I am working on my 69 RS with the 700r-4 and finally getting to do a little tuning. When I pull out and get on it it pulls hard to 6000 and shifts to 2nd, pulls hard to 6000 and shifts to 3rd, pulls hard until 4500 and then it's like it goes into neutral. The tranny was a hi-po rebuilt when I bought it(specs--late production 700r (30 spline), .460 boost pump, Vette servo, top of the line band and clutch packs, 2800/3000 stall 10" T/C). I have tried to move the tv cable to see if that was the problem and all that did was move the rpm up a couple of hundred when it hits neutral.

I have talked to a GM tranny guy and after about 20 minutes of back&forth conversation he says that the valve body is the culprit. He checked the tranny for me when I first got it and said that it was set-up strictly for racing and he softened it up a little for street use. He also said that there was some stuff done to the valve body that he hadn't seen before(stuff missing,lighter springs,etc). He says to bring him another "virgin" valvebody and he will add a shift kit and set it up the way he would have initally.

Anybody got any ideas? I am using B&M tranny fluid, have a deep alum. pan, and set the tv cable with a gauge from 700r-4.com. It also does the same thing under normal steady driving at the same rpm. I haven't drove it in OD since discovering the problem, didn't want to skrew anything up. I have checked the fluid, no smell and still so clear that you can bearly see it on the stick(B&M is blue color)

Thanks



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69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
Check out my site and the For Sale Page http://rodsrides.freeservers.com

The problem could be the 2/4 band servo. The band applies in second, and fourth. The piston in the servo cover applies fourth, and the 2 peace piston deeper in applies the band in second. The teflon ring might be missing, or cut.

These valve bodies have several 1/8 pipe plugs in the valve body where the pressure switches screw in. There is one of these plugs in the rear side that is directly connected to 4TH gear oil pressure.

Does your TCI converter have a lock-up clutch? If not there are some mods to do to the L/U valve in the front pump, but this is to get lube to the rear plannet in 4th. If no L/U converter, be sure there is a L/U snout/valve in it. (the one that goes in the front pump with 2 bolts)

The only change from 3rd to 4th is the band is applied to make 4th. The 3-4 clutches apply in 3rd, and stay applied in 4th. The early shift to 4th might be due to a pressure loss like a plug left out.

Larry
www.lnjstreetrods.com (http://www.lnjstreetrods.com)

Thanks for the reply Injstreetrods. I was told that the convertor was a lock-up but when I wired it up I can't tell a difference. Could this be do to the pump?

It isn't shifting into 4th, I have been driving it around in 3rd when it does the neutral thing.

Thanks

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69 RS Camaro (383,700r-4,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
Check out my site and the For Sale Page http://rodsrides.freeservers.com

You say when it does the netural thing you drive in 3rd, does it do this all time or just now and then? (netural) Since you had to wire up lock up and it's not working, I still wonder about the plug in the back of valve body. If I wire one up to do lock up I use a pressure switch off of the 4th gear oil press. If this is left out it will affect 4th and lock up both. I am at home and don't have a book to see where the external 4th gear oil press tap is so you can check it. I might get time to respond from the shop later today, I'll try. If there is any thing else that you think might help me look for something to try post it.

Larry
www.lnjstreetrods.com (http://www.lnjstreetrods.com)

It does it everytime in 3rd gear when it hits 4500 rpm. When driving normal or hard. If I let off and it gets below X rpm it pulls fine until it hits that rpm again. Hope this helps.

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69 RS Camaro (383,700r-4,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
Check out my site and the For Sale Page http://rodsrides.freeservers.com

I presume netral is kicking in when it should be upshifting to overdrive. You stated that the problem only happened in 3rd gear, but did you specify if that was D or OD? If only in OD, then let's proceed. If it's happening in D, then we've got a different problem.

As larry pointed out, the only mechanical difference between 3rd and 4th is a band application. In otherwords, you would expect that if something were wrong with the band application or 4th gear hydraulic switching, it just wouldn't ever shift into OD. Whatever is happening is causing a major leak and a drop in oil pressure when attemping to upshift to OD. A pressure guage test would be a good idea. If it should happen to be a valve body issue, then it would be something like an incorrect valve which can move past the normal stopping point causing a fluid loss, or the wrong valve in the wrong hole (I suspect not). It would also be worthwhile to inspect the 2-4 servo, by removing the cover on the passenger side of the case near the bellhousing. It might be possible to assemble it incorrectly (installing a piston upside down, spring in the wrong location, etc.), but I've never tried. The 3-4 accumulator could have a missing or damaged seal as well (part of the 1-2 accumulator assembly under the pan).

The missing 4th clutch switch cap is a possibility, or a blown apart switch. BTW, that switch will be located on the rear of the valve body nearest the 1-2 accumulator (rear, passenger's side). For refernce, the rear middle port is the 4-3 downshift switch port which is probably capped, or should be. Finally, the left rear port is for 3rd clutch and is also probably capped.

The only external pressure tap I see is for main line pressure and its just above the shifter shaft on the left side.

-dnult

[This message has been edited by dnult (edited 07-13-2002).]

When this happens, I have it in D. I haven't tried it in OD.

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69 RS Camaro (383,700r-4,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
Check out my site and the For Sale Page http://rodsrides.freeservers.com

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wildkatz:
When this happens, I have it in D. I haven't tried it in OD.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a different matter. Perhaps Larry was on to this because his theory of a missing 4th clutch switch still applies. The govenor could be at fault, or a problem with the 3-4 shift valve or 3-4 relay valve. Even though you are in D3, the 3-4 valve still actuates under govenor pressure. Overdrive is disabled by the lack of D4 servo pressure at the 3-4 relay valve. In otherwords, once you reach a certain speed / load, the transmission will attempt to shift into 4th, although the 4th gear circuit is disabled by the manual valve. Go with Larry's advice on the clutch switch first.

-dnult

how do you drive "normal" in 3rd gear at 4500 rpm? unless you have some serious gears and short tires, you are really flying down the road...with my 26" tires and 3.70 gears, 4500 is something like 95 mph or something (off the top of my head) in 4th gear on my 4 speed.

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1971 Nova(looks like 69 camaro from underneath!)
355sb, vortec heads, HOT cam,T-10 tranny, 3.70 gears 16X8" IROC wheels. 12" Corvette brakes on the way.
see pics here http://community.webshots.com/user/novaderrik

Nova I've not been paying attention to the speed, just the rpms. I have 4.11 rear. I was running pretty fast, but it pulls well over 6K and I am just getting it broke in.

I will relay this info to the tranny guy and see if we are on the same page. Guys I really appreciate the help, I'll let you know how it goes.

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69 RS Camaro (383,700r-4,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
Check out my site and the For Sale Page http://rodsrides.freeservers.com