROM A MUNCIE? IF I SHOULD GET A MUNCIE HOUSING WHERE AND HOW MUCH SHOULD IT COST ME? I CAN GET A LAKEWOOD FOR ABOUT
$220.00

Ditch,
You just need to get the correct starter. It has nothing to do with the Bell Housing. The starter bolts to the block and there are several different configurations possible depending on what diameter flywheel you have and if the block has a straight or angled bolt pattern for the starter.
Hope this helps,

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Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

SO HOW CAN I TELL WHAT STARTER I NEED TO GET?
I HAVE TWO ,ONE FROM THE TRUCK APPLICATION AND ONE FROM THE ORIGINAL AUTO TRANS. NEITHER ONE ENGAGES THE FLYWHEEL.

Typing in all caps is considered shouting!

Sorry
I did not know it mattered.

Ditch,

The two most common flywheels are the 153 tooth and the 168 tooth flywheel the 153 tooth being the smaller. If you have a 153 tooth flywheel and a starter made for a 168 tooth flywheel the gears will not mesh. You have two solutions. 1. Purchase an aftermarket starter from Summit or Jegs that works with both a 153 or a 168. I use a CVR starter that weighs a good deal less than the stock one and has more cranking power. It cost $150. or 2. Crawl under your car and look at the bolt pattern on your starter. If the bolts are inline (side by side) then most likely you have a 168 tooth starter. If they are at an angle then you have a 153 tooth starter. It sounds as if in your case you have a 153 flywheel and a 168 starter. Just make sure you check if you decide to purchase a starter from a local parts store that can only be used with one type of flywheel. If you can swing it buy the aftermarket starter so if you ever change flywheels in the future to run a different cluch you don't have to buy a new starter. Important - Make sure you properly shim the starter when you install it - that could be part of your problem too, you don't want to ruin a new starter just because you didn't take the time to properly line up the starter gear with the flywheel.
Good Luck & Happy Motoring. - Torker

Torker, maybe a dumb question, but what is the procedure for shimming the starter? What would I look for to see if the start and fly wheel are lined up? Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

Just a thought - I ran into a similar situation and was able to "trade" my starter at a wrecking yard. I told them what I needed and they took my starter and $20 for one that fit my application. It was a cheap fix. I've since swapped that for a mini-starter and a Lakewood Bellhousing

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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed
'99 HD Road King Classic

had a similar problem with a starter when I switched to my T56 six speed-as you may know it uses the 153 tooth starter. You can go to any parts store and ask for the an Oldsmobile
455 starter. These are heavy duty units obviously built to handle the stress of turning over a big block high compression era motor. I have never had a problem with mine. I paid $39 for it with a lifetime warranty from Auto Zone. Hope this info helps you.

I have been playing with Chevys for 25 years now and have never shimmed a starter. Have I just been lucky or have most people experienced this also?

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68SS ZZ4, 4sp T-10, 12 bolt, getting painted

78Z28, 330hp vortec, TH350, 10 bolt (just finished)

I've had one time out of numerous cars where the starter needed to be shimmed. But I never could seem to get it right and it slowly ground up the flywheel ring gear. I just installed a 400 SB in my '69 and I even had to drill and tap the block for another starter hole - fortunately the starter works perfect with no shims. I don't know how often shimming is required, but given my problems with it I'm glad I don't have to deal with it this time.

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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed
'99 HD Road King Classic

I don't think I gave enough info. One of the bolts goes to the bell house because it was off a truck,this is where my problem lies. So today I orderd a Lakewood shatter shield and clutch fork. I am sure this will fix my problem plus the Lakewood weighs less than that monster I had mounted before. Thanks to all for all the input. I will be back to the bulletin board often now that I have found it.

Since starters on sb chevy engines bolt to the block and mounting pad tolerances and bolt hole locations vary from block to block they may require to be "shimmed" to properly mesh the starter gear to the flywheel teeth. Without proper engagement damage to the flywheel teeth or starter gear can occur. This is especially imporatant with aftermarket starters. To check for proper alignment it is easiest to have the bellhousing off so you can look directly at the starter and flywheel. With a flat screwdriver pry the starter gear out all the way allowing it to mesh with the flywheel teeth. You want to have .025-.060 of clearance between a tooth on the starter and the flywheel. To make this easy use a paperclip (which is about .04 thick) and place it between a tooth on the starter gear and the valley between two teeth on the flywheel. You are looking for a snug fit where the paperclip just barely fits through. If you are off one way or another then you will have to place a shim under the mounting pad of the starter (between the starter and the block). To increase clearance place an entire shim across both bolt holes. To decrease clearance cut the shim in half and place it only on the outer bolt hole (the one closest to the tire) You may have to use more than one shim but don't use more than 4 shims - If thats the case something else may be wrong. Make sure you check at least 3 different places on the flywheel and shim at the minimum clearance location. Shims are generally available at most auto parts stores in the "Help" section.

The best advise that I can give is be sure to read the instructions if you purchase a new starter. They usually will include the ideal clearance for that brand of starter.
Good Luck - Torker

Ditch - When I installed my Lakewood bellhousing I discovered that my stock starter wouldn't fit at all. Lakewood said I had to use an aftermarket mini-starter. I found one for around $150 and it fit fine. I don't know if my Chevy starter didn't fit or none of the Chevy starters fit - but keep this in mind. (Uh.....sweetie, I know I said the bellhousing was the LAST thing I had to buy....but......what I meant was there might be just one more little thing.....)

Torker - Thanks for the explanation on shimming. Those are the best directions I've seen and I'm going to print them and throw them in my pile of important stuff to save in case I run across this again.

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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed
'99 HD Road King Classic

I had the exact same problem with my starter when I changed to a muncie 4 speed my original starter had about 1-2 inches before engaging the flywheel. I went to a local shop and got a chevy starter where the mounting bolts were parrallel instead of staggered(as the original was). The block was drilled to accept either starter. . I was able to correct this without buying a new bellhousing or flywheel. I know its too late now for the info, but I thought i'd let you know.

I use a Lakewood bellhousing and my starter bolted right up. No problems. the gear hit the flywheel just right. I did have to shave some of the starter nose to make it fit though. DONT FORGET http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif to get a adjustable pivit ball for you shift fork or you may have premature failure of your clutch system! They are specific clearances that must be met for the system to work. go to centerforces web site and they talk about that issue. :O