Wondering at what point do you want these. As of now was only figuring on a 400hp ish motor (may go a bit more)? Really would like to not have to cut up the body. Would like to keep the body in original condition if possible in which I'd rather not put in connectors or wider rear wheel wells. Thoughts?

It's mainly going to be a cruiser type of vehicle... not run at the track every other weekend and launching on slicks.

Thanks
Buddy P

I'm gonna take it this is a coupe?
If you are thinking of mid HP upgrades, your body dtructure is in good shape and you limit the amount of 'bite' the car gets in mild competition then they may not really be necessary in your case.
There are many reasons to consider them though. If you forsee further performance improvements, your body structure has some know (or unknown) flaws and/or shows any signs of stress from past issues, you plan on tightening up the suspension system to the point the body structure becomes the only compliant component in your vehicle, or you are looking for that last little bit of performance tuning for competition.
I've had street cars with suspensions modifications, solid bushings and subframe mounts and no subframe connectors for many years with no problems.
This doesn't mean I'm not a fan of them, I am.
I had them in my Firebird dirt-track car.

Here is a past post discussing suspension mods and connectors for a good handling car - http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30450&highlight=subframe+connectors

Be sure and do a good 'search' of other posts on subframe connectors, there is a wealth of info in them!

Hopefully others will chime-in here shortly with their experiences.

Thanks for the reply! The absolute most HP that car would see is probably 600hp (and that's if a get a heck of a deal on a motor). I'm probably going ot be in the market for a crate 383 or similar putting me around the 400-450hp mark to be realistic. I will have suspension upgrades but not to the extreme. We're just talking poly bushings, larger sway bar, shocks and dropping 2" up front and 1 1/2" in the rear. That's pretty much it (and all I can really afford to get involved with). And this would be with larger wheels and low profile tires so deffinatly nothing that bits hard.

competition engineering has bolt in bars that you can use. I belive Jegs has their name on some too. I really like my bolt ins, as they firmed up the body alot !

http://www.competitionengineering.com/catalog/CategoryDisplay.asp?CatCode=11001

Buddy,
I am moving this thread to the performance forum. That way if anyone is searching for posts in the future they might be able to find it easier. You might get some better answers there anyway. Lets keep this area for engines only.

Check you car's body at both rear glass lower "v's" b/c there is where it will start showing the stress of dragging/aggressive driving first, imho..

It will have small tell-tale cracks in the sheetmetal and this say's it is working too hard to try to hold itself together under power!!

Mine has them and mine has always been kinda mild motored except for the hopped up, 11.5 to 1 CR., .060" over 409 "W" motor I had in it for a while waaaay back there before I got rid of it but was lucky enough to get it back..

The old hopped up "W" motor was like a BB that wrapped up like a SB!!!

pdq67

They are fairly cheap and easy to install. I personally prefer weld in but, bolt ins are better than nothing.

Your car will flex without them no doubt about it. Have you ever even jacked the car up? If you put a set of jack stands under it and let the jack down, watch how much the front continues to drop after the sub frame hits the jack stands. If you know someone with a car that has frame connectors watch them jaqck up their car, the difference is night and day. The car will launch and handle much better with them.

I agree in a mild performance/street car you can get by with out them. If you plan to run sticky tires or ever see the track (or run it hard in the corners) I think they are a must in any uni-body car. Usually 1st gens start showing stress at the above mentioned points and you will see the doors won't want to open or close properly. It's better to just prevent this from happening by installing connectors. If you really think you will ever get to the 600HP (or even 500-550), then a roll bar/cage will be needed to help prevent twisting the body up. Once the damage is done it is very hard to "undo".

Sounds like I better install them, especially if your saying to put a cage in at 500hp... Does anybody make subframe connectors that are bent to form around the floor pan so you don't have to cut through the floor pan?

Thanks for the info guys!

Yes, they make "form" fit connectors. I don't know the part number or manufacture but, I have seen them.

The 500HP level and roll bar/cage, is only my opinion. I'm sure others will have other opinions. It really doesn't take much HP to bend, stress, crack, tweak, sheet metal. Sheetmetal is all you have between the front and rear sub frame. If you never really hook hard or punish the car then a 700HP won't hurt them. It really depends on the use. For the price and hassle I think even 6 banger Camaros should install them. Once you see the difference with and without, I don't know why anyone would not run them (only exception being "correct" restoration).

I just installed some CE bolt in's in my '67. They fit well and I didn't have to cut any of the floor. The hardest part was the clip-nuts up inside the body. The front portion of the SC can be bolted/welded on the sides for additional strength, as I did with the supplied bolts and ny-lock nuts. Hope this helps.

NRMEDIC984, who's connectors do you have and where can I get them?

Camaroman, thanks for the input. If I can find the set that forms around the floor pans then I will install them. Appreciate the input!!!

In my opinion, any unibody car can benefit greatly from subframe connectors regardless of the engine's power level.

Aside from the possibility of throwing the car out of wack by means of power output, your suspension will feel much more positive with some subframe connectors (and especially with solid body mounts in addition).

BuddyP: I got the Competition Engineering subframe connectors from Jegs. I specifically got the bolt in ones, not the weld in. They installed easily.

Slide them in the rear of the S/F around the back bushings and then use a small floor jack as a third hand to push each one up next to the floor pan as you locate the three bolts.

Cornholio mentioned doing it this way first AND boy does in make it easier to do, inho...

pdq67

I just installed a set of Global West subframe connectors on my 68.They are tubular and they are bent to follow the contour of the floor pans. They must be welded in the rear and you could either bolt them or weld them in the front, I ended up welding them up front also. They come with a set of interlocking solid aluminum subframe bushings for the front mounting points. They look and fit great, although they are pricey at $225 a set. You can get them directly from Global West (http://www.globalwest.net/Camaro%20and%20Firebird%201967%20through%201981%20 suspension%20parts.htm) or NPD.


Mike

Here is a set just thought I would point them out.

http://www.detroitspeed.com/SubframeConnectors10.html

Jack