Does anyone know if the mounts are all the same for the 327,350 and 400...thanks

The placement on the motors should be the same, but the actual mounts are different, at least on the 400. I had to purchase new mounts for my 400 the origional were too big to fit in my 68.

Thanks for the response, so are you saying that the attachment points and holes on the block are identical?...

327 and 350 frame mounts on a first gen. are different. They position motor differently and can cause header or distributor clearance issues.

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69 Camaro Z28 "clone" - 327 AT
"461" camel back heads,
edelbrock, hooker, ultradyne,
TRW etc.
700R4 TPI transmission

What is the affect of using solid engine mounts vs. non-solid?

I'm having the same problems...
I don't see what the difference is though?
350 - 327 basically the same except for different pistons and crank???
How does this affect the mounts?
I HAD a 327 block now I have a 350 in my car, should I buy 327 mounts?
Thanks,
Jeff

A 400 never came in a camaro so if you're doing a transplant you won't find mounts for a 400... As mentioned above there are different frame mounts in a 1st gen for Z/28's/SS' and more std SBC'c 307/327 and of course the bigblock.

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...Dennis
"The '69 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/fine69_03.jpg), the '96 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/fine69_02.jpg) & the club (http://camaroslimited.com/)"

The only reason they did this (that I can see) a 350 or the 302 had an 8" balancer that would not clear the stabilizer bar in the 327 (6" balancer) position. (This is only a theory.) I have a 327 with 350 mounts and my Hooker headers fit great. My firewall had to be dented to clear my HEI. I did have to shim down my 1" stabilizer bar when equipped with my 8" balancer. My stock stabilizer bar cleared my 8" balancer.

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69 Camaro Z28 "clone" - 327 AT
"461" camel back heads,
edelbrock, hooker, ultradyne,
TRW etc.
700R4 TPI transmission

i,am not having troubles with the balancer hitting,but i have very little, i mean very little clearance at the firewall, i,am going with a 350 in a 69 and i can,t get the bellhousing bolt out on the left front the second one from the bottom,unless i creep the motor foward as i am slowly pulling the motor out is this normal, or does anyone know which frame mount actually sets a small block to the front more than any of the others, by the way i am running a stock dist and don,t have trouble with it hitting??

I belive the 327 frame mounts will move your motor slightly forward, but you are asking for header clearance and possible balancer issues. You should be able to get the bolts out using an open end wrench on the top ones and from underneath the car on the others. I know those can be a pain, but don't cause yourself other headaches by moving your motor !

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69 Camaro Z28 "clone" - 327 AT
"461" camel back heads,
edelbrock, hooker, ultradyne,
TRW etc.
700R4 TPI transmission

No mount is going to move the motor forward or backwards any. Think about it...all smallblocks use the exact same mount points...if you moved the engine forward then there would be a gap between the engine and tranny. The only differences in similar style motor mounts will be verticle distance (and the differences are small), and possible some side to side differences (again, very small differences).

exactly what i was thinking, travis. all sbc's motor mount bosses are in the same location, except for old ones w/o side bosses, of course. my '68 had a 327 originally, had a 350, and now a 400, (406), and the mounts were all the same, no clearance problems or changes, no balancer interference, no problem.

There is indeed differences in the engine position front to back depending on which frame mounts you use. My 383 (350 block) sets right against the firewall and I have to use a fan spacer 1 1/2 - 2" to put the fan in the shroud. My buddys 307 has the space back at the firewall and his fan is in the shroud without a spacer. Same water pumps ect.

The tranny bolts to the engine then to the cross member. Obvously if you move the engine forward or back the tranny has to move as well.

Ground Up catalog shows one part number for '67-'69 and a different one for '69 Z/28. D&R shows one for'67-'69 and a different one for '69 Z/28 & 350.

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...Dennis
"The '69 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/fine69_03.jpg), the '96 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/fine69_02.jpg) & the club (http://camaroslimited.com/)"

I agree with the other's I don't see how the location of the block changes? I had a 327 now replaced with a 350 block.
My question is what is the height from the base to the center of the bolt hole?
This is for a 69 camaro.

Thanks Dennis for agreeing with me. Some peopla must have closed minds. The transmision crossmember is slotted and your driveshaft has a slip joint to make up for these small differences in location. Explain to me why some people have to modify their firewalls to install an HEI and some don't? Why does one pair of headers hit the steering box on one car and clear on others? Why does a balancer hit a stock stabilizer but clear on others? Simple... different frame mounts.

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69 Camaro Z28 "clone" - 327 AT
"461" camel back heads,
edelbrock, hooker, ultradyne,
TRW etc.
700R4 TPI transmission

Its not that I have a closed mind...far from it (I dont know where that came from), but the slots in a tranny crossmember are quite small...with a bolt in there you have less than 1/2" or so fore/aft movement at the most. I would bet money this is just to take into account production tolerances. A lot of tranny crossmembers out there arent slotted at all. And any chevy frame (car or truck) I have ever worked with only had, at the most, 2 sets of holes...1 for the th350 and sometimes they have holes to move the x-memeber back for a th400. But not all cars have these. I would bet that the difference between the '67-'69 mounts and the '69 Z mounts is to raise the height of the motor somewhat for cleareance between the larger balancer and/or a sway bar. Now, a lot of engine mounts can be physically moved forward several inches as many frames have numerous holes to reposition the mounts. My old '69 chevy truck had 3 positions that the frame mounts could be mounted in (who knows why???). My '78 nova is the same way...I can move the frame mounts forward by about 1.5" on both sides but there is no way to make up that difference at the tranny. My guess is that this is some kind of universal setup from the factory for use with several makes or types of engines (I know that is the case with my novas). On my '78, small block chevy frame mounts can be fitted in 2 positions (dont ask me how I figured this out http://www.camaros.net/forum/rolleyes.gif ), and it will also accomodate olds and pontiac V-8's, and buick V-6's.
Ok, I am rambling now. I could be wrong here but this is my experience with these things.

[This message has been edited by travis (edited 04-07-2002).]

Travis,
Let me throw this out for you to think about.

You mentioned that your old P/U had several sets of holes in the frame member that could be used to move the engine around but didn't know why.

If I recall, back in days gone by, GM made GMC P/U's that if I am not mistaken had Pontiac V-8 engines and sold them in trucks that still used the corporate frame!

Plus, they sold 6-bangers in them that probably were not positioned in the V-8 location, but I don't know for sure. pdq67

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 68rs406:
exactly what i was thinking, travis. all sbc's motor mount bosses are in the same location, except for old ones w/o side bosses, of course. my '68 had a 327 originally, had a 350, and now a 400, (406), and the mounts were all the same, no clearance problems or changes, no balancer interference, no problem. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you 68rs406, That is what I am building for my 68 convertible. I would hope that it would be the same as your RS, as far as fit is concerned....

i just put a 91 305 in my 68 that had a 350 in it. when i ordered my mounts from summit thay had three differrent mounts for the 68 2 for the sbc and 1 for the bbc the different in the small blocks are how wide the perch mounts that fit over the frame mounts i think my were 2 5/8" for a 350 and the the trew bolt location. the perch wight on the other mount was smaller. so with the perch mount being a differnt size i bet the movement of the engine is there, and need to know what you got. my distribitor plugs did hit the wall and i had to rotat it one plug wire to get it in and a tpi distribitor is small. so measure how wide your frame mount is and the center of you threw bolt hole to the top of the mount that is what i had to do.

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free 68 in japan my first chevy http://www.geocities.com/claycitydude/68

PDQ67, that is exactly right. As far as I know, straight 6 frame mounts are the same as for a V-8, but they are located differently because the 6 banger mounts are farther forward from the tranny than a V-8's are. So, you can move the frame mounts forward, and still mount a V-8 in there, but you will have a gap between the tranny and the back of the block. I guess you could drill holes in the frame and move the tranny x-member forward to make up the difference, but then you're driveshaft would need to be lengthened a bit also.

Clay, That's what I'm in the process of doing (measuring). I have the following data for my old (broken) mounts: base to CENTER of bolt hole (height) 1-3/4". inner width: 2-3/8

Will the "Tall and Narrow" mount from energy suspension work? It is 2-3/8" wide but 2-3/16" high. pn=3-1117
69 firebird with a chevy 350 (had a chevy 327).

First of all I wamt to apologize if I offended anyone as it was not intended. Secondly, I measured my original TH350 crossmember and the transmission mount slots are 1" long with a 1/2"bolt that allows for 1/2" of adjustability. If you think about it, 1/2" is alot of clearance if you need it. I don't have the measurements of the two different engine stands... but they do exist. Look in your parts catalogs. As far as engine mounts are concerned yes Energy Suspension has two different mounts and the Camaro guys want the taller (thicker) ones. I have used the shorter and they required .625" spacers on the block to make them work.

------------------
69 Camaro Z28 "clone" - 327 AT
"461" camel back heads,
edelbrock, hooker, ultradyne,
TRW etc.
700R4 TPI transmission

Travis maybe you can assist me in understanding the difference between my '69 ragtop and my buddies. There are no adjustments in the the frame to engine support that I could find and my friends engine sits 1 1/2" - 1 3/4" closer to the radiator than mine. The common point is the frame mount and the motor mount. Our motor mounts look identical.

------------------
...Dennis
"The '69 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/fine69_03.jpg), the '96 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/fine69_02.jpg) & the club (http://camaroslimited.com/)"

the energy mounts is what i got and i got the short ones and they came with the shim if the shim makes the the same as the tall one that is cool. if the shim dosent make them the same i dont see how the tall one will work cuz, theres not much room between the tranny tunnel and the tranny. and their is two differnt size frame mounts if you do a searce i think you will find a post in here with the measurements or i found them on the net and i searce with www.google.com (http://www.google.com) good luck.

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free 68 in japan my first chevy http://www.geocities.com/claycitydude/68

Wow ! Thanks for the info, there are even more combo's then just 2. This was taken from the CRG site.


Q: [23-Dec-1998] Correction: Do all V8 1967-69 Camaros use the same engine mounts and engine mount (frame)
brackets?

A: No. Let's start with small-block Chevy (SBC) V8s. All '67-'68 SBC and '69 307ci and 327ci engines used the same
engine mount bracket (approximately 2-1/2 inches wide). The 1969 302ci and 350ci engines used a shorter (~3/8 inch)
and narrower (~1/4 inch) bracket. (The engine mount relationships for these brackets are best described in the table
below rather than in text.) Note that, unfortunately, 1967-68 engine mounts will assemble to the 1969 302/350 engine
mount bracket, but this is an incorrect assembly that results in driveline vibration and clutch chatter because the engine
sits too low and can move on the bracket.

Looking at big block Chevy (BBC) engines, in order to gain engine compartment clearance the engine was offset 1 inch
to the right (towards the passenger side) by means of asymmetric brackets. 1967-68 BBC engine mount brackets are
2-1/2 inches wide (but not the same as SBC) and use the same corresponding engine mount as 302ci and 350ci SBC.
For '69, BBC engine mount brackets were redesigned to use the new thicker, narrower, engine mount also used by
302ci and 350ci. BBC bracket pairs are easily spotted because the left bracket is noticeably taller than the right in order
to achieve the engine offset.

To summarize the engine mounting differences, from the Dec '71, GM of Canada Master Parts Catalogue 721, we see
the following relationships:

Distinct Engine Mounts
----------------------
a) 67-68 L6 (early 68)
b) 68-69 L6 (late 68)
c) 67-68 327 non-PS
67-68 327 PS right
69 327/307
d) 67-68 327 PS left
e) 67-68 302, 350, 396
f) 69 302, 350, 396


Distinct Engine Mount Brackets
------------------------------
a) 67-69 L6
b) 67-69 327
67-68 350, 302
c) 67-68 396
d) 69 350, 302
e) 69 396

------------------
69 Camaro Z28 "clone" - 327 AT
"461" camel back heads,
edelbrock, hooker, ultradyne,
TRW etc.
700R4 TPI transmission

this goes right to my theories on why some headers fit, and some don't, and why some HEI distributors clear, and some don't. seems to me that the 302/350 is closer to the firewall- that is why people with cars that have those mounts can't get an HEI to fit without a little hammer surgery, but most headers fit perfectly (the headers were engineered on a "hi-po" car). however, if your car originally had a 307 or 327, or you used the mounts from a car that did, the HEI will clear just fine, but most headers will hit a power steering box. it's all in the mounts, which are different and move the engine around a little bit, for whatever reason- weight balance, balancer clearance, or whatever. the point is that there are differences, but on the cars, not the blocks. all small blocks from 58 on up to -and including- the 97 LT1 (and all big blocks) use the same side engine mounts in the exact same location.

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1971 Nova(looks like 69 camaro from underneath!)
355sb, vortec heads, HOT cam,T-10 tranny, 3.70 gears 16X8" IROC wheels. 12" Corvette brakes on the way.
see pics here http://community.webshots.com/user/novaderrik

Dennis, where are you measuring the difference from? From the heads to the radiator, or from the water pump pulley, or what? I assume you are both using the same style water pump (long or short) and same radiators? 1 1/2" is a lot of difference. Maybe I'm wrong, but I bet there are no provisions on the frame to move the tranny x-member 1.5" forward on either of your cars. If I remember correctly, the difference between the th350 and th400 crossmember mounting points is about 4" or so. Am I making any sense here? The distance between the engines mounting points and the tranny mounting points is the same for all sbc/th350 setups...that is a given, so if the engine is moved forward then the difference HAS to be made up somewhere.

Same pump & pulleys. If I mount my fan without the spacer it doesn't stick into the shroud at all. The other car is 100% in the shroud without a spacer. Even if the fans were removed it's obvious. You can see the difference at the fire wall as well. My car started life (06C) with a TH350 and the other a powerglide. My car has since been retrofitted with a TH400 and currently a 700R4 using a TH400 x-member.

------------------
...Dennis
"The '69 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/fine69_03.jpg), the '96 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/fine69_02.jpg) & the club (http://camaroslimited.com/)"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 68Hugger:
Thank you 68rs406, That is what I am building for my 68 convertible. I would hope that it would be the same as your RS, as far as fit is concerned.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
cool, glad i could be of help. in addition to what i said, i used the energy suspension # 3-1114B(b for black) motor mounts, i believe they are the shorter type, but i know that is the part #. as long as you're car had a 327 originally, you should be good to go. that was my combo and the mounts work perfect. in addition to that, if you have the orig. power steering bracketry,this mount works w/ it, whereas i dont believe the other "off the shelf" parts store ones do, or so i've heard. also, claycityman, the plates that came w/ the mounts are not spacers, but "preload" plates, and you must use them according to energy suspension, check the instructions. mounting issues seem to be the 302, 350 orig. equipped cars. in these cases, you need the taller mount, i believe. i'm not sure about the others, but i have directly dealt w/ a 327 car. good luck, and enjoy the 406, i know i do! http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

68rs406 i did use the pad and my car was a 350 i think. energy suspension told me it was for unlocking the interlocking part of the mount, my tranny mount had the same type of pad. 68rs406 you talked about your power steering mount could you go here http://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum9/HTML/006666.html and help me out. im having trouble with my power steering mount.

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free 68 in japan my first chevy http://www.geocities.com/claycitydude/68

[This message has been edited by claycityman (edited 04-09-2002).]

My car is an original 307/3-speed manual and as far as I know, the engine stands are original. I used Vette Brakes safety lock engine mounts, I think for a 350.

My fan fits into the shroud perfectly without a spacer. However, the fan is not centered in the shroud and is offset high and to the driver's side.

I don't have room for an HEI.

My Hooker headers fit fine without interference - and I have a quick ratio steering box.

My 8-inch balancer does not interfere with my Hotchkis swaybar.