Ok, got the resistor issue with the ignition figured out, now I dont have power at the fuel pump relay. Anyone have some info that could help me here? My schematic shows that a wire from a fuse is supposed to be hot at all times (it isnt) the wire that is supposed to have power prior to the fuse is dead where does it get power?

Cj

Maybe from a fusible link at the starter solenoid post with the positive battery cable.

Ok found that a wire was tucked away from the battery when I installed the battery terminals (bought it that way). Now I have power to the fule pump relay, but nothing out so no fuel yet there is supposed to be a ignition lead at the relay correct? And does it come from the starter sol?

Cj

Sounds like the first thing you need to do is get a schematic for your vehicle and a digital volt meter.

Do you have power to the relay contact, which when closed sends power to the pump, or do you have power to the relay coil which inturn would close the contact to power the pump? I would assume the first (at the contact), now do you hear the relay click when you turn the key to the run position? If not either the relay is bad, or your not getting power from a source that is energized with the key in start and run. Relay terminals 85 and 86 are the coil connections, terminal 30 is the common(usually where +12V is attached), terminal 87 is the normally open (with the coil deenergized) contact, 87a is the normally closed contact (with the coil deenergized). The terminals on OEM relays are typically labed on the bottom next to the male terminals (in other words you have to unplug it from it's connector to see them). You should have the battery wire connected to the 30 terminal, and the 87 terminal should connect to the fuel pump. The ignitions switch should send power to the 85 terminal in run and start, and 86 should be connected to ground. These two connections could be reversed since the coil doesn't care which way current flows thru it.

Power doesn't come from the stater solenoid to feed the fuel pump relay.

[ 11-05-2004, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Mark C ]

The fuel pump relay is controlled by the ECM.

At key on the ECM will power the relay for 2 seconds. The ECM will then continue to power the relay as long as it receieves DRPs (distributor reference pulses).

If the engine oil pressure is over 4 psi the fuel pump itself will be powered. The oil pressure switch bypasses the relay as a backup to relay failure.

If you have removed the ECM (I have this feeling. . .) then another means will need to be found to enable the relay.

Bob.

I beleive the ECM provides the ground for the fuel pump relay, as long as all those conditions are met. +12 volt power to the relay coil comes thru an ignition switched power source.

Ok, good info guys and I appreciate it. I have a schematic and a multimeter..anyway here is what i have. Orange wire with 12v constant and under no other condition is there any output voltage. The gound is good. I jumped the Orange wire to the Green white which powers the coil of the relay then I have power to the Brown/white wire that goes to the oil psi sw. Only wire left is a red one which according to the schematic is a pump prime lead. Not sure what its function is though.

So next I checked the leads at the fuel pump with the jumper in, one 12v, 1 ground and the red has 2.8v with the ignition sw on.

The ECM is installed in the car and I figured that the ECM controls the signal to the pump.

Tried 2 different relays also. My goal here is to just get the thing to start so I can see if the engine is worth trying to fix or replace.

Thanks again for the help.

Cj

The red lead marked prime is to test the pump.

Run battery power to that lead and the pump should run. If it does not run then there is either a wiring/connector problem or the pump is bad.

The red prime lead bypasses both the relay and the oil pressure switch.

As for the ECM one thing to check for is the SES blink at key on. Watch the SES light as you turn on the ignition key (do not crank). The light should come on, pause, blink off, then come on solid.

Bob.

Ok the light comes on flashes off then back on. Just as you said. Any idea why I am not getting the switched ignition power to the relay?

Cj

Originally posted by 85SiHybrid:
Ok the light comes on flashes off then back on. Just as you said. Any idea why I am not getting the switched ignition power to the relay?

Cj There isn't any switched ignition feed to the fuel pump relay.

To active the relay the ECM sends power (+12 v) to the coil via the Dark-Grn/Wht wire. The Blk/Wht relay wire is connected to the engine block. This is ECM ground. At key on engine off the ECM will activate the relay for 2 seconds.

Have you connected battery power to the red wire? If this wire isn't a pig-tail right at the relay then it is run to terminal G of the ALDL connector.

Run battery power to that wire and verify that the fuel pump runs.

Bob.

Ok, ALDL whats that?

Cj

ALDL: 12-pin connector under dash used to trouble shoot and scan the ECM and various parts. Jumper two pins and the ECM will flash malfunction codes via the SES light. Plug scan tool in to read the various sensor data from the ECM. Jumper/measure other pins for TCC and AIR.

Pin G will have the red wire in it to activate the fuel pump.

Bob.

Yup no go on the pump, getting a new one tomorrow.

Cj

Well installed the new pump and it is good to go. Now I need to wire in a series of resistors to fool the VATS cause it just has a POT in the line right now. But the old pump was ceased up solid. Thanks to everyone for there input on this I appreciate it greatly.

Cj

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Bob.