I have a 69. 350 Nothing special. Building it up for a daily driver (should be a lot more fun than my s-10). I would like to put in a late model 5- speed manual with overdrive (it's a long trip to work). Any suggestions/ recomendations on a trans that would bolt up to my bell housing and crossmember. The floor is not an issue.

The Tremec 5 speed is the way to go. make sure you use a safety bellhousing and while you are at it get the bigger flywheel (168 tooth) and a heavy duty cluch. For the crossmember use a th400, cut the mount off and re-weld it to the other side. The drive shaft will need to be shortened, but it makes more sense to get a stronger one made up with at least a 1330 series or 1350 u-joint. Fortes Parts connection has the stuff to do the swap but make sure you get their tubular th400 crossmember - if they don't have one in stock make your own as I described above. DO NOT use their steel cut out crossmember-it will flex.

Torker - just out of curiosity - how can you tell if the tranny crossmember is flexing? What happens when it does? And can you elaborate on the construction method of the crossmember you're recommending against?

Thanks

------------------
Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
www.geocities.com/sdenning1 (http://www.geocities.com/sdenning1)

That's a good story Rocky, but I'll let Torquer tell it.

------------------
Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

Rocky,

The Forte's xmember is made out of flat steel stock. It is formed with a similar shape to a stock xmember. It is VERY heavy and at first glance seems like it should work.

See some of CarlC's prior posts on his experiences with his Tremec installation. He was able to flex the Forte's xmember after installation by grabbing onto the end of the tranny and pushing it up and down. He didn't like the amount of flex he could generate so he pulled the Forte xmember and installed a modified TH-400 as Torker described.

Also, there apparently is a problem with getting the mounting holes in the Forte's xmember to line up with the holes in the frame and tranny mount.

I haven't installed my Tremec yet, but did purchase the Forte designed xmember. Based on Carl's advice, I have already purchased a TH-400 xmember and will not be using the Forte part.

Danny,
I put in the Tremec. I used my existing (small) flywheel, bellhousing, and a stock replacement (for 82-93 Camaro?) 26 spline, 10.5" clutch kit. It runs great. I also went with the Tremec 3550 vice the TKO. The 3550 is rated for 450lb-ft and the TKO for 500lb-ft, I think. It's really fun to drive. The internal rail shifter's really smooth. Some folks also like the Richmond (formerly Doug Nash) 5-speed, too. Fifth gear is not overdrive, though. It has a rod-type shifter, ideal gear spacing, and is based on a Doug Nash tranny designed for heavy-duty/racing use.
On the Forte's GM Tremec, I tried the plate steel Forte's X-member; not only did it flex, but the holes didn't line up. Mike Forte is going to fix it, but I think the TH400 is the way to go. Buy the tranny & yoke, mechanical speedo hookup, and backup light switch from Fortes. Since you don't mind cutting the floor pan a little, get the regular shifter. For the TH-400 Xmember, cut the mount off the back and reweld it in the same location on the front. I don't weld, so I got it done for $20. I had a driveshaft shop shorten and balance my driveshaft ($60 or $80). Do a search, there's a lot of good info on this swap and different opinions. Remember, my car is a convertible for cruising with occasional hot rodding, so I don't always spring for the race/heavy-duty gear. (OK, part of it is that I have four kids and can't afford all of it!) Figure out what you want to do and build towards it. Steve Laabs

The Tremec 3550 is rated at 425 ft lbs, Richmond at 450, and the Tremec TKO at 525. Per the article on O.D. trannies in Hot Rod or Super Chevy a few months ago.

Hey, I am sure this is geat advise. Even modifying a crossmember is no big deal but...I am not familiar with the "Tremec", if costs anything like a Doug Nash it is out of my price range. Where can I get a price? I was hoping for some info on swapping in something used. Would an '82-83 5 speed work?

Thanks for the info on the crossmember!

Dan - sorry to sidetrack your post. I don't know about the kind of swap you're suggesting but I'm sure some others here do. Good luck!

------------------
Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
www.geocities.com/sdenning1 (http://www.geocities.com/sdenning1)

The 5 speeds in the 3rd gen F-bodies are weak. GM wouldnt even give you a 350 with a manual trans because of this, only the 305. If your just going to cruise, and never intend to get on it, then it might be worth the save in money, but you might bust it the first time you drive it hard. Although it may hold up, i wouldnt take the chance, it could get expensive.

------------------
67 Camaro
383-SRP Pistons, Manley Rods, Cola Crank, Edelbrock Performer RPM package, Speed Demon 750 dp, MSD Ignition, TH350 Trans stock gears and convertor

Dan,

The Tremec 3550 is substantially cheaper than the Richmond (formerly Doug Nash). I think the Chevy version goes for about 1,500??? Steve can you help me here??

The Richmond is $1800. plus you need a shifter for about $200 more.
You need a TH 400size yoke, and a crossmember like the turbo 400, for either trans. You can cut off the TH400 mount tab and weld it in the center of the tube to bolt to.

The Richmond is the same length as a Muncie, so you don't have to shorten the driveshaft. If you have a console you will have to make a new shifter spacer plate to move it forward, and offset the stick to make it work.
I've done two, one on a 67, one on a 69, both with console. It shifts like a Muncie.

If you have low gears get a Tremec, It's got an overdrive fifth gear. If you have 3.08 or higher gears, get a Richmond, It's 1 to 1 in fifth, 3.27 in first on both trannys, so the tremec has a wider spread between each gear, more rpm drop on shifts.

David

------------------
Check my web page for suspension info:
David's Homepage (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

Sorry so long to reply, but I couldn't find my pricelist. Found the info in an old post, but these prices were what Fortes quoted me last April:
Tremec 3550: $1675 (TKO was $1,975 at this time)
Conversion yoke $60
Speedo cable & driven gear: $can't remember, maybe $30
Use existing driveshaft, pay to shorten and balance- $60
Shipping $100
Clutch kit from Pep Boys (no nasty comments, please)-$120
TH400 Xmember-$50
Cut and weld-$20
Steve

Seems like everyone has lots of $$$$. Anyone have ab idea for maybe $1000????

Sorry we got so carried away with your money, Dan. I don't know if it would fit in a first gen's tranny tunnel, but I had a five speed manual w/ OD in a '90 C1500 I had. You might look at one of those and see if it would fit. I always figure if Chevy stuck it on a full-size pickup, it must be fairly tough. Just an idea. Steve Laabs

Not sure if you had your heart set on a manual tranny, but have you thought about a 200-R4 automatic?

There have been several recent articles in car mags about these trannies lately. Apparently they are about as strong as a TH-350 (were actually based on the 350 design) and are a lot easier and cheaper to get at a junk yard than the 700-R4. Many of the Buick GN guys run modified 200-R4s behind their 700 HP turbo motors.

------------------
Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 4/5/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

[This message has been edited by gheatly (edited 07-10-2000).]

If you want to save some money, you could look for a 93 T56 from a Camaro. If I remember correctly it's a direct bolt-in for a 82-92 5-speed Camaro. I think it's rated at 350lbs.

Or you could get a 94-97 T-56 they're rated at 450lbs and come with a .50 od for 6th. only you'd need a lot of 4thgen parts to use it.

Nice part about using a T-56 is they can be found for around $700 with only 30-40k on them.

Anyway I just wanted to voice my opinion on this subject. Not like I'm a God at 1stgens or anything.

------------------
http://350.streetracing.org 89 Camaro RS - L03/T5

That's a good idea, but I think I looked at the T56 option when I was looking to swap in a late-model tranny and it seemed prohibititely difficult and expensive. I think mostly it was that you had to convert to a hydraulic clutch linkage setup, jury-rig the reverse lockout electrical wiring and backup lights, and do quite a bit more work to make the tranny fit in the tunnel and fabricate a Xmember that would hold it quite a bit further back. There is an aftermarket version that makes the swap easier, but then you're talking about a lot of money again. I'll try to look at the old writeups in CarCraft & CHP and see what I can find. Steve Laabs

Steve's right. Either a T56 or Tremec will run a minimum of $3,000 on most standard swaps. Exceptions are there, but for the masses get ready to lay down the greenbacks.

------------------
Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

Wanted to relay my recent experience and see if anyone has any suggestions. Restoring 67 Camaro and wanted to convert from stock powerglide to a manual. After reading Super Chevy article on Tremic install in 68 Camaro I opted for the Tremec 3550. Retention of the console was a key factor.

Finally installed engine and transmission last weekend and ran into problems with the console. I'm confirming with Forte's that I got the forward shifter that moves it from 19.5" back from the bellhousing to 18.3". I'm pretty sure I do. With the console in the stock position, the shifter stub was very close to the aft edge of the console opening (no shifter plate)and is on centerline. Things get worse when I install the shifter plate. I can move the console back an inch or so to solve the fore/aft interference but the shifter still needs to be farther towards driver seat. Can't be done by spacers because shifter stub extends 1/4-1/2 inch above the shifter plate opening.

Has anyone actually installed a Tremec in a 67-69 Camaro and used the stock console and shifter plate? I'm thinking I'm going to have to make a custom shifter plate but then I'll lose the stock look which I really wanted to retain.

I run the Forte's adjustable shifter, which is really just a different mounting plate that moves the shifer forward. It fits perfectly into a '68 console with a 4-speed plate. I placed the shifter handle on the LH side of the shifter and it came out in the middle of the plate.

------------------
Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

Carl....Thanks. I'm glad to hear the Tremec worked well with a 68 console. I was just looking at Classic Industries and Rick's 1st Gen catalogs and trying to compare the size of the openings in the 68/69 shifter plates with the 67. Since you had no problem, I would suspect the 68/69 shifter plate opening is wider and extends further towards the passenger seat. Also, looking at the picture of the interior on your web site, the one with the auto, it looks to me that the 68 console is higher than the 67's which also helps. Could you put a picture of your console with the Tremec on your website??

My solution may be to just put a 68 console in my 67.

By the way. My 67 is red with a red interior also. You can never have enought red on a car in my opinion.

Like a famous rock star once said, "Green ain't mean compared to red." http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif

I'll try to borrow my neighbors digital camara and post ASAP.

Carl

------------------
Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

I started a web page on my car and posted some pictures of how the Tremec shifter fits, or should I say doesn't fit, with my 67 console and shift plate. The web site is www.clubmac-camaro.bigstep.com (http://www.clubmac-camaro.bigstep.com) Not much there right now but use the Tremec/Console link on the left side of the page. There are three pictures; one showing the shifter coming thrugh the tunnel, one with the console installed minus the shifter plate, and one with the shifter plate. I've e-mailed these same pictures to Mike at Forte's.

Carl....would appreciate you taking a look. Looking forward to your picture of the 68 console.

Mark M.

I am also in the process of installing a tremec TKO from Forte with the forward located shifter. My car is a 69 Camaro SS/RS with a 396. I am disapointed with the cross member from Forte and going to purchase a Turbo 400 mount and modify it. Right now the motor and transmission are sitting in the subframe and it looks like Tremec it favors the the passenger side of the car about 1". When you(carlc& mem) modified your cross members did you notice this? I just trying to fit everything ahead of time so I have less headaches later. I don't have a website yet but if you are interested in any pictures you can e-mail me. I look forward to seeing more pictures on your wesites.(carl & Mem)Thanks

memcgraw and cmrib,

It does look too far back for your console. I just took a look at mine and in 2-3-R the shifter handle almost touches the shifter plate. There is excess room in front but the Tremec design may not allow the shifter to be placed any farther foward when mounted in the aft location.

Now this is pretty rough, but measuring from the top of the ashtray lip (closed) to the top-center of the shifter in neutral is 10 1/4".

As far as the side-to-side position, I centered the output shaft in the tunnel/between frame rails and welded the mounting tab to fit. I had to pull the trans over to get it in the center. If you are using the Forte's plate steel mount the holes may not be in the center and will screw things up. The top of my shifter is actually left of center and fits well in that direction.

The centerline of the trans is the same as the motor. The motor mounts could be slightly off or try loosening the motor mount bolts before installing the trans mount bolts.

------------------
Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

Talked to Mike at Forte's yesterday and he is going to swap out my X-member. He is having a new batch made that he says will fit better. On the original one, only the aft bolts lines up with the frame and I had to pry the tranny towards the passenger side by about 1/8" to get the holes to line up. I'll let everyone know how the new one fits.

Don't let him sell you the plate steel version. Unless he has figured out a way to make it stronger it is not what should be used. It is much too weak. Take yours and put it on two 4x4's and step on the middle (like the trans weight) and see how much it deflects. It is no stonger in bending than a 1" x 0.050" round tube. Would you trust that? Not me!

------------------
Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

Carl,

I'll do the "ash tray" measure on mine tonight and see how it compares.

What did you use for a shifter boot?

Mark M.

cmrib, Yes, I believe the tranny is about 1" to the passenger side of center when mounted. Note that it should be straight front to rear, not cocked diagonally. Check the old (original) tranny Xmember; the center of the mounting tab should be offset from center by about the same amount. Steve Laabs

I cut the tunnel hole 1/2" larger than the shifter then took some high-density closed cell foam and wedged it in. This takes care of 95% of the leaks. I also used a cheap Kragen (Specter?) boot, the smallest/shortest boot I could find. You may have to force/grind it a bit to get it over the shifter adjustment screws. Since you cannot see the boot under the console slider there is no need to spend big bucks on the repro items that would not fit anyway.

------------------
Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

Thanks laabs. So when I modify the TH400 crossmember I should match that offset or is that going to throw off the alignment of the drive shaft.What did you do or what did CarlC do?

Just went out and checked the orignal crossmember for the 4-speed and it is offset aproximately 1". It was Forte's crossmember which does not line up correctly and was throwing me off. Because of the design of the 4-speed crossmember it will not clear the back of the Tremec 5-speed. TH 400 crossmember on it's way from Classic.($58.00 + shipping) Thank's everyone!

[This message has been edited by cmrib (edited 07-18-2000).]

Carl...measured from the top lip of the ash tray to the center of the shifter stub, direct measurement with the tape measure touching both components, and mine also was about 10-1/4" (probably more like 10-1/2"). This, along with some pictures of the forward adjustable shifter from Forte's, has me convinced that I have the forward shifter.

Looking forward to seeing the picture of your console installation. I do think mine is a little father to the right, maybe 1/4" than it should be due to the poor fit of the X-member. Forte's is sending me a replacement so I'll see how the new one fits. I'll do the strength test you recommended when it arrives and then decide if I really want to use it.

Mark M.

Mcgraw,
I just completed my Tremec installation a few days ago. I did not buy the custom shifter. I went with the stock shifter. I also have a console. I had to move my console back a couple inches and to the passengers side about a half inch or so. The gap between the drivers seat and console is now obviously a little wider than the other side, but it is hardly noticeable. I am surprised to see that you had to cut your floor that much, considering you are using the custom shifter. The hole that you cut is almost identical to the way I did mine! And remember I am using the stock shifter, which is located a couple inches farther back than the custom shifter. I will have photos in a few days showing the completed job with the shifter centered nicely in the console. I can email them if you are interested.
Rich

Things are looking up. As I mentioned earlier, I had to pry the Tremec to the right to get it to line up with my current Forte's X-member. As I looked at it from above it appears that the shifter was actually right of center, making my console interference problems worse.

Tonight I disconnected the mounting bolts and visually centered the tail shaft in the tunnel. Then I placed the console in the stock position. I mounted the shift handle on the left side of the stub, and used a shorter bolt for the top so it wouldn't extend beyond the stub. I was now able to get into all the gears without impacting the shift plate.

So I may be good to go by just moving the console back an inch or so the stub is in a more central position. Key will be how the replacement X-member measures up. If it is still a dud, I may have to go the TH400 route.

I'll try to get some updated pictures out next week and I'm looking forward to seeing Carl and Rich's.

Mark M.

Spik the 5 speed and go for a t-56. I just put one from a 97 Z-28 in a 92 Firebird. Total investment was about $1500, and I have two overdrives!

It's not quite that cheap to put a T56 into a two-piece main seal non-hydraulic clutch 60's car. $3,000 will do it.

------------------
Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

anyone have any ideas on this swap for an 80 camaro........? email: camaro68rs4@aol.com

Danbns - why not the Borg Warner T5 from a 3rd gen Camaro?

They were not available with a 350 for emmissions reasons, it had little to do with strength. The synchros are the weak point, but I believe GM upgraded them in '86, to 350 ft/lbs if I recall. As long as you don't abuse the car (ie: powershifting) the T-5 will live just fine behind a daily driver and mild 350.

I ran one in an 84 Camaro behind a 350 - 400 HP 355 and raced it (no slicks). I did blow the 7.5" rear end out, but the T5 was running strong when I sold the car at 130,000 miles.

Not to mention they are a dime a dozen at the salvage yards. Unfortunately, I am not familiar with all the things you would need to do to get the T5 into a 69, but they do fit with two piece rear main tranny (not sure exactly when they went to the one piece though - late 80's?). Probably will need to get all the hydraulic clutch parts and any of the linkage you can get your hands on.

The Tremecs, Doug Nash and T56 units are nice, but pricey for what you want.

Just my opinion.

------------------
68 Camaro, 383 small block with TH350 trans. 11.98's at 111mph and never trailered.

[This message has been edited by Eric68 (edited 02-13-2002).]

I put the tremec tko in my 67 and after talking to Mike, I had him send me his x-member ( it's the new design that has an angle peice welded on in the center) I was coverting from a four-speed so the only extra parts I needed was the 26 spline clutch disc and I had the press plate and flywheel surfaced. the x-member fit perfectly in the frame and now my speedo works, back-up lights work for the first time in probably ten yrs. with 3.73 rear gears and 26.5" tire - 65 mph is at aprox 1800 rpm. my car doesn't have the console so all I had to do was cut the floor back about 2" and cut down and drill my hurst shifter to fit. total cost was about $2500. but my muncie was needing a rebuild that would have been around $800. I am totally happy with the fortes tremec.

DanBnis,

If you're looking for a cheap 5spd, the T5 is the way to go. I've been running one behind the 350 in my 69 for about 2 years now with no tranny problems. I drive it in Houston traffic, cruise it on the highway, and have run it at the strip a few times (13.8 best on BFG Radial TA's). I did have a problem with my clutch fork/throwout bearing which has caused me to blow the slave cylinder that activitates the clutch.

I'm currently looking for a 83 Bellhousing to convert it back to a manual clutch linkage and if you can find one, I believe that's the way to go. Either that or go with the hydraulic throwout bearing. I've got the master cylinder off of a 3rd gen currently with a "home made" bracket that works great but ain't pretty.