I am looking for information on how to put the PCV system on my 1967 327 Camaro, as I am trying to put the car back to it's original state. I have no holes in the valve covers and no air inlet tube on the air breather. I need information on the filler tube and cap and the placement of the PCV valve. Any information will be very helpful! Thanks!

I believe your '67 should have a vent tube (road draft tube) off the back of the block that runs up to your air cleaner base. Then there is a pcv valve attached to a port on the base of the carb and a hose that runs to the oil fill tube or it could have been the other way with the pcv attached to the fill tube. The tube should have a sealed not vented cap...

DJD is correct. rear vent to air cleaner, the PCV is threaded into the filler tube, cap is not vented.
David

I quess you guys have more info and know this car was originaly sold in California (or High Altitude) and has a K24 Closed system on it.
If not the above discriptions aren't quite right.

If it is a 49 States L30 it has the PCV in the rear tube that goes to the base of the Carb. and a standard Open Breather in the Oil Fill Tube. There would be no inlet in the air cleaner housing.

Oh - and Welcome to Team Camaro 'tsnider' graemlins/beers.gif

It would be cool if we had some pictures of the different 67 PCV setups. I had this very same question a while back.

Originally posted by Vintage 68:
I quess you guys have more info and know this car was originaly sold in California (or High Altitude) and has a K24 Closed system on it.
If not the above discriptions aren't quite right.Easy we're all trying to help!! I've only seen the way I described . I have seen one picture of a PVC going into the base of the carb but the hose looked to be heading to the breather tube.

Can you elaborate on the "rear tube"? Was it sealed if it didn't go to the base of the carb? If it was vented and the breather was vented the pvc really was an orniment more than anything.

Just looking for more info, any you can provide is appreciated...

Originally posted by DjD:
Easy we're all trying to help!!

Just looking for more info, any you can provide is appreciated... DjD - :D Sorry you took it that way - Really, I thought you had some way of telling or seeing more than I could - I'm serious (not much of a computer buff).

"tsnider" - What state are you located and do you have any idea where the car was first sold or lived most of it's life up to now?

The were different systems required for different areas.
If the PCV Valve is located in the hose between the rear (often called 'Draft Tube') connection and the base of the Carb. you may have a 49 States Emissions car (or a standard RPO-L30 PVC system). The rear adapter just looks like an 'up-side-down' Dixie Cup with a Hose fitting on it.
A RPO-K24 Emissions system will have a more elaborate rear adapter that has a fairly long Metal Tube section that leads to a connector hose to connect to the base of the Air Cleaner Housing.
Many - but, by no strech ALL - of these RPO-K24 "Closed Engine Positive Ventilation" systems were on engines also equiped with RPO-K19 A.I.R. systems (smog pumps).
If it is missing completely (and I've seen lots of those :rolleyes: ) and there is a Threaded Connection on the "Original" 'Oil Fill' Tube it was most likely a K-24 Closed system.
If there is any chance it is the original engine - you can give us the codes off the front engine pad and we can tell the type of system it originally had. The original engine code would end with letters like HA,HB,MA,MB,ME,MF,MK,ML,MM & MN or something like that.

Hope some of this is helpfull graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Here are some pictures of the "49 state" system.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jafel@prodigy.net/album?.dir=/5dd5&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jafel@prodigy.net/album%3f.dir=/%26urlhint=actn, del%253as,1%253af,0 (http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jafel@prodigy.net/album?.dir=/5dd5&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jafel@prodigy.net/album%3f.dir=/%26urlhint=actn,del%253as,1%253af,0)

The PCV valve is in-line, mounted in a clip that is bolted to the intake manifold (the orange clip behind the plug wire tower).

Originally posted by Kyvox:
Here are some pictures of the "49 state" system.

The PCV valve is in-line, mounted in a clip that is bolted to the intake manifold (the orange clip behind the plug wire tower). graemlins/thumbsup.gif - Nice pictures Kyvox!
Even the original vacuum advance metal connecting tube is there!

Thanks for posting those graemlins/beers.gif

I can't see the pic but this is great info... Vintage - this would make a great tech reference article. If you author it I can put it in web form and add it here... www.camaros.net/techref (http://www.camaros.net/techref)

Photos of another factory 67 setup (Z28):

http://www.67z28.com/gallery/albums/67%20Z28%20Restoration%20Photo%20Chronicle/Engine%20and%20Drivetrain/DCP_1742.jpg

http://www.67z28.com/gallery/albums/67%20Z28%20Restoration%20Photo%20Chronicle/Engine%20and%20Drivetrain/P1002130.jpg

http://www.67z28.com/gallery/albums/67%20Z28%20Restoration%20Photo%20Chronicle/Engine%20and%20Drivetrain/P1002132.jpg

[ 04-19-2004, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: deejaygee ]

Originally posted by DjD:
Vintage - this would make a great tech reference article. If you author it I can put it in web form and add it here... www.camaros.net/techref (http://www.camaros.net/techref) DjD - okay, I'll work on that. I'm just am Old School Smog Tech that used to work at a dealer in So. Ca.
I have some interest in these systems and like to see them restored properly - they don't hurt performance at all.

dejaygee - nice pictures of a 'Closed System' vent pipe graemlins/thumbsup.gif (GM called these "Tube Assemblies")
I'm going to guess it's a 'MO' code 302 and you would have a threaded fitting in the Oil Fill tube for the PCV. (edit: Oops - last pic. didn't load when I first looked redface.gif )
This system is Identical to the RPO-K24 system used on Calif and High Altitude SBC's.
This system was used on 49 State Z-28's - Calif. cars also got A.I.R.
Not sure why GM added this system to Z's v.s. a standard semi-Open Vent system -- but, possibly due to it's excellent scavaging of vapors from a high winding motor...

John

You guys are awesome!!! Thanks for the pics!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif

What would be even more cool, is if Dennis made a tech ref area that showed the different PCV setups!!!


P.S. Sorry I see that you guys were already discussing this!!


P.P.S. Is there a repop version of the PCV valve clip for the 49 state version?

[ 04-02-2004, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: paulm ]

All the different PVC systems for 67 Camaro can be found in the 67 Camaro assembly manual. Page 103(section 6 sheet C5) for 327/210 page 279 (section L30 sheet A3) for 327/275 and 350/295 all other can be found with their option codes, example L35,L78 and Z28 and California cars are page 267 (section K24 sheet A2) All these diagrams in the assembly manual included the original part numbers. Sincerely Steve

I don't know if a '68 is the same but if it is. I just got a completely stock car with a 327 2bbl. Let me know if you would like some pics.

I have a 1964 chevelle 283 in my marrow, let me get this straight? are you running from the rear vent to an inline pcv valve to a vacuum port on the carb?!!!

thats the way the PCV system works on my 68 350

http://www.bsmf.com/images/camaro/engine.jpg

you can see it under my old rediculous air cleaner and my old edelbrock weber carb, from all the technical info i've been able to collect, the vacum is there to draw out whatever small amounts of unignited fuel seeps up through the crankcase/chamber


i do have a question though, is it possible to just run breathers? i've seen several people do this, i am by no means an emissions aware driver, if i was i would have a prius... or one of those similar abominations

but yeah, is it possible to just remove the PCV line from my valve cover/carb and just pop in breathers ?

Originally posted by aonghus:


'i do have a question though, is it possible to just run breathers? '

'is it possible to just remove the PCV line from my valve cover/carb and just pop in breathers ?' Yes - You could do that, but why? You answered your own question earlier - "the vacuum is there to draw out whatever small amounts of unignited fuel seeps up through the crankcase/chamber"...
These "small amounts of unignited fuel " burn in place of a 'small-amounts-of' fresh fuel and thus slightly increase you fuel mileage and help keep harmfull fumes out of the crankcase.
The fumes contain trace amounts of fuel and other combustion by-products that can become acidic in the crankcase and lead to long team engine damage.
If you don't run a venting system other than breathers be ready to spend time wiping and cleaning your engine compartment... as well as good degreasing of the tailpan and undercar areas from time to time. I have seen many nice street vehicles showing signs of an "oiled tail" at car shows and a peek under the hood (if they open it - it's often an oily mess) shows a modified venting system that is not working correctly.

The bottom line is - Running a properly installed and serviced PCV system is a very good thing on street engines.

JMHO;

John

KYVOX nice pictures, the orange clip on the PVC valve bolted to the intake. Iam missing on mine, does anyone make a repro on this clip? Anyone? thanks.

Here's another question. Please note that I am not going for restoration value as far as putting my PCV system back to original specs. Having said that, here goes. I am running a Weiand Team G intake, which has a single vacuum port to the rear of the manifold. Can I hook up both the power brake booster and the hose going to the PCV valve on a t-fitting coming from the manifold, or does the PCV system need to be run from the bottom of the air cleaner housing? Which is best from a performance perspective? I am in the process of fabbing up an aluminum air cleaner base to work with my cowl induction hood.
Please advise.

Thanks as usual.

Mike

Originally posted by 1NAST69:
Here's another question.
(1)Can I hook up both the power brake booster and the hose going to the PCV valve on a t-fitting coming from the manifold, (2)or does the PCV system need to be run from the bottom of the air cleaner housing?
Please advise.

Thanks as usual.

Mike Mike;

You are asking about the 2 different hook-ups here as 1 question... so I divided it into 2 for you.

(1) The PCV Valve vacuum source can be a "T"-ed fitting at the rear of the carb or the manifold shared with the Power Brake system and work correctly, as long as you don't have an engine combo that gives you very low vacuum signal (readings) at idle or low speeds.
Some may argue that the vacuum signal to the Power Booster may be slightly lower due to the placement off the PCV there - but, the PCV, if properly sized, and the booster did not interfer with each other in any of the vehicles I have set-up this way. The GM boosters usually have a wide vacuum signal hysteresis (range) and will work well with this slight signal drop.

(2) The crankcase will need a source of 'fresh air' to allow the PCV system to function correctly. That source is usually through the Air Filter Base or via Breather(s) mounted on the valve covers or oil fill tube.
I prefer to use the clean air available at the air filter base [this is commonly refered to as a 'closed system'] v.s. breather(s) as it delievers a constant supply of clean air to the crankcase. Breathers can become plugged with dirt and oil and decrease the effect of the PCV system very quickly. (When was last time anyone with breathers cleaned them as required???)

On your 1969 the PCV would have been in the left (drivers) valve cover and routed to the carb base via a hose and the fresh air make-up would have been routed from the right (pass) valve cover to the base of the air cleaner. The closer you can stay to this set-up, even if you move the PCV source to the rear of the manifold, the better the system will function.

That's my .02 on the subject - I hope others with experience with these systems chime in on anything I missed.

Hope this helps;

John

John, my combo is fairly mild, so the vacuum should be sufficient. I have already run my PCV hose and I have it opposite to what you stated. I have the PCV on the passenger side. I do have a new breather in the driver's side valve cover, but I would not mind running the 'breather intake' to the air cleaner base if that would be better. Is there some sort of filter on that line, or is it already considered filtered due to the fact that it is in the base within the area that is filtered by the carbs air filter?
Thanks for the help.

Mike

Originally posted by 1NAST69:
I do have a new breather in the driver's side valve cover, but I would not mind running the 'breather intake' to the air cleaner base if that would be better. Is there some sort of filter on that line, or is it already considered filtered due to the fact that it is in the base within the area that is filtered by the carbs air filter?
Thanks for the help.

Mike Mike;

It really doesn't matter which side the PCV or Breather/Air Filter connection are on - I only gave you the info for reference to original.

I would prefer a connection that would furnish clean fresh air from the air filter base (inside of the filtered area) v.s. a breather only because the breather can become clogged fairly fast and restrict flow to the crankcase. Like I said, how many out there with breathers service (clean and reoil) them on a regular basis - that is why GM (and all the others) changed to a filtered supply set-up.
Most of the 'repoppers' sell the air filter bases for early Camaros that have the tube for the vent hose in the base. There is also a small, what they usually call a "Flame Arrestor" (we used to call them 'Fly Screens'), domed mesh filter that goes over the tube sticking out on the inside of the base that is often missing.
Later GM vehicles had a seperate Breather Element that installed inside the outer wall of the air filter base and routed to the valve cover inlet. It contained some mesh material to filter out the 'big stuff' before it could get to the crankcase. When these become plugged or are removed they allow dirt to get to the #6&8 valve guides and cause them to wear quickly - leading to oil burning and fouling of those 2 cylinders on lots of engines.

Let me know if you need any clarification of more info.

John

Hey John, great info! One last question, do you have a part number or know if I could fab up one of these flame arrestors "fly traps" I am planning on constructing my own air cleaner base and housing out of aluminum to accomodate my cowl induction hood. I would like to go with your recommendation, sounds great. Where do I get or how do I make the fly trap????

Mike

Originally posted by 1NAST69:
Where do I get or how do I make the fly trap????

Mike Home Depot ??? :D

Most of the 'repoppers' should have them.
The original GM part number is 3849856 (group 1.745) I think Classic Industries part number is K0072 and The Car Shop lists it as #141-04648 - but try the "Ground Up" link at the bottom of the page, they should have them - if you can't find it on their site give them a call - they surely can get it for you.
Oh - and remember they will call it a "Flame Arrestor" :confused: I quess it could prevent a carb backfire from getting to the crankcase - but that's a longshot...

John, thank you so much for the in depth info. I can't wait to get my baby back on the road and send in some pics to the site and see what you guys think. This is my 3rd first gen., fifth Camaro, but by far the best one yet. Thanks for the help, it is appreciated. Thanks for the quick response too.

Mike

Mike [/qb][/QUOTE]Home Depot ??? :D

Oh - and remember they will call it a "Flame Arrestor" :confused: I quess it could prevent a carb backfire from getting to the crankcase - but that's a longshot... [/QB][/QUOTE]

Yup, that's exactly what it's for - to prevent an explosion of flammable crankcase vapors in the event of a carb backfire; same reason that boat engine air cleaners have Coast Guard-approved full-coverage flame arrestors on their air intakes, to prevent bilge fume explosions.
graemlins/beers.gif

If anybody needs a pic of the K-19 pcv system which is also the closed system, just shout.

Does anyone have a part # for the pcv valve used in a 1967 K24 california system?


In an effort to clean up my engine compartment, I've fitted my perf rpm with a filler tube with a 3/8" npt fitting. So far, I've bought 3 different "'67" pcv valves from various sources, and none are right to screw in here and attach a 3/8" hose to the other end...

in a few hours, I'll be making a 2 hr round trip to D&R, they list this part under 2 part #'s, claiming it screws in. Hopefully, someone will come thru with a part #, otherwise perhaps I'll get the privelige of paying $35 for a pcv valve!

fyi, the part Rick's lists for a '67 pcv valve is for the 49 state system, as shown in this post, it has a 3/8" tube fitting on the carb side, and a 1/2" tube fitting on the engine side, and I have a new one I'll sell cheap!

any progress on a tech reference on this subject?

part # 6422721 (CV726C) is listed in my new gearhaed cd parts reference in groupt 1.745 as a "VALVE, 67 ALL w/ 283-327, w/closed positive vent.

Is this the one that screws into the oil filler tube? and do ya think CV726c is the "over the counter AC Delco #?

If you have a NAPA parts store around, check out a #CRB2957 graemlins/thumbsup.gif

would love to find this at napa, tried once allready, got one for an "open system", not the right one.

the part # you supplied came up at napaonline as:
Echlin Fuel System Vacuum Delay Valve

and is not a pcv valve. Typo maybe?? try again?

UEREKA!! The nape / Echlin # is CRB 29257, and this sure looks like the correct part (from the picture at napaonline) for a 1967 327 w/ closed pcv system!!

and my local napa store will have it for me in the morning, for $5!!

tx for the tip, vintage!!

Originally posted by JimM:
UEREKA!! The nape / Echlin # is CRB 29257, and this sure looks like the correct part (from the picture at napaonline) for a 1967 327 w/ closed pcv system!!

and my local napa store will have it for me in the morning, for $5!!

tx for the tip, vintage!! No problem - that's why we're all here graemlins/waving.gif

ps: sorry about missing the "2", I recently sold my '67 and that number was off the top of my head - shoulda' looked it up...