For the people who don't live in the area a California Highway Patrol Officer (Thomas Steiner) was shot and killed at a Pomona courthouse parking lot after a day in court. The shooter was a 16 year old wannabe gang member who wanted to impress some gang members walked up to Officer Steiner and fired 3 shoots 2 hit his protective vest but the third one struck him in the head and he died. He left behind 2 sons age 3 and 13. While I was watching the news his family talked about his fascinations with Camaro's and then showed a picture of him standing next to a mid 70's Camaro as a young man. After he became a CHP he drove the hot pursuit Camaro's on the interstate chasing truckers and speeders and if I remember right his family said he was working on a Camaro at the time of his death. On a side note the shooter was suspended for bringing a gun to school 2 weeks earlier SUSPENDED !! not kicked out and put to jail. I'm not one to get on the soapbox but I felt I had to say something about the man. Thank You, Rich T.

Here's an article:

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/042704_nw_chpOfficer_funeral.html

Seems as though he is a fine man and a respected trooper. Hell, he liked his Camaro's. What more could you ask. I'm sure he will be missed dearly by those who loved him and knew him. As for the little "jitbag" that killed him, ZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPP! I'll pay for the electricity.

That is a real shame. Even though I don't know him or his family it still makes me feel really sad and angry for his family. Sounds like they lost a good guy. I hope that little bastard who shot him rots in HELL.

I'm going to send a donation and letter to the family.

If any of you would like to post your condolences here: I'll print it all out, and mail it in with my donation.
David

" Donations to his family can be made in care of Rancho Bank, Steiner Family Trust, P.O. Box 697 San Dimas, CA 91773. "

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way. First I feel for his family and the crime/murder is/was a shame and the murderer should get what he deserves.

One thing that has always rubbed me the wrong way is that when a rich/famous person or a cop get killed it is big news and everyone feels terrible. I am not saying you/we shouldn't. People are murdered everyday and there are no posts about that. If someone came up and shot me (or any other innocent person), who happens to love Camaros, it wouldn't even make the news. This has always bugged the HELL out of me. Everyones life is valuable, no one person is better or more important than another. They all are very important to their families and it hurts just as much if he/she is a cop or a janitor.

There is more to this but, I don't want o be rude or ruin the thread. I understand why it was posted and it is a sad thing to hear. Wouldn't make a difference if he liked Mustangs or Hondas it is still the same senseless crime. I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers.

Well, you know maybe it's a bit different since they put their asses on the line to keep us safe.

It is a shame to loose anyone,but it touches you when the guy was like us, and liked doing what we do.

Not to steal any thunder on this thread, but I posted a couple weeks ago about my friends that died when their Apache was shotdown on Easter Sunday. Well Shane, one of the guys killed was also a devout camaro guy and was building a 68 SS, I dont think he ever registered here, but he came here alot and read posts for info. Right now his wife is looking into what to do with the car, all the bodywork is pretty much done and has a mild 383 just assembled. Sad he wont get to finish it.
Jerry

"I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers"
Thought I saw a naked Chicken running around here.

[ 04-29-2004, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: 69 ]

Wasn't there a CHP officer on this board?

That is really horrible... Stupid, stupid brainless moron with a gun. I can't even believe people would do such a thing to IMPRESS a gang!! I hope that little b*st*rd gets life in prison or worse. He deserves no mercy since he showed absolutely none for that officer... R.I.P. man.

suspended for bringing a gun to school!? that is a HUGE load of BS. Kids get suspended for fist fights, not guns! He should have been thrown out of school and put in jail and fined massivly. I wouldnt mind seeing this kid and giving him a few punchs to the jaw.

Royce? Here is a ruffled feather. I've been in law enforcement 27 years. You are very correct when you say every death is a tragedy. ALL people who die at the hands of another are to be mourned. Doesn't matter...great or small, rich or poor, gay or straight, white or black. All sensless deaths are a tragedy. Every cop knows he/she runs a risk of "life threatening" incidents and they must accept this as a condition of employment. One thing must be made very clear. We DO NOT put our lives on the line every day. We just don't know what day we will. Cops as well as firefighters, EMS, and a few others have trained hard and long, dedicated their life to working for the public in order to make their corner of the world just a little safer. Remember when a child could safely play in the front yard? We have all gotten a ticket for something. Why? Because taffic law violations cause accidents which cause injury and death. Just reminding someone of the danger of their actions doen't seem to work. All professions have a degree of danger involved. With cops, just like the CHP officer, all he did was walk out of a courtroom, to his car, in uniform. He was killed for what he was, A COP! If he had been dressed in a suit, he would be home, right now, working on his Camaro. Firefighters die fighting fires, trying to save lives and property. Die for property? Yes, they do. Just like all others, cops have families, friends, who also must accept the dangers as part of life. Cops are killed for who they are. They are the sign of authority everyone hates until they are needed. When someone steals from you, hurts you, threatens you, or just speeds up and down your street, call a plumber. I don't mean you personally, but you get my point. I will bring up 9/11/01. Police, firefighters, and EMS lost their lives. Why? Trying to help perfect strangers. They saved over 25,000 people that day. We lost (as a nation) over 3000, they saved over 25000. Some came from home, on their days off to do this. It is the call to duty that drives them. Civilians stayed in the WTC to help others and died for it. They are heroes. Why should the death of a cop draw more attention than others? Mainly because that cop died trying (in most cases) to help people like you, me, my parents, my friends, by doing the job we expect them to do. Should they be mourned as heroes? Hell yes! Is their death more important than others, as a society....yes! Is the person more important than any other person? In the whole scheme of life, probably not. It is what he/she stood for. One last thing. The next time any of you look at the life of a person, on a headstone you will see a birthdate, dash, and date of death. The birthdate and date of death are not as important as the dash between them. It is that dash that made the person who he/she is. It is what they did in that period of time between birth and death that is important. I just bureied my retired police chief. Angelglo just lost a dear friend and fellow officer. He was killed working a nasty section of S.F. for what. He was a cop. Plain and simple. He was trying to help those who lived in that nasty *** area...trying to make it a little safer for them. He didn't live there. Why should he have cared? For me? In 27 years, I have been shot AT, cut, beaten, wrecked, and I am still here. Why? I love this damn job. Others can watch NYPD Blue, CSI, Law and Order, Adam 12, whatever. I live it. I have used CPR to bring back two people (one is still alive), I have delivered three babies, and I have told just too frikken many parents about the death of their child in an accident. I have held hands, helped the elderly do simple things (like turning off the water to thier washer when the hose breaks), found lost puppies, and wandering alzheimer patients. I have had children run up to me and ask for my autograph and just walk beside me. Why? Because of what I am. These make my job great. Best damn job in the world. I could die today, tomorrow, the next day, or not at all. Who knows. I will be here tommorrow, and the next. I, like others in law enforcment, firefighters, EMS, and others are doing it to make our dash count. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Codi;
Well said.
I have several good friends in the CHP and other inforcement positions locally - they are all very depressed and interspective about this murder of a fellow officer.
Our thought's and prayers are with this family.

Originally posted by camaroman7d:
One thing that has always rubbed me the wrong way is that when a rich/famous person or a cop get killed it is big news and everyone feels terrible. I am not saying you/we shouldn't. People are murdered everyday and there are no posts about that. 'cam-man' - I know you didn't intend to start a 'ruffling-o-the-feather' with your post and hope I don't start a flame war either. You have acknowledged the tragity of his death in your post - but, questioned why other losses of 'normal people' are not acknowledged here - they are. Just one recent post - http://www.camaros.net/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=007820 - :(

I don't think the purpose of the original post was anything other than to point out how close we all are and what a 'small-world' it really is...

John

There are just way too many guns in the states. My heart goes out to his family. Get rid of your guns.

well said codi. i just want to add that when i joined the police dept, it never said in the job description that i could be killed on the job but it is known by every law enforcement officer that it is one of the hazzards. people always say they hate the lifestyle of gang members and the way they live by shooting and killing each other. well so do police officers but i consider to be in a gang that helps preserve the peace. all the other gangs are gunning for us just because we stand in their way of disrupting peoples lifestyle. all other gangs want to get rid of us and we want to get rid of them too but we can not just go up to them and start shooting for no apparent reason. with them, they can do what ever they want because they feel there is no law that governs them. my friend just got killed by a gang member in the line of duty. though it is not mentioned anywhere, he saved the lives of countless people. he left behind a wife, child, family, and friends. how did he do this? by giving his life because the person who shot him was from another gang looking to kill a member of an opposing gang. so, the lives of hundreds or even thousands of decent people has forever been changed to save the life of a gang
member(s) who will probably end up in jail, or killed or even change the life of another in the worst way.

i will end it there because it just gets more emtional.

angel

Just an addendum to my response. My partner just called me. He sees a wanted subject on his porch and called me for back-up because Dayton P.D. has no one available to assist. I am getting ready to leave and meet him to serve the warrant. I may be here tomorrow, or not. Don't know, but "Duty" calls. Just put yourself in shoes like these right now. GOD! I love this job.

Well I see I did ruffle a feather or two. I kind of figured my opinion would do that. Now, let me say my uncle was a polise officer, my brother in law is a Firefighter, I have several friends that are cops and others that work for CHP.

The job you choose is your choice if you like it fine. I don't envy you at all. Personally I have never called the police for help and hopefully I never will.

I never said a cops life was worth any less but, by the same note they are not worth any more. That line of thinking is why I have a hard time with some "cops", you are a cop because you want to be not because someone made you do it. I have been shot at, knives pulled, punched, etc.. too and that was just trying to get to and from school (and I didn't have a radio, gun, club or back-up). That doesn't make me any better than the next guy. I have even thought about being a police officer before but, it is not for me. I don't like to treat people like that.

I don't want to turn this post into an anti cop thing, because that's not what I am all about. Of course the cops will stick together and it will become a me vs. you thing, which was not my intention.

My point was nobody on this site (that I know of) even knew this guy (CHP officer), and maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut but, I didn't. I am not all that fond of most cops I will admit, I do not hate them or want to see them harmed I just don't want to cross paths with them. I don't trust them and if they are around I try to avoid them. I had a few "you fit the description" experiences in my life and I am sure that's why. I know all cops aren't bad but, it only takes one to ruin your life. Since I know several of them I know all the "heros" are not so clean themselves and bend and break laws as much as anyone else, they just don't have to pay the price. Is that what makes them a "hero"?

Those kids over in Iraq and other places are heros they didn't ask to be sent over there, and they don't have a choice. Yet, I have only seen a couple of posts about those that lost their lives over there fighting for something that isn't even theirs. And which post recieved the most attention? The one about Tillman, while I think what he did was great and showed he was a true patriot, he didn't have children and his wife is set for life. Now look at the poor guy right out of high school with two babies and one on the way who gets killed over there, who's life directly effects more people? This is the point I was trying to make. By the way Tillman didn't want a bunch of hype and that's why he wouldn't do interviews, etc... He made the ultimate sacrafice and should be honored for that.

A life is a life, I don't care what you do for a living. If you think you are more important or "worth" more than another human, you need to look in the mirror and really figure things out. That is my take on it. We can agree to disagree and that's fine. I was taught that I am no more improtant than anyone else but, at the same time nobody is more important than me either (I don't care if it is a homeless man in the gutter or the president), if more people thought like that this would be a better place and we wouldn't "need" cops. Treat everyone like you would like to be treated.

With Angelos co-worker I didn't say a word and I never would, he knows the guys family and worked with the guy. That is a whole different deal. I would never dis-respect that.


Never once did I say any cop deseved to be shot, so don't try to turn the words around like I appove of it. The world trade center was a low blow and is not even relevant to my point. That was a tragedy any way you look at it.

By the way doesn't tax money pay for the cops? If so I think that's why "we" have the right to call you when we need help, right? Isn't that your job? So I don't see where you are doing anyone a favor, you are doing your job which you get paid for (and you chose to do). You work FOR the public, to protect and serve. Right?

Now instead of ruining this post, if you don't like my veiw feel free to e-mail me and we can discuss it. Maybe you can show me what I am missing.

It is very hard to express yourself on the board but, I tried my best here. Hopefully it comes across clear.

royce,

i dont have any hard feelings towards you or any one else i have to deal with. you also didnt ruffle my feathers. everyone has ther own way of thinking.

i think you are trying to differentiate the military and cops. i can tell you they are pretty much the same thing. im 18 years in the USMC and was in dessert storm and im will go again if ordered to. but im in the military voluntarily like everyone else is even those 17 year old kids. there still is no draft and being in the military is strictly one's own choice.

we do get paid by tax payers and we do work for the public but as you said, its not for everyone. there is a certain kind of person that can be a good cop. i dont think you would want someone like andy dick or even adam sandler as a cop. there would never be any work done.

i also think you are stereotyping all of us in one barrell. i do know there are some bad cops out there but you cant forget that cops are hired from the general public and some slip through the crack and get hired but there are a hell of alot of bad guys out there too. as we always say in the military, "there is a 10% in every group". so, i appoligize for the bad seeds in the police dept but but we are also people too. im a sniper on the swat team and i also work the busiest district in the city but i dont always deal with the criminal element. before i got injured, i dedicated some of my free time to go to elementary schools to do talks and just to be there just in case. this was after columbine with klebol(sp) and harris. i think those are their names and who are two more bad seeds in the public but i am not comparing or grouping you to them. anyway, i also donated my time at their sporting events also and bought everyone on the team soft drinks for the end of the game. i did that for 5 years. the way they showed there appeciation was to award me with a plaque and paint a murel on their school wall at 23rd and valencia in san francisco. i didnt ask for it. they just did it. most all cops will never ask for anything when you find their kidnapped child or find the person who killed their brother, sister, wife, husband. its just part of our job and they call us heros. we dont ask to be called heros. codi mentioned the guys at WTC as heros but he too didnt proclaim that he was a hero. if you ask any cop, they will not say they are heros either. its our job and we like to help. we dont think we are better than anyone. but its just that we can not look weaker then the next person because if we do, we will be hurt. But i do not look at myself above anyone else either. i cant speak for other coppers but i only go by my first name at work no matter if its a drug dealer or student at school. they all know me by Angel. cops also do not take things personally. for the amount of garbage we deal with, if you did take things personally, we would die of a heart attack and stress 5 years in. so, when that criminal who just sold a kilo of crack gets out of S.F. jail in a week after you arrest him, we dont get mad but we just wait because chances are, he will not become a priest and will make a mistake again.

well, im not trying to make you like cops, i just dont want you to hate them because when you say hopefully you will never will need to call a cop doesnt mean that you will never need one.

angel

I just love to hear a fellow jar-head, stand up and walk tall. Well said Angeglo and Codi.

And whom ever has read this far:
There are just way too many guns in the states. Get rid of your guns. Nope, dont think so. Just be relieved that people like some of us have guns. If we did not, the bad guys still would....... And remember, guns do not kill people. Undisaplined, under-educated, directionally impared, societial outcast's that are going-no-where-mindless idiots......kill people.

Not to mention that the United State's is a leading importer of firearms that are produced in Canada. But it doesnt make them bad either......
smile.gif

Angel, I never said I hate cops. I know they have a job to do and some do it well. There are crooks, rapists, murderes out there and in oreder to try to stop them we need cops. I am a good guy, never been in any trouble, don't do drugs (never have), don't drink (never have). So I am not some ex-con that has a thing against cops. You are correct the military is voluntary but, the difference is you don't choose where you work/fight, as a cop you can or you can choose to no longer be a cop. That was my only point.

I am sure the two of us would get along fine and even though you might not admit it here there are cops out there (and you know the ones I am talking about), that are nothing but bullys/punks. These are the ones I don't like, unfortunately I have no way of telling unless I know them. Therfore I steer clear of all of them if I can. Like I said I have seen and been in situations (harrassed) for no reason and it is not cool.

I understand you have to walk tall and demand respect, that is the way I carry myself and maybe since I don't bow down to anyone this is the problem. Maybe I am seen as a hard head or a threat, when in fact I am just being me, which if I do say so myself is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet ;)

You seem like a good guy and probably are. I wouldn't really call you a "cop" since you are on SWAT and actually do useful work, LOL.

I won't take this any further, hopefully you can see/respect my point (peopele are people) if not, then no big deal.

By the way my brother is a big time prosecution attorney and was even assistant DA of Baltimore for a while, so I am by no means against law and order. I just like to see those that need enforcement taken care of and not those of us that have done no wrong.

...edit...

Originally posted by Green Hornet:
There are just way too many guns in the states. My heart goes out to his family. Get rid of your guns. >
>Amendment II

the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

>... get my gun from me when you “pry it away from my cold, dead hands.”. ...

I would personally hate to live anyplace whare there were NO POLICE OFFICERS, I have several good friends that are KY State Troopers & I know what they go thru every day, I worked as a Coal Mine Inspector for almost 23 Years & I had it made compaired to our Troopers. I personally own 4 guns & belive in the right to bear arms & the right to defend yourself, I know that the court systems here in Ky are sometimes too easy in some cases, But I'm not the Judge.

royce,

its cool. your right and people are people and we each have our own principles and ideas. dont worry, im not like one of those religious guys knocking on your door so you can believe what i believe but i also am sure we would get along just fine.

so.....can i get a hug now? just kidding.
anyway, whats the next subject.

angel

My brother in law is a cop in Denver and years ago while he and his partner were responding to a 'domestic' situation, his partner went up the steps of the home first, my brother in law followed. The door burst open and a drunken husband came out shooting and killed the first cop where he stood. My brother in law was lucky, the guy realized what he did and fell to the floor of the porch begging 'dont kill me'. He is in prison for 25 to life and my brother in law still has nightmares about it.
That being said, I feel a cop or military person is 'special' in life. Not necessarily better, but special, in that they voluntarily put themselves in harms way and in a split second they may not be on this earth. The rest of us dont have that fear in our jobs but we sure can give those that do this work our full support and hugs when they need them.
(((( cops, military))))
There are my hugs. Thanks to those that serve us.

Royce, you have several good points and you are correct on several. No one, and I mean no one likes a cop with a crappy/bully attitude. Not the public and not the cops. Everytime the public meets one, that is the cop they remember. Agencies spend big bucks and take their time trying to wead clowns like that out during hireing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. After that, you hope they are dismissed during a probationary phase. If not, we (I mean all of us) are stuck with them. I believe if any one is going to place crap on my badge, it should be me, and not the actions of others. Heroes come in many shapes, sizes, and professions. Each and every soldier is a hero. Dead or alive. Just as the passerby who pulls someone from a burning car or building. I respect you for your opinion and I hope that someday we can sit and split a couple of "sodas" over Camaros. You are also correct in not wanting to turn this post into a pi$$ing match. I agree. At my age, I have learned to like and respect others for who they are and what they do. Last year, I had the opportunity to take part in my sons "career day". As I was one of about two dozen men and women in the school, I attracted most of the students. Why? That damn CSI. It is hard to explain what a criminal investigator/prosecutors secret service is to young people. All the kids saw was CSI. They don't distinguish between reality and Hollywood. CSI is (about) 40% correct. The rest is for show. While they were admiring my job, I was in awe of the parent next to me who is a music professer at Wright State University. Man, could he make music. I can play notes. One was a plumber, another, a nurse. THEY could do things that I would not even try. OK, I am rambling now. I'll stop. Hell, I thought I new about first gen Camaro's. When I joined this site, I learned I did not know as much as I thought and I have a great respect for many here who have taught me. I never met you people and I have repsect for many of you, just based on your knowledge and expertise. I respect your opinion and believe me whan I say I did not mean my response as an attack on you or your opinion. I am on the inside looking out and you are on the outside looking in. We have different views but we do agree on several points.

I wanted to be in law enforcement. I took the tests and even became a public safety officer for a while. During my time I found that just about everytime I interacted with someone, they were unhappy about it. It really made me sad as all I wanted to do was help people and make a difference. It got to the point that I expected the attitude from them. It's hard to be really nice to each person you meet while they are giving you attitude, excuses, etc. I think some cops just put on the "hard ***" attitude because they are so used to people giving them crap everytime they run into them.

It takes a special person to be understanding and kind to each person they interact with knowing full well that each person is most likely going to give them attitude, etc. Think about that...what if you knew everyday that just about every person that you spoke with was going to be a jerk to you. Wouldn't that affect your attitude as well?

Like I said, it takes a special person to be able to work through that and be nice. Some cops aren't able to do that hence the "hard ***" attitude.

I decided that I would rather work in IT and that's where I ended up. I appreciate what each and every police officer does for me and my family and each time I interact with one I try not to give them attitude and express my gratitude for what they do whether or not they are being a hard ***.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Angel & Codi, I am VERY hard to offend, so no offense was taken and I respect what you do. At no point was I upset in any way, I just had something on my mind and let it fly. Of course not all cops are bad but, when a person is granted so much power one bad cop can be WAY too many. We both agree on that so I will leave it alone. As it was mentioned it really depends on your life experiences and what angle you look at the situation and really that was my only point, to try to get people to look at it from a different view point. I was not trying to turn people against Police. Since you are both into Camaros I am sure you are the cream of the crop in law enforcement, ;)

click,
Domestic disputes are the worse call there is, I would hate to have to respond to that crap. There are a lot of dangerous jobs out there and believe it or not, one of the most dangerous jobs (it might be the #1 most dangerous job)is working at a convienant store, just think what life would be like without being able to get a pack of cigs (for those that smoke), late night soda, slurpee, bag of chips. These people put their life on the line everyday as well but, when one gets gunned down is "no big deal", Now I am not trying to make light of a serious situation I am just trying to point out something that most people don't realize or understand. So next time you are out getting a slurpee treat the person behind the counter with a little respect, he is putting his life on the line everyday to serve you. He is not making much money doing it either. He/she is probably a struggling parent as well. Just something to think about.

Just making a point.

Angel I luv you maaan, :D

Agree or not, we have accomplished somthing here. This thread has NOT been closed, edited, or have we been admonished. Just a good clean discussion and exchange of views and opinions. As for your take on the workers at the local "stop and rob". You are correct and I agree. They loved seeing us come in at night just for the security. We liked the free coffee. To help make your point Royce, Peggy Griffin. 59 years old. She worked a local Sunoco at night. She was found with a bullit wound to her head, slumped on the floor, behind the counter. Cash gone and the small office ransacked. We all knew her for years. After the first officer arrived on the scene, the radio chirped "AW DAMNIT, THEY SHOT PEGGY". I still remember that and miss her to this day. I can't pass that place without thinking about her. Both suspects found, busted, and in prison. Peggy? Still loved.

I also noticed this thread seems to have gravitated towards law enforcement. Just to reinerate (sp) my point, there are many professions that involve danger in this world. Law enforcement is just one of them. Some of these dangers are inherent, others, sh!& just happens and someone is killed. At any rate, a nice lively discussion. First "soda" is on me!

Codi,
I agree it was a healthy discussion no bad words spoken about each other. This is how it should be, if someone doesn't agree there is no need to call names or bash. We just proved that.

Now you have to stop agreeing with me and helping me prove points or I will start to think you are a good guy and since you're a cop that can't be, right? :D

I'll take you up on that soda if we ever get a chance to meet.

That was funny. Scare you to much? No, we do agree on some points, view is just what seperates us and I am a nice guy. I'm not sure I will ever make it to Vacaville or if you will ever make it to Dayton, Ohio. I do travel on extraditions and some day, it just may happen. If it ever does, I hope we can do the "soda" thing. I like friendly conversation and sharing Camaro stories. Family and I are heading to Colorado Springs this summer to visit my in-laws. I hope to "hook up" with several TC members there, just to shoot the breeze and talk Camaro stuff. As for the thread, the "janitor" must be off today or he is just sitting back waiting for feces to strike the electro-magnetic occilator. graemlins/waving.gif