lower radiator hose spring. [Archive] - Team Camaro Tech

: lower radiator hose spring.


dawg
Mar 5th, 05, 12:47 PM
I bought new radiator hoses for my baby.
the lower hose doesnt have a spring in it?
where can I find a place to purchase the spring?
(spring keeps the hose from collapsing on itself)

67ssrs350
Mar 5th, 05, 04:22 PM
try a napa store, thats where i found mine... sonny

Gary L
Mar 5th, 05, 06:05 PM
Are the springs a factory thing or after-market thing?

dawg
Mar 6th, 05, 02:40 AM
I bought the hose at NAPA?
they didnt know anything about a spring lol
its supposed to be a factory thing.
keeps the lower hose from collapsing on itself from the pump suction

Gary L
Mar 6th, 05, 06:33 AM
I bought a GM hose from a GM dealer. No spring. I still don't know if it is an add-on.

RickD
Mar 6th, 05, 08:58 AM
I experienced the same thing. I was told the new hoses don't need them. However, I took the spring out of my old one and put it in the new hose smile.gif

JohnZ
Mar 6th, 05, 04:49 PM
Newly-manufactured hoses don't need the spring due to better materials and processes; the old hoses softened with heat and aging and needed the spring to maintain their shape under suction at high rpm. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

dawg
Mar 7th, 05, 12:38 AM
well I installed a high volume aluminum pump so I still might need it.
Ah home depot got stainless springs in the plumbing dept!

HOTRODSRJ
Mar 7th, 05, 01:06 AM
I agree with JohnZ. The newer hoses are reinforced with belts and are pretty rigid. Springs are a thing of the past.

On the dyno we test the best high volume/flow pumps such as Stewart's Stage II and III (probably the best highflow competition pump) pumps with off the shelf hoses with no problems. The hoses won't come close to collapsing.

wayner
Mar 7th, 05, 03:30 AM
Some of the newer hoses have the spring inside the material of the hose, its not visible, but if you cut the hose, you will find it.

Gary Dorion
Mar 7th, 05, 05:26 PM
My advice is to save the spring from the old hose and reuse it if the new hose doesn't have it. Cheep insurance from possible hose collapse.

Go69
Mar 8th, 05, 07:57 AM
Ok, riddle me this.. Since the system is under pressure, depending on what rating your cap is, how is it possible that the hose would collapse?

Perhaps the spring was only needed when the system was cold and not pressurized? Once a system is up to operating temperatures, you can barely collapse a hose by squeezing it in your hands so I just don't see a hose collapsing from suction when there is that much pressure present in the closed loop system...

Does this make sense or am I missing something obvious? I know that springs have been used for this purpose since I was a baby so there must be some logic to it. I guess I am just missing it.

Bought a reproduction hose recently-no spring. I did not install one either. Is this going to be a problem?

dawg
Mar 8th, 05, 08:06 AM
lower hose is on the suction side of the pump.
thats why itll collapse.
I found a stainless spring at home depot of all places.

Camaro&HogMan
Mar 8th, 05, 08:15 AM
As for newly manufactured G.M. hoses not having the internal spring, my 97 Silverado came from factory with the internal spring on lower radiator hose and when I replaced it later on with a G.M. hose it was the same design with the spring. Now if only I can locate the truck seems some #*^@>"er stole it. :mad:

supv26
Mar 8th, 05, 11:27 AM
Ok, here is my deal.....
Everything on/in my cooling system is new or has been replaced. Just a week ago I changed out the waterneck and put in a new BeCool 180* thermostat. I also bought a "no name" aftermarket 16# cap with the billet aluminum cover. The bottom hose has the spring through the entire length of the hose. The top hose only has the spring half as long as the hose and is next to the radiator.

Now, get this, after starting, running, going to normal temperature (185*) my hoses are nice and firm. Ok, now after the motor cools completely the top radiator hose will collapse just behind the spring. When I open the cap the suction releases and the hose goes back to normal shape.

What the heck is causing this????
graemlins/clonk.gif

Brian Lewis
Mar 8th, 05, 12:17 PM
Have you ran the engine and filled the radiator to the brim and gotten all the air out of the system yet? Hook up your overflow tank, fill up the overflow tank, run the engine a few miles, let it cool, check the overflow tank level and repeat, eventually you should get all the air out of the system and I would think at that point it won't cause this issue.

supv26
Mar 8th, 05, 12:31 PM
I have ran it 3 times now since this was done. I have checked the radiator and it has been full to the top each time.

I do not use an overflow, just a tube running down along side the radiator. There has never been a problem with this before. I don't run on the track so this has always been ok.

I was told maybe the new generic cap may not be vented properly. I will run it a few more times and then change out the cap and put the old one back on and see what happens.

Thanks
graemlins/beers.gif

Brian Lewis
Mar 8th, 05, 12:47 PM
The problem is your radiator burps, removing air/water from the system, and then if the cap is working properly it sucks in air only back into the system, which causes alot of air to be at the top of the radiator and top radiator hose. I've never ran a car like this and don't believe it should be done personally. Overflow isn't just to prevent water from hitting the ground but to also keep your cooling system optimally filled with water only, no air.

dawg
Mar 8th, 05, 01:17 PM
if ya had a overfill tank then it would suck up the coolant in the tank then .
and it wont suck air into the system

Everett#2390
Mar 9th, 05, 01:05 AM
supv26, your problem with the top hose collapsing after cooldown is the radiator cap. It does not/has no vacuum relief valve. If there is a relief valve, then its not working correctly.

The relief valve is the little spring-loaded (some brands of caps) plate on the bottom of the cap.

On an another post of yours, you asked about a recovery/overflow tank. They usually come with tank, hose, and a rad cap. Try the cap supplied, if it will fit the BeCool radiator.

If the above doesn't work, then you might have to install a pressurized recovery tank. The radiator cap moves from the radiator to the recovery tank and the tank becomes pressurized as well. The closed system will still be in effect, as the cooling system would draw coolant back into the engine as it cooled.

HOTRODSRJ
Mar 9th, 05, 01:57 AM
Okay, I did a little homework and here's the scoop on springs in the lower hoses according to the SAE library and my acquaintance at Gates Rubber in Denver. HEre's what I gleened from my work.

It used to be that molded hoses weren't very molded at all and very thin walled which made them susceptible to collapsing under certain conditions. The rubber used was very soft and single ply (so to speak) which made for possible kinking when fitting up to applications or collapsing under suction. The spring kept the integrity of the hose in tact no matter what you did to the hose and especially when hot and super pliable. Also, in the past radiators had smaller tubes (which reduces flow capability) which made for higher suction pressures felt at the lower hose as well....this especially true if there was any clogging going on. Today's radiators are far better flowers and do not put the high negative pressures on the lower hoses as once experienced.

Conversely today, QUALITY (notice I emphasized quality) hoses will be made from "belted" and/or reinforced and layered rubber concoctions (more plastic content) that are vastly improved both in molding, temperature resistance and certainly rigidity. There is actually a design "crush" or "collapse" specification for hoses that QUALITY manufacturers such as Gates and others use to manufacture these, which was instituted sometime in the mid 80s and are constantly improved on. It's because of this "crushability" value that hoses today do NOT need springs to keep their integrity.

However...Gates stated that some manufacturers from afar (being politically correct) have flooded the market with cheap off-brand hoses that permeate the local parts outlets and offered up as their "low-end" brand or whatever. These hoses may or maynot be to snuff on the "crushability" issue and use with caution. These manufacturers are/might be STILL providing springs with certain hoses to copy the original designs of many years past.

So, if its there......no biggy. If it's not...no biggie.

wayner
Mar 9th, 05, 03:11 AM
There are 2 types of radiator caps, the original type used on older systems that did not have a recovery system, and the type for a recovery system.
A cooling system will not draw the coolant back into the rad with the wtrong cap. It will allow coolant to flow into the recovery jug, but thats it.
With the wrong cap, as the system cools it will pull a vaccuum on the entire cooling system, this vaccuum is what draws the coolant back into the rad from the recovery system.

Another method to vent/burp air from your cooling system try; removing the rad cap from the system when its cool, start the engine and let it get to operating or t-stat temp., this can be verified by seeing increased movement of the coolant down the rad cap hole, let it run like this for awhile, trapped air along with some coolant will be burped from the system, when it settles down, shut engine off, let cool, and top off coolant leaving a couple inchs for thermal expansion, and your good to go.