I have been thinking about changing over to an electric fan setup and I see some of you are using the fan and shroud assembly out of the Taurus/Sable. What years should I be looking for to get the best fit and performance? Do you use the one for the 3.0 or 3.8 engine? I have been looking at some on ebay and it appears as though the 3.8 has larger fan with more blades and the shroud is shaped to better cover the radiator. How much trouble is it to install one of these things?
Thanks in advance for any information you can provide,

Mark(aka Blue69)

Hey Mark....3.8l is the engine you want the fan from. I think late eighties mid nineties is the year taurus/sable you are looking for. I tried to get the latest year I could so it was maybe "newer" with less miles on it. I have yet to hook the fan up because I am waiting for the fan controller I purchased from dccontrol.com. I have been told that this is a very nice setup and easy to install, so I went with it. I am still working on the brackets to hold the fan in place. Good Luck!

Kevin

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll start looking for one from a 3.8. If you don't mind, let me know what it takes to get it to mount up. How much draw(amps) does one of these have?

With the dc control kit that both Kevin and I ordered, you don't need a relay. The control box ramps the speed of the fan up or down depending on the demand for more air flow for cooling. It is a slick setup. When it turns itself off it sound like a jet engine turning off. If I knew how to post pictures off my digital camera, I would post some of my install. It was easy.

Kevin, have you heard anything back from dc yet?

John
Montana

Nothing new yet John. Now that I know that 14 days is the normal turn around, I will just wait it out. I am excited about getting it and hooking it up hopefully this weekend. I will let you know how it goes John. I may need some tips from you since you are a experienced installer.

Kevin

Hey guys,

I was wondering if the DC kit will work with an LS1 fan set up?

Thanks!

-John

I have both units on my 67. The fan bolts up very easy to the radiator. I made some L brackets & bolted it up. sealed it up with weather stripping around the edges. The dc control unit is the best thing to use. otherwise you'll have to use relays. I tried it with relays, toggle switch & thermostat switch & it wasn't worth the trouble. The dc unit has been working flawlessly.

Side note, it took awhile to receive the controller. I found out they are 20 minutes away, but still took them awhile. I had to email them & get them to send it out. I think they are just slow. They have the units, just seem to take their time in shipping them out.

68 Convert: Go to http://www.imageshack.us and upload the pictures (they cant be over 1MB in size) and post the "Direct link to image" here. :)

Or sign up for a FREE account at http://www.photobucket.com

Well I located a taurus fan setup(ended up buying a brand new replacement one from Dorman products, I work at an auto parts store so I got a good deal) Am now trying to order dccontrols FK-35 fan control kit. Haven't had any luck trying to order off of the web site, when I click on the visa/mastercard icon next to the product listing, it just takes me to paypal login. I log in to paypal and nothing there except my usual account information, no reference to dccontrols at all. Am I missing something? How did you guys order your kits?

I ordered mine off the internet and went through paypal and had no problems. I suggest sending an email to Brian Baskin with dccontrol and see what he suggests. His email is b.baskin@worldnet.att.net

Good Luck!

Problem was on my end. My pop-up blocking software was keeping me from getting to paypal checkout. Lucky for me I noticed that my shopping cart had 7 controlers in it(must have tried to order 7 times lol). Now I guess I'll just have to wait for it to arrive. Did you get yours in the normal 2 week time frame?

Yep...Two weeks, maybe a couple days over, but seems to be worth the wait. Haven't installed mine yet...Still making some brackets for the fan motor mount out of aluminum.

Kevin

Kevin,
Let me know how you like the controller.
If you have any questions, let me know.
Good luck!!

John
Montana

KEVIN,

Did you get that DC Controller hooked up yet? If so, how is it working for you?

John
Montana

Hey John -

Yeah I finally got mine hooked up, but really have not got the car out to try it. I started the car and let it idle for a couple of minutes and it did not kick on the fan (must not have gotten hot enough), so I pulled out the heat gun and heated the sensor of the dc unit and it came on. So I am assuming it is working. I hopefully will get a chance this weekend to get the car out and give it a real test.

Kevin

Becarefull with DC controllers. Alot of them are NOT rated for the amps/watts of the motor continuously. I have to laugh at the pundits saying that relays are too hard or complicated to hook up when 95% of the OEMs use them for this very reason. RElays are a piece of cake quite frankly and if you use a 70amp automotive relay...the odds of failure are almost incalculable?

And, the relay is only about 10 times less likely to fail.....MTBF wise...and parts are easy to come by. What could you be thinking other than just wanting another cool widget? If that's the case...not a problem with me.

The mean time before failure is dependent on, among other things, the transistor die temperature, in fact it doubles for every 10 degrees Celsius drop in this temperature. Now, given that you don’t know the running temperature of the die in the transistor, what method or logic are you using in order to determine the mtbf of the controller in your comparison of life span between the relay and the controller?

With regard to the mtbf of the relay, the Taurus fan is a two speed fan and there’s a difference between running a fan single speed and dual speed (as with the OEM controllers), in that running the fan single speed produces a peak current of approximately 110 Amperes, while staging the fan over the two speeds does not. What further degrades the life span of a relay is the flyback voltage that’s produced when an electric motor is suddenly turned off. Doing this repeatedly from high speed will eventually degrade the contacts of the relay from high voltage arcing, and an added component, capable of withstanding the full current of the fan is needed in order to dampen this voltage, induced by the collapsing magnetic field of the motor armature, that can exceed 150V on the high Q circuit of the Taurus motor.

Now, given that, what is the mtbf of the fan, the relay, and combination thereof ? It would be helpful to show both your calculations for the solid state as well as the mechanical device for clarity with regard to your scientific conclusion. I look forward to your bestowing upon us what I’m confident is an impressive level of engineering prowess.

And with that first post...Welcome to Team Camaro! :waving:

Where can I get one of these controllers from , could you drop Me the Website address .
Mark .

http://www.dccontrol.com/index.htm

I just installed a DC Controller (the one from dccontrol.com) last weekend and I am very impressed with its operation. It keeps my temeratue right at 180. Before I installed the controller the temperature would cycle at between 175 and 195 when idling and it was very noticable when the fan came on and went off. I now have a hard time telling when the fan is on.

The overall variation with a relay based system is actually a lot higher than what’s read on the gauge, this is best shown by example.

Let’s say that you have a fan that will keep the engine at 180 degrees with the AC on in 118 degree weather. The radiator air inlet temperature from the heat of the AC condenser would be about 138 degrees. The temperature rise through the engine is 12 degrees, which is about the norm. So an air to coolant differential of [(180 + 168)/2 –138], or 36 degrees results in a 12 degree drop in coolant temperature through the radiator.

If the weather is cooler, say 66 degrees, and the AC is off, the differential is 108 degrees, three times what it was before, which will result in a corresponding 36 degree coolant temperature drop. So now the engine coolant inlet temperature is about 144 degrees. By time the outlet temp hits 175, it’s at 139 degrees. So, even though the outlet (gauge) temperature has only changed by 20 degrees, the inlet temperature has changed by 56 degrees, and over a very short period of time. The colder the ambient temperature, the higher the variation.

The problem, however, is not the absolute difference, but the rate of change and the total number of cycles. During normal driving, you’ll get the same variation going from idle to freeway speeds, but the engine is generating more heat during acceleration and the cycle period between freeway driving and idling is on average more than a few minutes, whereas the cycle time with a high powered fan is typically less than a minute.

The key components are the block, the head, its gasket, and the attaching bolts. Since most of the heat scavenging is byway of coolant flow and not conduction, these components lag one another in temperature variation. In other words, the block is cooled first before the head is cooled, the main path of heat conduction is from the head through the bolts and gasket to the block. Although the variation is small, the head gasket is compressed and relieved continuously byway of the resulting differences in thermal expansion.

Since a head gasket has very little resiliency, it will eventually work harden and then fail. Likewise, because coolant is non compressible, the pressure on the radiator will span the radiator cap limits over the same period, resulting in a change of about 17 psi per cycle. Since the materials used, 3000 series aluminum, copper, and tin-lead solder, are also prone to work hardening, the life of the radiator is also shortened.

Finally, when a motor is turning, it generates its own voltage, the current through the armature is then the input voltage minus the generating voltage of the fan motor (typically 50-75% of the input voltage) divided by the armature resistance, So applying a full 12V to a motor at a dead stop results in 2 to 4 times the running current and running torque of the motor. Given that the mtbf of the Taurus fan is approximately three to four thousand hours under normal operation, even if the proposed relay system were reliable, the life span of the fan would be the limiting factor with single speed operation.

Once all of the above theoretical failures are considered, along with the 20,000 hour mtbf of the controller, it can be seen that the simpler is better approach isn't a viable means of accurately predicting the reliability of the overall system.

It shows too units , I have the lincoln mark V111 fan . What one would I need for what it draws . And all those parts listed are they all needed or is there just a kit price you guys bought . How much is the setup .
Mark .

It shows too units , I have the lincoln mark V111 fan . What one would I need for what it draws . And all those parts listed are they all needed or is there just a kit price you guys bought . How much is the setup .
Mark .


I bought the FK-35 kit. I think the cost was about $120 with shipping. It included everything needed. I don't have the Mark VIII fan, but I have read that many people using the Mark VIII fan are also using the FK-35 kit.

Finally, when a motor is turning, it generates its own voltage, the current through the armature is then the input voltage minus the generating voltage of the fan motor (typically 50-75% of the input voltage) divided by the armature resistance, So applying a full 12V to a motor at a dead stop results in 2 to 4 times the running current and running torque of the motor.

I’ll attest to the fan generating juice. When I put an 85 TA electric fan setup in my 82 TA (CFI), everytime the fan came on, the idle got goofy. I had to install a diode inline to control it. I later found a TSB for a later model describing the exact same issue.

I also used a relay setup and a stock style (though lower temp) single lead fan switch to trigger the relay. I never had an issue for over 4 years. And parts were a local auto parts store away.

GM has typically run pretty good stock radiators, but with fairly low amperage fans, whereas Ford tends to run really marginal radiators wth much higher powered fans. Doubling the current also doubles the voltage drop through a relay, so the power dissipation will go up by a factor of four, but it's the peak current of the high efficiency motor that Ford uses that does most of the damage.

Mark; The fk35 has the current capability for the m8. The only other part you might need is the filter, 1.5ks (It's needed if the battery is relocated to the trunk)

The overall variation with a relay based system is actually a lot higher than what’s read on the gauge, this is best shown by example.

Let’s say that you have a fan that will keep the engine at 180 degrees with the AC on in 118 degree weather. The radiator air inlet temperature from the heat of the AC condenser would be about 138 degrees. The temperature rise through the engine is 12 degrees, which is about the norm. So an air to coolant differential of [(180 + 168)/2 –138], or 36 degrees results in a 12 degree drop in coolant temperature through the radiator.

If the weather is cooler, say 66 degrees, and the AC is off, the differential is 108 degrees, three times what it was before, which will result in a corresponding 36 degree coolant temperature drop. So now the engine coolant inlet temperature is about 144 degrees. By time the outlet temp hits 175, it’s at 139 degrees. So, even though the outlet (gauge) temperature has only changed by 20 degrees, the inlet temperature has changed by 56 degrees, and over a very short period of time. The colder the ambient temperature, the higher the variation.

The problem, however, is not the absolute difference, but the rate of change and the total number of cycles. During normal driving, you’ll get the same variation going from idle to freeway speeds, but the engine is generating more heat during acceleration and the cycle period between freeway driving and idling is on average more than a few minutes, whereas the cycle time with a high powered fan is typically less than a minute.

The key components are the block, the head, its gasket, and the attaching bolts. Since most of the heat scavenging is byway of coolant flow and not conduction, these components lag one another in temperature variation. In other words, the block is cooled first before the head is cooled, the main path of heat conduction is from the head through the bolts and gasket to the block. Although the variation is small, the head gasket is compressed and relieved continuously byway of the resulting differences in thermal expansion.

Since a head gasket has very little resiliency, it will eventually work harden and then fail. Likewise, because coolant is non compressible, the pressure on the radiator will span the radiator cap limits over the same period, resulting in a change of about 17 psi per cycle. Since the materials used, 3000 series aluminum, copper, and tin-lead solder, are also prone to work hardening, the life of the radiator is also shortened.

Finally, when a motor is turning, it generates its own voltage, the current through the armature is then the input voltage minus the generating voltage of the fan motor (typically 50-75% of the input voltage) divided by the armature resistance, So applying a full 12V to a motor at a dead stop results in 2 to 4 times the running current and running torque of the motor. Given that the mtbf of the Taurus fan is approximately three to four thousand hours under normal operation, even if the proposed relay system were reliable, the life span of the fan would be the limiting factor with single speed operation.

Once all of the above theoretical failures are considered, along with the 20,000 hour mtbf of the controller, it can be seen that the simpler is better approach isn't a viable means of accurately predicting the reliability of the overall system.

I was afraid to continue with this post. I flashed back to my school days and thought for sure there was going to be a test at the end. Please dont scare me like that again. Phil

Ok guys one more question , I have the lincoln mark eight fan , now it has three wires coming out of it , most likly one ground and two others are they high and low speed . then how do you hook this thing up to a FK-35 it shows one hot wire from it to the fan .
Mark .

The Lincoln fans that I've seen actually have ground, high, and high, there's no low speed input I use the two outside connectors and leave the middle one open.

Thanks for the help , all I have to do is order the controll . I Emailed them because I don't see a phone number for them .
Mark .

Have a question...
I plan on going with the Taurus fan and a dc controler.
How do you wire up the fan to the controller with the two wire set up for low and high speed? And ... what kind of alternator are you guys running? I'm looking at a 140 Amp one to replace my existing 52 amp.

What is the difference between the Taurus fan from a 3.8 and the fan from a 3.8 out of a Winstar, Lincoln Mark VIII, Thunderbird, or a Focus?

Think they are the same?