View Full Version : Questions before I buy a COPO Clone


blownNinjected
Nov 19th, 04, 04:35 PM
Is this car worth Buying (How much would you pay)? All opinions very much appreciated....

Sellers Description below then a few images to follow....

I will list as much as possible without dragging out every receipt. If you have further questions, feel free to ask.
69 Camaro built in L.A. Original marina blue, black interior, 327, power-glide, 10 bolt, power drum brakes. What I loved about this car, is the fact that it is an all original sheet-metal car that has never been wrecked or repaired. It also is the same base model they used for the COPO car. Thus my attraction to this car. I wanted a COPO/street strip clone. I tracked and found a correct date stamped (within 2 months) 427BBC 4 bolt main. Correct square port heads, standard/standard steel crank, dimple rods, etc.... The engine has forged speed-pro .30 over pistons. The block was machined, fully balanced, and assembled by one of the finest here in the Midwest, "Schmidt racing" You can go to their website if you are not familiar with them. The lower end was line bored, decked, drilled decks, (for improved cooling), and checked for integrity. The lower end was fully balanced from the balancer to the clutch. All within 4 grams. I chose to detune the compression from the factory 11.25 to 1 down to 9.8 to 1. I wanted this to be a nice show/driver. I'm not strapped to the local racing fuel pump. The Heads have been mildly ported and worked by Schmidt racing as well. They include all 2.19X1.88 SS swirled racing valves and three angle valve job then flowed. The Valve train is all Comp Cams. (Excluding the full roller rockers, Harlan Sharp) Comp extreme energy xe284h cam, 858-16 lifters, matching double springs, valve seals, hardened locks, keepers etc...Double roller comp t-chain and thrust button. Intake is an Edelbrock air-gap rpm supporting a 750 cfm Demon mechanical secondary carb. (Once on the dyno, we found it to be too small for top end HP. We bolted on a 850 cfm Holley that wasn't mine and gained another 27 hp
@6200rpm) Full MSD ignition system including 6al box currently with a 6200rpm chip, (it wants more) MSD billet distributor, 8.5 wires, held by billets wire loom holding plates. Very neat and tidy. Holley fuel pump pushing 7 psi through SS fuel line, earls micron filter and a-n fittings to carb. Full length Hooker Super Comp two and an eighth coated headers to 3.5 outlets. Full Mandrell bent 2.5 exhaust system with H-pipe and flowmaster 40s. This car does not sound like your typical flowmaster system. It SCREAMS at you on full acceleration and deceleration. As you are aware, Big blocks with big intake ports have a tendency to do that.
Very addictive. The engine is dressed with March aluminum pulleys and Chrome 100 amp 1 wire alternator. New power steering pump, new high volume water pump, new clutch fan, new correct radiator, hoses and shroud. It never gets to hot. It starts trough a new high torque starter and 2 gauge battery cables. Lots of heavy nice grounds as well. The electrical system is in full good working order. Even the reverse lights work. It starts on an Optima battery. I had the engine tested and ran on the dyno. It produced 512 HP @6200rpm. The torque was even higher at 3200rpm. Very strong midrange, then it wakes up again at 5300rpm to 6200 where the chip cuts it out. The Trans is a Muncie M-22 rock-crusher that was fully freshened up before install. I have an $850.00 receipt for that alone. Lakewood bell-housing and Ram clutch kit. All new shift linkage and shifter. Shifts into an Inland Empire 3.5 inch aluminum driveshaft to a 1350 yoke. The rear axle is a correct date stamped 12 bolt rust and pit free unit. It was professionally gone through at Mosier engineering. It has a new Eaton carrier, 3.42 street friendly gear, 33 spline mosier race axles, c-clip eliminators, and premium bearings throughout. The rear end is rated up to 900 hp. I didn't ever want it to break. $2500.00 later, I had the axle home. It is supported on mono-leaf springs, (which some guys would prefer to change) and has lift bars. The frame has been tied in (Bolt in style) to assist in traction and stability. Really helps in body flex. Can't say much for traction. Slicks would probably make all of the difference. The front end is all fresh including ball joints, tie rod ends, bushings, 2.5 inch drop spindles, disc brake conversion, etc.... It is all very tight and handles good for a 35 year old car with a Big Block. The power-train is
2 years old and 1200 miles. Very fresh. It has only been on the track one time with the BF Goodrich tires to see how it would do in the quarter. I ran it 3 times. It never hooks in first no matter how you drive it. Feathering it out of the hole and finally standing in it by third gear, I ran a 12.2 quarter mile. Not bad considering it is a complete car, 3.42 gear, 4 speed, and BFG tires. I know that it seems like the car is border line race, but I built it for the love of the COPO clone and to eat rice burners. Plus it is a lot of fun to cruise and go to shows. I just wish my wife liked it. The paint is now 6 years old and has a few flaws. But I still won a first place trophy at the last show I attended for best muscle car. The interior is still sporting the original headliner and it looks great. It has buckets 4 speed console, auto meter gauge pod, 140 Speedo, and factory style tach. All new. Replaced the carpet, dash pad, and had the seats redone with grey in the center like hounds tooth style. New emblems and it looks good for
6 years old. The only thing I don't like is that the dash was already cut for a flat face radio. It also already had speaker holes. I went ahead and put a CD tuner and speakers in it. All of these items can be replaced with new O.E. style parts. I have enjoyed the tunes. It has a wood grain wheel. I get a lot of compliments on this original style wheel. The Heat works great as to I put the correct Big Block heater core / shrouds and covers in the car. It's not a cheesy make it work from small block to BB. All of the controls for climate control were cleaned lubed and reinstalled. The blower even works on all speeds thanks to a new switch. Items that go with the car are a really nice pair of tail light lens's, front lower spoiler (due to the current one is cracked) and a new pair of chrome quarter vents (go in front of the rear wheels on the quarter) you will see these items in the pictures I'll have soon. You will also see the original trunk splatter paint. I have not refinished this as to it proves solid rust free undamaged authenticy. I hope this covers all questions. I'm about strained trying to remember all of this. If you have further questions, please let me know.

Link to Images (http://66.127.166.100/pics/)

BlownNinjected

[ 11-19-2004, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: blownNinjected ]

DjD
Nov 19th, 04, 06:03 PM
The pathing is killing the pic's from displaying or even being clickable. To see the pic's cut and paste the full url into your browser...

Dial up users, use caution they load slow even on a broadband connection. Are these on your own server BnI?

http://66.159.196.168/1969 COPO Clone - Black/S4200020.JPG

http://66.159.196.168/1969 COPO Clone - Black/S4200031.JPG

Welcome to TC BnI...
JMO there is nothing clone or copo about that car. A near date correct block Big Block sure doesn't make the car a clone, nor do a few SS 427 badges... The 2 pic's don't show any details but the car looks to be a nice street bruser.
Where is the car located, is it listed on the web? How much is the seller asking?

blownNinjected
Nov 19th, 04, 07:59 PM
Yes, these are on my server. I just moved them up to another tier. It's T1 speed. Sorry about speed, the photo's are large. The car is not listed, this would be trade plus cash deal for me. The Camaro owner wants my 56 VW (worth $9000.00) plus $12,000 for the Camaro. The car is in Indianapolis. I would love to get rid of the VW, not my style. I own several show and drag cars (Chevy Nova's) and the VW is a soar and has been very difficult to sell outright.

Unreal
Nov 21st, 04, 07:03 AM
I'm with Dennis...... It sounds like a nice street car, but a long way from a COPO clone.
None were badged 427 SS...wrong intake and carb...wrong seat covers....wrong springs...just to name a few.
$21,000 seems a little on the high side, but if you like it just as it is, you might be happy...especially since the guy wants to trad your VW. If you wanted to change all the things to make it closer to a real COPO, expect to spend at least $5-7 grand....maybe more.

blownNinjected
Nov 21st, 04, 03:35 PM
Yea, I would really like to get rid of the VW. As for an actual COPO car, that's only a dream for now. But, you do agree it would be a nice street car to play with. But, you also mention the price is on the high side. What should I talk him down to? $18,000.00? What is the car worth?

DjD
Nov 21st, 04, 04:13 PM
Pictures can hide so much!! I saw a couple though that raise a red flag to me...
If all the rubber is like this you won't enjoy driving around in the car at all...
http://66.127.166.100/pics/69-10.jpg

Something major here with the trunk lid fit...
http://66.127.166.100/pics/69-10.jpg

blownNinjected
Nov 21st, 04, 06:56 PM
I did notice the rubber as well. I have questioned that to the seller. Also I asked what brakes it has, disc or drum, and if the windows work fine. The undercarriage is another big question. I'm waiting for more pictures as well.

Truck Lid fit???

DjD
Nov 21st, 04, 07:09 PM
My bad I linked the same pic twice. Look at this one full size... http://66.127.166.100/pics/S4200023.JPG

blownNinjected
Nov 21st, 04, 08:12 PM
That picture does show it gapped :(

The owner just replied with some more info:

1. The suspension has been modified; It has a SS brake parts conversion package Including 2.5 inch drop spindles, New stock big block springs, new ball joints, tie rod ends, full disc brake conversion with all new seals, bearings, hoses, etc.... All included in the kit. With the kit was a new 7 inch booster, and master cylinder, and proportioning valve.
So disc front, drum rear. Rear brakes all rebuilt also.
2. Chrome is good condition. Original stainless. Not perfect, but nice 3. Newer trunk seal. Car could use new rubber around door openings, and scrapers if you want it show quality. But all windows work, well.
4. It does have very minimal surface rust in the trunk. Considering it is the original paint, and 35 years old, not bad. I have not refinished the trunk. It is original, and there has been nothing to hide. I like to keep it original as possible. It also proves the authenticy of the originality.
The trunk is very solid with no weak areas. One of the things I appreciated about this car. One afternoon, and you could have this trunk looking perfect.
5. No fluid leaks. Everything is new and fresh.
6. Power steering is very tight and responsive. No slop in the worm gear. Is in great order.
7. Dash paint and interior is nice. Paint is good on the dash. Pictures show that. The column could use a little touch up where the keys have rubbed the paint off.
8. The cowl hood does not have all of the original flaps and mechanisms.
It does however work. The breather pops right up into sight from the drivers seat of the car.

86irocz
Nov 22nd, 04, 02:09 AM
im going to throw my two cents in ...if you really do decide to go out there and buy it ...PLEASE do it in the morning when its cold ...cold start it up and see how it turns over ...i didnt and learned the hard way with my 86 :( ....and now its in the shop having all kinds of little work ...if your a mechanic ...take another one with you! ...inspect her out before really deciding to go through with the deal ......i learned some really crappy things about my car over the past few weeks but she should be up and running soon! but just dont want what happened to me to happen to anyone else

blownNinjected
Nov 22nd, 04, 05:34 AM
Thank you for the good advice. This forum has been a great help. I'm still asking all the questions I can before hand. I'm in California and the car is in Indianapolis. I hope I can get a million questions in before I go out and see the car.

86irocz
Nov 22nd, 04, 07:11 AM
haha im looking at buying another camaro thats going to strictly be a project car so ...im looking to buy a pos smile.gif hehe since i already got one right now why not buy another! and add to the crowd! cause now my parents doubt im going to keep these cars good or fix them

Jeff H
Nov 22nd, 04, 07:21 AM
I wouldn't even consider that a COPO clone. It's a 6 cyl car that now has a big block in it. It would take quite a bit of work and detailing to get that car too look like a real COPO. So look at it from the perspective that it's a 6 cyl car with a big block swap. Depending on how solid the body really is, it might be worth $15K IMO.

blownNinjected
Nov 22nd, 04, 08:57 AM
I dropped the COPO expectation awhile ago. It's a nice street car. I'm more interested in getting rid of the VW, but don't want to loose on the Camaro. My hobby is 66-67 Nova's and 67 Corvettes, so Camaros are not too far off and this will be my first.

my 67 pro-street car (http://www.orchidgreenhouse.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=3) and others.

Unreal
Nov 22nd, 04, 03:43 PM
Been thinking about this for awhile.....if you are in Calif, why are you sold on buying a car in Indy? California is a mecca for rust free muscle. Why not just look around until you find one you can physically inspect? If you are sold on this one, see if you can get a cheap ticket to inspect it before you buy. Just my opinion.

BTW, that's an aftermarket steering wheel, not an original Rosewood.

Mr. C
Nov 22nd, 04, 05:12 PM
Unreal is right on, Indiana uses tons of salt in the winter. This area is known as the Rust Belt. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

86irocz
Nov 23rd, 04, 02:16 AM
trust me around here in the easternnnn part ...its hard to find good strong bodies anymore :( ...there all eaten alive by the salt from the winter and the hard cold winters ...my 86 iroc z somehow was taken care of ...but im going to get her stripped and repainted lets hope she doesnt look like the diseasters ive seen on this board !! ...and i dunno that car doesnt seem to have any rust on it ....i think this guy should interrogate the person selling it to him ...ask him how it was kept in the winter and was it driven in the rain and all kinds of questions ....more questions you ask the more annoyed they get ...eventaully they just spill everything ! ha ...well i found that out by calling the person who sold me my 86 ...like 2-3 times a day buggin him about little things then finally he talked to me for like an hour about everything wrong with it lol

no69x-44
Nov 23rd, 04, 03:46 AM
Just my quick 2 cents worth here too ... those round console gauges there ... not orginal either. It's really not a bad looking car, but it is what it is ... a driver. It's no special model, no special edition. It's a Wan-a-Be car so keep that in mind. If the car is over all as solid as you say, it's still a nice car. Just don't kid yourself as to what you are really buying.

blownNinjected
Nov 23rd, 04, 01:33 PM
Thank you for all the input. I purchased the car this eve and should have it in about 3 - 4 weeks depending I find a good car transport service. I found DAS for door-to-door for $1300.00, does anybody know anybody else that is good?

NOTE TO ELIMINATE SOME CONFUSION:

The car is a California car, he stated that in the first conversation. It has NO rust anywhere. I see this deal as an oportunity to get rid of the VW. The car has won several 1st place car shows, he showed me proof and most recent as well. I'm not looking for a show car, I have several now. I'm not looking for a # matching car. I''m looking for a fun car to drive on occasion. I'm looking to race the car, I have several race cars for that. I was not looking to buy a car, but somebody offered a trade and I see it as a trade up for me. Again, Thank you for all the input and I'll keep coming back here for who knows what. I enjoed this webite.

blownNinjected - www.chevyonly.info (http://www.chevyonly.info)

smile.gif

dawg
Nov 24th, 04, 03:14 AM
that is no where close to a COPO!
COPOs looked almost like a plain jane with the goodies installed.
But it seems like a nice car none the less.
just needs a bit of TLC and a few grand to make it pop.
from the looks of the trunk area I would investigate for rust in there.specially up under the rear lower window panel.
I would take the car to a body shop and have a trained eye look at it.
I wonder why thr guy is selling it as a copo clone when it looks nothing like one???

Unreal
Nov 24th, 04, 02:40 PM
Many COPOs were indeed, Plain Jane, but many were also decked out... rallys, Style trim or RS, custom interior, console, etc. Any RPO available on L78 was available on COPO.

clill
Nov 25th, 04, 05:28 AM
Call Fred at Concours Transport...253-973-3987. He hauls all my junk.

blownNinjected
Nov 25th, 04, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by clill:
Call Fred at Concours Transport...253-973-3987. He hauls all my junk. Thank you, I will..

Stewie
Nov 29th, 04, 04:10 AM
Nice hot rod. It would look real sweet with a set of Torque Thrust wheels in the chrome finish.
You said a nasty word around this Website "Copo Clone". Everyone gets a little antsy when you use those terms.
I see your point in moving the VWya. Love the black and the wheel well trim will finish it off. Seat covers might look nice in the houndstooth.
Have fun with it. The beauty of it is that it is a hot rod and you can put your stamp on it.
I did the same thing. Sold my numbers match 30,000 mile Z/28 and bought a 68 Coupe that I can work on. A driver that I can work with.
Not rich enough, that my fun is in the having! My fun is in the doing.
Good Luck

CamarosRus
Dec 1st, 04, 01:52 AM
Hope my "Day 2" 69 COPO clone fairs a little better in the judging......Here's a few pics
Chuck S

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/1LeftSideProfile.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/28ca7576.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/Eng.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/2004_0508Image0008.jpg

coporic
Dec 6th, 04, 03:12 PM
Beware of DAS auto-transport., they give a really cheap rate, but when you drop the car off they tell you the additional rate if you want any insurance coverage for the car in case of damage, its like an additional $50. per $1000 value of the car.
Other companies have coverage included with the shipping cost.
Check it out before you confirm with them.
**************************************************
1969 CAMARO RS YENKO replica. ( For Sale )
http://www.hometown.aol.com/coporic/images/side1.jpg

frankk
Dec 6th, 04, 06:04 PM
Chuck, what color do you call that? It looks really smart.

CamarosRus
Dec 6th, 04, 08:11 PM
My 69 CLONE is painted Butternut Yellow, but I cant confirm if it matches the original factory color.......Chuck

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/LeftProfile.jpg