I have a 1969 convertible I have been trying off and on for ten years now to restore.. I have owned this car since 1984... My newest problem I am having now is I need the bolts and whatever else I need to install the top convertilble frame to the car body.. I noticed on one of the convertible frame there is a thick metal round sleeve with a thick round washer all made together, also there is a square hole thru this sleeve... Please,, does anybody know were I could find one of these, there are two, one for each side of the frame.. also does anybody know if this is what the lift cylinders bolt connects thru.?????.. I have absolutely no clue how to reinstall this frame correctly... anybody out there who can give me some much needed knowledge, Please Help me.... :confused:

Sounds like you are describing a "male hinge". For convert top info get a "Body by Fisher" Body service manual. It has a section on top frame adjustments and a few pics. Also covers window adjustments and lots of other good info. What side hinge do you need? Yes the top cly connects to this "male hinge"

Hey Gene,, Thank's for the info... Do you know if it takes a special square bolt, I am assuming it does because the hole in this sleeve is square.. which seems odd to me because the hole on the lift shafts are round.. I wish I knew how to take a picture of the part I'm talking about and put it on this page... I'll order a body service manual, maybe that will tell me what I need to know.. Thank's again Gene, I greatly appreciate your help, anybody who has any picture's on how all this all connects up would be a very valuable help to me also.. Thank's again for any help....

Wacky
Yes it is a special carriage bolt( for square hole with serrations to hold adjustment). it is so you can adjust the top "sag" at joint over door glass. E-mail me your pic and I can post it for you. If you look at the male hinge you have it will have a L or R on for left or right so you will know what side you need. Is the carriage bolts and the 1 male hinge bracket all you are missing?
http://mysite.verizon.net/gene_sc/images/male_hinge.jpg

Hello Gene.. I may be in big trouble here.. The picture you show, I don't think I even have this on my frame!!!!!!... Okay,, let me see if I understand this right,, At the first rail {round} that comes next after the header bow which would be about where the door would be, there is a hinge point there, Is this where this piece your showing would be located.???... At this point I see a set screw I am guessing is for some kind of adjustment.???.. Now back to the piece I was originally asking about, it is located at the back of the frame system, close to the well area.. There is a part of the frame that bolts to the car body that has a plate like piece with two holes and there is a seperate bar before that, that has one hole in it, this was the piece that I originally was asking about.. this bar has a round hole that has a seperate piece, a thick metal male sleeve that has a thick round metal washer all attached, looks like it was machined this way... This round sleeve fits in the round hole of the bar I was talking about,, it is this round sleeve that has a square hole in it... this round sleeve is 5/8 ths. of an inch long,, and 5/8 th. of an inch wide,, the square hole is 3/8ths. of an inch square.., the washer like piece made machined with this sleeve is 1-1/4 inch wide.. it is made for I'm guessing a square bolt to go thru it.. this piece is round on the outside to fit into the round hole in the lift bar, {i'm guessing this is a lift bar}... this bar that I'm talking about is close to the back of the frame it hangs down and attaches to the car body or a lift cylinder... it is attached to the frame mechanism before the last rail that the window attaches to... this sleeve rotates in the {lift bar?} ... with,, i'm guessing, a partial square bolt so the lift bar can move but the sleeve can't.... I know this is probly getting pretty confusing by now, I am by know means good at describing things, especially this way.. {sorry}... But,, anyway,, I really do appreciate your time and effort Gene.. I will have to get my daughter here to take some pictures with my digital camera and see if we can send them to you.. I may have a "REAL" problem here... This is not the original frame that came off of this car.. I bought it 6 or 7 yrs. ago, & was told it was complete, {except for the header bow}.. {I know now it's not!!!}..... Thank's.... Dale gonewacky

P.S.... Gene,,, by the way,, it is this sleeve that I have only one of and I need two, one for each bar..

Wacky
the pic is of the male hinge... it holds the top to the body...sorry for the confusion.... I think I know what part you are talking about... I'll try to remember to take a pic of one. I may have an extra

Hello Gene... I might have a guardian angel.. I checked with a friend who just happened to have a 1967 convert. which 95 % of this classic is shot!!!...except for the top frame and bolts... I believe it has the parts I will need... The one thing I am trying to find out now is,,, does a power top and a manual top connect up the same way to the car body.????????... Mine is a power top..And my donor car has a manual top.. I realize that the lift cylinder connects to the same part of the frame, but, is there any particular way that the lift cylinder is fastened to anything {bolted to the car},,?. the repop lift cylinders I bought have two holes at the top end of the cylinder on opposite sides of the cylinder sides, but they are not threaded,, I went to the Ohio swap meet at Springfield Ohio today, and there was only one convertible camaro car there, The guy just sold the car and he did'nt want me messing around the car so I could get a good look at the way it was all connected,, what a bummer.... I actually came home completely empty handed, found absolutely no parts at all that I needed,... I will not give up on this car, one of these days I will have it finished....... anybody got any helpful info,?????.. Thank's again Gene,, I really appreciate your help and time... Dale's gonewacky

Oh yeah,, Gene I just remembered, That sleeve I have been asking about, On the widest part, the part I was calling a washer like part of the sleeve, it is serrated,, and I think maybe the male hinge you showed me is part of what this sleeve and bolt mounts to... Do you think so????

I know they do.....
here are some pics of the carrage bolts & sleeve, top frame and basic layout of top frame
http://mysite.verizon.net/gene_sc/images/convert/bolts.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/gene_sc/images/convert/bolts2.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/gene_sc/images/convert/convert_inner.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/gene_sc/images/convert/convert_top.jpg

OH MAN,,, That is IT!!!!!!!!........ The power of the internet, It's guys like you that make trying times a little more tolerable... thank's so much Gene... I must be blessed.. somehow, so far,(knock on wood), Everytime I have come up against a brick wall, I have prevailed.. Obviously I am quite excited,, I can't thank you enough.. Now, for more questions, ..... Where did you find the exploded view,??... and do you know how, or what you use to fastened the lift cylinder to the body, does it take a special bolt,?????...the two holes in my lift cylinder are not threaded.. does it take a bolt/pin type of connection.????... and by far not my last question, does anybody know if I can use 'ALL' bolts, male hinges, and whatever from the manual top, and use them to connect up my power top frame.??????????????????.. I know I won't be using the manual spring assembly on the power top setup..duh... Oh man,, this is just way too cool.. I just can't thank you enough.. I am so grateful I came across this web sight!!!!!.. I am sure, I will be back to help anybody I can from my experiences in a very stressfull, trying and very self satisfying journey in restoring an american classic.. Man, what is happening here, I'm starting to sound like one of those testimonals you read in magazines... : )

Wacky
the power top cly are held in by bolts that have a pin on the end( bolts that hold the manual top spring are the same), that goes into a nylon bushing in the top cly. ( the only part you have to get... try www.groundup.com (http://www.groundup.com) or NPD has them probalby others as well) the rest of the bolts are interchangeable from manual to power. The expolded view is from the "Body by Fisher" manual

Hello again Gene.. One quick question...(yeah right :) -- is the lift cylinder only attached to the frame at the end of the shaft where the round eye is.????????... or is each lift cylinder bolted to the frame somewhere else.??????... I can't imagine it just hanging there... or is this the two bolts with a pin on the end that your talking about.???..I ordered the nylon bushings that you mentioned, and they fit the round eye at the end of the lift piston, are these nylon bushings used at the bolting point to hold the lift cylinder ridged????... I hope I am not getting annoying with these questions... I just want to be sure I completely understand... I am going to order the ("Body by Fisher") manual... I am hoping to go and take out the manual system from the donor car tomorrow, this will help me alot in bolting mine back in... I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I really do Appreciate your time and patience with me : ) Thank's again Gene

Hello again Gene,, I've got another one,, it may be possible I've got a manual frame, I was told it was for a power top when I originally bought it.. I was reading another post and they were talking about there is a difference between a manual and power frame, and if I install the power system to a manual top, it could damage the manual top frame beyond repair.. I don't have the original power top frame to compare it to.. Do you know what I need to look for/at to determine which is which.????????????.. Dale's gonewacky

the easiest way is to send me a pic of it .... close ups of the side rails.....( maybe search ebay for a power top frame and compare to yours.... cly are attached the the eye and by 2 bolts with pins that go into the bracket in the 1st pic I posted.... a manual will help you alot... I don't have a convert with a top frame in it to take a pic.

This site is the best,!!!!!!!!!!... I shall return.. Thank's again Gene.. :)

Helloooooooooooo Gene...... Guess What,....... Life Is Good... I drove over four hours yesterday to remove the manual top from the donor car and "All" the parts were there, the top frame and mounting hardware is in great shape and All complete, after all these years setting in that leaky barn, absolutely nothing had been removed... :) ...Also,, to confirm what I read elsewhere in this forum.. There is absolutely a difference in the construction between a manual top and a power top.!!!!!....The frame is constructed with different pieces and heavier framing at the hinge point... Luckily mine is the power top, but, after seeing how great of shape this manual top is in, I realize how much money I could have saved by just installing a manual top... ( I found a pink wire & a mystery)... Gene,, Here I go again, :) ... There is a pink wire that comes from my glove box and went down the passenger side towards the trunk, I thought someone along the way had added some accessory or something.. I mentioned it to my donor car friend and he said you know what,????... I have this 1969 power trunk latch that has a pink wire coming out of it... Oh man,, I can't believe this,, another mystery... the latch that is on my car is not a power latch.. someone may have removed it... Gene,, is there anyway I can find out if this car was originally equipped with the power truck latch,????... I don't have a build sheet or the protect-plate... (believe it or not I actually still have the protecto- plate for the other car I have, a absolutely confirmed authentic 1968 SSRS 396 375 horse coup,, rally green... ) and There is absolutley NO wiring going back to where my power top pump is... Do you know if They make a complete power top wiring kit and I am assuming the layout should be in a parts manual somewhere, I hope..... Gene, Like I've said before,, I can't thank you enough for your help and support, I realize how lucky I was to come across this sight when I did, and absolutely, extremely lucky to find the convert frame as fast and complete as it did.. The time is right,,, after all these years (over 20 yrs.) of just sitting out there, things are going good,, I 'Will' finish this car, with my stubborness, a web sight like this one and people like you helping me, I will,, 'get R done' :)

Wiring and all other needed parts can be found at www.groundup.com www.1stgen.com and other repo parts vendors. Don't know about the trunk opener

Hello Again Gene :) ... I've got another question, :) ,, I just recently sandblasted my power top frame, I was afraid to take each individual frame part off of the frame to sand blast for fear of it not going back to original factory spec. my question is... what should I use to clean any residue from grease, dirt, and primarily the media sandblast dust out of the jointed areas.??????.. I am afraid if I use water it will start rusting before I get it painted... I have used metal ready acid before, but I have been hearing some bad things about using acid, especially in seams and jointed areas... Do you suggest I paint it with 'POR-15, or polyurethane???.. I am concerned if I use POR-15 in the jointed areas it may dry stuck together... Does anybody have any suggestions as to how I should finish off this power top frame and what shade of gloss paint for original appearence????... please help.. :)

Sorry I didn't jump in on this thread sooner. I have parts from a manual and power top frame laying on my garage floor being refinished.

You will absolutely do damage to the manual frame if you hook the cylinders to it. I can show you pictures of exactly where the frame buckles LOL.

I would not have sand blasted your rails because the grit will get into the hinge points. I would work the joints while blasting with high pressure air to get the grit out. Follow up with a petroleum solvent of your choice. For the parts with riveted hinge joints, I plan to sand most of the paint off and then blast with walnut shells.

The problem with acid is that it will attack and embrittle the bellville washers between the joints. It's also hard to get out of the joints once in there and could cause additional problems down the road.

For refinishing, I plan to go with DP90 epoxy primer and either a black urethane or laquer paint. I like the look of laquer on interior parts and figure it should hold up well. I looks like the factory shot the frame assembled so I will do my last coat with everything together.

POR is for painting over rust as the name implies. It actually needs a coat of rust to react with to get a bite. It's also UV sensative so it's a poor choice on two accounts. If the factory (no primer) laquer has held this well for so long, you should do fine with a good epoxy primer and compatible top coat.

John

Hi Hammered... Thanks for the help... Did you take your frame apart where it bolts together and sanded it.???... I am a bit leary to do so for fear it will not go back together the way it was from the factory... I'll take your advice and use epoxy primer and I'll probably use black laquer, I agree, I think it will look the best, like factory.... I will try to use high air pressure to get rid of the blasting media.. what do you use to clean your frame before you paint primer on it.????????? Also,,, a very important question to me is.. How do I take the tack strips off,?? and there is a flat metal strip also that I am afraid to bend and brake off that needs to come off for sanding underneath it... any more info will be greatly appreciated... This is one great sight !!!!! :) thank's again.... Dale's Gonewacky

gonewacky,

Since I haven't put it back together yet, I can't comment on it going back together. However, I took about 80 pictures of the top as I disassembled it and marked all the fastners and put them in small ziplock bags. I could'nt believe how many fastners I had when I was done!

Since I'm using parts from different cars to make a good frame, I really had no worries about messing up the factory adjustment.

I sand blasted the parts that had no riveted joints. I will use a DA sander and blast with walnut shells to do the parts with riveted pivot points.

I always clean everything with PPG wax&grease remover, then blow everything off and shoot the paint. A tack rag doesn't work very well with raw blasted metal so I don't bother with that. I've used PPG's epoxy primer for about 25 years and have always liked it. However, you must at least wear an excellent respirator or you will seriously regret your actions. The laquer can go on over the epoxy without sanding if you follow-up in the allowable time frame.

John

John Thank's for the reply.. I have some more questions.. there is a flat metal strip on the top part of the frame does it and the tack strips come off by removing screws from the bottom side of the frame rails.??? I am afraid to pry and bend it and brake it off, it needs to come off for sanding underneath it, does it pry off or is it fastened on with screws,?????... :) Dale

Dale,

If you're referring to the galvanized strip on the 2nd bow, it is attached by screws from the underside. I'm not sure how the tack strip is attached to the rear bow as I do not plan to remove mine. However, it looks like it's stapled to a metal base that is pressed into the bow. If you look closely, you can see how the short tack strips on the top side of the front bow are stapled to it. The tack strip on the rear bow appears to be stapled the same way.

John