Ok as you all know i was scammed this week on a 67RS/SS350 4speed.I tried to resolve this problem(including listing his other camaro on this site for sale to help get my money back) with the guy I purchased it from and he will not answer the phone when I call"I had friends call and they would answer(caller Id).I tried!!So I'm tired of thinking about it and called the local state police and told them the story(vin tag doesnt match the hidden vin).He said that he doesnt see any "criminal act" involing this!!!Can you believe it!!So hes saying I can switch any vin tag that I wish without breaking a law!!Anyone know of someone I can call to resolve this matter?
NOTICE:1967 RS camaro vin124377n205200(please long this as a FAKE "2nd owner" camaro for sure! I spent a week figuring out this mess and mangage to stumble across the guy he bought the car from which he told me he bought the rearend,cluster with rpm gauge,shifter and consule out of the car I bought from the guy when the guy told me he never had those items for the car(why would you chopup a real RS/SS knowing it was worth alot more than your 67 RS anyway.thats alot of cash to through away for a poor man!He is the 5th and is advertizing it as he is the second owner.I had friends call to buy the car and somhow it not forsale was one responce another was its gone.
Anyone have any ideas on how to bust this ahole!!At this point i could care less about my 67RS/SS or the cash i paid for it.

Anyone want to call this guy about his restored RS its still in the paper?or just to help me get more info?his number is 231-529-1007.

you know I wonder in a situation like this ,,,,
you could check the hidden vin to see if it was reported stolen ? in other words the hidden vin will be 7NXXXXX something and all you have to do is ad the camaro id to it 124377NXXXXX and send it though the state police and see if it has ever been stolen ??? if it had it may have been so long till you could do something or it may not be in the computer's if it was stolen long ago ? if so you could go through one of those title companies and get a correct title to match the car then guess what (YOU OWN IT) even with the vin plate missing you would technically own the car because of the hidden vin's , all state police are aware that the hidden vins are there , and maube later you could find some trim tag company that would make a vin plate , but they will not do that if you don't have a title ,,, so here is what I would do



take the VIN get in touch with one of the title companies tell them you got the car junk and want to see if you can get a title , they will check to see if it is stolen or not , and you will either have a title or have a stolen car and then you could law the guy saying he sold you a stolen car ,, ?

Document the situation...get the previous owner you talked to give you a written statement if you can and if not at least write down what was discussed and date it..there has got to be a small claims court. In California for 30 bucks you can file a small claims action against someone and they have to appear before the court and you both get to plead your cas ein front of the judge. In California the max award is 5k .. so go for the full amount based on the fact that the car was misrepresented . I am not sur ebut I think it ws said to be a RS/SS and it is not? That would be my angle..of course you need him to admit it is not an RS/SS or you need the original advertisement...down side is that it comes out the car has been retagged and they impound right there, not sure about that but I guess it is possible...up side is that the guy does not want to go to court and he calls you to straighten it out for fear of the potential legal repercussions. When he gets the notice from the court believe me he will have some anxiety.

There are too many sellers out there doing this kind of crap.

I believe the car is truly an RS/SS correct? Think thats what was discussed earlier. For just a second, forget that at some point someone put a different vin plate on it. Is the car everything else you expected? If so, it may not be worth the hassle of trying to go to court and all that. It maybe less hassle and less $ just to get the paperwork figured out so its all legal. Are there places that make new vin plates? Could you have a new vin plate made to match the hidden vin (that would be right for the car), put it on the door frame and be done with it

I believe the car is truly an RS/SS correct? Think thats what was discussed earlier. For just a second, forget that at some point someone put a different vin plate on it. Is the car everything else you expected?Yes, a very solid "cheap" 67 RS/SS roller all original metal no rust.But the plan was to restore it. so i was going to put a 4speed 396 in it and sell for some profit.I restore cars and have had alot of training in this field so I do all the work myself and have the parts to complete this 67 so making a Big profit was a for sure thing with this one.But with a 123 vin,no way its going to happen from what I have read on this site.

I forgot about this and its funny..I spoke to 1 cop on the phone and told him"I think I'm in posession of stolen property" and he did nothing not even send out someone.Next day I walked into the State Police station and declared this same statement and walked back out the door :clonk: after the cop(same guy) said prove its hot or any criminal act was committed and get back with me. Thats what our taxes pay for!!! :thumbsup:

I forgot about this and its funny..I spoke to 1 cop on the phone and told him"I think I'm in posession of stolen property" and he did nothing not even send out someone.Next day I walked into the State Police station and declared this same statement and walked back out the door :clonk: after the cop(same guy) said prove its hot or any criminal act was committed and get back with me. Thats what our taxes pay for!!! :thumbsup:

Find the guy you bought the car from. With no witnesses around, break both his legs or have someone else do it. If the cops show up at your door. Tell them to prove it was you who did it!
This kind of stuff really gets me going. It is always the victum who gets it in the rear. :mad:

Look through your local laws and find the section on having VINs not attached to a vehicle. In Indiana, the law states "It is illegal (a felony)to have in your possession, remove, alter, or sell a VIN tag". Send a copy to the seller and tell him that you told the cops that he has the VIN tag from the car. Take a copy to the stupid cops and tell them that the seller removed the tag and has it. That ought to get something done.

Thanks Dave after spending alot of time looking on the Michigan web site I found the Laws!!750.415(2)--conceal/misrepresent identity with intent to mislead,4 year max.Which I believe is true do to the fact he had 2 67 camaros and one was restored and he decoded the cowl tag with his book right in front of me to insure it was a true rs/ss car,If he just restored one 67rs he can decode that car for numbers matching he knew about the vin tag changed on the car I bought.750.415(6) buy/recieve/optain a motor vehicle or part with intent to sell or dispose knowing the vin has been removed or altered,10 year max.I had no idea the vin tag was altered but this is what I'm tring to avoid!!!!And i think he needs the 10 becuase he knew the car was not right,he completly disassembled it and was making a full frame drag car out of it before he needed cash and sold the project to me.Why would you rip up a real 67 rs/ss350 4speed thats worth more than your 67 rs low powered 327 unless you knew the rs/ss was a mess??????????! I think a jury will see this clearly...whats your thoughts?
Needless to say I'm going to have to go back to the state post and hopfully get that same ROOKIE and hand him the Michigan law numbers and discription so he may learn more about his job.

VIN tampering is a federal offense.
JohnZ just posted that link recently....

There are too many sellers out there doing this kind of crap.
I was looking are a clapped out 1st gen yesterday at the englishtown swap meet. I mean there wasn't a usable part on the car. But it got sold. I forgot my camera, or I would have taken a pic. The cowl tag was not only scewed to the cowl, it was cut in half horizontally, just under the rivet holes.

But that wasn't the best part. I overheard the seller, a real south jersey piney type, explaining how he has titles, vins & cowls off a number of Camaros at home. He came off as rather proud of himself for 'saving' these things.

All these things I read here, and things I like I saw yesterday, just make me believe that no car is real unless proven otherwise. Sad.

I forgot about this and its funny..I spoke to 1 cop on the phone and told him"I think I'm in posession of stolen property" and he did nothing not even send out someone.Next day I walked into the State Police station and declared this same statement and walked back out the door :clonk: after the cop(same guy) said prove its hot or any criminal act was committed and get back with me. Thats what our taxes pay for!!! :thumbsup:

If you really plan to do something about this, get a lawyer. It is obvious that the cops either can't, or won't do anything about it. Trying to involve the cops in this situation is fruitless. About all they can do is investigate it and see where it goes (could take months). If you want something done, get someone on the case that has the resources and the skills to get the situation resolved...and pay them for it. If you have a good case, you will win, and recover your losses.

get someone on the case that has the resources and the skills to get the situation resolved...and pay them for it. If you have a good case, you will win, and recover your losses.

And most cases, a letter from the lawyer to the seller is all it will take to make things right. If you would have to file a lawsuit, the seller would likely have to pay for your lawyer fees, as well as mental anguish. Bu sure to summons the cops too, so they can LEARN something :)

Here is the message from JohnZ.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64065&page=3&pp=15&highlight=USC

And the link for 18 USC Section 511:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/...11----000-.html

Finny, send me a PM with the real VIN and I will check with a friend of mine who has access to the national database to see if it has been reported stolen.

Lynn

Call Bruno and Bubba! Take a sledge hammer and pay him a visit! :D . He will make it right?

I would like to thank all you guys that helped me with this problem(breaking legs is nice but would not of solved this problem).I got the local shierff to come out and look at it today and it took him 2 seconds to see the rivets werent on the vin tag were not right so he spent about an hour on the phone with some guy from the national data base system.Theres is more to it than I thought.I cant tell the details right now but tomarrow I may be able to make it public.I would of loved to be a bug on the wall when the cop went to his place today..with all the lies the guys has told me there no way he is not guilty.screw this guy I gave him the chance to give me back my cash or...and now he has to live with it and I feel great (I may even get some sleep tonight).
I will update this post tomarrow with all the info.
Once again I thank you all!,you guys are THE CAMARO GODS and saved my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're welcome, let us know what happens to the slimeball...

Congrats on your progress...the collective knowledge and depth of people on this website continue to amaze me.

How about this one,a guy from I beleive the state of RI bought a old 67 Camaro dragcar with a 6 cylinder vin,but when he checked the hidden vin number he was surprised and found it to be on the list of 67 Yenko 427 Camaros.Now what do you do? I know where theres 2 69 ZL1 Camaros,one that still retains the original hidden vin number on the top of the firewall and the other that has the cowel tag,vin number and title...So who owns the real ZL1 the guy with the original vin number or the guy with the title,cowel tag and original vin plate? Think about this if the guys that do this can they also restamp the hidden vin numbers,do you think anyones done this? I know why some of this stuff happened after talking to many oldtime dragracers....

I would like to thank all you guys that helped me with this problem(breaking legs is nice but would not of solved this problem).I got the local shierff to come out and look at it today and it took him 2 seconds to see the rivets werent on the vin tag were not right so he spent about an hour on the phone with some guy from the national data base system.Theres is more to it than I thought.I cant tell the details right now but tomarrow I may be able to make it public.I would of loved to be a bug on the wall when the cop went to his place today..with all the lies the guys has told me there no way he is not guilty.screw this guy I gave him the chance to give me back my cash or...and now he has to live with it and I feel great (I may even get some sleep tonight).
I will update this post tomarrow with all the info.
Once again I thank you all!,you guys are THE CAMARO GODS and saved my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

any hints?

this is a GOOD thread

How about this one,a guy from I beleive the state of RI bought a old 67 Camaro dragcar with a 6 cylinder vin,but when he checked the hidden vin number he was surprised and found it to be on the list of 67 Yenko 427 Camaros.Now what do you do? I know where theres 2 69 ZL1 Camaros,one that still retains the original hidden vin number on the top of the firewall and the other that has the cowel tag,vin number and title...So who owns the real ZL1 the guy with the original vin number or the guy with the title,cowel tag and original vin plate? Think about this if the guys that do this can they also restamp the hidden vin numbers,do you think anyones done this? I know why some of this stuff happened after talking to many oldtime dragracers....
I would say the guy with the body and the hidden vin owns the real thing. A vin tag is not a ZL-1! I would buy both of them. And take it to court! You prove your car is the real thing. How would someone else prove it? With a riveted vin tag? I don' think so. Stoked for the guy that found the 67 yenko. What a moron taking a vin off any of those cars. I assume the 67 was an accident? Is a rebodied ZL-1 any different than a clone?

dragsterman,What I found out from these oldtimers was the vin tag and cowel tag were taken off back in the early days because of a certain class they were racing and engine combo.I talked to a guy that was a original owner of a 68 Nova SS that was he dragraced and changed it into a 69.He actually removed the 1 year only 68 Dash where the key is located on the dash and changed it over to a 69 and up dash.I recently passed on a very solid 68 Nova SS 396 4spd dragcar because it had the vin number changed to a 1969.Title was 68 and still had the correct 68 cowel tag.This car was dragraced from day1,only had 2 miles on odometer!!! Was also a radio delete bench car.Car had 2 Cent Stamp painted on it and rubber from the slicks up the lower quarter panels.Really wanted the car,but there is a stigma on stuff like this,so I sadley passed on it! Maybe the fact that someone wanted to put the 67 Camaro found to be Yenko back on the street it was easier to locate a 6cylinder vin and title...

dragsterman,What I found out from these oldtimers was the vin tag and cowel tag were taken off back in the early days because of a certain class they were racing and engine combo.I talked to a guy that was a original owner of a 68 Nova SS that was he dragraced and changed it into a 69.He actually removed the 1 year only 68 Dash where the key is located on the dash and changed it over to a 69 and up dash.I recently passed on a very solid 68 Nova SS 396 4spd dragcar because it had the vin number changed to a 1969.Title was 69 and still had the correct 68 cowel tag.This car was dragraced from day1,only had 2 miles on odometer!!! Was also a radio delete bench car.Car had 2 Cent Stamp painted on it and rubber from the slicks up the lower quarter panels.Really wanted the car,but there is a stigma on stuff like this,so I sadley passed on it! Maybe the fact that someone wanted to put the 67 Camaro found to be Yenko back on the it was easier to locate a 6cylinder vin and title...

Yeah, I guess if they only knew. They never would have done things like that. I guess they would be cool for the right price. Good drag car anyhow.

updates??????????

here it is...the car was originaly stolen out of state in 1977.The vin tag was reported stolen on 3 diffrent cars throughout the years and across the country which where camaros and firebirds(black,blue,white) and ended up on this one to make it the 4th car it was installed on.The paper trail is long and its going to take the sheriff about a month to get to the bottom of it.The guy I got the car from was cleared and we spoke today and he is helping in anyway possible.Seems he also had problems after purchasing it,cracked block"396/375hp",the machine shop lost??? the square port heads, he paid 7000 for it and still owes the bank 3500.

So what's going to happen to the car itself? Do you get to keep it with a new state issued VIN (or the original) or do the police have it?

So what's going to happen to the car itself? Do you get to keep it with a new state issued VIN (or the original) or do the police have it?
I Believe the insurance company own's it if they had paid the claim, in this case may be 4 insurance companys...He may have to buy it from them..

I Believe the insurance company own's it if they had paid the claim, in this case may be 4 insurance companys
Thats correct and I think any previous non insurance company title holder would get the chance to buy it back if for the amount of the claim as long as they were cleared from having anything to do with the criminal act.or the car gets destroyed if a previous owner or insurance company chooses:angry: .And is mostlikly the case and sad.I have no idea what happens If no claims have been paid and the 4 previus owners and me are alive.?????Finders keepers loosers weepers :)there could be 2 claims and 3 none claim owners or ????? What a mess.
With alot of luck I may not loose the car..but I'm not counting on it.I still have the car right now and if i loose it I will charge someone a storage fee for the time i have it in my shop because if the sheriff took it i would have to pay a inpound fee if I ended up getting to keep it so he left it with me"hes a car guy".If for some reason I do get it the sheriff is going to give me the full report to show interested buyers I went through alot of BS to straighten the car out and its oK now.He will also help get the original vin number placed on a state issued sticker vin under there newly asigned number.