I am restoring a 67 rs.my question is about the 327 engine.I want the most tire frying small block I can get & still run on pump gas.I have the 275 hp engine completely stock ,64cc 2.02 #462 casting heads,small journal crank,stock cam,rods,& pistons and a four barrel carb.The motor sits in front of a 4-speed & a 12 bolt with 390 gears.The motor has never been rebuilt & its #'s match. I would like to keep it as stock "looking" as possible,ie,no aluminum heads no blowers etc.I have contacted several machine shops in my area about rebuilding my 327 & they either say scrap it for a 350 or rebuild it stock. Neither of those anwers is an option for me. hopefully someone else has been in this spot.

Honestly, it's hard to make a tire frying 327. These engines can be built to produce great top end horsepower, but they don't produce a lot of low end torque (kind of like a Chevy 302). For torque, you need a bigger engine.

Your 3.90s will help but the Muncie has a high first gear. My 515 hp supercharged 350 doesn't really spin much off the line. I have an M-21 and 3.73s.

Why not go with a 350 (or even a 383 or 400), and build it to look like a stock 327. My brother put a disguised 400 his 64 Impala SS (he even used Corvette 2.5 inch ram's horns). If you don't have the $$ to spend on the cores for a new engine, I would stick with the 327 and do the basic mods (port heads, aftermarket intake, good cam like a COMP 262H or 268H, and headers). Without a power adder, 1 hp per cid isn't out of the question.

I didn't think the 275hp 327 had big valve heads (could be wrong). The casting # won't tell you if you have big or small valves, it has to be physically verified. A street 327 doesn't really need big valve heads, so I don't know if I would spend the $$ to have small valve heads converted if that's what you have.

[This message has been edited by gheatly (edited 01-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by gheatly (edited 01-31-2000).]

Welcome to the club!I have a # matching 67 ragtop,and I know what your talking about.Part of me wants to make the car fast as possible,the other wants to keep it stock.I try to get performance out of it without cutting it up or changing anything that I can't change back to stock later.When I got this car the only major changes from stock were a Holly and Comp cams 260H cam.It also has the 2.02-1.60 valves.The Holly was shot when I bought the car so I replaced the Holly with an Edelbrock carb and Performer intake.Set up like this it ran a best of 16.5@87.Took out the 10 bolt with 2.73's,put in 12 bolt with 3.42's then ran 15.3@92.Then added a TH350 to replace the PG,Dynomax headers in place of cast iron manifolds,2 1/4" duals with a Flowmaster transverse mounted muffler to replace the 2" system.This ran a 14.5@94,but the carb. was not re-jetted for the new exhaust,it was also mid 90's that day.This winter I am putting in a Isky 270"megacam" 221 dur. .465 lift 108 LSA and a 2400 stall speed convertor.After I have the car re-dynoed,I'll take it back to the track,I'm shooting for mid 13's.
This is not exactly a "screemer",but IMO won't be bad for a car that looks as stock as this one.I am running skinny bias ply redlines on rallys,interior is bone stock,body and suspention mostly stock(multi-leafs,SS hood)but nothing obvious like slapper bars.Under the hood I could not hide the headers of coarse,but I try to hide what I can.My Edelbrock intake is painted Chevy orange just like the rest of the engine,I even had a machine shop bore a hole in the intake so I could retain my stock oil filler tube.I am in the process this winter of stripping off as much aftermarket chrome(from the previous owner)as I can, waterpump,alternator,thermostat housing ect.I am also running an aftermarket air cleaner,but am modifying the stock one so I can put it on if I know I will have my hood up,like at cruises or shows.
Yes,you can build up a 350 or go the 383 route,I think this is what most people do,but I wanted the same effect that you are talking about,fast, but stock looking,I think it's almost a sleeper effect.I know this kind of goes against the grain but so what.The hardcore purists think I should leave it alone, but it's to slow for my taste.The others say put a bigger engine in and chrome everything,nothing wrong with that,if they want to give me the $$ to do it.I also have seen posts here with guys running 327's that are running high 12's-low 13's,but I don't know how street friendly thier rides are.I do agree with most of gheatly's points,with these small displacement engines our gearing is very important,I am considering going to 3.73 or 3.90's later this year.Don't let machine shop guys talk you out of what you have in mind,there are people out there like us!
I know this reply is getting long if you want anymore of my info,let me know,I'll post it,or you can always E-mail me.Good Luck!
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67 RS RAGTOP # matching, 4X4 CHEVY TRUCK

[This message has been edited by 67drake (edited 01-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by 67drake (edited 01-31-2000).]

A 327 WILL NOT MAKE AS MUCH LOW END TORQUE AS A 350 DUE TO ITS SHORTER STROKE, HOWEVER IT WILL MAKE AS MUCH OR MORE TOP END POWER PER CUBIC INCH. SO JUST REMEMBER THAT A CAM THAT WILL RUN OUT OF STEAM AT 5500 IN A 350, WILL GO TO 6000 IN A 327 SO YOU MAY WANT A LITTLE MORE GEAR. I HAVE RACED A 400 BLOCK WITH A 327 CRANK (352CI) AND BEAT ALL THE 350'S IN MY CLASS. DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU A 327 WON'T RUN!

I had the same thing in an El Camino once, I rebuilt it with a set of small pop-ups, reworked the heads, added a single plane intake, some good rod bolts (a must), and a solid lift Z cam. It was a screamer. I had a 3.36 gear out back, and it would run forever.It wasn't a powerhouse until about 3000, but your 3.90 gears will help with that. The cam is outdated by todays new hydraulic standards, but still is a good cam for the street IMO. Some will think otherwise.

gheatly you were right about the heads, they are 1.94s.The tranny is a Borg-Warner t-10 out of a 78 Z28.Thanks guys for all the info.

dion, i had a 327 in my 68 camaro that was a screemer. like they all say, it didn't have a lot of bottom end, but top end it had. i was bored 30 over, 10.0:1 comp, holley strip dominator intake, #462 heads, small journels, 474" lift, 292 duration,cam made by erson cams, 650 double pump. this was hooked up to a th-400, 2500 stall, 4.10 gears, 12 bolt posi. i loved this engine and i am now in the process of getting another one and building it to those same spec's and putting it into my 1990 rs, if i can figure out how to convert the 1990 from mfi to carburetor.
later,
bruce69camaro

I had a very tired 327 in my '69. I took it apart and had the machine shop look it over. Like many engines of that time, it was worn out and had already been rebuilt several times. The cylinders were already .060 over and the crank was in a similar condition. The camel hump heads needed completely rebuilt and converted for unleaded gas. Since it wasn't the original engine anyway, I ended up trading the whole engine for machine work on a 400 SB I drug out of a junkyard. That was the best move I've made - the new engine has gobs of useable torque and it's a blast to drive. I didn't have to go crazy with the modifications to get this much power and I don't have to wind it up like a 2 cycle dirt bike to make power. Best of all - I spent less money than I would have rebuilding the 327!



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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed
'99 HD Road King Classic

I have a 1970 Corvette 350/350hp which is very stock looking. I put a 400 crank in it and made a 383. I used the KB hypertectic pistons and a CR of 9.5. I added a comp cam
and run the stock manifolds. I have a 4 speed and 3.73 rearend. I am very pleased with the engine and it makes alot of torque.
It also does well on the highway. I would recommend a long stroke combination for the
street.....

Dion, It's good to hear I'm not the only one in this boat. I have a 67 RS ragtop with a stock 327 also. I too wanted to bump up the power a little so I bought a new cam Crane 272 and some 350 ported heads which were worked over to handle higher lifts and unleaded gas. I haven't put this combo together yet so I'll let you know how it works later. Since I wanted to retain the factory look I plan on using the stock intake and exhaust. I've done some reading and it looks like you can get some good improvements on these by just porting the intake and exhaust. There is plenty of info out there on how to do it so look around and you will find it. To help answer your original question, when I was facing your problem, what I found was if you spend a lot of money on the 327 you're probably better off with a 350. This is why I went with some relativly cheep heads and a new cam. If I were to do it again I would have my 462 heads ported and reworked for the larger valves and unleaded gas. This will probably cost you $300 or so but this is still cheaper than new ones and will produce good results. Don't let someone talk you into newer stock 350 heads like the 434s I bought. They may be cheeper but a reworked set of 462s will be better. When I asked how much it would cost to get a reworked set of 462s they said it would be in the $650 range as oposed to $470 for the 434s As for the rest it sould not be very expensive to do a basic overhaul of the rest of the motor.

Hey Rick,did you ever get that 12 bolt 4.11 posi you were looking at?If you did I just wanted to know how you like it?Our cars are very similar,I was thinking on going to 3.90's later this year,so I figured I would ask what you thought of your upgrade.Thanks

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67 RS RAGTOP # matching, 4X4 CHEVY TRUCK

I think that buying new heads is the way to go. For about the same cost or less, usually less, than it would be to go through a set of camel humps; meaning a rebuild including porting, hardened exhaust seats, new springs, and good valves. Compare that with a set of brand new Dart S/R heads for about $600 complete. The S/R heads would outperform the camel humps any day. As the demand for performance increases there is even less reason to stay with an original production GM head. Unless originality is the prime concern I would go with new aftermarket heads any day.

Steve R.

67 Drake, I never did get the 4.11 rear end. If you have been following the post you probably noticed the one I posted about the shake in my car. After replacing every steering and suspension part I could not find the source of the vibration. Finally it turned out to be the rear springs. A new set of 5 leaf springs fixed it up. So the long answer to your question is, after all this I just didn't have the $$$.

Dion, To follow up on what Steve said. I agree entirely with him. If you are going to make a fast 327 get the new heads. Also I would recomend vortecs. Here's why, when I went looking I was talked out of them because everyone said I would need new intake and valve covers. Here's what they left out, since my 327 was original there is now way to put on any kind of HP intake with out changing the valve covers due to the PCV. And there is no way to put on any kind of HP intake with out changing the valve covers due to the oil filler. The short answer is if you are not going to get a stock look then you will end up changing the intake and valve covers anyway so go with the Vortecs. If you do want a stock look have the heads worked over and port your intake and exhaust.

I would pull the 327 out and store it, you would still have numbers matching car but running different engine. My freind didnt do this and wish had of. he rebuilt his #'s matching to be a screamer, and went out and threw a rod thru the block. And well his #'s matching is gone. It's has sat now in the garage for 2 years, I guess he's still bumbed out.

If I were you, I'd get a 375 hp 327 Corvette fuelie cam and a good intake/ carb (like an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, and a Holley 650)

I HAVE THE SAME ENGINE IN MY 67, I PUT THE 350 HP 327 CAM AND LIFTER SET FROM CRANE,WITH #461 HEADS,I WENT PETE JACKSON QUITE GEAR DRIVE,I USE THE ORIG. CARTER QUADRAJET(REJETTED),I SWITCHED TO HEI IGNITION,B&M TURBO 350,WITH 2:73
10 BOLT. IT WILL MELT THE TIRES ON COMMAND
I BUILT IT FOR TOP SPEED BUT IT STILL JUMPS OFF THE LINE.THE 327 IS AN OUTSTANDING ENGINE
IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MATCH PARTS. IT ROCKS, AND TO LOOK AT IT ,IT APPEARS TOTALLY STOCK.

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