Well, the Red Beast has a new 406 between its fenders. However, there is a strange waterleak.

On the drivers side oil pan rail, the pan bolt just in front of the "V" for the dipstick the bolt drips water. When the bolt is removed it gushes.

On the old 350 this hole is only 1" deep. On the 406 it is very deep, 3"+.

There are several things I'm thinking. Hopefully the hole is just too deep for some reason and is into the cylinder case water jacket. Perhaps a crack but it would have to be huge due to the volume of water.

Any ideas?

Carl

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The Red Beast http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

Got that thing fired up already, man you work fast! Sounds like the bolt boss was drilled into the water jacket to me. Never heard to this problem and can only quess how to fix. Either use thread sealer like that used for your head bolts, my first choice, or try regular silicone. Can't wait to get a test drive. Have a great Thanks Giving weekend.

Joseph

Yes, Carl does work fast. So fast that he didn't even notice me crawl under the motor with the drill. What did you think I was doing when I was "checking the speedo cable" http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

water jacket does not go that far down. sounds like a crack in the block. did you have the block magnafluxed first. 400,s were prone to over heating, many were. I have found one fix that works in many places. Get all the water out of the hole. take a spray nozzle with the red tube from a can of WD40 and put it on a can of spray starting ether and spray all the oil and junk out of the hole. Watch your eyes!!!!!!! mix up some JB weld for iron, pack it in the hole, clean all the oil off the bolt and cover the threads with JB as well. Install the bolt and let it squeez out. let it harden, at least 24 hours. If you have to remove the bolt in the furure heat it with a propane torch and pull it hot.

Ah, my friend John. Don't you need me to help you put in the back window? I'll be sure to buy a nice big rodeo belt buckle and wear it when I come over! http://www.camaros.net/forum/tongue.gif

Chevy30,

The block was maged before machining.

Agreed, the water jacket normally does not come down that far. However, the bolt hole is very deep (3"+) and the block drain is very close to the pan rail height. Is there a water jacket directly above the pan bolt hole? Perhaps somone "fixed" it in an earlier life.

Also, even with no pressure in the cooling system the water pours out when the bolt is removed. If there was a crack that big would there be water in the oil? (There is none)

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The Red Beast http://www.geocities.com/casanoc



[This message has been edited by CarlC (edited 11-22-2001).]

Carl -

How about inserting an allen screw into the hole with some thread sealant (same as goes on the head bolts) and drive it in far enough for the pan bolt to clear? That may plug the hole and correct the problem if it is just due to the hole being drilled too deep. If there is actually a crack in the block then it may or may not fix it but this is an easy fix to try.



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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed
www.geocities.com/sdenning1 (http://www.geocities.com/sdenning1)

I guess I do not see the 3 inches. the side of the block does the 45 degree for the cylinder walls in much less than 3 inches after the pan rail. With on oil and water mix I would try the fix I suggested and hope for the best. when the block heats up things may chnge with the water and oil situation.

Carl,
Dont ask me why, but it sounds like someone drilled that hole up into the water jacket, which does come down pretty close to the oil pan rail. The drain plug on the side of the block is close to the bottom of the water jacket.
If the hole is threaded all the way up its length I would also use a set screw to fix it, but I would use a little different approach. I would first mix up some JB weld and shove a good "glob" of it up in the hole. Then I would get a short (1/4" ?) setscrew and screw it in the hole about 1" or more. Then I would get another 1/4" long set screw and screw it up in the hole and jam it very tight against the first set screw. This should keep them fom moving. After the JB weld sets up, clean the excess JB weld out with a tap and put in the oil pan bolt. I would then get a bottle of KB Block Seal and put in the cooling system. It will seal up any small remaining leak.
I doubt that you have a cracked block, you would be getting water in the oil by now.
Hope this helps,


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Bill Koustenis
Owner
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
1971 Chevelle "Heavy Chevy" original owner
1973 Z-28 ..one family car...Brother bought it new in 73

I like Bill's New and Improved Fix even better than mine - that should last forever!

Hopefully, this will fix your problem. That's a real bummer having a brand new motor in the car and then have to lay under it and let water drip all over you. Get it fixed and let us know how it runs.

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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed
www.geocities.com/sdenning1 (http://www.geocities.com/sdenning1)

A company I worked for put a rebuilt truck 361 FE type engine in an F-750 once and as soon as we got it to the shop and parked it. It leaked water behind the bellhousing. I checked the tag and it said standard bore, .010"/.010"! What, a rebuilt engine w/ a standard bore???

It had a crack in the end bulkhead of the block. Most people would have just thought that a freezeplug was weeping and not bother w/ it.

To top it off, they made good w/ a 391 rebuilt shortblock, but let two of the heads valve springs get wet and rust in a little spot. I went to drive it from MO to IN after it was repaired and dropped a valve, not 100 miles from the shop that fixed it. Needless to say two weeks later, a shop in IL went through it and replaced a piston and rod as well as one complete head!! AND backcharged the first shop!!

Go figure. pdq67

Rocky and Bill,

Thanks for the suggestions. I like the double set-screw idea.

I re-tapped every hole on the block before assembly and none of the threads on the pan rail were damaged or funky looking. It's baffling. And it does really suck when hot water is running down your arm!

The engine only has 15 minutes running time on it so hopefully the water in the oil deal ain't happenning. There's several other issues that I have to fix before the first road test but hopefully tomorrow is the day.

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The Red Beast http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

Well, Bill's double set-screw and block seal seems to have done the trick. So far no leaks and there is no coolant in the oil. I'll keep my fingers crossed and the rabbits foot in the glove compartment. Thanks for the suggestions.

Now if I could just get the carb to stop leaning out at wide-open throttle....

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The Red Beast http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

Carl -

Glad to hear you're getting the motor problems solved. How does it run overall? Does it make the power you expected?

I think I need better tires to find that high rpm lean-out problem on mine. After a couple of hundred miles my motor loosened up very nicely. Around the high 3000RPM range it gets real happy and everything starts working right. That's when the tires let loose and the car starts covering a lot of road. I'm afraid to keep my foot in it all the way to 6000 or so - there's not enough road. I haven't really even tuned it yet - but I think it's time for some stickier tires.

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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed
www.geocities.com/sdenning1 (http://www.geocities.com/sdenning1)

Scott,

She's at the 200 mile mark and runs pretty well. I have not banged it through the gears yet, but rolling into the throttle in 1st gets hairy.

The WOT lean condition has me a bit baffled. 69 primary jets and the car crusies on the freeway very nicely at 14:1 A/F ratio, but as soon as the secondaries open it leans out. I'm up to 82s on the secondaries and it's still lean. I'll go up 4 sizes tomorrow and if that doesn't do it a fuel pressure check is in order.

So, how does the wife feel about some new meats for Big Red?



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The Red Beast http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

CarlC - I also have the Carter street fuel pump. I put an electric fuel pressure gauge in the cockpit. In my case, I feel I need to drop my tank and remove the sock since, even with a new filter, I see a drop off to about 4 # at high rpms. Also, can you play with the power valve? Aren't there high flow units?

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Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv,355,M20,4.10's and I don't worry about stone chips.

Rick,

Though I should have one, there is no sock in the tank. The next time I drop that sucker I'll put on on. The other system filters are fine.

I've been playing with powervalves. With the vacuum gauge and A/F meter I can watch it open and richen the primaries nicely. The carb is a HP750 vacuum secondary so there is no secondary powervalve. The mains do it all so they have to make up for the lack of a power valve. I'll try going really big and see if that's the problem.


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The Red Beast http://www.geocities.com/casanoc