i have a 700+ hp 548" big block going in a 69 camaro for street/strip usage,the prc radiator looks like a good choice based on comments from earlier posts,spal has an "extreme" 16" 3000 cfm fan that is thinner than the lincoln mark8,but is the mark 8 rated at more than 3000 cfm??

You may want to check out the link below. They will custom build you a complete cooling system tailored to your needs at a very reasonable price. I just had a custom aluminum radiator with shroud, dual Spal fans, wiring harness and catch can for approximately the same price as piecing it together myself.

http://www.alumrad.com/

Rod

With the kind of hp you are generating, you will want the highest efficiency (and shear area) radiator and biggest airmover system you can get!!!!

Everyone knows I am a big supporter of PRC and they make great stuff, but my math tells me that you will have problems unless you design a huge fan system (3000cfms won't get it in ALL driving conditions) and super size radiator.

Maybe a consideration is going bigger on the tubes and overall size. While 1" twin row crossflows are great, I am a bit skeptical whether or not the radiator will be enough for your earth pounder?? I would certainly go for the MarkVIII fan (4000cfms) if you stick to the conventional 1" twin row.

However, to try to give you the best option you could achieve...albeit expensive...I would also consider looking at either the Griffin twin-row 1.25" tube big block models or the Fluidyne three row aluminum for Camaros. Both companies make excellent products. Fluidyne even makes racing radiators with four and big stainless 1.5" tubes....very high quality and most efficient on the market that I am aware of for autos.

Hope this helps.....we love spending your money, but for good reasons.

those are some good ideas guys, and thanx for the responses

Check out wizardcooling.com or call them they have a 3 row core with 1" tubes they also build it with an integrated shroud and the finnish work is like no other.

i just ordered mine from ron davis....just under 1100...i will post when i get it....

Wizard Cooling makes an incredible product! They have a 3 row aluminum rad with an intergated shroud and 4- 8" (1000CFM each) fans that can handle 1000hp.. Best of all it's a direct fit unit. This would be a great solution for you.

just came in the mail yesterday......going to install it next week....i got the BB radiator, with dual fans, custom shroud and relay kit to control the fans.....really nice unit..........for 1.1 large it should be.....

here are a couple pics

http://hobbystage.net/camaro/media.cgi?site=electronic2&folder=*&id=1114826987-006336

http://hobbystage.net/camaro/media.cgi?site=electronic2&folder=*&id=1114826893-006335

This is the first really upclose RD radiator like this I have seen from the URLs above. There is a potential problem? The dual fan openings may or probably will NOT be enough opening in the shroud to allow full air thru the radiator. So, if you see higher temps at speed or cruising......that is your problem. You may have enought shear area exposed to not have a problem.

Note the relief flaps on the dual Spal design. They are there for a reason!

http://www.carolinarodshop.com/Store/Spal/11_dual_spal.jpg

ummm.............i dont think so,,,,this setup is DIRECT bolt in unit for the 67-69 BIG BLOCK cars making up to 700HP.........

not sure on your shroud theory, but i will pass your hypothesis on to the designers/engineers at Ron Davis.

thanks for the input......

not trying being an ass,,,but your claim argues against this manufacturers claim....

the WHOLE reason i bought this unit......

Well...you probably don't know my background or whatever and not really important per se, but I designed nuclear cooling systems and continue to design automotive cooling systems professionally. I offer that I know a smiggin about this subjet. But, Spal has been making fans for decades for world class OEM use such as Volvo, BMW, Mercedes and a few other folks......even Ron Davis uses them. I would think THEY would know what they are doing too, whereas they profile this very issue in several product handouts....the lack of reliefs on competitors shrouds making then less efficient and in some cases causing overheating at speed. This is why they have them. So, don't take my word, at least take theirs.

And, while I was trying to be polite in mentioning this in the above post in trying to warn you if this happened... and couch this in a "thinking way"..... I will just blurt out that I have seen this very problem on THREE OF THEIR DESIGN APPLICATIONS with air restriction at high freeway speeds. After putting in one-way rubber reliefs on all four corners....problem solved. There..I said it!

And, it's really easy to understand. The incoming air to the front of the total square area of the front of the radiator HAS TO BE FUNNELED thru the rear outlet holes in the shroud opening. Pretty simple really. If the incoming air cannot escape thru the holes in the rear fast enough building high pressure at the back of the radiator between the shroud and radiator, this blocks and or slows the flow of air thru the radiator and lessens the efficiency of the radiator. This is a huge problem on streetrods with narrow nosed radiators and shrouds designed exactly like theirs. In fact two of the aforementioned problems where in fact on streetrods, the others muscle car applications.

And don't get me wrong. I am NOT poo-pooing your choice or purchase. Look, these Ron Davis radiators are great looking quality pieces as far as I know and its money well spent. And... like I said, the shear opening area of the two giant 16" fans may be enough to never see an actual problem for you. But, the design (or lack of a proper one) makes the whole system less efficient when pushing thru the air without rear relief flaps (that open one way and close when the fans run) so in effect taking away some of that which you bought it for. That's all I am saying.

I welcome you to "cut and paste" this whole dissertation in a email to them and they can reach me at hotrodsrj@bellsouth.net for comments. I have been this route before with them much to their chagrin I am sure.

One more issue while I think about it. Never buy multi-pass radiators from these folks for your street machines but instead purchase their single-pass ones. They are great pieces, but multi-pass radiators are made for constant high rpms and are very inefficient on the street compared to single-pass designs.

Again, "racing doesn't translate to the street" in this case.

You have your opinions, and on some applications(not this particular one) you may have small but valid point. However, after speaking with several informed gentlemen in the arena of coolings systems, fluid dynamics and a couple other "shadetree" mechanics.......I was assured....thats all they were... OPINIONS, in this case.

Please if you are going to make a statement, at least get the facts straight.These are single pass radiators. And they were designed for these specific cars....NOT circle track, nascar,dune buddy or whatever.... :clonk:

After reading countless testimonials on this exact setup in very similiar cars in very similiar driving habits and conditions..... i have come to a conclusion, my problem is not cooling... It obvious... :rolleyes: need i say it? "everybody is an EXPERT" is my problem...

i didnt come here posting on cooling issues while driving...

I honestly appreciate your input, i really do......

I am wondering, with your expertise in radiator design. Why you havent began your own company or design? What was the name of it again? I havent heard of it. I have heard of Ron Davis,PRC,Griffin,Fluidyne,Be Cool among others.. May want to look into it..

Thanks again...

PS. i am done with this p.i.s.s.ing war, for some reason you dont like these guys....So, this thread is not benefiting anyone at all...Thanks again.

I think you have misread or misinterpreted my intent... let me take a step back and say that I am sorry if I have come across completely dissing your selection. Not so believe me. I stated what I did hoping to help just in case a problem arose. I think they(Ron Davis) makes pretty good products in general and I DO know (I never said it was a dual pass) that you have a single-pass design (I made the recommendation of not selecting a multi-pass just in case people see one over there and consider its use...that's all).

The whole reason I stated what I did is because I have seen this problem with "unrelieved" shroud designs before with their products (and others) and just wanted to tip you off (not pxxx you off) just in case you saw a temperature rise at interstate speeds. This is not just their problem and it's an easy one to fix as long as you are aware it's going on.

In-so-far as credentials are concerned ... since you asked.... I will offer up some sustenance for your prusial. First, I am a multiple-engineering degreed (3) and A&P licensee, Professional engineer in multiple states. I specialize as a fluid dynamist as well as an electrical power and electronics engineer by profession and occasionally do the aircraft thing as well. I am a professional car builder too.

I have designed all kinds of open and closed-loop cooling and heating systems for large applications such as nuclear and conventional vessels for power plants systems and industrial use. That was earlier in my career. I also have over 208 differing patents that were either developed my myself or a direct participant in the field(s) relating to such. I have published over 55 differing articles in my field(s). I will also state for the record that automotive cooling is a piece of cake compared to other technologies. I also do have several radiator designs to my name that are commonly used in liquid-cooled aircraft applications, something that is much harder to design than plain automotive or racing applications for that matter.

In the automotive arena, I do special non-conforming cooling systems for special racing applications and/or custom made applications for streetrods, classics and/or muscle cars....and get real money to design such. I work with car builders, engine builders and even have a consulting contract with two popular racing teams. I also do independent engineering and technical studies and testing of products for differing magazines as well as write articles at large for such. I have participated on OEM engineering councils as a special "independent contributor" to rethink and test certain factory products. So, I think I can wear a badge of "expert" ..don't you?

As far as namedropping companies are concerned, if you think thats a measure of wisdomic knowledge (and I don't).... I was one of the originating pioneers of a small company in the early nineties that I help foster into a billion that's with a "B" ,dollar related public company. The name is not important because you probably have not heard of it anyway.

While I know it's hard to differentiate the real posters and the illusion artists out here, believe me it was not my intent to second-guess your selection or purchase as I have stated. But after what I thought was a pretty "flip" post/response at what I thought was a helpful suggestion....well I had to defend myself a smiggin and here we are.

So, I can see how you might think I was picking on ya...but not meant that way and no offense meant or taken. I do think your radiator is a great looking piece and I am sure you will get many miles and hours of use from it!

well, you dont have to simplify it on my account :D

i just think alot of information was given, when really not asked for..

In my particular case. With your background, you know darn well i am not going to have a cooling issue when driving...and i would like you to give me an example of someone with this setup who has run into problems with your stated findings.......On a 1st-4th Gen Fbody.......since we are on Camaro.net

your a brilliant man it seems, but come on now... you were just throwing your weight around on this thread....now werent you?

i personally just think alot of people overstep ettiquette and manners on message boards in general.......Myself included......although i am aware and do make an effort to refrain from it......

no harm no foul......... just put yourself in my shoes....i dont even have the radiator in the car yet....and your telling me i may have cooling issues while driving.....we could lay a friendly wager on it, if you like ;)


its all good. ...anyways...i am going to get pics and results posted up when car is mobile and weather conditions change(heat and humidity).

WEll... thanks for the "brilliant" label.... but I assure you that I am just a redneck with a great education that is not brilliant.....but busy....and eager to learn from others! That is my strong suit.

Nuf said, send us pics of the install and I hope all goes well. In so far as wager'n a bet, well I never gamble ever. I lose enough of my money as it is!

intall Pics up on webpage...hobbystage site...not angelfire...

install was easy, have both fans kicking on at 180-F at thermostat housing..see in pics..

the only issue i have now, is when it idles for extended periods it gets up to 195ish(cylinder head temp).....fans kick on,,,then cool it down to sensor setpoint and process repeats.......... i think that is from the stock thermostat holding back the high flow edlebrock victor series water pump......i have a feeling as soon as i get a high performance balanced thermo i should see the temp fluctuate right around thermo opening at idle as well.....along with the fans running for less time at idle...

makes sense?????probably not..:)

going down the road is perfect, right around thermo opening and closing..180 depending on how i drive of course....

still chasing down some stray voltages...got it at around 250-300 mV key off and running...... i think i can lower it...going to flush it again, still not crystal clear water/coolant mix

i am using 25% G0-5, 75% distilled H20,a bottle of water wetter and a sacrificial zinc anode

any more suggestions? please give them

hey steve,

got a question...how are you overdriving your pumps? where did you buy the pulley?

ps...clarified my previous post...a little better :clonk: