I'm having a problem with my wipers on my '69 Camaro. When I first turn them on, they drop down aprox. 2 inches before starting back up. I took off the cowl, removed the arm from the housing and made certain that I have aligned the housing marks with the shaft marks and that doesn't seem to help. They don't go down first now, but when I turn them off, they don't go completely to the bottom. They stop exactly where I turn them off. I've done a search and can't seem to find any answers. Please help. Thanks! Bill

Have you had them apart or changed the motor?

Could be the motor is worn out? Or if you have them apart or changd motors, you may have the arms our of phase with the motor.

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2002 Pontiac TA WS6 Ram Air LS1, 6sp Hurst, TCS, CD Changer - Pewter "Last of the Breed" #3124 of only 12,516 WS6 built
2001 GMC SLT Extended Cab Z71 - Polo Green

How do I get the arms back in phase with the motor or how do I determine if this could be the problem. I did just install the used motor.

If that doesn't work, how about just removing the wiper arms, then turning on the switch and back off. Put the wiper arms back on where they should be when in the parked position, and try it again. Maybe this will set a good starting point.


------------------
Joe
WCA Member
1969 Wallet Crusher
- HwyStar@Rochester.rr.com

HwyStar's Garage! (http://www.geocities.com/hwystarjoe/index.html)

I took off the wiper arms and made certain that the housing marks aligned with the shaft marks. I turned the wipers on and then back off again. I then Put the arms back on and they still went down 2 inches first before starting upward. I then took the shaft off and turned it 180 degrees. Now the the arms don't go down first, but they'll stop wherever I turn off the switch. They're not returning to neutral (or down) position. Any other suggestions. It's driving me nuts!!

Sounds like motor problems. It sounds like your wipers act the same way as if you turned off the key. They stay where they last were. Wiper motors park themselves if you turn off the switch no matter where they were.
I haven't been insde many of them but there may be a cam and a switch inside that controls the park/off function.

I guess I'll have to start looking for a motor. By the way does anyone know whether or not the wiper linkage is the same for a '69 as for a '67 or '68? Thanks for all the help. Bill

There's one more thing to check before you go replacing the motor or linkages. It's been brought up a couple times in the forums before.

You said you just put the motor back on. One of the attachment points is also a GROUND for the motor to the firewall. Or there's a raised bump very near one of the mounting points that makes contact with the firewall. Both have to be free of paint at the point of contact. If not, all kinds of wacky schtuff will happen. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

Take a look.

I'll check that grounding point today. Thanks again! Bill

Very good point HSJ. A wiper motor operates by switching ground to it through the switch. When you turn off the switch it needs a ground to complete its last cycle and park. It gets that through the frame. Otherwise it stops right where it was. It may go down before up when you turn it on again because it has't completed its last cycle.
Last thought I have before picking on the motor again is: You do have a small ground strap from battery (-) to the right inside fender? This is the body ground that the motor needs.

I just removed the wiper motor and there is no contact point where the motor contacts the firewall. There are 3 rubber grommets where the motor bolts on and an oval rubber seal where the motor goes through the firewall. The metal on the motor does not and cannot touch the metal on the firewall with this setup. I ran a ground wire from the motor to a ground on the body and it didn't help anyway. I thought maybe the yellow wire was supposed to go on the bottom of the front terminal, so I changed it with no success. Any other suggestions? Here's a picture of my wiring setup on the motor. I highlighted the colors on the wires in this picture. There is yellow, light blue, dark blue and black. Does mine seem to be wired correctly? Thanks! Bill
P.S. I do have a small ground strap from battery (+) Not (-) to the right inside fender?

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212278579196488769176.jpg



[This message has been edited by redlines4us (edited 12-27-2002).]

Are you sure you have the correct motor? While many will look alike, they have differences.

If you got one from another Camaro, only 68 and 69 and 70-78 non-concealed wipers will work. But many other years and models will interchange but they can't be the concealed wiper type. The list is long or I would type it here but some cars up to 1980 will fit. The fact that they were dropping down 2 inches make me think you have a wiper motor for concealed wipers and you don't have these.

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2002 Pontiac TA WS6 Ram Air LS1, 6sp Hurst, TCS, CD Changer - Pewter "Last of the Breed" #3124 of only 12,516 WS6 built
2001 GMC SLT Extended Cab Z71 - Polo Green


[This message has been edited by elcamino (edited 12-28-2002).]

The grounding on the wiper is from a grounding tab that contacts one of the three bolts that connect through the grommets. If your tab is missing, that could be the source. However, elcamino's comments sound reasonable. Even if you did not replace the wiper motor, maybe someone else did.

It is possible that this is the wrong motor.
This may sound like a dumb question but why would a concealed wiper motor go down 2 inches when I initially turn on the wipers before starting the upward swing? I thought a concealed motor would drop the 2 extra inches at the end of the cycle to conceal the wipers. I don't see any grounding tab. I'll take the motor back off and check again. I may just order a new motor and see if that helps. I just wanted to check all other options before spending the money on a new motor. Thanks! Bill

I just looked at my 69 and the yellow and blue wires are opposite of what your photo shows. Now I have not had my car together for 20 years but the photos i have taken are opposite of yours. The motors might be different. Mine is marked
5045572
Type E Delco Products
12 V Rochester N. Y.

Also the metal strap that others are referring to is located at the upper right hand mounting hole looking at the motor from the front of the car. The metal strap appears to an integral part of the grommet.
Yours might be there but painted over.

I can email you a photo of my motor if you want.

Hope this helps

My wiring matches just as the pic above shows and the wipers work properly... I don't have functioning washers yet though. Bill please double check that ground strap you spoke of;

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>P.S. I do have a small ground strap from battery (+) Not (-) to the right inside fender? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our cars are negative ground and connecting the positive terminal to the fender isn't advised. The positive should go to a junction block mounted on the core support I believe. Maybe it's on your fender...

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...Dennis
"The '69 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/ww.jpg), the '96 (http://www.camaroslimited.com/graphics/memcars/96ss.jpg) our local club (http://camaroslimited.com/)"
and the "daily driver" (http://chevelles.com/showroom/DjD/dsc00016.jpg)

I just pulled my motor back off and there is positively no metal strap or anything protruding at any of the 3 mounting holes. With the rubber grommets in place here is no way for my motor to contact the firewall at all (metal to metal). Here's the info from my motor assembly:
5045441
Type E
12V
Delco Products
Rochester N.Y. USA
Is this the correct wiper motor?


P.S. I do have a red wire from the positive battery terminal to the fender right above the battery. It does look like some sort of junction (small plastic block with a bolt stud). The red wire goes to that junction
and hooks up to that single terminal. There is also another red wire running from that terminal to a wiring harness across the radiator core support over to the voltage regulator and horn relay. I can't actually see where it hooks up. There is a pigtail hooked on the negative terminal that hooks to nothing. What's that for?

Redline that NEGATIVE little wire that is hanging needs to be bolted to the edge of your fender as mentioned in other posts. That ground the battery to your whole body insuring ground for elec. equipment like your wipers. There should be a small sheetmetal screw within reach of that wire, make sure the end is clean and that the screw is not rusted. Screw that wire on the fender and try the wipers again. If it still doesnt work right, then tie a ground wire to your wiper motor and the firewall so the ground is complete and try again. I think the ground is your problem. Let us know.


------------------
....Jim aka Click
69RS 350/255 LM1, Balanced, TRW forged pistons, .30 over, TH-350 auto.,
Dover White, Blue Vinyl top, F&R spoilers, close ratio ps, am/fm, 3.08 Posi.
A/C, fold down rear seat, Pwr Disk Brakes, Cowl Induction, Endura Bumper
My RS www.brainerd.net/~knudsen/69RS (http://www.brainerd.net/~knudsen/69RS)

I just hooked up the negative wire to the body and it didn't change anything. I also ran a jumper wire from the wiper motor housing to a ground and it didn't make any difference either. Still have the same problem. When I align the marks on the wiper arm with the marks on the housing, the arms drop down 2 inches on the initial startup. If I change it around 180 degrees, the wipers still stop wherever they are when I turn off the switch. Also when the wipers are on the off position, I can grab a wiper blade and move it manually. Is this common?
I think I'll try another motor. Thanks! Bill

My yellow and blue wires are also opposite the photo on the first page. I have both fully functional wipers and washer pump. The rear connector has the yellow and blk w/yellow tracer wire on the top terminal, the light blue one is on the bottom, and there is a separate black wire on the lower rear terminal, just like in the picture.

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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
My 69 L48 - 350/300HP Engine (http://www.townisp.com/~markcanning/camaro/transparent%20air%20cleaner3.jpg)

I switched the yellow and blue wires twice and it didn't change a thing. This is real frustrating!! I've tried every combination I can think of with no success. I've eliminated just about everything and I still tend to think the motor has internal problems so I'll get a new one and hopefully I can get these things working properly. Thanks for everyones help! Bill

Type E 5045441 is the correct type of motor, 2sp non-depressed park.

Try another motorm this one may be worn out.

Important.

Make sure the wipers are in the park position before removing the motor. Mark sure the wiper motor is in the park position prior to installation.


------------------
2002 Pontiac TA WS6 Ram Air LS1, 6sp Hurst, TCS, CD Changer - Pewter "Last of the Breed" #3124 of only 12,516 WS6 built
2001 GMC SLT Extended Cab Z71 - Polo Green

[This message has been edited by elcamino (edited 12-28-2002).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Make sure the wipers are in the park position before removing the motor. Make sure the wiper motor is in the park position prior to installation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My wipers won't go into the park position, so how can I get them into the park position before removing the motor and also how can I make sure the motor is in the park position before I install it? The motor I have now (with the wipers disconnected) just spins clockwise when I turn on the switch. When I turn off the switch, it just stops spinning.
Maybe I just don't get it!

[This message has been edited by redlines4us (edited 12-28-2002).]

I think "Bubba" has been into your wiring and your motor as well (the original motor is 5045572, Type E, stamped on the motor end plate and shown on the silver mylar decal); you have the wrong motor, and someone has jimmied with the wiring to get it to work. My (original) motor is wired as Mark described, and both wipers and washers work fine. You need the correct motor.

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JohnZ
CRG
'69 Z28 Fathom Green

I just went to Auto Zone and they looked up the correct motor number for a '69 Camaro and they had one in stock. I brought it home and it does the very same thing as the old one. Also, there is no attachment point or raised bump on the new one either for grounding. Is there a difference in the wiper transmission assemblies (arms inside the cowl) from '67, '68 and '69? Maybe I've got the wrong assemblies. Seems like the dash switch is working fine. It has low and high speeds and when I push the washer button, it starts the wipers on low. They just won't return to the park position. As I said when I hook up the arms to match the points on the motor, they go down 2 inches first and when I turn them 180 degrees they don't go down first but they will stop exactly where they are when I turn off the switch. Maybe this will help. When I hooked up the new motor or old motor for the first time and turned on the ignition switch, the wipers moved a little even with my switch off. I'm thinking about getting a bottle of Rain-X and forgetting about wipers. (Just Kidding!)

P.S. Also I forgot to add, in the box with the new motor was a troubleshooting guide and is says the following:
Problem: Blades stop anywhere when switch is turned off.
Solution: Open in circuit between switch and motor, defective switch, defective wiper motor.

I think the motor and switch are good, so what is an open circuit between the switch and motor?

[This message has been edited by redlines4us (edited 12-28-2002).]

Did the new motor come with a crank arm ball already attached? If not maybe yours is on backwards. It's susposed to be at 3:00 as you are installing it (pointed toward the driver side). That would be 9:00 when you are looking directly at it.

Mark or John - If I read correctly on the connector closest to the firewall it's yellow on top but on the connection away from the firewall it's yellow on the bottom?

[This message has been edited by DjD (edited 12-28-2002).]

My new motor came with the shaft that has a flat side on the top and bottom that my Windshield Motor Output Arm (Pg.125 Ricks)
attaches to. That arm can only go on 2 ways.
Either aligned with the marks on the motor or 180 degrees off and I've tried it both ways.

P.S. I tried the yellow wire on the bottom on the outside connector and it worked the same. That connection is for the washers, correct?

If the arms and blades were put on when the were 180 off I could see it pulling and pushing at the wrong time. I think you have eliminated everything but proper assembly at this point.

Start with the blades off, mount the crank arm and ball so it's toward the driver side and run the motor to be sure it parks in that position. Hook things back up, attach the arms and see what happens.

Well here's the latest. I unhooked everything under the cowl except I left the
small 3" crank arm hooked to the motor.
I have determined that my motor is going to the park position every time I turn off the wiper switch but it's parking at the 11:00 position (when sitting in the drivers seat) instead of the 9:00 position. When I turn on the wipers they go downward until it reaches the 9:00 position then they start upward. How can I make the wipers park in the 9:00 position instead of the 11:00 position. If I reposition the crank arm 180 degrees, it will park in the 5:00 position. That's not right either. The crank arm only goes onto the shaft 2 different ways.
Also, when sitting in the drivers seat my motor turns counter clockwise. Is that the correct way?
Here's something else. I turn on the ignition switch and turn on the wiper switch (let it run) and then turn the wiper switch back to off. It parks in the 11:00 position. I then turn the ignition switch to off.

I then turn the ignition switch back on with the wiper switch off, I reach in the cowl and move the mechanism by hand and when I get it to a certain point, the motor starts and puts them back into the parked (11:00) position with the wiper switch off.
That tells me there's power to the wipers with the switch off and the ignition on. That can't be right. HELP!!!!

Would that be an "open circuit between the switch and the motor" as stated in the troubleshooting paper that came with the new motor?



[This message has been edited by redlines4us (edited 12-29-2002).]

Then there has got to be something amiss with the wiper transmission assembly, the parts under the cowl. If you removerd them from the car, then they are installed incorrectly or something is broken.

Can you explain why you changed the motor in the first place? Are you doing a restoration and you took everything apart and installed it have this problem? Did you take waiper arms parts from another car and install them on this car? Have you replaced the wiper switch? Maybe there is a short in the switch? You should not have this problem if everything is good and the parts are installed correctly, especially the wiper transmissions assembly under the cowl. Something is just not right and its hard figure out without hands on. Have you got a sevice manual.

The reason for making sure the motor and wipers are in the park position when removing them is for this reason, it can be a puzzle to get them back to where they work right.

I think at this point try to find another car to look at and see whats the different on your car or find a service manual.



[This message has been edited by elcamino (edited 12-29-2002).]

I think I may have just found my problem. I think I have the wrong crank arm. I took mine off and compared it to the picture in Ricks Catalog and the squared edges where it mounts on the shaft are completely different on mine. Mine sits at a different degree.

The one I have on my '69 is actually from a '67 Camaro. Darn, I hate when that happens!! Sound right to you guys? I hope this is the answer and thank all of you very much for the help. Now all I have to do is buy the right one (Hopefully)!!


[This message has been edited by redlines4us (edited 12-29-2002).]

Bingo

1968 and 1969 is ok but 1967 will not fit. Both 1968 and 1969 Camaro and Firebird the same, no other years or model will fit.

[This message has been edited by elcamino (edited 12-29-2002).]

Hey! Sounds like a winner to me! Good catch.

Just to make sure, when you finally tied the NEG battery terminal to the fender, you disconnected the POS connection there right?


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Joe
WCA Member
1969 Wallet Crusher
- HwyStar@Rochester.rr.com

HwyStar's Garage! (http://www.geocities.com/hwystarjoe/index.html)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HwyStarJoe:
Hey! Sounds like a winner to me! Good catch.

Just to make sure, when you finally tied the NEG battery terminal to the fender, you disconnected the POS connection there right?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joe he verified the positive lead went to a terminal block not to the actual fender... The telco equipment I use to work on was pos ground, talk about confusing!!

Attaboy http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

This is sometimes like the CSI tv show, look at all the clues, evaluate, recreate and read up. Then bingo, answer.


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....Jim aka Click
69RS 350/255 LM1, Balanced, TRW forged pistons, .30 over, TH-350 auto.,
Dover White, Blue Vinyl top, F&R spoilers, close ratio ps, am/fm, 3.08 Posi.
A/C, fold down rear seat, Pwr Disk Brakes, Cowl Induction, Endura Bumper
My RS www.brainerd.net/~knudsen/69RS (http://www.brainerd.net/~knudsen/69RS)

I'd first of all like to thank everyone for the help. That's what makes this site so great!! I didn't get much sleep last night thinking about this problem. It's funny how something like that can aggrivate you that bad.
Yes I did hook the negative lead to the fender and the positive just junctions on the fender with an insulator. I'll be ordering a new wiper crank arm tomorrow and hopefully that will do the trick. Thanks again! Bill

(yer right man.... musta blinked when I was reading that post)

Good luck Bill!



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Joe
WCA Member
1969 Wallet Crusher
- HwyStar@Rochester.rr.com

HwyStar's Garage! (http://www.geocities.com/hwystarjoe/index.html)

Ok, here is what is in my (CHEVROLET PARTS INTERCHANGE MANUAL) for a 68-69 Camaro with two-speed wiper motor. Canceled and Non-canceled wipers are not interchangeable. Canceled wipers become available on 68 models. They were standard on the high-trim models like the Malibu, and optional on the lower trim models. Cancealed wipers differed from the non-concealed type in that the resting postion of the blades was underneath the rear edge of the hood. So for the Camaro the wiper motor will have to be from a non-cancealing car. The wiper motors from these cars will fit. This is how it is in the book. Motor Type: Two-speed non-cancealed wipers, Part Number: 4918442, Usage: 68-72 Chevelle; 68-72 Pontiac LeMans; 68-72 Olds Cutlass without shaft lever control; 68-72 Buick Skylark without shaft lever control; 68-74 Camaro; 68-74 Nova; 70-72 Monte Carlo; 70-74 Pontiac Firebird; 71-74 Vega; 71-74 Pontiac Ventura ll; 73-74 Olds Omega; 73-74 Buick Apollo. Again this is what is in my book, but I have a 72 Monte Carlo parts car and it is not the same as my 69 Camaro, and also had a 70 Monte Carlo and it was also different. Both of my Monte Carlo's had the cancealed type.

Hope this will help,
Jerry

I just reread my post from last night and seen that I mispelled some words. All (cancel words should be conceal)& (cancealed should be concealed).

Sorry for the mistakes,
Jerry

Don't sweat the small stuff Jerry... http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif

No biggy man. Ya know, with the way MicroCrap likes to take over every nook and cranny of your software, you'd think that they could include just ONE feature of their office suite and put Spell Check in Internet Explorer. Does Netscape have Spell Check?

Nope Joe, thats what I use mainly and its not there either. http://www.camaros.net/forum/frown.gif
I hope we all can forgive our mis-spells cuz we have atol of them in our tpying here.
http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif


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.... Jim aka Click :)
69RS 350/255 LM1, Balanced, TRW forged pistons, .30 over, TH-350 auto.,
Dover White, Blue Vinyl top, F&R spoilers, close ratio ps, am/fm, 3.08 Posi.
A/C, fold down rear seat, Pwr Disk Brakes, Cowl Induction, Endura Bumper
My RS www.brainerd.net/~knudsen/69RS (http://www.brainerd.net/~knudsen/69RS)

This thread is blowing the dust off of an old issue I once had with my wiper motor. I replaced the wiper motor many many years ago with a used one from the boneyard. I believe it was from a Vega or some other car that used the same type of motor. I had SOME kind of issues but the specifics are a little fuzzy. The only thing that does stick in my mind was I had a problem similar to this one and it was solved by using the original crank arm from the old Camaro wiper motor instead of the Vega piece. The Vega arm was ever so slightly a different length or configuration in some way. Give that a try and report back if it helps. I know it worked for me! It WAS a strange problem.

-Mark.

I'll bet that's what fixes his problem.
{spell check....OK}

http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif

The correct arm sould be here in a couple of days. I'll report back then. Thanks again! Bill

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<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>My Retro '69 Z28 Camaro - http://hobbystage.net/camaro/redlines4us/
<LI>My Email 1969camaro@charter.net
[/list]

I received the correct '69 crank arm today, installed it and everything works great. Funny how something so simple can be such a pain to find. Thanks to everyone for the help! Bill

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<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>My Retro '69 Z28 Camaro - http://hobbystage.net/camaro/redlines4us/
<LI>My Email 1969camaro@charter.net
[/list]