HEy Im lookin at a 67 rs that has a rebuilt 327 in it. My question is this, would i be better off dropping in a dynod 350 crate engine or just putting more performance parts on the 327. what are the pros and cons of each engine?
thanks

This is one of those personal choice questions. If you want to keep it stock....you have to stay with the 327. If the answer to that is that you don't care....I think you have to do a cost/benefit analysis of the two options. Key here might be what kind of shape is the 327? Probably less expensive to add performance components to the 327 that buy a new 350.....but if the 327 needs a total rebuild?....might be better to go with the 350.

I went with a new 383 in my 67. But if I would have been thinking a 300 hp engine I probably would have rebuilt the 327.

Mark M.

CaliCamaro, it only matters what you want to do with the car. A 327 can make good horsepower, but they are not torque motors. With the right transmission and rearend gearing, the car will fly. The rod/stroke ratio for the 327 is almost perfect. A 350 also can make good horsepower and even more torque than the 327, but I don't think I'd change it for a 350. The 327 will do just fine. Upgrade with perfomance mods on the 327 if you want to get more power out of it.
Otherwise think stroker motor http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif
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Ricky
68/RS on Blocks...

[This message has been edited by Ricks68RS (edited 07-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ricks68RS (edited 07-19-2001).]

Hey Ricky,

What do you have in mind when you say, "the right transmission and rearend gearing?"

I have a 327 what the prev owner did some work to. (Don't know the hp but feels/sounds like it has some power)
The problem is that it is hooked up to a PG and a 2.73 rear.

I'm thinking TH350 w/ shift kit, 2k stall and a 3.73 posi.

Toughts / comments???

Go with the th350 a performer or rpm intake, 600 to 650 carb, and a mild 262 lift cam. You will love the difference.

Ya Baby!

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Stock 67 327 RS
www.angelfire.com/ca7/goatjjcamarors/index.html (http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/goatjjcamarors/index.html)

I had a 327 in my camaro and absolutely loved it,I love how quickly a 327 will wrap up. It's easier to get horses out of a 350 than a 327 but if you want somewhere in the 300 to 400 horse range I would stick with the 327.Good Luck
Blake

Thanks guys for all the input, now that I think about it more, it would definetely be smarter to upgrade the 327. Now another question, im still in the process of getting engine specifications, but like any other hot rodder, im already thinking of what i should put on. whats everyones thoughts on heads? this is a total daily driver, but i still want around 380-400hp. would i be better off getting sum cast iron heads as opposed to aluminum? and any suggestions as to a good choice. also, any 327 drivers now or past, please share your full setup.

thanks

your using it as a daily driver so i dont understand your reasoning in having something 400hp in your car. i'd stick w/ the 327 if its in good shape, put some nice pistons, heads, intake and a nice carb on their and your fine. if you want that hot rod sound also put a semi-mild cam in it, some where in the mid .3's. i believe comp cams has blueprint muscle car cams, exactly like the ones they used to put in cars during the muscle car era. jegs has those cams. if you go too crazy you wont be able to drive the car on the street, so keep it moderate.
as for trans and rear gears, personally i'd go for a well made 700-r4, but thats only my opinion. the overdrive is nice, and it has a low first gear to get going quick, combine that w/ 3.73 gears and you'll be good, in my opinion at least.

you might wanna stick w/ that powerglide. powerglides are very upgradable transmissions. i know of a tricked out PG w/ a 2000hp motor bolted on it, just you can't bolt that kind if power to a stock PG, it needs a few parts swaps.
sorry forgot that t, you "can't" put that power behind a stock PG

[This message has been edited by chevybuilder67 (edited 07-19-2001).]

I too had a 327 car with a pg trans and a high (numerically low) 3.08 rear gear. I swapped in a TH350 and a 3.73 rear and it felt like it picked up 50 horses. I say go for it! However, if I had it to do over again (with those 3.73 gears anyway), I would have gone overdrive with the tranny. I have heard that the TH200-4r is a fairly easy swap, only a little harder than the TH350 due to crossmember changes and wiring.

PG transmissions can be built tough, but the stock piece probably doesn't have all of the heavy duty guts to last long behind that much power.

As far as heads, if you want the best, go with the AFR 180cc head. The runner size is good for a 327. Paired with a good cam you will make 375-400 horses and still be streetable. Good luck.

PG's have a higher 1st gear so they want alot of rear gear, I would go for the 700 or 200 that way you can cruise the freeway.

i would also use a 700r4/200r4 the low gear would make it a little quicker off the line and the overdrive would only help fuel mileage,(and make it faster on wide open throttle) its win win. PGs are fine but not too great for a daily driver, besides the high 1st gear on a PG wouldnt work too good with the short stroke of the 327, a 75 honda civic could beat you off the line with a 327/pg combo.

i doubt that a 75 honda civic would beat a lown mower off the line, but your right about the PG. its probably not good for embarrasing ppl at lights.

I have a 67 coupe 327 with the TH350 and I love it. I agree to fix up the 327. You are right where I'm at with mine. I'm trying to get around 375 - 400 hp....I estimate I'm around 325 - 340 hp right now. I think you will end up spending less money going this route, but I have seen some enticing 350 crate motors out there....

Leftcoast

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'67 Camaro 327
Edelbrock intake & carb, dynomax headers & exhaust, TH350

thanks for all the info, im goin with upgrading the 327 and was going to put in a 700r4 tranny and 2000rpm lock-up converter/3.73 gears already.

so sitting atop the engine will be a performer rpm manifold with an edelbrock 600cfm carb, still looking at various heads(where did u find those AFR's boodlefoof??) now here is my question, as for cams i have been looking @ the crane powermax cam/lifter kit and was thinking of going with the 272/284 @ 1500-5800rpm. would this be a good choice for the good idle, low to mid toqued daily driver?

and also for anyone who has swapped any tranny for a 700r4, how difficult was it? thanks

CaliCamaro, I swapped a TH350 for a 700R4 in my '68. I thought it would be tough, but it was really easy. The only modifications I had to make for it to fit was to slide the crossmember back to where the front hole in the crossmember mated to the rear hole in the frame on both sides. I did have to cut away the flattened out part of the crossmember at the front (for pan access, should I ever need it). You'll need a shorter driveshaft. The 700R4 is about 3" longer than the TH350. I got lucky and found a driveshaft at my friends transmission shop that went right in !

[This message has been edited by Rons68 (edited 07-21-2001).]

the AFR heads can be found at www.airflowresearch.com (http://www.airflowresearch.com) The high-velocity 180cc runner will help produce torque, while the heads still flow well enough to support some high rpm horsepower.

I am not familiar with many of Crane's cam grinds, but I emailed AFR about the possibilities with rebuilding my 327 or making a 350 using their heads... I told them I would probably go with a Comp XE262 (218/224 degrees duration @ .050'' lift) or the XE268 (224/230 degrees @ .050'' lift). They said that with the 180cc heads and 9:1 compression the 268 grind in the 327 would put out between 375 and 400 horses with 400+ ft. lbs. of torque while still being vacuum friendly and idling well.

A recent article put these heads and this cam into a 350 with 9:1 compression and made 415 horses at 6000rpm and 435 ft. lbs. torque at 4000rpm with 400+ ft. lbs. from 2900-5400rpm. Not too shabby. A 327 with the same combo would make slightly lower numbers and the numbers would be shifted up in the rpm band a little... the 262 grind would also be a good choice if you don't plan on taking the motor up that high.

Wow, that sounds really great out of a 327 while still maintaing a 9:1. im still undecided between the xe 262 and 268, determining what would be a better rpm range. The only problem i came across is this, the car i am building is a daily driver. a daily, city, driver. and from what i have heard, for conditions where the engine is under a lot of use, the cast iron heads are more desirable as opposed to aluminum on account of the durability.(such as when the engine is running hot) would it be possible to still get around 400hp with cast iron heads? if so, any suggestions?


[This message has been edited by CaliCamaro (edited 07-21-2001).]

CaliCamaro, I would reconsider whether or not you want aluminum heads on your motor.

Many V8 (and non-V8)powered cars these days have aluminum heads and have very little trouble with daily city driving.

My '68 has aluminum heads and I have had zero problems driving in Texas heat (over 100 degrees F!) at rush hour, in the city.

You will save quite a few pounds using aluminum heads and gain some horses as well!

Just my $.02



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See my '68 RS/ZZ4 at http://www.100megsfree.com/choptop/camaro.html

Wow thanks, now that you put it like that, I may very well go with aluminum heads. This opens up a lot of doors as far as what i can go configure my engine with goes. Also, im guessing many companies have a warranty on their parts anyway. thanks

if you are undecided between the two cams, get the smaller one. While the larger one would be ok in a driver, the 262 would be a better choice. It will still pull to nearly 6000rpms if you ever do make it to the track.

Ditto on the aluminum head reliability. No head can take extreme overheating though, just make sure that you have a good cooling system (radiator, water pump, thermostat). More horses = more heat in most cases.

It's funny that I didn't see this topic until now. I just am wrapping up a 67 Camaro that I have been working on for almost 3 years now. It also started out as a 327/210 2 bb; car with a powerglide and 3.08 gears. Since then, my dad and I have completely re-done the engine. We went with 9:1 pistons, cast rods, cast crank, World Sportsman II heads(200 cc runners) 2.02/1.60 valves, an Edelbrock Perf. RPM intake, A Comp XE 268(sounds awesome), a Holley 750 single pump/dual feed(needed to be jetted down) and a COMP Cams valvetrain. Along with the typical other rebuild stuff(hoses,timing chain, etc.) We mated the motor to a built 700r4 with a shift kit and 2000 stall converter. This combination is excellent in my opinion. The motor runs great, makes great power, and sounds AWESOME!! I do still however have the stock open differential and 3.08 gears. This is what I am changing next. I think I am going to go with a 8.5 inch, with a posi and 3.55 gears. I think this is the easiest way to get a strong enough rearend, and convert it to a multileaf suspension. Plus, it will allow me to get rid of these terrible shock mounts on the 67. They seem to only get in the way and increase wheel hop. Let me know what you guys think...

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Son's 67-327, Dad's twistin' wrenches again after 25 yrs.

interesting, thats almost the exact same setup i am going to have. wow 3 years, long project. just a question, because this is my first car. can anyone give me an estimate on how long this might take me. install new heads, cam, carb and intake. new exhaust, new 700r4 with converter, 4 wheel disc brake conversion, and sway bars. and probably a little suspension work(spring, shocks maybe) now i plan on putting in as much time as possible, which if up to me would be 24 hrs a day(thats why god made caffeine) so for a first time project, with a few books, anyone able to give a ball park estimate as to how long that might take?
thanks

Hey RFrenette,

I've been away from my computer for awhile.

Anyway, what I had in mind, was use a TH350 with 3.73/4.11 rearend gears for around town type of driving. I would use a 200R4/700R4 with 3.55/3.90 rearend gears for interstate type driving. I guess it all depense on where you drive your car the most.

CaliCamaro, FYI the 200R4 is the same length as the TH350 and they can be built strong, they stuck them behide the Buick Turbo GrandNationals. I believe the 700R4 is longer and your driveshaft will have to be shortened for it to work.

That is correct, the 2004r is the same length as a powerglide or a th350. The driveshaft will be shortened with a 700r4. But, ask around, the 700r4 is a far superior transmission, with a better life span under harder conditions. The driveshaft work cost me about $150 at my local shop, and that included new heavy duty U-joints. As far as time goes, mine took a while. It was my first car, and we read a lot of books before diving right in. We didn't work on it for 3 years straight but probably 1.5 year on and off and every weekend for the rest. I also waited 16 weeks for the paint and body work, but then again, the paint looks like a car from a magazine. I would reccomend getting an assembly guide, wiring diagram, and "Camaro Restoration Handbook" by Tom Currao & Ron Sessions, published by HP Books. Good luck!

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Son's 67-327, Dad's twistin' wrenches again after 25 yrs.

Hmm well what are ALL modifications that would need to be made to my car by a mechanic so that the 700r4 could be put in? and would it be easier just to have them do the whole job while they are at it?(lol i know the easy way out)

and anyone else have a prediction on total project time?
thanks

[This message has been edited by CaliCamaro (edited 07-23-2001).]

cali,
hope ya don't mind my input...

1) go with a built 200R...they sell 'em for about $1300...pheonix transmissions(somebody posted thier website in drivetrain section). 200r is a direct replacement for TH350 & powerglide!

2) i had my 355 "pumt" when it was a daily driver...however, it had to be "comprimised" because of idle & vacuum quality to maintain drivability. it ran mid-14's w/2.73's. estimated at 300HP by the machinest. (doubt it!)

after putting 180,000 miles on the original 355, i put it on the crate sittin' in my garage...then i picked up my 350HO super deluxe with 390HP, w/268xe...this thing rips!!!! probably capable of low 13's high 12's depending upon traction...it has 3.42's now!

although, my "72 has not been a daily driver for sometime now...i do take it to work once or twice a week...and my commute consists of the san mateo bridge...which ya should know means idling for about 45-1hr...and/or cruising at 65+ on the same day....and i idle fine with my a/c on and my power brakes!!!

my experience has been great w/GMPP crate motors...look into the zz4 or the zzw/fast burns...ya can't match the power, drivability and warranty. ya can always keep the original ina crate and rebuild it as time & $ permits...thats what i'm doing with mine...although, i'm stroking my 355 and making it to survive high nitrous shots!!

hard to beat factory peroformance...go with GMPP!!
good luck.

CaliCamaro, are you planning on driving the car intermittantly or just tear it apart and rebuild it? I have been doing the previous method and it takes as much time as my pocketbook and waiting for parts allows. I also have to wait to work on it until I can secure another ride to work as my Camaro is a daily driver.

As far as the trans, I second (or is it third now?) the vote for the TH200-4R. It can be built tough for the same price as a 700R4, installs easier, and has a slightly better set of gear ratios to play with in my opinion.

Back to the time issue, how good are your wrenching skills and what kind of tools do you have? Also, if you have a shop do work for you, most of them take a long time...

thanks i really liked the idea of the th200 and went to phoenix's website. the only problem is that the tranny has a hp maximum of 350, and im lookin to build something that is around 400. any ideas? i havent thought about the 200, and the "direct replacement for powerglide" sounds great.

i am very good with my hands(hold back the jokes lol) and would also get help from my father who back in the day had a few cars and bikes he worked on.
thanks

why not put a th400 in instead of a 700r4 or a 200r4? i know it doesnt have overdrive but i'm pretty sure it can handle 400 horses. if you have a shop install the 700r4, you can probably get a warranty, double check at the shops you go too. if your not an experienced mechanic, this probably isnt the type of project to learn on. anyway i heard that the 200r4 isnt a very good trans, but it depends on the company that builds it.

I have heard lots of pros and cons of which overdrive trans. to install. I decided to get a unit from TPI and I asked them which to go with and they said definately go with the 700r4.

i talked to a guy today who said to go with a tranny shift improve kit and a aftermarket flywheel so that the 200 could handle the hp. thoughts?

[This message has been edited by CaliCamaro (edited 07-23-2001).]

Keep in mind that the lower 1st gear of the 700r4 will allow you to run higher (numerically lower) rear gears. Check out www.bowtieoverdrives.com (http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com) and read up on it. As far as simplicity the 200-4r is a bolt in with a TH-400 crossmember. Good Luck.

cali,

unless, you are always at the track...the 200r will be able to hold up...i believe ya said it was gonna be your daily driver...it'll handle the local blasts on the highway and open roads!

i'm curious if i was able to sway you with GMPP crate?

do a search for a guy named Bruce who goes by the handle "WE4" in the engine and drivetarin section as well as the performance section. He works at or owns (not sure which) a trans shop that makes 200-4R transmissions that live behind cars running 10 second ETs in the quarter mile. Definately can take 400 horses.