http://members.aol.com/ingrampba/rs1.jpg


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39405&item=2442292681


:(

Note where the stripes end on the trunk lid.

I love the vibration-free exhaust hanger.

Man, that poor car must have been a stunt car or something. Talk about massive abuse.

I want to cry whenever I see a Camaro that looks like that. The bigger problem with this one is that he has no title and no VIN!!! By federal and most state law, it is illegal to even possess that car unless you are a salvage yard and you received it in that condition after it was recovered by the police and even then the only thing that you can do is sell the parts.

Is that one of those high dollar headlight washer pumps?

I noticed the car is located in the Florida Keys, I wonder if someone attempted to drive this car up from Cuba like that truck and the Coast Guard sank it as well. Man is that poor car rusted and abused.

Agree, without a VIN and title no real point in trying to restore it.

Guys name is Nate. I sent him info on the location of the partial vin numbers. He was Happy!
Notice the two piece rotor sitting on the frame.
Anyway its neat .
Indy pace car single disc brake. LoL
Rotor (http://members.aol.com/ingrampba/rs3.jpg)

Originally posted by William:
Note where the stripes end on the trunk lid. What's wrong with the stripes? If the car came with a spoiler and stripes from the factory (which Pace cars did) then there shouldn't be stripes beneath where the spoiler was installed.

I think that was williams point...

I agree with DJD. I took William's reply as an FYI for those who wanted to know what original paint stripes would have looked like. They looked just like that on my Pacer. That's a real shame for that Pacer. I e-mailed the seller to see if the trim tag was still there, but he hasn't e-mailed back yet. I bet it's on another convertible already.

LOL!

This guys getting all kinds of email from us! I did the same thing.
:cool:

If that car is restorable, I'd like to see a picture of one that isn't!!! :rolleyes:

KZ1000ltd - WOW you must be a lightweight! tongue.gif LOL That's actually an easy restoration, relatively speaking. I've seen and own worse. If the rockers on a 'vert are good, than it's good to go! I'll post a picture here later on of one I'm going to attempt. It makes that one look like a show car. :D


HwyStarJoe - If you get an e-mail back from him can you forward it to me, I'll do the same for you.

William's comment made me notice the pistripe on the door. I have seen pace car replicas before that had the decals mounted and the pinstripe was stopped at the rear of the front fender.

Just wondering about how the car got the rest of the pinstripe? Is that standard production? Even possible? :confused:

Were the decals shipped loose for dealer install?

-Mark.

I believe it was up to the dealer and or owner to place the decal pver the pinstripe or remove it first... They came in the trunk from the factory.

I have a stupid question. You have all seen the picture. Presume that the car has a title and is genuine. How much do you think that the car would bring on E-bay as is ?

Also notice that the Camaro fender emblem slants up and to the right. I've seen them straight, up and to the right, and down and to the right. This is the first unrestored one I've seen that was not straight.

Originally posted by Unreal:
Also notice that the Camaro fender emblem slants up and to the right. I've seen them straight, up and to the right, and down and to the right. This is the first unrestored one I've seen that was not straight. With the big crunch just above and to the right of the Camaro script I wouldn't lend any credance to the way the emblem is placed...

Originally posted by restoman:
I have a stupid question. You have all seen the picture. Presume that the car has a title and is genuine. How much do you think that the car would bring on E-bay as is ? It wouldn't shock me to see it go to $5K or a bit more.

That would be an easy rsto compared to what we have to deal with here in the RUSTBELT graemlins/thumbsup.gif

even down here in texas i have had people
PAY ME to build plane jane first gen's that were worse than that of course they were not plan when i got through graemlins/waving.gif

is that a bullet hole in the door?

If you think that one is bad.......Check this pace car out. It does still have the 12bolt and the TTag, but thats it. The bidding went up to 2850.00 and the guy had the reserve HIGHER!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2441426433
http://www.kidsintofun.com/69/97_1.jpg

That $h*t will buff off :D

Kyvox, I agree with you. It looks like it still has the elusive headlight washer solenoid.
Did everyone notice how the radiator support was cut? It looks like someone did that to ease the removal of the drivetrain.
As for the pinstripes, all Z11s had them. If the customer wanted the decals applied to the doors, the dealer would either buff them off the door or install them over the stripe.

69-Z11Pacer (Bill), you've got mail.

That pace car is very restorable. you rustfree state people (some)just don't know how to fix rust cause you don't usually have to deal with that. I have seen rustfree cars sold as rough, i would gladly fix dents and body damage or rust everywhere. That second pace car is junk, pull it with a tow dolly and hit a bump and watch the back half go in the ditch behind you as your still driving. :eek: Roger

WOW :eek:

That is a great car to document the restoration on :cool:

Originally posted by bretcopsey:
I noticed the car is located in the Florida Keys, I wonder if someone attempted to drive this car up from Cuba like that truck and the Coast Guard sank it as well. Man is that poor car rusted and abused.

Agree, without a VIN and title no real point in trying to restore it. Is there a bridge I haven't heard about?? ;)

Actually it's not in the Keys. It's up North on the west coast of Fla. just below the panhandle.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?size=big&mapdata=yNJu1Eg45ffVubrCt4nOz5NjMaDbxSiQFU8hnCq9tq Jv1%2f%2fTanY0xJ4btjYsCziyWjvBEg4o%2bLBkj%2fVPec5u 4WsRl3arMD%2bItWmPQ9tKBGlLMdUh%2fY giZN4Ir%2btfMVF0W7OjvobC6v8n28ntT7mKbE9XJSfSlLb68% 2fz7Gulo8V266oUwdvxJgKdQolE17gRhV%2bOafiDONBKJBcmg T7hEKAmdFE0OXbyW91PBPZm27Rbu0ZVD09NOr%2bNQs%2fYU4w qKRwJnm56G3S4pAr%2ff8dnO0y2kPb gOwqCVOOkzhfu2jPQ%3d (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?size=big&mapdata=yNJu1Eg45ffVubrCt4nOz5NjMaDbxSiQFU8hnCq9tq Jv1%2f%2fTanY0xJ4btjYsCziyWjvBEg4o%2bLBkj%2fVPec5u 4WsRl3arMD%2bItWmPQ9tKBGlLMdUh%2fYgiZN4Ir%2btfMVF0 W7OjvobC6v8n28ntT7mKbE9XJSfSlLb68%2fz7Gulo8V266oUw dvxJgKdQolE17gRhV%2bOafiDONBKJBcmgT7hEKAmdFE0OXbyW 91PBPZm27Rbu0ZVD09NOr%2bNQs%2fYU4wqKRwJnm56G3S4pAr %2ff8dnO0y2kPbgOwqCVOOkzhfu2jPQ%3d)

Ok, so I made a bad assumption with "Key" in the name...

BPOS check this thread

truck boat (http://havanajournal.com/culture_comments/A735_0_3_0_C/)

graemlins/thumbsup.gif

"Necessity is the mother of invention..."

Thanks for the link - I hadn't heard that story. graemlins/beers.gif

Originally posted by BPOS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bretcopsey:
I noticed the car is located in the Florida Keys, I wonder if someone attempted to drive this car up from Cuba like that truck and the Coast Guard sank it as well. Man is that poor car rusted and abused.

Agree, without a VIN and title no real point in trying to restore it. Is there a bridge I haven't heard about?? ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Actually- Time stopped for Cuba in 1959- You won't find any newer american cars there...

Kinda cool though if they ever do open trade back up with them... Collectors will be swarming over that place and the taxi drivers will be caching in their 57 chevy taxies-

there are so many of them in pretty good shape that have been kept running all these years because there was nothing else!

At least this SS396 has documentation...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2442010093&category=39405

:eek: :eek: :eek:

The car this original post was about ended at $2125.00 with no title, VIN plate, or Trim tag. Can you believe that?

(Seller says he found the VIN...yeah the partial one under the heater fan....he says the dash one was cut out and is gone. Hope no one tries to retitle that body. I bet the Trim tag and VIN are running around on some car right now.)

For reference, this body's partial VIN is:

9N627342 which would make the VIN 124679N627342

http://www.easternmusclecars.com/images/adv/z11bodynovintag.JPG

Does any one know if this car is in the registry? If it is and it's current(running or restored), then it's a rebody.

This auction could really put someone (more likely 2 or 3 people) in a real pickle.

I feel bad if someone owns a pacecar with this vin (124679N627342).

[ 11-16-2003, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: 69-Z11Pacer ]

Originally posted by 69-Z11Pacer:
:eek: :eek: :eek:

T
I feel bad if someone owns a pacecar with this vin (124679N627342). If there is someone with it,He had BETTER win that auction.

So the "sag-a" ends with the high bidder of $2125. I have a note from the seller I thought that I would share.....

He confused me with a bidder on the car. But here is what he said to,"What is the new owner plannning to do with it?"

Matt,
I am not sure what his plans are. He says he has another one with a bad frame so there is no telling what will happen to this one. As for the trim tag/vin combo, if it showed up on another car (doubtful), it would be easy to show that this car had the number originally. Anyway, no hard feelings about the retraction. When I found out that the trim tag was that important, I almost ended the auction anyway. Then, I found the vin and really wanted to end it so that I could get the title. Oh well, I got more than I paid for it so I can part with it. Its done nothing but sit on jack stands in the shop since I got it so maybe someone else will do something with it.
Nate

They said it should be ready by spring..........got the wipers working......

http://www.8ballracing.com/window_wipers.gif

Hello,
I had the pace car that caused quite a bit of discussion. It hasn't been through the Florida Straits from Cuba and it is a true Z11. It has been interesting selling it because several people tried to tell me that I had a fake and others said that it wasn't restorable. Its not and now the new owner plans on using this one and another not usable pace car body to make one good one. Hopefully he'll send me back pics of the finished product.

Hi Ratburn11,

First, Welcome to Camaros.net! I'm guessing you were contacted by someone here to check out this thread.

Most of the the guys here (including myself) are pretty hardcore camaro lovers / restorers. Occasionally, topics like this hit a sore note around here.

I believe that your car is (was) in fact a Z11. It appears to have all the correct items, and was built during the correct time frame.

I'm impressed at the amount of money you got for that car.

What's odd (and illegal) is that the VIN was removed. It's not unlawful to remove (or even sell) the trim tag, but it is illegal to remove or sell the VIN ... or a car with out one.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the trim tag and VIN number have more than likely been re-used on another body. Somewhere, someone owns a pace car with the serial number 124679N627342, and was more than likely told it was an original pace car.

This is where a large problem comes in. If you, or someone else tries to re-title 124679N627342, and one already exists...hmmmm...there could be alot of explaining to do.

Essentially, and although I think the car IS restorable, it is nothing any more than a plain-jane convertible, an RS at best.

It's identity is stolen, and therefore should not be restored as 124679N627342.

If you were to restore it as a clone, and have the state issue another VIN, that would be possible I guess, but you'd have to get through the police inspection.

Please don't take this reply as a bashing of you or your car, but just as an FYI.

69 Z11 Pacer

I am guilty. I thought that nate would enjoy what was said in this thread so I sent him the link. I also helped him with the vin. Not looking for anything I like most 1st gen owners care about the historical importance of these cars as well as the Hunt!

I do not know if this is where to post this info but.....
He also told me that he has a ton of 2nd Gen parts. I will include the email.

Sorry!! I've gotten so many emails that I got yours confused. You are right and I greatly appreciate your help. It was hutch_j that retracted. Anyway, if you need any second generation parts let me know. I've got a ton of stuff.
Nate

I am a new member to the fourm and enjoy it very much, so if I go the wrong way I will probally drive for hours instead of asking for directions. lol
graemlins/waving.gif
Matt
X77 D80 enduro
X11 350/300 RS/SS rag
Plain Jane

8Ball,

I'm glad you gave Nate (Ratburn11) the link to the site. This site is for everyone who is 'in to' Camaros. I am glad to be a member here, and am very appreciative to the guys who own, run, maintain and moderate the site....it rules! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I just felt compelled to let him know what was up, and that he wasn't being bashed, just that there could be consequences of the sale.

I have a particular interest in the Pace Cars, but that's just me.

I think that it is a shame that someone didn't try to restore that car in the first place or that it was never fixed after it was wrecked.

Don't feel bad about telling someone about this site, as that is the way alot of us got here...myself included.

I like this site alot, and spend alot of hours reading here. And although I've only met one member in person (KevinW) I feel like all of these guys are friends.

I didn't take it as bashing, simply misunderstanding. As a proud Camaro owner myself, three Z-28s at the moment, I'm glad that there are more Camaro nuts like myself out there. My first car was a 71 Z 28, second was a 79 Z 28. Anyway, I think what may have happened here is that the car was wrecked and the vin was removed by an insurance company. I bought this car from a man who used to own a junk yard. This car may have come from there since it was parted out anyway. It would seem odd to me that the vin would be removed from the car but the trim plate was there in 2001. My friend looked at the car in 1997 to purchase and the vin was gone then. If it was taken to put on another then it would have been taken then, right?

I am going to chime in one more time. I have been in law enforcement for more than 30 years and am an expert at vehicle theft and retagging. I also happen to be an avid Camaro fan and owner. That being said, an insurance company will never remove a VIN plate. The salvage yard buys the wreck from the insurance company and has to obtain a salvage title from the state motor vehicle department. Some states do not require the salvage title for wrecks over 10 years old. The salvage yard can sell the car to a rebuilder or part it out. He is required to maintatin the title for every vehicle in the yard. If he sells the car he has to provide the title. If he removes the VIN he has violated a Federal law as well as a state law in most states. Selling a motor vehicle without a negotiable title or a public VIN plate that matches the title is felony. Purchasing a motor vehicle without a title or a public VIN plate is a felony. Possession of a motor vehicle without public VIN plate is a felony. This is serious stuff and someone could do time in a state or federal penitentary. I know this first hand because I have put people there for this exact same thing. I hope like hell I scaring someone. I understand the rarity of the vehicle but the only place it should legally go is to the crusher.

From what I gather, it was common practice for the insurance companies to remove the vin to prevent a "totalled" vehicle from being returned to the road. That practice has since fallen by the wayside in light of professional auto theft rings. Now, salvage yards do have to maintain records on vehicles brought in and held on their lots. Anyway, opinions seem to vary.

"Purchasing a motor vehicle without a title or a public VIN plate is a felony."


69X11SS,
I have a question based on the above quote?

What about states that do not provide a title for autos that are older than 1975 or 1977? I know that Alabama does not issue a title and I think Georgia is the same way. If you buy an older car all that is required is a bill of sale. I think that would make titling an older car in another state that was bought in AL/GA a real PIA. So how is it done legally?

Thanks

I bought 2 cars with no titles, just bill of sales. A 67 Chevy II SS from Indiana. A 35 Ford 2 door slantback sedan from Iowa. All that was needed was to go to the BMV and get the appropriate forms, have a police inspection and send in two pictures of the cars to the BMV at the state level. Two weeks later I had clear titles to both of these cars graemlins/thumbsup.gif .

NY has no titles on cars prior to early seventies.(forget which year) I took the old reg. and a VIN tracing from my 68 to DMV and got a PA title no problem.