hey thought i would ask i am building a new garage, 30x50 and was wondering if anyone out there plumbed there garage with ahrd line for there air supply?? also what is best to use , pvc, and or black iron??? please let me know, also is it best to pitch it a bit so moisture will go to end where you can have a collector??? i was thinking pvc but not sure, does anyone have a diagram for this?? i think i remember seeing a hot rod tc segment on running hard line in your garage for your air supply, thanks for the help\
Jake

Use iron pipes if possible. Have the pipes up high, and it should be angled to allow moisture to be caught in a seperator if you have one. Go to a university library, and you can find tons of info on this. More than you ever thought there was.

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1969 Base Camaro
Vortec 355, Perf. RPM, Demon Carb., TH-400
All sheetmetal is NOS GM
See my webpage at: http://www.geocities.com/compuboy007/

thanks i will check into that and yes i will pitch them so the moisture will go to the seperators, i saw on hotrod tv they used pvc, but anyway thanks
jake

I used 1/2 pipe and installed 2 water traps with drain valves. Pics are at the link.
jamie
69lemans (http://hobbystage.net/camaro/69lemans/)

hey 69lemans what tire sizes do you have on your car??? looks verynice,, did you spray it?? anyways thanks for the pics, oh ya does the moisture go to the traps when you run the pipes high and come straight down to seperator?? thanks alot
Jake

A book I have "Kustom Painting Secrets" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0964135833/qid=1033097586/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-5780247-9834456?v=glance&n=507846) by Jon Kosmoski's (creator of the famous House of Kolor), strongly recommends galvanized pipe with Gasoila sealer and strongly discourages the use of plastic (has had plastic pipes blow).

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David
Camaro - '68 327 Coupe (http://makoshark2.com/djunod/cars/68camaro.htm), '86 Z-28 IROC 305 TPI (http://makoshark2.com/djunod/cars/86iroc.htm)
Corvette - '73 Mako Shark II (http://makoshark2.com/djunod/), '82 Cross-fire (http://makoshark2.com/djunod/cars/82vette.htm), '01 Coupe (http://makoshark2.com/djunod/cars/01vette.htm)

1/2 or 3/4" schedule 40 cast iron pipe is a very good choice. Black pipe that's had a corrossion treatment is called a "pickeled" pipe, close to galvanized but without the flaking problems. Lemans 69 has the right idea,extend and terminate your pipe below the airline fitting and put a gate valve on it so you can drain the water that will collect here. Install a separator before the fittings, cost about $85. Most also have a filter in them to "final" filter for use. Keeping your shop at a constant temperature is just as important.

I have over 400 feet of 1" schedule 40 pvc pipe in my shop, 10 years of use at 175 lbs air pressure.
I did my two car garage 20 yrs ago, 125 psi, it's 175 now that I connected it to my shop compressor.

Our farm shop has 200' of same, at 175 psi, 20 years old.

I have two friends with 50'X100' shops that are done in the same type/size pipe, probably 300' each, they are 15 yrs old and at 175 psi.

Schedule 40 is rated at 450 psi, the glue is important for strength of the joints, as the joints are weaker than the pipe.
Heat can weaken the pipe too, I live in a coastal area and it doesn't get to 100 degrees but a couple of days a year.

I used the two step primer/grey glue proccess. My buddies used the clear one step glue.

I ran my pipe overhead in the roof perlins wtih drop pipes down the walls, so most of the pipe is 20' above my head, only the drops are near anyone.

Smaller dia pipe is even higher pressure rating.

I hear all the time how bad PVC is for compressed air, and I certainly don't want to be around one if it blows...

But I've seen it work with no problems at all in my area. Maybe if I'd read all the warnings before having good results, I'd have used something else, but my experience runs contrary to the warnings.

PVC has a great insulating quality that reduces heat transfer, the pipe is inert and doesn't give off rust or metal flakes.

It is easy to upsize the pipe to 1" and gain air storage capacity if you have a smallish air tank.
I left a foot of drop below the wall outlet fitting, and put a draincock on it to catch moisture.
If you put a ball valve on each air fitting and close off the unused fittings, the air will stay in the system with out bleeding down overnight.

The quick couplers all leak very slightly, if an air hose is plugged in to one, it leaks even more. If you only have one or two couplers, it isn't a big deal, but in a shop with 10 or 20, it can leak down a lot.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327 original owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer

I use the 1" PVC tubing in our shop too.

That Hod Rod TV episode that showed how-to with PVC, the next week they did a disclaimer, saying that they had heard from a lot of people citing the dangers.

If the PVC was to get damaged by running something into it, it could shatter in many sharp pieces.

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Don~ ZZ430DropTop (http://hometown.aol.com/zz430droptop67rs)
~~~~and~~~~
70 RS (http://hometown.aol.com/performancespecs)
67 RS/SS Convertible, 70 RS

How about inserting the PVC inside a larger metal pipe or installing a metal shield?

I didn't like the idea of corrosion with the metal pipe, but I fear the explosion of the PVC (pozzi has been lucky).

Personally, I'm still using flexible hose...

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David
Camaro - '68 327 Coupe (http://makoshark2.com/djunod/cars/68camaro.htm), '86 Z-28 IROC 305 TPI (http://makoshark2.com/djunod/cars/86iroc.htm)
Corvette - '73 Mako Shark II (http://makoshark2.com/djunod/), '82 Cross-fire (http://makoshark2.com/djunod/cars/82vette.htm), '01 Coupe (http://makoshark2.com/djunod/cars/01vette.htm)

I too took the cheap route and used rubber.

At Harbor Freight tools they had a sale on 50' Goodyear hose with 1/4" NPT ends for $10. It does need a condensation drain. Routing the rubber line couldn't be easier, but it is a bit more dangerous than some type of hard-line.

Five years and mucho summer heat with no problems, but I religiously turn off the main ball valve and power every night. I placed a pilot light on the switchbox that sticks out like a sore thumb when I forget to turn it off.

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The Red Beast http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

[This message has been edited by CarlC (edited 09-26-2002).]

BBCamaro, the pics in the garage have 235/60/15's all around, they're the tires off my wife's car. I spray tomorrow. Answer to last ? is yes. The main pic has 215/65/15's on front with 255/60/15's on the back.
jamie

[This message has been edited by 69lemans (edited 09-27-2002).]

Anything wrong with 1/2 or 3/4 inch copper with soldered joints. Every shop in my area uses this. I had it in my previous shop and it works great. I can see the larger diameter pipe if you want to run multiple tools at once, but for a home shop I just went with half inch pipe.

I haven't plumbed my new shop yet (need to build car and get shop emptied before crackfill & paint), so I'm curious if there's any reason to change my plan.

Thanks
Robb

PS - I always shut off the compressor when not in the shop. If a line bursts, like the plastic coil line hanging over the bench, I don't want the compressor to run steady unitl it overheats!

hey thanks alot for the replies i think i will go with 3/4 black iron pipe as i work for myself, doing auto repair and collision work and want it so you could run a couple tools at once , i have a 7.5 hp 2 stage compressor so i have enough air and want to do it once, so i should route the pipe up high and have drop downs where i want my air to be??? also should i run pipe just to regulator?? or run it a bit by it and have a shutoff i can drain once in a awhile?? thanks alot, oh ya is copper alright?? what is the pressure rating on copper??
Jake

[This message has been edited by BBCamaro (edited 09-27-2002).]

david, so the only real problem with pvc is if something smacks it when it shatters you could have trouble??? i like the idea of plastic but probaly by the time you buy sched 40 it is close to black iron which won't shatter, but let me know on how you set yours up?? did you run it at a normal height and just pitch it so the water runs to the end where you can have a seperator then just t in regulators where you want an air supply, thanks alot
Jake

i used all copper ..3/4"..wont rust out...been great for 10 years now..........

z11 , what pressure do you run ?? 175psi also do you know what copper is good for??? thanks alot
jake

I came across this website while looking at different types of paint guns. It has 'Shop Air Piping Layout Diagrams' to give you ideas on how to design it.
http://www.sharpe1.com/dr-pipe.htm

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1969 Z/28 - owned since 1971 - garaged since mid 1980s - in the process of restoring it
dark green met (57) w/dark green standard interior - doesn't have 302 in it anymore

photos at http://cards.webshots.com/cp-27764341-dySU-album/41109476JiiVUW

69 Camaro wiring diagrams at http://cards.webshots.com/cp-27764341-dySU-album/50477528WnwIuY

In my opinion the copper is preferred. It does not rust out, is easy to work with,(try cutting and threading black iron to make an odd length), holds up under extreme use. Every major building uses copper tubing to run every pneumatic device, that's a lot of air volume at 140psi for years. I have replaced more compressors than tubing. As for the non-shattering of iron, ask any plumber how to remove BI, they whack it with a big hammer. The stuff breaks very easily.

I use 3/4" copper Type L (L is thicker than M, M works fine also) with sweated joint. Its more expensive than black steel pipe, but sweating fittings is a whole lot faster and easier than threading pipe. I have my water trap 30' away from the compressor to allow for as much condensation as possible. Definitely slope your piping run so condensation runs toward your trap or back to the compressor tank.

I agree-- we re-plumbed our shop a few years ago with copper, no more rust in the lines like when the iron pipes were getting old.

If you are doing a lot of air tool, run a loop, so the system acts as it's own reservoir. This way you don't get much pressure drop the further from the compressor while a tool is running, since it can pull from both sides of the loop. -Dan

hey 68sixspeed great idea on run a loop, have you tried this?? or i guess you have seen problems with no enough air when 2 or more tools are running especially at the further one away?? thanks guys for the ideas, i cannot wait to get walls up should be next week just trying to plan ahead so i can get materials ready, thanks, also what is the max psi you can safely run in the copper, also being a bodyshop/garage should i run 1" main trunk line and t off into 3/4 inch down to each of my regulators, and drains
jake

[This message has been edited by BBCamaro (edited 09-27-2002).]

[This message has been edited by BBCamaro (edited 09-27-2002).]

The first one I did, I angled the main 1.5" pipe from compressor up to about two feet from the top of the roof peak. I then angled it from there to the top of the roof peak at the far end of the shop so any condensation drains back into the compressor tank.

I put in T fittings off the main pipe pointing upward to go to the drop lines on each side of the building, I used a T fitting for the air chuck, all my fittings are about 4.5 foot height off the floor to allow a table or such to be put right up against the wall and not hit the pipe. I used a threaded T fitting there that was 1" pipe, so I can increase the fitting there to a larger size or plumb in something special if I need to.

I left a drop below the outlet fitting and put in a petcock for a drain. A ball valve would be easier to turn.
With 1" pipe and a 10 hp compressor I don't run out of air! The loop is a nice idea, especially if the lines are small. I would not go smaller than 3/4".

Add a piece of pipe to your compressor drain outlet, the water can collect in the pipe instead of rusting your compressor tank. the fatter the drain pipe, the better.

My compressor has an automatic drain that dumps water when it shuts off.

Provide some kind of flex between the compressor and lines. Use a hose or flex pipe, or use a very long piece of pipe coming straight up from the compressor outlet to allow some flex from compressor vibrations.

I'll bet I'm one of the fiew who has the proper rubber pads under the compressor feet and it is bolted down. It is important not to bolt down firmly, the tank can be cracked by that, I have studs in the concrete and nuts on the studs are 1/8" above the compressor feet. The earthquakes we have is why it's really needed here.

The compressor is outside my shop on a concrete pad in a lean-to shed. so I barely hear it when it is running.
Don't EVER put a compressor up in the rafters above an office! I've seen that done and the whole building vibrates!

I'm not recomending the PVC as it's supposed to be so bad, BUT the way I have it protected and above waist height it would be very hard to accidentally hit it.
There is schedule 80 pipe that is even stronger than what I used. I should have used that or better yet, steel pipe, for the drops.
I don't have ANY rust, and very very little moisture in my system. The PVC does not cool the air and condense moisture like metal pipe.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327 original owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 09-27-2002).]

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 09-27-2002).]

thanks david, as for main trunk size, i have a 7.5 hp ingersol compressor, and will have no more than 2-3 tools at one time running off the air, would 1" main trunk line with 3/4 drops to each regulator/drain?? would that provide me with enough air or should i use 1" everywere, or 1 1/4 with 1 inch down to regulators throughout garage?? thanks alot!! also i think i will run a loop with the main trunk line as i think that would be great idea for when running multiple tools, thanks again
Jake

being a plumber for the past 25 years...i recomend using k-type copper,i've installed miles of high pressure co2 lines in motorola's,and also in hospitals....should hold up tp 200lb-300lb easy...david

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1997 brickyard festival-
pace car no.1
1965 chevelle malibu
1964 chevelle s.s. 4-sp
1969 z28-x77 302

being a plumber for the past 25 years...i recomend using k-type copper,i've installed miles of high pressure co2 lines in motorola's,and also in hospitals....should hold up tp 200lb-300lb easy...david

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1997 brickyard festival-
pace car no.1
1965 chevelle malibu
1964 chevelle s.s. 4-sp
1969 z28-x77 302

A 3/4" loop sounds good.
I ran a lot of 1" at my home garage to increase the air storage and found I got much less water out of the farthest outlet from the compressor.
So if you can run the pipe a ways before you get to where you use it the most, that will produce less water.
I plug in a water trap when using a lot of air. You might plumb in one if you use one outlet a lot.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327 original owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer

so run a complete 3/4 loop with 3/4 drop downs where i want my air supplies to be throughout garage??? or do like when you plumb a house for water run a bigger main line and t off down a size to where you want a source of air that way.? thanks alot
Jake

I would run the trunk line in either 1" or 1-1/4" iron (depending on the developed length), and do the drop downs in 1/2". The larger line size will keep the volume up. Try to keep the drop down lengths to 12' or less.
PVC is pressure rated at 73* F. When it gets colder, the pressure rating is reduced. If you're garage is constantly heated, it might not be a problem. I considered using PVC, but decided against it as it sometimes gets quite chilly around here (-20*), and my garage is only heated when I'm in there.
The problem with copper is not the burst pressure of the pipe, but with the soldered joints comming apart. If you hard solder it, it should be okay.

If you use black pipe you can have rust problems even with water traps. All industrial instrument air is run through galvanized pipe for that reason. In a shop I see no reason not to run pvc just get sched 40 and keep it away from heat or errant drivers. It sure is easier to do than black pipe.

I ran a 3/4" loop with 1/2" drops wherever I wanted them- then put a 12" piece of air hose (one of those "whip" hoses they sell for impact wrenches) and then mounted an air manifold at the end of the drop (mounted to the wall) with a few quick disconnects.(all copper). This way you can push and pull and whatever on the air hoses, and never actually be pulling on the main air supply loop above. Also, Dave is right- pitch the loop either to the compressor or to a corner, and have a ball valve to drain the water out of the system when needed. I ended up pitching to a corner opposite the compressor, then ran a drop to a ball valve, so all the water collects in that line, and it's easy to blow out everything from the compressor end of the loop out this drop. Hope it helps. -Dan

One more tip- when you "T" off the loop-- face the T for the drop pointing up, then go over and down, so you get an upside down "U". This way if a little water or junk is settled in the loop, it stays at the bottom and doesn't fill every drop up with water/junk. -Dan

I have worked in two seperate shops with PVC and both shops had regular blowouts. One pipe let go and embeded glass from a near by light in the side of a car that had been painted one day earlier. If you go with the plastic pipe be sure and have spare glue, primer, fittings ect. My advise is to use the iron pipe and be done with it.

thanks sixspeed, i think i will do mine in m copper and use 1 inch main trunk and 3/4 drop downs, and will pitch it to a corner and have a ball valve to drain when needed. as far as when making the loop, i figured i would be at the height i went around garage go around and then come back into compressor, by coming straight down, so there for water will run to the corner i pitch it to and will come strait down to compressor, this would drain to compressor, right??i have everything figured other than were the loop comes back into the short flex line off compressor( which it will be about 12" long and i will have either a t off the flex or have a t on the tank and run 2 flex lines , one to either side of the loop, then i could pitch flex line just a bit so anything would go into compressor or to corner i pitch line to, thanks alot, does that make sense to anybody??
Jake