I don't know if this has been covered here, but today I was just sitting here thinking about the many cars I've owned in my past and I couldn't help but to think about all the cars I had when I lived in Germany (9 cars in 5 years). Almost all the cars I had over there were Manual 5 speeds and were a total blast to drive (especially on the AutoBahn). Here in the states almost every car on the road today are all automatics. If I had a preference, I would much rather have a car with a manual trans than one without (especially a 1st gen Camaro). Which type would YOU rather have and why?

[ 01-13-2004, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: garfield ]

I just love manual transmissions! We ran Muncies and super T-10's for years until we discovered the Liberty Pro-shift rings. Since then all of the transmissions we have used have had them installed(even in our street driven hot rods). Today I run a Doug Nash "face tooth" 4-speed box and Dad runs a pro-shifted Richmond 5-speed. I do not have anything against automatics. There is just something about a manual that makes a car more fun to drive.
Chris

There's isn't a greater feeling shifting a manual, graemlins/thumbsup.gif except for sex. :D But, then the defeated emotion :( comes when a missed shift happens. :rolleyes:

At the track, give me a loose convertor and an automatic. graemlins/beers.gif

Manual is much more fun... except when you're stuck in stop and go traffic on I-95 for about 15 miles around Fredericksburg and then again once you get into the mixing bowl!

Love them both! The auto when I am up and down the hill streets of San Francisco and the manual about town and feeling good. There is a true feeling of coolnes when going through the gears on a Sunday afternoon and having heads turn.

For years the only fun car I had was my 69 Camaro with 4sp. It's a blast to drive when your just enjoying the thrill of driving. But, with manual steering and manual trans it sucks going through a drive-thru and trying to eat while you drive. Now, I have a 70 Chevelle with an automatic and power steering that's fun to drive when your not focused on the driving experience.

well, im just lazy as sh*t, so i preferre the automatic redface.gif .

The fact that there is a third pedal (clutch) while i have only 2 feet makes me tired allready.

YES, i brake with my left foot!

The beauty of an automatic that i also needonly 1 arm/hand, instead of 2, so i can use my other hand for scratching and supporting my head :D

I also prerfer an automatic..... but only because almost all cars here are 5speed manuals, so an automatic is a nice change.

Chris, enlighten me on the liberty pro shift rings. I have a Doug nash street five speed (same as the richmond) and really need to improve the shift consistancy. I`m running a hurst v gate shifter and under full acceleration at high rpm`s (drag racing) I cannot count on it to shift without missing a gear. Does the transmission need to be sent in to do this or can parts just be purchased and replaced? Are street manners affected, downshifting, noise, etc? Thanks, Brent

I currently have an auto in the 69, and when I'm stuck in traffic it's great. But when I'm just crusin around, I wish I had a stick...nothin like going thru the gears, and jumpin' on it a little :D . I guess I'll have to buy another camaro with a 4 speed, and use both... :D ...Mike

Liberty Pro Shift rings are a drag strip only deal, they have absolutely no syncromesh action for low speed street type driving or downshifting. They are designed for full throttle power shifting ( still using the clutch). Basically they are a ring that has huge dogteeth machined into it and this ring is pressed on to the gear after the stock dogteeth are machined off. It is also Tig welded in places around the diameter of the ring usually between the Dog teeth. I think there are about 8 or 9 dog teeth if i remember. Also the outer syncro sleeve has 2 teeth machined out for every 1 tooth remaining. I used to use Hemi Liberty boxes in my S/C Vega. The only Downfall to them is if you burr a slider due to lack of coordination between hand and foot when Full Throttle Power Shifting, the Trans must be taken apart imeadiately so that it does not drag the slider through the inner hub causing a problem with the other gear on that particular slider. Can you say spare trans? I used to have 4 so that when i went to a National Event, they could easily be changed if you felt a slider was getting burred up. As the car got faster over the years this became too unreliable for me, so i switched to a Lenco. Expensive but BulletProof.
Concering your Problem about power shifting , maybe make sure you have the correct design disc, you want the type with NO Marcel between the linings, thats because it causes the linings to grow with heat and does not release clean.
Not sure if the face type trans are streetable, maybe Chris will know. Hope all this helps.

I agree with Everett. For every day use ,I would go with the 4 speed if I had the chose. When I go to the strip, it would be auto all the way. :D

I chose an automatic for two reasons:

1 - Atlanta traffic stinks
2 - So my wife doesn't eat up the gears of manual

Bluesdog

rszmjt, thanks for the info. Sounds like what I need for racing. Now just need to figure out whether I could deal with it on the street. As far as a clutch, I am running a Ram bronze metallic disk with no marcel with an adjustable long pressure plate. Air gap is set at .060" and seems to work well. Wish I could afford a Lenco, pulling levers has gotta be fun!! Brent

I would say it depends on the car. Pro Touring/road race car would have to be a manual.

Drag car an automatic is the way to go.

What about a full manual valve body automatic? You still have to shift but there is no clutch. Trust me it can be work when stuck in traffic or on a cruise. I couldn't imagine dealing with a clutch in those situations (with a heavy duty pressure plate).

Is that why you stick guys walk funny? One leg bigger than the other?, LOL.

Both have their up's and downs just depend on what the car will be used for (the most). I like both.

Brent, Was reading your post- Make sure your long style pressure plate does not have internal rollers, as that will cause the clutch to not disengage cleanly at higher rpm. The easiest way to tell is shake it- if it rattles it has rollers, get rid of them they are for a non shifting application. Hope this helps. Yes it is fun pulling the levers especially having 5 reverse gears. LOL. Actually Lenco does offer a street type trans that is also good for race track use- i believe it is called a ST1200, it is quite a bit cheaper, it has aluminum cases instead of Mag. and it uses a normal GM bellhousing etc. As far as standards and auto,s i am not dead yet and i still have a left leg to push in the pedal, I,d rather eat worms than drive a auto. LOL

By far, my favorite has to be a bench seat 4-spd, you can't beat the fun factor of shifting a 302 at 6500 rpm,

gotta be a 4-speed. graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Manual with OD. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by 72muchfun:
By far, my favorite has to be a bench seat 4-spd, you can't beat the fun factor of shifting a 302 at 6500 rpm, Let's hope we don't see too many bench seat 4 speed 302's out there.. ;) also if you're not taking the 302 to at least 7500 your missing what it's all about... :D

Before I chase you away, I'm just having a bit of fun with what you said. I don't think you could get a bench seat 4 speed 1st gen. Not with a 302, that's for sure...

Haha, ya, the 302 is going into a '71 elco, couldn't find a decent 69 for a half reasonable price, best we found was a rusted out hulk for $5000. 7500? I wish, the elco isn't up and running yet, my only experience with the 302 running (other than on the floor) was with a guy who lives near by, he took me for a ride, got me hooked, 4.11 gears, man, that thing hauled. I only like the bench seat for one long blond haired reason, and it just gets that much closer on a bench seat.

A dog :D ;) J/K
Now I wish I have a bench seated car :D

Brent, RSZMJT is correct. The pro-shift rings are race only......unless you are like me and do not mind giving up streetability for performance.
Learning to drive one on the street was a challange, but it can be done(I will not blow smoke. It is never "easy"). 99% of my driving is street driving. Keep in mind that I live in a rural community and I do not have to put up with stop-n-go traffic with each passing city block.
Something else I wanted to pass along. Even though EVERYONE tells me I can not do this, I up-shift without the clutch. When the car is accelerating, I put pressure on the shift lever in the direction of the next gear, blip the throttle, and she is in the next gear(inline shifter, and solid motor mounts). Frankly the shift takes place so fast, it is like blinking. There is no gear crunching, or undue wear on the tranny. Don't believe me? I invite you to come for a ride! :D
I have been street driving, and clutchless shifting this type of trans with zero failure since 1993.
I bolt the slicks on, and shift it the same at the track.
Chris

Originally posted by 72muchfun:
Haha, ya, the 302 is going into a '71 elco, couldn't find a decent 69 for a half reasonable price, best we found was a rusted out hulk for $5000. 7500? I wish, the elco isn't up and running yet, my only experience with the 302 running (other than on the floor) was with a guy who lives near by, he took me for a ride, got me hooked, 4.11 gears, man, that thing hauled. I only like the bench seat for one long blond haired reason, and it just gets that much closer on a bench seat. graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/beers.gif

Automatic, the ladies transmission. :D

rszmjt, My pressure plate has no rollers. Chris, I do alot of stop and go driving. I`m thinking about just Proshifting the 3-4 gears as these are the only one`s I have a problem with. I`ll give Liberty a call and see what they have to say. Thanks, Brent

I used to drive only manual transmission cars. I loved shifting, having that kind of control, especially in the twisties. A real blast. (I'm a motorcyclist as well, and I remember when Honda brought out an automatic trans motorcycle...just didn't work!)
Well, a few years back a San Francisco cab driver decided to change my lifestyle a bit by running me down on my Ducati. So, I'm left with a bad left knee and a Harley! Actually, at my age now, I really enjoy the Harley, but the left knee makes it hard to enjoy a manual transmission car for any length of time. I can drive one OK, but if I get stuck on the freeway at rush hour, the suicide lane takes on a whole new meaning for me.
So now I have automatics in my cars and thats OK.

Manual shift all the way. Growing up as a teenager in Atlanta in the late 60's and early 70's everyone I knew had a 4 speed car. Nothing like traffic light to traffic light spurts up and down Piedmont or Peachtree Rd. I'll tell you what I don't like though and that's an inline 4 speed shifter. I ripped the nail right off my middle finger slamming second gear in a friends 67 Camaro when it grabbed the loop that holds the small t-handle rod on the front of the shifter. Ouch!!!

Manual gets my vote. I just like them is why!!
graemlins/thumbsup.gif