I just bought this 69 Camaro about a week ago(Calif Car), real RS/SS w/ matching engine number. Total of the body resto... beautiful inside and out. Got it home and it dies electrically after driving it for about an hour.

Here is what I know and have tried tus far:

1. I am not a car mechanic (but have good friends who are and have helped).
2. The volt meter will read 12volts on startup but, after running it for about an hour... dies to about 7 or 8 volts killing the car.
3. We replaced the battery with the same result.
4. We replaced the alternator (twice)... each time with the same result.
5. As a test, while the car was running, we disconnected the positive wire from the battery... this always resulted in the car shutting down.
6. Based on #5 above, we ran a test wire from the plus side of the battery directly to the coil (supplying the distributor). Then, with that attached, we disconnected the positive battery lead and the car did not shutdown, voila... it remained running.
But, I did not run it like this (this was just a test).

That's where it stands right now. I've ordered the electrical schematics for the RS/SS. I just found this site and would love feedback from your expertise.

Thanks much!

//Joe C.//

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Try replacing your voltage regulator.

Test the regulator by putting a voltmeter on your battery. Run the engine at about 1500 RPM and disconnect the 4 wire connector on the voltage regulator. This should cause your voltage to decrease when disconnected and increase when reconnected. Should be at least 13.5 Volts.

Make sure its not your alternator by connecting a jumper wire directly from the positive terminal of your battery to the F (field) terminal on your alternator. Leave the voltmeter connected and the car running at 1500 RPM. If the alternator is good the voltmeter will read 15 volts or greater. Don't leave the jumper on for any length of time as you are forcing the alternator to put out it's maximum current by doing this. Only leave it connected long enough to see if voltage increases.



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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

The regulator is built into the alternator. We replaced the alternator twice, same result.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark C:
Try replacing your voltage regulator.

Test the regulator by putting a voltmeter on your battery. Run the engine at about 1500 RPM and disconnect the 4 wire connector on the voltage regulator. This should cause your voltage to decrease when disconnected and increase when reconnected. Should be at least 13.5 Volts.

Make sure its not your alternator by connecting a jumper wire directly from the positive terminal of your battery to the F (field) terminal on your alternator. Leave the voltmeter connected and the car running at 1500 RPM. If the alternator is good the voltmeter will read 15 volts or greater. Don't leave the jumper on for any length of time as you are forcing the alternator to put out it's maximum current by doing this. Only leave it connected long enough to see if voltage increases.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not in an original 69 system. Who modified your charging system? What does the wiring connections look like on your alternator. Where do the wires go?


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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

There are electrical mods (a corny Dukes-of-Hazrds horn installed, a 10 disk CD player in truck and other possible mods to the electrical system). I should receive the OEM electrical schematic today or tomorrow in the mail but in addition, looks like I'll be doing some ohming out and re-drawing of the electrical layout.

During our trouble shooting efforts, would you agree that since adding the temporary test wire attached between the positive battery terminal and the coil that goes to the distributer the problem of the car shutting down when the battery terminal was removed while it was running was eliminated... wouldn't this indicate that the electrical problem draining the system would be between the positive battery terminal and the coil? So that would give me an isolated area to try to ohm out with a meter? What do you think? Do you think it is the ignition switch?

Look for the presence of the external voltage regulator. You are obviously running off the battery until the battery gets too weak to sustain the engine ... The alternators you have installed are not supplying useable current ( if any at all ) . Alternator with int regulator or no regulator will often look the same cosmetically ... You need to determine if you car is still wired for external regulator or wiring altered for internal regulator ... It should be simple enough to visibly determine presence and hook-up of external regulator ... check these things ... don't assume

Its not the ignition switch it the wiring or misapplication of the alternator.

If your alternator is not wired up properly then it is not providing any power to the car. Once you disconnect the battery you have removed power from the ignition coil and the car dies, same as shutting it off. The only thing you did by directly powering the coil from the battery is to keep the ignition system powered. The car would run even if you took the key out of the ignition in this configuration.

Depending on the type of alternator you have I think (I don't have a one wire alternator setup)that you still need a jumper wire between the big red cable on the alternator to the field terminal on the back (side) of the alternator to make it work right.

It sounds like the field of the alternator does not get any power and thus the alternator doesn't produce any power.

What do the terminals (if there are any besides the battery connection) look like on the back of the alternator:

Like this: | |
or this: --

You don't have to wait for a wiring diagram:

Go to this link:
http://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum10/HTML/000647.html
look for the links under my signature for all the wiring diagrams for a 69.


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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

Sorry.. I meant to say that we ran a wire directly from the output of the "Alternator" directly to the coil then, removed the + battery terminal and the car stayed running. Wouldn't that configuration prove the alternator and wiring is OK and that there is a problem between the output of the alternator and that coil?

It means the alternator can put out at least 9 volts at some marginal current value. Just enough to power the ignition circuit, but not enough to run all the other electronics in the car like brake lights, fan, radio etc. These other loads over power the alternator output and eventually drag down the battery voltage so not even the small amount of power needed by the ignition system is left, and the car dies.

Where are you measuring the 12 volts? At the battery, or at the alternator output terminal?

Do you have all of the chassis ground straps installed, there are 4 braided straps, and one that is connected to the negative battery terminal to a screw on the fender. Two of the braided straps run from the valve covers, one each side, to the fire wall, one runs from the fire wall to the subframe under the heater box, and one runs from the sub frame to the inner fenderwell under the battery tray.

Without all of these, especially the one from the negative post to the fender, the battery will always die eventually.

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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

We measured the 12 volts at the alternator output terminal.

We did not look too closely at the ground straps, although we checked continuity between the (-) terminal and chasis (it read 0 ohms, as it should).

Thanks!

OK, I'm a layman so please have patience...
(and thanks for all the help so far) http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

I think I have a 2 wire type alternator. It has a Blue cable and a White together going to a connector that looks like this: | |
and a large Red cable next to it, going to a screw type connector.

Are you saying to make jumper wire between that big red cable on the alternator to where??? What is the "field-terminal" that you mention on the back (side) of the alternator?

Also, what does the regulator look like? If this alternator has an internal regulator, I want to be sure to eliminate the external regulator. Would you happen to have a pic of it? and where should it be located (assuming it's still in the same place)?

Thanks... I think we're getting closer?

//Joe C.//

If you have an alternator with the | | terminal on the back of the alternator body then that is an externally regulated alternator and you will need a voltage regulator. On the side of the opening where those terminals are will be the letters F and R. the blue wire goes to the F terminal. This is the "field" terminal. This is where you want to jumper 12 volts to.

This is the circuit that causes a magnetic field to be created in the stator (the stationary part) of the alternator windings. Power (voltage and current) is "Generated" in the spinning center (rotor) portion of the generator and then passes out thru the commutator (slotted brass sections just inside the rear bearing). The power generated is AC so it is rectified by the diode trio inside the alternator to DC. It then leaves the alternator thru the red screw post terminal on the back of the alternator. By controlling the voltage to the field terminal the amount of power generated can be controlled. That is the function of the voltage regulator. It senses voltage at the output of the generator wire and either increases or decreases voltage to the field terminal to raise or lower the voltage produced by the alternator. That is alternator theory in a nutshell.

The voltage regulator is located on the driver side radiator support right next to the radiator, near the top edge of the support. It is a black box about 3" square with a flat four terminal connector on the bottom edge. terminals are usually labeled from left (fender side)to right (radiator side) F, 2, 3, 4. The other rectangular box near the voltage regulator is the horn relay.


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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

This may not be correct, but my friend had this same exact problem on his '93 Cobra (I know, I know), but the problem was the same. It turned out that something was crossed when someone put a sound system in it. When he removed a certain fuse, the problem stopped.

Garrett M.
68 Convertible

The saga continues... In summary

1. I've replaced the alternator (2 wire, externally regulated)
2. I've replaced the regulator (it was jumpered as you described)...

Result: still same problem (the car is running off the battery, it shutsdown when the + battery terminal is removed).

I just received the schematics (and will go out and buy a little multi-meter in the morning).

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Problem resolved!!! The field wire was hard wired into it's connector, backwards. Flipped it and voila... Thanks so much for all of your expertise!!

You'll probably be hearing from me again.

//Joe C.//
69Divine- True RS/SS, Show&Go!! http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif