So lets try and do some troubleshooting here, hoping to solve this on my own before bringing in my shop again. The first weekend I drove the car, it started and drove perfect. Never once did it give a sign of a problem. At most I drove it 20mph around my neighborhood, and never pushed it. Next weekend, wont even start. Nothing. I have lights, and when I turn it over, I get nothing, but the heater is coming on after I let go of the key. So its a starter right? I got a new starter and its now in. When it first goes in I get in and try it out, Nothing. I am kinda bummed, so I go back and tighten all the wires and jiggle em a bit, just to see. I got to reconnect the positive cable, and as soon as it touches the batter, the thing starts turning over. The alternator starts going, but the keys arent in the car! So I take off the cable, and think the wires are too tight, move em around, lossen them up, and then I get nothing. Tighten them back up, and once the positive cable touches, it goes again. I left the cable on and waited to see if it would turn over, didnt last long because started getting sparks from the starter.
So here we are, its gotta be something simple, I really hope it is. I know the wires on the starter are in the right place, the battery is fine I am getting lights, they dont dim when I turn the key, but the gauges do and the dash lights do. The wiring harnesses are brand new, and almost everything under the hood is. Im just guessing its some little electrical problem, somethings loose, something is wrong. What would make the alternator starts going and the car start to turn when I touch the battery, but no keys in the car?
I know this is a little wierd, but trying to get a better understanding of whats going on so we can attack the problem best.
Thanks in advance.
Tim

[ 11-26-2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: tl757 ]

Post back if you are still having a problem and let us know what kind of car we are talking about. I would be looking at the wiring on the starter. If your starter solenoid has S and I terminal, it sounds like you have them wired backwards. Also, check your switch, older cars and/or worn switches will allow you to remove the key regardless of what position the switch is in. Additionally, with a bad switch, or, if you have a bezel, your switch may not be in the position you think it is in...a bezel can rotate. Also, when connecting/disconnection batteries, Disconnect the negative first ...When putting it back together, connect the negative last .... Post back if you are still pursuing this problem...

Sorry guys, yeah its a 69 with a 350. I think I checked and without the key the switch was in the lock position. And I am pretty sure I have the wires right. I was told yellow to the outside, and I did. But I will check again.

Tim

Yellow goes on the I terminal of the solenoid . It routes the the ignition circuit. Look at the solenoid and you will see that the terminals are labeled.

Thats not the problem. I had a mechanic here for two hours today. The starter was hooked up right, the battery is fully charged. We even got another new starter just to be certain. NOTHING. We think that there isnt power going to the starter. The heater runs right from the same harness and splits from the line that goes to the starter, the heater is good...the starter isnt. I think we have to test the line to see if there is a lack of power getting to the starter. Its not the starter anymore though...any idea what could be the problem for lack of power.
Batter is good
Fuses are all good
Starter is new and good
Harnesses are new, but could be problem

Stumped
Tim

Have you checked your neutral safety switch. Move the shifter back and forth and check to see if the switch is adjusted correctly. Also the ignition switch on the steering column is hooked to the rod and adjusted right. You need to check voltage thru those switches. The neutral safety switch is the 2 big purple wires. I dont know what color for the column switch.

The big purple wire is what connects to the S terminal. You should be able to find it running through your neutral safty switch and clutch switch if you have one. Try giving it 12 volts at some alternate point in the circuit - it should crank. You sound pretty sure that the starter is wired properly. So I presume that means you are sure the two outer terminals aren't swapped. That would cause the problem as well.

We shifted it into neutral and and kept making sure it was in park. How would I supply power to another point in the line to get it to crank. My feeling is that everything is getting power except where the line breaks for heater and starter. I am waiting on someone with a sensor that can check the wires as they come out to the starter. We tried at one point to take a screwdriver across the two S and I to see if there was spark, when it touched the battery terminal it got spark, but connecting across the two was nothing, which made us think there isnt any power getting to it.
Keep throwin em out there, I am lost
Tim

You are right to use a multitester to check for power at the starter. You are looking for power at purple wire , the S terminal when key is in start position. NOW, , you did say earlier that the car would turn over once you touched the positive cable... Did this stop happening ? Do you get any power when you turn the ignition switch? DOes the gen light come on. If it does, at this point ytou can use a remote starter switch or a screwdriver to jump the battery cable and the S terminal at the starter. YOu will be getting power from the battery cable and this should turn engine over... If this works, then you are not getting power on the purple, or, you havve a current drop and you are not getting enough power on the S terminal wire. ...

First off, thanks for sticking with me. The problem with the crank on touching the pos cable is done because we just got rid of that starter too and started over to make sure. It hasnt done it with the second new starter. When we cross the S with the battery there is spark, but I dont think it would crank up from that would it? I am not sure about spark from crossing I with battery line though, would that make a difference. I am afraid this might have to wait a little while because I am going back to school on sunday night, but I was hoping to get it done while I was here this week. I will keep trying, thanks again for the response
Tim

If you go across the S terminal on the starter to the big positive cable and hold a screwdriver across the two terminals the engine should turn over till you remove the screwdriver. It is the same thing as using the ignition switch across the terminals except they open when the key returns back from the start position. If it turns over then you need to check voltage on the 2 purple wires going thru the neutral safety switch. Those 2 purple wires is what gives the starter the 12volts to turn over. Now another thing is your battery charged good and how old is it. Have you tried jumping the car from another car or battery charger. Do you have a 12 volt test light. If not they are another thing to check power with and not real expensive.

You've got mail. I sent a pic of the wiring for your ign system.. should be easy to follow.

Hey thanks for the email, you guys are awesome. I have someone coming this week with test light and a good electrical guy. The battery is new, and we charged it just to be certain, we ruled out all the dumb stuff, so I think its just power getting to one of the terminals. So I will be back at school but I will keep you posted as I hear back. Thanks for the help, very much appreciated.

Tim