We have discussed this topic so much I decided to create a web page on my site to help out everyone.

I will add more information and images as time alows but for now this should provide the only three options that I know of for us first gen Convertible owners.

Please check it out and provide me some feedback guys.

First Gen Convertible Sub Frame Connector Informatio Web Site (http://www.ragersworld.com/subframeconnectors.htm)

If anyone wants to submit more pics or information please email me and I will add it to this page.

Thanks; Great pictures and explanation.

I have a fourth idea to increase body stiffness, which I will be experimenting with in the next few weeks. It involves using epoxy based expanding foam in every body 'box' section I can find. I will also fill the rocker panels with 2-part urethane foam; it is not quite as rigid but is lighter. Hopefully I can increase the body stiffness without the appearance issues of the other methods. I will need to do a comparison with another convertible that has the sub frame connectors to determine how effective the treatment is. Hopefully someone in the Los Angeles area can help me with the comparison.

Hey Rick, not sure if we're talking about the same thing, but the previous owner of my car sprayed foam into one of the rockers.

It acts like a sponge and keeps moisture in there. I dug most of it out and now my convertible drains correctly.

How many of you still use the "X-brace" along with the subframe connectors? I've been told by a few once you put sub-frames on, the x-brace can be removed without sacrificing anything.

Any thoughts? I use the Global West subframes for the Convertible.

Ileft mine in place but shimmed down to get the pipes in, I'm using Global West

I left my X-brace IN. I don't think the subframe connectors are supposed to replace anything, rather they help reinforce what's already there.
I know some guys who booted the X brace in favor of a bigger exhaust...and then went back and found a way to shim the X Brace and put it back in, because the car is almost un-driveable without it! IMO, leave EVERYTHING in the car and add sfc's...unless you're installing a full-on roll cage.

Originally posted by Jon69RagTop:
How many of you still use the "X-brace" along with the subframe connectors? I've been told by a few once you put sub-frames on, the x-brace can be removed without sacrificing anything.

Any thoughts? I use the Global West subframes for the Convertible. When I put the SF connectors on I ran mine without the X brace for awhile but noticed some cowl shake. I put it back on and it is much better. I would not recommend running wothout it.

Originally posted by jrager:
If anyone wants to submit more pics or information please email me and I will add it to this page. .
Nice website. I think it will be a big help to those considering SFC's. I will see if I can get a good pic of the bump in the rear seat area carpet caused by the DS&E SFC's for your site. This site just gets better and better.

bob

I am buying a Convertible this week end and I was looking for this very thing and VOILA!! here it is . Excellent, most Excellent. Bob, you have one of the best looking and sitting 69 Verts I have ever seen. I would not sell that car ever. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[ 04-02-2004, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: ummgawa ]

Glad I could help guys.

And thanks Bob for offering more pics. I just quit my job and start at Nextel next week. My email address has changed. My new email is john@ragersworld.com.

I Have a 68' vert with a 454, turbo 400 and 12 bolt posi. I've never had any problems with the body shake or anything like that. I do have the x-brace installed but no sfc's. I keep reading about the body flex. What kind of power levels are we talking about before you need sfc's? 300-400 hp. or more? Maybe i should consider a small block.

Originally posted by JDOCKEN:
I Have a 68' vert with a 454, turbo 400 and 12 bolt posi. I've never had any problems with the body shake or anything like that. I do have the x-brace installed but no sfc's. I keep reading about the body flex. What kind of power levels are we talking about before you need sfc's? 300-400 hp. or more? Maybe i should consider a small block. Your car sounds like my car. I now have a 700R4 however. Mine dyno'ed at 330HP and 430TQ at the wheels. I put the connectors on and noticed a much firmer feel.

I have done alot of research on this subject and tried to put it in a basic mechanical model. While the Camaros are pretty good, I recently did a 70 Mustang convertible which was terrible and had to have subframes put in. The Ford's are weaker.

The way I relate the function of the crossplate is this.....take your hand and spread out your thumb and fingers as far and wide as you can horizontally. Pretend that your thumb and little finger represents the cowl from side to side. Now simply holding your arm still and ridgid in front of you, rotate your hand like you are fluttering it in front of you (like demonstrating an airplane move). Your hand move easily thru the rotation. Now grab your wrist/lower part of your hand with your other hand and wrap your fingers around your wrist where it meets the hand... and try the same rotation. Even tho your other hand is a stabilizing effect, the real stabilizing is done by holding the two wrist bones together and this really adds rigidity to the whole mechanism.

Your frame at that point is exactly the same. With little side to side or "rotation" axis support it will easily "resonnate" and with the X member it stabilizes this connection tremendously.

Thought I would add my $0.02. I left the cross plate in and shimmed it to clear new 2 1/2" exhaust. Left the shakers in also. But really made the difference in "feel" was the Competition Engineering subframe connectors. We notched the factory frame braces(side to tunnel brace) then welded the connectors to the frame on both ends and at the notch. Made the car feel incredibly solid and responsive.

I have a 69 Convertible, and I built a new x-brace after adding the Dr. Gas Cross over. Instead of shimming down the old one, I built one that extends up into the tunnel slightly. It still fits between the exhaust and the drive shaft, but not doesn't hang lower than the exhaust. I got nervous about extending it below the exhaust, cause what if you hit something in the road, and rip it off. That would cause major floor damage. If someone wants me to email them pictures to post, I can do that. I would rather not email them to 6 different places if you don't mind.

Thanks for the great site.

I have a 69 Convertible and I wanted to say this site is great!!!!

Thanks all for the help!!!

So little new stuff this week, I decided to read this. Never did before, cause I never saw a need for connectors on my '68 vert.

So, I have what seems to ne an exceptionally unrusty '68 vert. Floors and trunk are original and good. 5 years ago, I pulled my x-brace in favor of an exhuast system.

I've never noticed any cowl shake, rear view mirrors are solid. I can jack the car up in any possible combination, including lifting one entire side by either the front or back of the rocker, and not only still easily open and close the doors, but not see any change in the gap around the doors.

Am I lucky, or just not paying enuf attention?

If it ain't broken, don't fix it!
You must have a pretty amazing car to not have any cowl shake, even after pulling the X brace.
Good for you.

just lucky I guess, tx Steve!

hey, did your top go down with the window zipped up?

anybody have a picture of this x brace, not sure I have this on my car, since the original exhaust was single and had been replaced to a dual.

Here are two URL's that will show you pictures of an X brace. These specific pictures of an xbrace show a modified one so it would clear an aftermarket exhaust.
If you were to pull off the extra box supports that were welded on it would be a stock xbrace.
Hope this helps.

Xbrace picture (http://www.ragersworld.com/412680_23_full.jpg)
Xbrace picure 2 (http://www.ragersworld.com/412680_20_full.jpg)

Haven't tried it yet ,Jim. It's been raining so bad here. Never seen anything like it, even in the "El Nino" season. Constant wind and rain, all day, everyday. Streets overflowing, flooding, water creeping into the basement from the water-table below, etc. If we do get a slight break, I have a few other things that need more immediate attention...tree limbs, landscaping, animals, etc.
But I will give it a try.

hey look at the sfc's on this car that year one built,,they look great too me,,thinking about trying to fab some myself
http://www.yearone.com/enthusiast/articles/69camaro/69camaro.html

The Sub Frame connectors on the Year One care are from Global West. I have the same set on my car.

If you go to this page http://www.yearone.com/enthusiast/articles/69camaro/techspecs.html
They list out all of the parts that they used. The list Global West as the supplier for the connectors under the Suspension/Steering section.