guys,

i need a good clutch to go behind my new motor (467 with 525+ hp, 550+ ft lbs). im probably going to go with a tremec tko 5 spd.

my car is going to be a cruiser but im only 23, so ill get on it... a lot. and ill take it to the drags evrey once and a while.

a lot of you guys swear by centerforce. but i hear a lot of guys say that they suck for a lot of power.

what kind of clutch do you guys think i need? i want something good, something that i wont be changing every weekend. but something that is streetable.

thanks guys

Man Thats the same reason I went with an auto!! Good luck

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67 prostreet BB Camaro
71 BB SS Chevelle (clone)
2002 35th anniv SS Z28 conv.

i gotta have a stick!

any thoughts guys?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jks67SS396:

a lot of you guys swear by centerforce. but i hear a lot of guys say that they suck for a lot of power.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who is saying that? The Centerforce Dual Friction clutch setup is the strongest clutch out there for a street car, and has a relatively light pedal.




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68 Coupe, 350 4-speed
Jim's Camaro Corner (http://www.personal.psu.edu/jxu109/)

jks,
Hey bro I've got a centerforce behind my 509 and in front of my autogear M-22. That centerforce is about as good as it gets IMO. Go with it you wont be sorry. Let us know what you go with.


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New skool is cool but a 509 and 4 speed still rulz :)

do you guys beat the hell out of it? thats what im gonna do.

the guys at the local speed shop said that they put a centerforce behind a 600 hp car and the thing was gone a quarter mile later.

now these guys could have installed it wrong, but i think they are decent guys

i just want to make it home from the track (2 hours) when i go (dont we all?)

thanks guys

Better have a backup plan on getting home from the track - the clutch is not the only thing that can go. On one run I threw the springs out of the clutch disc hub and broke the posi unit, scattering pieces into the ring and pinion http://www.camaros.net/forum/eek.gif

I'm starting with a stock clutch first, but am not going ta sidestep it though. But rather drive her outa the hole, then nail it and feather the throttle to hold spin to a min for max git! pdq67

PS., why punish it b/c all you are going ta do is wear your clutch and tires as well as possibly break stuff!!!

i have a centerforce clutch/pressure plate setup in my '67 behind my 427... works fine
i bought some long cheep bolts at Home Depot,the correct thread,{and cut the hex heads off} http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif ;
to use as guide pins where the lower tranny bolts would go;it helped alot when reassembling the unit


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'67 RS 427,4 Speed
Disc brakes,console, fold down rear seat,heater,
Radio Delete, Cowl hood,front,rear spoilers,
Black/black; white bumblebee stripe
Click to see my Camaro (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/8a118c5b/bc/camaro+pics/67rscamaro427email.jpg?bcw8KV9A97U9f2_Q)

I have the Centerforce Dual Friction behind my 550hp BBC, using the TREMEC TKO 5sp. I've been quite happy with the clutch.

So, what clutch are these guys recommneding if they don't like the Centerforce?

Was the clutch adjusted properly? If not, I could see how you could easily waste it.

Also, avoid the 3 prong style clutches. They'll break your leg, bend your fork, and I've even had people tell me the z-bar mount on the frame and the frame will flex. I know for a fact they can bend the fork....
They are incredibly stiff.

good luck,

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Team Chevelle Gold Member, #178: '69 Malibu Pro-Street
Tremec Distributor at http://www.5speedtransmissions.com
Ask about the Team Camaro Discount
mjpell@prostreetcar.com or mjpell@5speedtransmissions.com

these guys and the others here that have contacted me like mcleod (sp?)

but with all the praise for the centerforce from all different angles, i think thats what ill go with.

right now, im fighting with brake lines. then the new motor goes in... then the tranny. still waiting on fortes trick shifter...

McLeod was the only clutch that lived in my 55. I wouldn't drive a stick BB car to the track you are going to need a trailer to get home more times than you want to think about.

oger,

what kinda motor did you have in front of the mcleod?? what kinda power/torque? did you try a centerforce?

i have friends in sacramento.. im sure theyd let me sleep on the couch a few nights http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

I went with a complete RAM set-up for my BB502 630.8hp and 628 ft lbs. as dynoed. I was also concerned about wasting clutches on a regular basis so I called RAM and told them what I had. They did the rest. It seems everyone has an opinion based on good or bad experience. If all things are equal, meaning that the manufacturer you chose gave you the correct clutch and pressure plate assembly for your application. Then the only potential problems would lie in the installation (set-up and cleaness of the mating surfaces when put together) and how hard you drive it on a daily basis. Let's face it, we are gonna burn up a few clutches running the cars hard. I wish I could tell you how the car runs but it will be another month as I re-engineer around all of those aftermarket parts I used like my new subframe http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif. Nothing like getting creative......

Good luck,

Larry

larry, id love to see your car... let me know if youre up for it...

To the boys mentioned earlier that installed a Centerforce then took the car to the track and had a failure, obviously didn't read the directions which clearly state to drive 500 city miles before ripping it.

It needs break-in.

The problem with the 55 was it weighed too much 3880 without me. It had a decient 433 that ran 10.90s at 128 mph with 514 gears and no tire spin. The McLeod I ended up using was not exactly a street clutch 4200lb long style but it was the only one to work. I also used their 40lb flywheel and normal launches were at over 6000rpm. Yes it was real hard on parts.

I think it is RAM that has an 8-inch dual disc set-up for road racing. That might hold the beastie down.

I second the RAM setup....
I called them and they set me up with a 6000 series disc and a long style pressure plate.
He said it'd be kinda harsh on the street..but thats what 33" of tires are for!(soak up some grip of the clutch)

OK, will a double disc clutch shift quick enough for you b/c I remember reasding about GM's double clutch for BB's being so good that you could put it in your will for the grandkids to abuse.

But that it had so much mass that it didn't quite shift fast enough for dragging use. pdq67

ok, so im new to clutches... is the centerforce not a dual disk? whats the advantage of a dual disk over a single(?) disk clutch?

thanks guys

Centerforce calls their clutch "dual friction" because the single disc has a different friction material on each side.

I don't see how a dual disc setup would necessarily be heavier because the discs and 0pressure plate don't have to be as large in diameter as a signle disc set-up. The RAM setup is only 8 inches in diameter vs 11 inches for stock. That's got to save some weight.

I would think the mcleod would be best, if you have the money for one of there clutches and pressure plates.
I looked at a dual disk street clutch with pressure plate and steel SFI flywheel and a few small parts and it was over $800!
I cant afford that, so personally i'm going with Hay's or Ram unless someone talks me out of it.

I've had no complaints on my last centerforce dual friction... disk looks new at 8000 miles when I put a new one in this year when the motor was freshened, just because I was exceding the hp rating on it.

If your running a small block and want to save rotating weight (don't we all?) go with the GM nodular iron 10.4" flywheel-- it's 15lbs lighter than an 11" steel flywheel and it's pretty cheap ($250 if I remember right).. then call centerforce for your application... I had used the 'catalog' 10.4" 26 spline clutch which is actually ment for an 80's IROC camaro... but after talking to centerforce they only recommend it to 425hp max... (which explains why I felt it slip after a few back-to-back runs) so they gave me another p/n good for 550-600hp. I've got about 500 miles on the new clutch... seems real good... on a 350 making an honest 542hp on pump gas. (dyno lines up with the Moroso speed calculator). Anyway... go dual friction... and myself unless your making 600ft-lb of torque, I'd use the lighter flywheel-- think of how much $ we spend to get a lightweight crank, then go and hang a 30lb flywheel off of it vs a 15lb flywheel. The only downside of the smaller flywheel is you do need to know how to drive, i.e. the car can stall easier... but if the foot's on the floor, you'll love how it winds up. -Dan

im running a big block.

i went to the RAM site and looked at their "clutch university" tutorial. seemed like good reading

it says that lighter flywheels (used on oval tracks) dont work the best for a standing start.. and thats why they dont recommend them on the street (low inertia).

a steel flywheel seems like a good choice from the reading. but do i need a billet flywheel?

i do seem to like the idea of a multi-disc setup though. seems like it would last longer and put up with more crap.

that tends to push me towards the mcleod or Ram if centerforce doesnt make a dual disc setup(?)

if the mcleod setup is 800 bucks, any idea how much the Ram or centerforce would be?

and it says the Ram 6000 is a hard racing clutch. is that over kill on a street car? im only running 26" tires (not 33s)

keep the information coming guys... its all a big help and i appriciate it!!

I just bought the Centerforce II clutch, disc, throwout bearing and billet steel 30# flywheel which is SFI approved. It cost me $710. If you mail order, you can get it for about $100 less. Interesting about the different HP ratings on the disc. I'll have to check before I install it. Do you have part numbers?

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Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv,355,M20,4.10's and I don't worry about stone chips ( yet ).

jks-- about the time I hit send, I remembered you mention bbc... as I was typing I was thinking of the thread added on about sbc...

Regarding p/n's - when I called Centerforce about my first 10.4" dual friction clutch -- they confirmed the catalog p/n DF161056 for the 26 spline clutch is not rated for over 425hp... they gave me the p/n of a special they do for high horsepower applications on the 10.4" that is much stronger... DF161739 - I was thinking I was going to have to go up to an 11" clutch and flywheel (DF148552), but happily do not... the 10.4" nodular flywheel is 1/2 the weight of the 11".

A heavy flywheel can help the launch on a drag car, no doubt, but you need the traction to go with it... since I'm still burning the tires going into 3rd, I don't think the light weight hurt much. Given optimum traction, I'm sure the heavy flywheel would 60ft better, but it could hurt the mph-- like everything else, trade-offs, where you want the power... I was after something to run thru the gears at 7000+ all day without worrying about, and weight is always an enemy. But, like for your bbc, I'd agree a good quality 11" should be fine.

One side note... when I first built the car, ram had just come out with the carbon-fiber clutches, so I used one, toasted it in 600 miles. I called Ram, they were very helpful too, but noted that since their release they down-rated those clutches to 400hp, no slicks, etc... gave me a full credit toward another clutch including a new throwout bearing... that one lasted fine - I ran it a couple years on my 4 speed before changing to the 6 speed and the centerforce. -Dan

I have been using the centerforce for a while with no problems. It seems to me that the Tremec is not suited to handle enough horses to scatter a Centerforce or maybe I have heard wrong torque numbers about the Tremec's

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SCOTT
69 RS-SS 396 4-SPEED

the TKO is supposed to handle 525 ft lbs as per the website im going to buy from. of course this is slightly underrated for a margin of safety, so i think ill be fine.

the TKO is supposed to be stronger than the Richmond.

I talked to the centerforce guy today and all he could tell me was that they have been around longer than mcleod. and they know what theyre doing.

im leaning more and more towards mcleod. the street twin setup is supposed to handle up to 1100 hp drag racing, so id hope that it would hold mine. the dual disc makes a lot of sense.

what would you guys do for a flywheel? billet steel or forged aluminum?

the aluminum is about half the weight and to my understanding the guy says that this is much better for the drags and just takes "getting used to" on the street... not really hurting the performance once you "learn to drive it" (like the above post said)

any more ideas on this?

thanks guys, you are really helping a lot!!!

I bought my first McLeod clutch in 1972 I think they have been around long enough to have figured it out. If you have any traction at all an alum. flywheel will not work.

so if i hook up, the aluminum flywheel will die?

when i go to the strip, im going to have subframe connectors, caltracs bars and springs and street slicks...hoping for decent traction.

so oger, youd go billet steel?

guys,

i was reading another post on this site about sluminum flywheels.

im using a tremec tko which has a 3.27 first gear... .68 OD 5th

my rear end will be something like 3.55.

that means that multiplication off the line is 11.6... pretty decent, if not kinda high.

seems like first gear would go by pretty quick with 26" tires.

so would the aluminum flywheel suck with that much multiplication?

like i said, this is a street cruiser that ill take to the drags every once in a while. im running cal tracs bars and leaf springs. and when i go to the drags, street slicks.

aluminum or billet steel??

thanks guys

the 30 lb flywheel is still lighter then hanging a torque converter on it, so i dont see the big deal about it.
I'll use one.

The alum flywheel will not die the car will not have enough stored energy to launch. It will bog big time.

I just spoke with Centerforce. I was curious after reading about horsepower limitations/ratings for the disc. I had ordered their 30# steel flywheel and 10.5" Centerforce II disc/pressure plate with 26 spline. I know my car came with 10 splines but my tranny went and I'm having an Autogear M22 built with a 26 spline input shaft! Anyway, they said the CF II was borderline at 400 - 425 HP and recommended the dual friction. My speed shop is handling the exchange.

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Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv,355,M20,4.10's and I don't worry about stone chips ( yet ).

The only thing I can add about aluminum flyheel is what they told us when doing a clutch and flywheel change to a 92 vette... they said the aluminum flywheel was fine for racing, but some people have trouble with the steel insert that the clutch rides on warping from the heat, which makes sense since aluminum expands a lot more with heat than steel.

Also, yes, deep gears help make for easy launches even with a light flywheel-- like I say, I have no probs with a small block and a 15# flywheel-- but I'm running 4.10's and a 3.01 first gear. -Dan