Went outside, beautiful day, thought I should take the 67 for a cruise. Went to start it and nothing! Since I bought the car, the generator light does go on at startup and dims but stays on during driving. I replaced the alternator and battery just after purchasing the car. I check the battery and it is strong as can be. This leads me to the starter. I did find it odd that when I try to start it I don't even get a click or anything, it is just dead. I suspect the voltage regulator is very old but could this cause the car to not even click or turn over? Could it just be a dead starter or solenoid? The wiring seems to be in good shape. Anyone's advice or input is greatly appreciated. There is nothing like an electrical problem to drive a man crazy!!!!

Thanks anyone!

Leftcoast


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'67 Camaro 327
Edelbrock intake & carb, dynomax headers & exhaust, TH350

You can test your starter if you have a remote starter switch or a good screw driver... Use a multi-meter to see if you have 12 volts at solenoid in the crank position ... I have seen the gen light stay one when guys have switched from an external voltage regulator to alternator with internal regulator ... which do you have ?

Thanks,

I have the external voltage regulator. I have not switched to the internal alt. kind. Does Sears sell Multi meters to check voltage? I could use one of those... I am going to replace the voltage regulator and check the voltage at starter. How do u use a screw driver to check like you mentioned?

thanks for your help

Leftcoast


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'67 Camaro 327
Edelbrock intake & carb, dynomax headers & exhaust, TH350

Yes, Sears or Radio Shack sell them. A good addition to your tool kit.

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Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv,355,M20,4.10's

While at Sears go ahead and get the remote starter switch also ... it will allow you to crank engine as you move around or away from the engine compartment.

The screw driver trick is simply laying a screwdriver across the + wire from battery ( at the solenoid, of course ) and contacting the switched wire ... basically completing the circuit without running thru ignition switch ... this will bump the starter. If the ignition switch is in the on position when you do this, the car may start and continue to run ... If the ignition is in the off position, the engine will bump and stop once the screwdriver is removed...Now, this does cause sparks...that's why the remote starter switch is better and safer ...with the remote switch you can stand clear and bump it...

Cool guys, thanks for the tip. I will get those items for sure.

If I don't get juice at the starter, that still doesn't tell me much, or does it? There is a little relay or something mounted underneath the external voltage regulator that is extremely rusted and old. Could that relay's rusty connections be the cause?

You guys are a great help

Leftcoast


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'67 Camaro 327
Edelbrock intake & carb, dynomax headers & exhaust, TH350

Hehehehe... this sounds all to famillar http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif The box underneath the voltage regulator is the horn relay. It could be part of your problem, however not all of it. Unless your battery is dead. My GEN light was coming on until I replaced both the horn relay and the voltage regulator. If I just did one (either one) it still came on and dimmed until I reved up the engine. I would go down to Kragen (or any other parts store) and replace both of them. I paid $35 total for both the voltage regulator and the horn relay.

I'm still concerned as to why it's not starting, but either way... it's a good place to start especially if your's is all rusted and such.

If you don't mind, could you check for a pink with a black stripe wire arround your voltage regualtor / horn relay? The guy before me had mine in a fine mess and it took me hours to figure it out, but I still have that pink with a black stripe wire and I don't know exactly where it goes. I was supecting the horn relay... but I'm not sure. And the good ole' 68 wiring diagram isn't my best friend http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

Good luck and thanks!


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Cars:
68 SS Camaro
73 Camaro -Daily Driver
Website:
http://68.dhs.org

Ohayden,

Sure, I will check that wire and see where it goes and get back to you. My horn relay is extremely rusted. The battery is fine. I haven't tried to remote start her yet (work) so I dont know if the starter solenoid is bad yet.

Thanks for the post, your input has helped a ton!

Leftcoast


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'67 Camaro 327
Edelbrock intake & carb, dynomax headers & exhaust, TH350

Pink with Black Stripe #20 gauge wire goes to the #4 terminal on the Horn Relay. This is a wire with a female spade connector that is the closest one to the two terminals with screws on them. It's part of the Key Buzzer circuit.

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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

Mark C, thanks! That's where I thought it went but here's the trick. When I hook it up, it immediately starts to "buzz". The car doors are closed and the key is not in the ignition. Also the GEN stays on even when the car is off. Now, when I put the key to start, it still buzzes until I put it to the accessory position. Any ideas to what is making it do this?

I was looking at the wiring diagram is the pink with a black strip the #20 P,DBL/B?

It also shows a #20 OR with a connection to a #14 B/W, I don't see where this hooks up nor do I have that wire. Is this a problem?



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Cars:
68 SS Camaro
73 Camaro -Daily Driver
Website:
http://68.dhs.org

Abbreviation is 20 P/B.

The 20 OR is a 20 gauge (small) Orange wire that is the 12 Volt power to the #3 terminal on the Voltage regulator from the battery. That wire is part of the cicuit that feeds the GEN light on the dash. You can jumper it to one of the terminals with a screw (both screws are mounted on a common terminal) on the horn relay regulator. The 14 Black with White stripe is the wire that runs to the Ammeter on the console. (You do have the U17 gauge option don't you) It also gets terminated on one of the terminals with a screw on the horn relay.

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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

Okay... no matter what I try the GEN light stays on even when the power is off. It initally buzzes until I go to the accessory position, then it turns off until I start and shut off the car. If I go to the accessory position and then stop, it stops buzzing. But no matter what, the GEN light stays on.

Here is a picture of the horn relay and how I hooked up the wires, it this correct?

http://68.dhs.org/horn.bmp

What voltage readings should I get from each wire?

Thanks!


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Cars:
68 SS Camaro
73 Camaro -Daily Driver
Website:
http://68.dhs.org

[This message has been edited by ohayden (edited 08-01-2001).]

The Generator light can not stay on with the key in the OFF position. The connection to the Horn relay and voltage regulator runs thru a switch in the ignition switch. Sounds like you ignition switch wiring is hosed up. Is this a stock harness or one of the Painless systems? I've heard of some people have had problems with the Painless systems on both the ignition switch and healight switch having wires swapped in the terminals at the switchs on 67 and 68 harnesses.

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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

Hmmmm... It's the stock wiring harness (not the painless), but I've seen a few other areas where one of the previous owners had wires on wrong. This will be the 3rd area that I've found. So, this wouldn't shock me. I'll look at my ignition tonight. Arrgh, and I thought I had all my eletrical problems solved http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif Once I track this one down, I should be done. Thanks for the help Mark C! I'll post tonight my findings.

Leftcoast07, how's it going?



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Cars:
68 SS Camaro
73 Camaro -Daily Driver
Website:
http://68.dhs.org

Hey leftcoast,

I know this may be too easy a fix, but
I had a similar problem once, car would not start, completely dead, turned out to be the positive battery cable. Cable looked fine, but something was wrong inside of the insulation. A friend told me to use a multi-meter from battery to starter with key in ON position to check it out. Replaced the cable and problem was solved.
Just another idea, hope this helps.

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1969 red Z/28
1971 red Nova SS

Well Mark C, I think I have a wiring problem with my ignition! You may have nailed this one. I look from the underside of the dash and it looks wacky, but the problem is I can't really get to it. I was able to unscrew the bezel by turning to the left but once it almost off, it get's stuck. Is there a trick to removing it? I tried with the key in at different positions. I even saw the tiny hole and stuck a .5 allen wrench in to see if there was a catch lever, but nothing worked.

Any clues on how I can get this off?

Also, I noticed on your 69 wiring diagram that your voltage regulator had a ground wiring going to it. Well my 68 has this terminal but I don't see a wire for it. Should I be concerned about it?

We are very close and if I can get that ignition off, I can rewire it correctly.

Thanks!

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Cars:
68 SS Camaro
73 Camaro -Daily Driver
Website:
http://68.dhs.org

While I'm at it, any trick to get the cigarette lighter off? I need to clean up the retainer. -Thanks!

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Cars:
68 SS Camaro
73 Camaro -Daily Driver
Website:
http://68.dhs.org

I've got a 69 so I can't help you with the getting the switches off the dash part. There is a bezel wrench that fits into the notches on the side of the bezels, but I don't know it you need to release something or if it is just rusty threads at the end. Need someone whos done it on a 67/68.

The 69 voltage regulator does have a ground lead on it, how necessary it is is open to debate, it is grounded by the bolts that hold it to the radiator support. My lead is actually sandwiched between the leg of the voltage regulator and the support. My wiring diagrams for 67 or 68's don't show a separate ground lead.



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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

Thanks Redtie,

This problem sucks. I hate messin with wiring, which is weird because my dad was an electrician...lol......

You know, it just may be that. I will check it out. I do remember my positive cable not lookin so good....

Leftcoast


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'67 Camaro 327
Edelbrock intake & carb, dynomax headers & exhaust, TH350

One some ignitions with the small "hole" as you describe it, you have to rotate the switch ( counter clockwise I believe ) as you press a paper clip or some other small item into the hole ...

To get the ingition switch out you need to turn the key to the ACC and insert a paperclip into the little hole. Then turn the key a little more counter-clockwise. With the chrome bezel loose the key and cylinder will come out. To remove the lighter...you unscrew the part outside the dash from the part inside the dash. I put my arm under the dash and grabbed the part under the dash and unscrewed it.

I had a problem with my GEN light staying on, but it was only when the car was running. I replaced all of the wiring harnesses. I replaced the front wiring harness (all of the engine compartment) and the light was still on. When I replaced the wiring under the dash I cleaned all the ground connections and plug leads with a dremel & wire wheel. And the light now stays off. So, my problem was under the dash.

Hope this helps.

------------------------------------------

Steve

68 "Pro-Touring" Ragtop SS

Thanks 68.camaro, I got them both off! Now I'm trying to figure out which wire goes where on this ignition switch and the wiring diagram doesn't tell much. I guess it was supposed to have a connector on it, but mine are free floating terminals. Any one have a clue which wire goes where?

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Cars:
68 SS Camaro
73 Camaro -Daily Driver
Website:
http://68.dhs.org

Problem solved........


Thanks guys for all the help. Your posts were instrumental.

After replacing the volt. regulator, horn relay, and cleaning up grounds and wiring, I noticed the positive cable at the battery wasn't making good contact. The starter was fine it turns out (I could remote start her). There were also a couple questionable grounds in the wiring. She turned over first try, stronger than before it seems....

thanks again!

Leftcoast


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'67 Camaro 327
Edelbrock intake & carb, dynomax headers & exhaust, TH350