We got the motor fired 3 weeks ago and broke in the cam and set the timming. Everything was fine and it cranked very fast. Now it cranks very slow and almost won't turn the motor over? any ideas?

The starter is a powermaster xs torque mini rated to 18:1 comp, i have 10.5:1 ( i replaced this with a new one ). the battery is brand new ( i tried another batteries just in case) and the car is wired with the painless kit. After changing the starter and the battery i still have the problem so i hooked the battery directly to the starter to see how fast it would crank the motor and it was no different? HELP!!!

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Try retarding the timing some . If timing is too advanced, it can make the engine harder to turn over...

Make sure the distributor hold down isn't allowing it to turn in the block. That's about all I can think of.

When your rings seated the compression increased.
Try cranking with the coil wire off and see if it's better. If no better it's most likely a more powerful starter that's needed.

If it cranks over fast enough, it's a timing problem, too advanced.
David

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I have seen new Battery cables that aren't properly crimped or maybe there is paint under the neg. cable where it bolts to the block. Are they good cables ? Did you try jumper cables ? Is the alternator charging ? When running the rear bearing in the alt. will be magnetized if it is charging. I have fooled myself before by changing batteries trying to solve the same problem only to find out later that both batteries were low. I would also pull the plugs and try to spin the engine. Turn it by hand at the crank with the plugs out. Does it turn hard ? Please let us know what you find out.

i hook up the battery to the starter with jumper cables bypassing the ignition and it still cranked slow. after it sits for awhile it will crank fast enough to start the motor and i checked the timming. it won't restart again for a few hours. the car likes it at around 15 to 20 anything lower than 15 it backfries throught the carb. All the cables are good, i made them myself with high grade copper power wire and gold termanials and s sodered them. ive been making cables for 14 years in the car audio industry. I tried turning the engine by hand ( with the plugs in) and it will tur to a point and then i can't move it any more. i'm going to try it with the plugs out tonight. I was able to turn the motor by hand before, did someting happen in the motor maybe?

Jenndon, check out this thread. I had a similar problem with my 454 and got a lot of good suggestions from these guys.
http://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum1/HTML/004664.html

thanks billydean, i'll check it out.

I took the plugs out and the motor is hard to turn by hand. i used a 1/2" breaker bar with a long handle. the battery is in the trunk, it's grounded to the body with 4 ga wire. The body is grounded to the sub frame with 4 ga wire and i have a 4ga going from the subframe to the trans. The reason i did it from the trans is that i'm trying to hide it. i used a meter to chek and the motor is grounded. I was told it could be a bearing? The car would crank and start very easy for the past 4 weeks. Now it would even start. Sometimes it will start if it is cold but if i shut it off, it won't crank enough to restart it.

Drain the Oil into a clean container and examine it for metal Particles. Cut the Oil Filter apart with a Saw and see if there is metal in there.

i'll try that. The guy who built my motor is comming over to check it out
thanks

do you have a heat shield over the selenoid? I had the same problem turning over my 350cid and even replaced the starter, but after advice from a buddy i put on a heat shield and had no more problems.

do you have a heat shield over the selenoid? I had the same problem turning over my 350cid and even replaced the starter, but after advice from a buddy i put on a heat shield and had no more problems.

ok here's an update. Tried a 3rd battery, different brand and size 900 cca. when i start the motor the battery drops to 9.2 volts from 12.6 volts. I have the big Powermaster XS Torq. starter....do you think this starter need to run on a 16 volt battery? I replaced it with another one, the first one came from Summit and the 2nd one i got local. The starter seems to be pulling to much from the battery?

Any idea's?

Sounds more like the starter is having to work too hard. It might just be a very tight engine that will loosen up as you get some time on it. Did you ever drain the oil and check for particles ?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jenndon:
thanks billydean, i'll check it out.

I took the plugs out and the motor is hard to turn by hand. i used a 1/2" breaker bar with a long handle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How hard to turn, Feel any binding? funny noises? its Difficult to quantify "hard to turn" without comparing to another similar engine. Maybe you could try to spin a similar block without the plugs installed, and make a fair judgment on the level of difficulty to rotate the engine by hand.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jenndon:
[B. when i start the motor the battery drops to 9.2 volts from 12.6 volts
Any idea's?[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the 3.4volt difference is dropped across the wires, startermotor system. If the wires and started system equalled even one ohm, the cranking current would be limited to 3.4 amperes (12.6v - 9.2v /1 ohm). No load testing of GM (V8)starter motors pull approximately 50 amperes. So, to even get close to the normal pull of the starter system, the impedance would have to be &lt;0.1 ohm (34 amperes) I would expect voltage drop across the starter motor system to be &gt; 6 volts (@ 0.1 ohm) with a good battery. If you are confidentd in the wireing, you Might want to place the starter on a testing system (local auto parts stores have them) and verify that the the starter will pull 30 to 60 amperes and spin the starer to the proper rpm. Starter might have a loose brush or burnt armature wire, resulting in low current draw.

It is strange that it would start acting up in short order as you described. I would expect an electrical malfunction in the started itself, since you pretty much eliminated the wiring with the jumpercables to the starter. ( you did by pass the silenoid didn't you?)
good luck

My friend just called me...he thinks it might be vapor locked?
would that cause these problems?

It sounds like you have a big voltage drop from the battery in the trunk to the starter.

You might want to go up in cable size to a #2 or so. Someone else suggested making sure you have good grounds. I would agree with that as well.

Kel

From what you've posted, I suspect the motor is very tight. Vapor lock won't make it difficult to turn. I have 11:1 and don't have any problems with a stock starter. For a trunk mount battery, I personally would go with 0 or 2 gauge cable. However, your statement about how difficult it was to turn over by hand with the plugs out says the motor has very high friction.

I agree i have had a similar problem for some time....i run a double 00 to ford solenoid bypass the gm one i alos run a ground from the starter to the battery which has helped considerably but now i occasionally break the damn aluminum nose so i am investing in a 502 factory gm gear reduction starter only 200 new so i think that will help me also check to make sure trani isnt messed up is i t auto matic stick??? i have seen where people put new stick trani in and push the crank into block etc... but to me sounds like u need better larger cables from bat to starter i aint to sure about your starter i would defintiely take it some where with starter in car and have them hook up there amp tester and then crank it and see how many amps it pulls if it starts to get over 300 i would wonder stater..lots of variables invovled GOOD LUCK

i think i found the problem...the main power wire is to small (4ga). I took the battery for the trunk and set it next to the motor, i made a short power and ground wire, bypassed the ford sold. and it cranks over ver fast now...i'm goin to rewire the car with 1/0 now, that sould be big enough.

Glad to hear you nailed the problem.

I come across this problem quite a bit in my line of work.

***** UPDATE*****

Ran the 1/0 wire to the starter, upgraded the ground to 1/0 throught the floor to the frame and added another 4ga ground from the battery to the trunk floor.

The motor cranks so fast i thought the motor was going to fly out of the hood!!!

Problem solved...thanks for the input

From listening to all the above, it sounds Like you have a bearing problem. The motor cranks fine when it is cool but as soon as it warms up, you barely can turn it over due to the crank case tightening up. Bearings that have been over heated are the number one cause of your problem.

I suggest that you pull the motor and check the bottom end.