Man, too much beer maybe, or just reflecting on life. I feel like Steve McQueen in The Sand Pebbles, when he asks at the end of his life, "What the hell happened?"

What is going on in this country? We are outsourcing jobs, which many politicians respond by saying, "Trust us, it will be good in the long run." You know what, Global Economy is a catch all phrase that basically encompasses THIS: America is the Plum in the world, the Cherry. We are the Apex of the Pyramid. So... what we are really saying is that we need to raise the Standard of Living in other nations, while at the same time accepting the fact that our own Standard of Living must go down. Yet what is not being said, is that the major owners of production--of WEALTH--are the real benefactors of moving factory jobs, or software production, or customer service reps, overseas... to countries that often have significant cost advantages to our own labor force. Cost advantages such as: low wages for often uneducated, non-union, workers in countries that have no history of Democracy, or fair treatment of Labor, or infrastructure, no Workman's Comp, no pollution laws, no incentive for "green" methods of production. Additionally, many of the industries that are right this instant flooding our markets with manufactured goods, are supported by their own governments. In fact, many are almost completely subsidized. Our own tariff reforms in the last 6 years have encouraged this imbalance in trade which has real consequences for our children. In fact, look at this year's deficit!!! WTH are these idiots in Washington thinking. So... my son graduates high school. I was thinking tonight what it was like for my own Father when he left High School. What our Nation was like in regards to both Oppurtunity and HOPE! He knew that if he continued to study, and work hard, he could get a job with ITT, or IBM, or at the GM factory, or at the shuttered steel mill down by the river below my house, and work his ass off for them. That his contributions meant something. That his Employer wouldn't chase the latest Wall Street hype and cut costs by downsizing his job to outsource it to India. That there was HONOR and PRIDE in what he did. That his work meant something. That he PRODUCED something.

Do you know what is the single most driving factor in our current economy? Consumer Spending. LOL. Did you also know that the current generation of Baby Boomers have the largest single hand-down of inherited wealth in the history of humankind? Did you also know that this same generation has the highest record of unsecured debt from credit cards to mortgages of any group in the history of the known world. LOL.

GENTS, WE CAN NOT HAVE A WORLD CLASS ECONOMY IF WE ARE ALL DELIVERING PIZZA'S TO EACH OTHER!!!

im not religous, butt.... amen!
you wanna know why this is happening, well check out this thread, I believe this is happening because people are confused about what is important check out this thread;
http://www.chevelles.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=025018

yeah, this thread will last a LONG time here..

I am with you Jethro. You could not be any more correct. I feel the same way.
These times are quite possibly the times that Jesus warned us of in the Bible. I have been studying scripture and how they relate to current world events. My opinion......the USA is in jeapordy.
Perhaps I am wrong(I hope I am wrong), but I am keeping my eyes open.
Chris

Glad I only have one child.

My friends you are all right on and it's sad to see it. I never in my life thought that before I died I would see men and women with hatred and loathing for the constitution, flag, God the Father, our men and women in the armed forces, marriage between a man and a woman, children that are taught to say yes sir, self discipline,...I can't go on without cursing or breaking out in a cold sweat. :mad:

I agree!! I'm not sure how all of this is going to work out, but it does make me quite nervous. I guess I'll have to do what I've always done and keep an eye on the direction of things and try to position myself so that I can continue to be employable. I really can't compete with foreign workers in third world countries that will work for next to nothing though. I guess that we'll just see how it all works out.


On that thread at Team Chevelle....I guess that they can discuss politics, religion, etc over there huh?!?!

[ 08-05-2004, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: paulm ]

Would you like to supersize that ? I heard a statistic once that stated a high percentage of people have worked for McDonalds at least once in their life. I would like to think that not too many people will need to rely on barely minimum wage service jobs in the future to support a family.

The thing that scares me most is there does not seem to be any entry level job training anymore that can prepare kids who do not go to college. In fact, the skilled trade type jobs that used to pay enough seem to be a thing of the past. The U.S. economy seems to be drifting primarily toward service sector jobs where the rank and file earn very low wages.

For example, manufacturing any products in the U.S. is not going to provide anyone with the traditionally good jobs in the near future.

I work in an industry (aerospace) that has been devastated by outsourcing to foreign countries that have very low wages. I have been personally involved in directing some of this activity. My company would have lost major programs completely if lower cost outsourcing was not available. Some good U.S. jobs would have gone to Asia without the ability to outsource.

Unreasonable expectations of shareholders is cited by those who are the loudest opponents of outsourcing.

I have to ask though...who is going to buy the cars and fly in the planes 20 years from now if the masses are earning 1/3 or less than todays incomes ?

[ 08-05-2004, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: jackr ]

Sad... it's a very sad situation we're in. Thank You very much Mister Greedy Business Leaders and Mister Labor Unions.

Oppsss... I also forgot to take some credit MYSELF! Thank me for trying to buy consumer products at the lowest possible price regardless of Manufacture Origin. I would rather pay $150 for a reproduction fender from China than $500 for the same part manufactured in the USA (if they were still available).

Darn... lots of blame to go around. When is it time to find a sollution? graemlins/sad.gif

THE NEW WORLD ORDER. One world govt is what the illuminati want. They are getting it. Just look at what is happening with the terrorist threats. Pay attention to what is happening around you. The military in airports, large cities etc. Making you feel safe, when in reality, it is grooming us to see this as normal. Look back 50+ years ago in Germany and see that the same thing happened. Check out www.infowars.com (http://www.infowars.com)

68 Convert,

Funny you say that. I see a number of things in America right now that mirror the old Weimar Republic before Hitler stepped in. Kind of scary.

When the Consitution was written and signed, I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said " we have created the instrument that will build a great country. We have also created a path for our own destruction". Think about it this way. In ten to twenty years, India will be complaining about outsourcing. It is a shame that one cannot rely on his job being here as long as he can work. Hey, maybe other countries can outsource to us?

My company started outsourcing entry level jobs to India in the beginning of this year. It disturbed a lot of people who work here but what can you do? Here in NYC and the 'Burbs it has become so absurdly expensive to do anything that there isn't any other alternative right? The company couldn't keep moving along in the same direction, because if it didn't meet it's profit margin they'd have to close their doors and cost 400 people their jobs.

I personally think what my company is doing is an insult to the American dream. I started out here with an entry level position in 2001 and was glad I had an opportunity to learn something and start a new career. If three years ago were today I would probably be applying to McDonald's.

What bothers me most is the company will cry poverty but they would never let ONE person in upper management go in favor of hiring four entry level employees.

I believe, and these are my thoughts, look at America's Standard of Living.
Its no wonder jobs are going elsewhere. Our S/L is so high and mighty, and yes, I'm guilty of it also, we demand the high price. Most people are trying to outdo the Joneses'

I've seen other less economic countries have a very low unemployment rate due to the fact the person will take the $2/hr job to scrub the toliets, whereas, we won't do it for less than $8/hr.

Why do you think we have so many aliens? People will take min wage to do it and move their family to the Land Of Opportunity, and then we will pay for their college education.

Yep, something's gotta be done. This thread will have a long following.

Oh yeah... blaming 3rd world countries, India, China, and aliens for our economic problems is useless. They APPRECIATE the work... and it's us that are pouting not them.

If you get a chance, you may want to read the book entitled "The Enemy Within" written by Dr. Michael Savage. It will give you another perspective of the issues we have and where some of the problems may lie.

As someone mentioned earlier, foreigners DO Appreciate the work. This is a little off topic and I don't know how much truth there is to it but, I have heard it said that the typical foreign immigrant is 4 times more likely to become a millionaire than a native born US citizen!

Sure we have our problems but, ask just about anyone in a third world country if they would like to live in the US. They would probably say "in a heartbeat!" So America is STILL the country of choice and the land of opportunity!

I'm not sure about that.....

There are a bunch of countries and people that just flat hate us. They may want the opportunity to earn the wages that we make, but I really don't think that people around the world think very highly of us.

I've met people on work visa's that tell me about how most of the people back home don't like the US. The people coming in on work visa's are more than happy to earn better wages here so that they can send the money back home though.

One guy I know from Canada moved down here and is working to get his green card. He said that once he moved to the US many of his family members were mad and didn't want to talk to him anymore.

Ok...maybe I should have qualified my comment a little better. Yes, there are some third world countries where the population generally hates the U.S., no doubt about it...(like pretty much the entire middle east). And I wasn't really talking about people from industrialized nations like Canada, Great Brittain,etc. But there are still many people in other third world countries like in Mexico, Central America, Asia, etc. who would jump at the chance to come here.

I agree the US is a much better place to live than anywhere else (IMHO, not that I've been everywhere else in the world to compare).

I guess it's always baffled me why people from other countries dislike us so much. Is it our foreign policy, our success or maybe they're just wacko?

I guess my question would be; "Why SHOULDN'T companies send jobs out of country?" The American worker has been priced out of an entry (or even higher) level job. Several reasons for this. Higher wage demands, federally required mandates on businesses; for instance, 12 weeks "personal" time off! And now, certain politicians are demanding that it be PAID time off! Social Security and other taxes, health insurance, liability insurance etc. For a company to hire an entry level worker, and pay them minimum the wage ($8.00 or whatever it is now), it will cost the company about $15-$20 per hour for that worker. If the worker doesn't produce that ammount of value, why hire them? Why not go where there are workers who will produce value for their wages and associated costs? Just seems to make sense.
Contrary to popular belief, corporations are not benevolent entities that owe their employees a paycheck for life. The primary obligation of a corporation is to produce wealth for it's shareholders. These thousands (or millions) of Americans ARE the "owners of production". This is basic Capitalism.

Maybe the world is going back to the way it was in the middle ages when you had the wealthy nobility at the top by birth and the rest were poor surfs.

Consider this, a made in china brake rotor for something like a chevy cavalier costs about $10.00 at Autozone or one of the other big box stores. A whopper, fries and a coke costs about $5.00 My point is this, how do we expect to compete in a global market when the chinese can make a machined automotive part, ship it to the US, and the end consumer can buy it for $10.00, and the local fast food place, paying just above minimum wage, charges $5.00 for a "value meal"? The answer is we can't. There is no way we can compete head to head for jobs when they (use third world country of your choice) have workers who think making $.50 an hour is wealth beyond their wildest dreams, forget about health insurance, 401k's and paid time off. There will come a time when this country will no longer produce ANYTHING, because it will simply not be economically possible to remain competitive in business and pay the prevailing wage. We will have to rely entirely on the service industries for our incomes. When we, an industrial nation, no longer have any industry, we will truly be in for hard times, because we will be at the mercy of those who produce the goods we have taken for granted for generations. Our clothing, transportation, comunications, etc., all made in a foreign country. Think it can't happen? Check the label.

Schools and colleges have been teaching for many years that the US is headed towards a service only economy. It is only in recent years that we have really seen this take off, but in all reality this started many years ago.
I am drawing a blank here on the exact term I am looking for, but we are getting back to a 2 class system, slowly but surely. The rich and the poor, with a rapidly diminishing middle class. It is almost mind boggling to me that nearly anybody you talk to nowadays, from any part of the country, that you can mention something about getting layed off due to downsizing or office/business closings, and it has either happened to them or to someone close to them.
I blame all of this on 2 things...over population (I blame a lot of things on that though :D ) and old fashioned greed (on nearly everybodys part...including myself). Greed is the american way. Americans want high wages (among other perks) but want to spend the least amount for the stuff they buy. How can a company sell a product for minimal profit when they have to pay their employees top $$$ to keep them around? They can't. Americans want multiple cars, multiple TV's, killer home entertainment systems, etc etc, but you can't have everything your heart desires if you have to pay big $$$ for stuff, so people will buy foreign made stuff so they can have more more more. Its a vicious, vicious cycle. People nowadays have no restraint. Credit is too easy to come by, debt is much too easily accumulated, and so many people live above their means. They have to have the high wages to keep up with the bills. Then you have the corporate greed where bigwigs make just flat ridiculous salaries, and they only way for them to increase these salaries is by chopping labor/production costs. Shareholders aren't happy making a few $'s per share for their stock...they want more. Everybody wants more. Something has to give somewhere, and we are seeing that.
Then you have the overpopulation. This drives up the cost of everything...simple supply and demand. Look at the change is real estate and housing prices in the last 10 years. You want to buy a house, you need the big wage to make the mortgage payment.
There is no easy answer or quick fix. I can see a major economic disaster within the next 10 years, unless something happens quick.
And you guys think you can just walk in and grab any minimum wage or low paying job you see? Hah! The competition for these jobs is as bad or worse than competition for the good jobs. Its a tough job market out there right now. Nobody wants to train a person from the ground up because there are 10 others right behind you that have experience in a related field. I actually consider myself fortunate. I had enough money saved up, and very few bills, and was able to survive without a job for 5 1/2 months. Since I was 13 years old, I have never been out of work more than 2 days...and that was by choice. Granted, my expectations are a lot higher now than they was then, and I had to lower my expectations considerably to land a decent job. Many people do not have this "luxury", but it is something everyone should think about. No job is garaunteed to last forever. It doesn't matter how good you are at what you do, or how good of a product/service you produce...the almighty dollar is the last word.

I am tired and I know I am rambling, so I'll leave it at that...for now ;)

I just read somewhere on the web last week that the three fastest growing job markets are;

1. Homeland Security and the War on Drugs.

2. Education and Education Management, and

3. Medical Mealth Care and Home Healthcare.

(Or something to this effect)....

AND not one creates any wealth AT ALL.

I also read that we are allowing something like 1.2 million aliens/year to enter into our country every year at a cost to the Tax Payer of almost $100 billion dollars/year in entitlement subsidies!!

(You notice, us poor suckers can't take advantage of the cheap labor aliens provide, but only the rich can!!)...

And that we aren't creating enough jobs to even put our Graduating Senior Highschool Classes to work full time!!

How would you go about turning the greatest country in the world for all times over into a "COLONY"?? By destroying it's values, social mores and MONEY!!

Once we get to the point where the filty rich think that they can ditch the dollar, all we will be to them is a second, and then a third rate country that they can use for a Police Force to protect their interests around the World!! remember, we do ONE thing better then any body in the whole wide world, AND that is "KICK ASS"!!!

As said earlier, the powers that be are dragging all the old hidden money that the older generation has squirriled(Sp?) away just to hold our present standard of living!! AND once that money's gone, the Grandkids won't have a chance in hell of creating the type wealth the older generation did..

I will get off my "soapbox"..

pdq67

BTW, The security thing is taking our freedoms away from us!!

Our Education thing is "Dumbing down the kids", and

The Medical thing won't cure anything, but rather try to convince us that something is wrong with us and then get us hooked on third party billing so we never realize just how much it costs and how little they actually do for us!!

I love the term they have sold everybody, "QUALITY OF LIFE" b/s!!

I would gladly pay $50,000 if I could get 20 years added to my life but that ain't gonna happen b/c Dr's aren't God!!!

But they will sure take that $50,000 convincing you...

I agree on all posts. NOW let me ask a question: How many of you "sheeple" are going to go out this November and ONCE AGAIN vote for the same traitors in one of the same 2 parties that have been doing this to our country since the mid 1930's??? (read Creature from Jekyll Island) I'll bet 90% or MORE will. I hope not though. Maybe everyone will look around them and finally realize that the velvet glove has been taken off the iron fist and it's about to come down on ALL OF US very quickly. I can only hope you do, anyway.

[ 08-08-2004, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: nothinbuttaillights ]

nothinbuttaillights,

OK guy, you opened up a "can of worms"!!

Who you going to vote for that has a "snowballs chance in h-ll" of winning AND that CAN do anything about turning our great country around??

Jesse V. didn't last all that long now did he??

Ralph Nadar is fine protecting us consumers but what's he gonna do with the rest of the problems??

Good old Al Gore really, deep down inside wants to take our cars away from us, plus his family has been bought and paid for for years by the likes of Armand Hammer and gang!! AND if you don't know who AH was, you need do do a web search!!

Talk about creating the "Evil Empire"!!!

Ted Kennedy should be serving life in prison for Mary Jo.!!!

I figure the fix is in AND it isn't going to matter who wins..

AND what's bad about it is, is that I voted for both Bush's and now I'm beginning to see that GW isn't smart enough to do ANYTHING on his own!!

The man was an irresponsible "partier" for want of a better word for most of his life AND now the powerbrokers say he can run our country??

Sure he can with them pulling the strings!!!!

How long did he take to get his own life in order much less learn about how to run the World?? What was it?, 'til 42 year old??

Give me a "f-----g" break!!!

AS is Kerry!!! Now there's a winner too.

His own military buddies are ditching him so go figure.. Check out his voting record on the military and then say to yourself if he will protect me when the next Evil Empire that they have already created by giving them Cray Computers and ICBM guidance system information on Clintons watch wants the Middle East's gasoline to run their wheels in about the year 2030 by all the predictions!!!

AND I'm afraid that I might just still be alive to see the sh-t hit the fan about then..

pdq67

Seems like we need Teddy Roosevelt back......

Let's put this one to rest before it gets ugly. graemlins/beers.gif