It is a 1994 Chevy Camaro with a 3.4 L. I had a new catalytic converter put on it because the people I was going to take it to told me to do that first. That was over $130.00 by itself. Then I took it to the people who I have always gone to, don't want to give names. Mileage at time of service with them the FIRST time was 135,069. The car was sputtering and acted like it didn't want to go, smoke coming out of the exhaust that was white and smelled like antifreeze. Engine light was coming on and off.

The service that they performed, after my fiancee stated it was probably a broken head gasket, was Diagnosis, Air Induction Cleaning, Fuel Injection Service, Throttle Plate Cleaning, Coils, and modjule. All this was right at $700.00! We didn't stay with the car so I don't know what they really did to it.

When we went to pick up my car I found out they had forgotten to do the oil change. I noticed it wasn't on the sheet so I asked. He had to ask the mechanic if he had done it and he hadn't! It was already closing time so they were in a big hurry. I found out that they had stripped my oil plug from the last oil change, 7/1/05, that they had done! The manager there wanted me to wait till my next visit to get the new oil plug. I told him no, don't you have one?! He looked and they did and he put it on too! I don't have the paperwork to prove that they did the oil change on 9/1/05 because they had forgotten to do it to begin with.

Well, he changed the oil and about a week later I noticed a big puddle of oil in my driveway. I called them and let them know I was bringing my car back in. I then found out that they had put my filter on WITHOUT lubricating it with oil!

Then exactly two weeks later, 9/15/05, it started doing the samething. It was putting out white smoke from exhaust that smelled like antifreeze, was sputtering, and then the temperature gage was going over what it normally does, but not in the red. I stopped immediately and turned the car off and called a tow truck. The people are refusing to fix what they should have the first time. What should I do???

I remember when I had the car towed to the place that the tow guy went in and asked the manager where to put the car. The Manager told him to just back it in a parking spot! Then the manager went outside and started to get into my car. When I noticed I went outside and asked him what he was doing and he said he wanted to see if it would start! I told him he didn't need to do that, but he did it anyway, AND then he drove it around the back of the building to look under the hood! My opinion, he cracked the house or whatever it is called. I know that I will probably need a WHOLE NEW engine!


9/22/05
I just talked to the president of the company and it is all the same with him too it seems. He is saying he will put two head gaskets on but it will cost me $700.00. Then he said he would waive the labor from 9/1/05, $325.00. He said to hold off and let him look up what all would need to be done to the car and if it is worth it. It ticks me off so bad cause I have been a loyal customer since 2002!

The president of the company called me back 4 hours later and said that he had two offers to give me. One: He will put on 2 head gaskets for $700.00 or Two: He will refund the labor of $325.00 from 9/1/05 and call it even. I told him I will have to discuss it with my fiancee before we can make a decision.

BEFORE he called me back with this offer I called LEGAL AID! I'm disabled and qualify for free help from a lawyer. I explained to the lady what the deal was and she was so ticked off. I think it made her so mad because I'm disabled and she knows I really need my car for my doctor's appointments. I had a bilateral kidney transplant almost 4 years ago and have to go to Duke a lot. I also have a lot of other doctor's as well. She told me to make sure I call them at 8am on Monday morning cause that is when they take cases, but not till 8:30am. She was basically telling me to make sure I get in there! She asked me if I had the paperwork with everything itemized and I told her Yes! I also told her I don't have the proof of the oil change because they had forgotten to do it, but I do have a witness, my fiancee. She said that was fine!

9/23/05
Yesterday when I talked to the president of the company he mentioned that my engine is LOCKED! It wasn't locked when I STOPPED, 9/15/05, it when I noticed the temperature gage was above normal, but not in the red. I was NEVER told that my engine was locked till just last night! Why is that?????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????


9/23/05
I called the president of the company to let him know I need more time to think over his options and that I want to explore other avenues. I asked him about the engine being locked and now the president is trying to say that it isn't an engine lock it is a liquid lock, mechanical term: hydrostatic lock. I think this is a bunch of crap. I'm still going to talk to legal aid on Monday morning and see what they can do for me. I would appreciate any advice you can give me!

Thanks!

My advise? The engine may have hydrostatically locked after sitting for a while.

Reason? Cooling system was pressurized when the engine was turned off, and coolant is getting into one of the cylinders causing the hydrostatic lock.

How is that possible? Cracked head, cracked block, bad head gasket, leaking intake gaskets allowing coolant into the combustion chamber.

What do I do now? Stop wasting your time with an attorney, and seriously consider working with the shop to get your problem fixed. The shops only fault in all of this is that they mis-diagnosed your problem previously. When they offered to refund your money from that previous service, they are clearing themselves of any responsibility for your problems.

Facts: Your car has a problem that was not caused by anything that they did so they are not responsible for eating the cost of repair. If they are willing to make you a good offer to fix the problems with the car, I would do it.

What else do you need? Work on a contingency plan. What if they pull the heads and the block or head(s) are cracked? What will happen then? Have other avenues lined up so that if the engine is disassembled, but can't be fixed, you are not left with a bill for labor on a car that can't be repaired, or is not worth repairing.

that's a hell of a first post..

My advise? The engine may have hydrostatically locked after sitting for a while.

Reason? Cooling system was pressurized when the engine was turned off, and coolant is getting into one of the cylinders causing the hydrostatic lock.

How is that possible? Cracked head, cracked block, bad head gasket, leaking intake gaskets allowing coolant into the combustion chamber.

What do I do now? Stop wasting your time with an attorney, and seriously consider working with the shop to get your problem fixed. The shops only fault in all of this is that they mis-diagnosed your problem previously. When they offered to refund your money from that previous service, they are clearing themselves of any responsibility for your problems.

Facts: Your car has a problem that was not caused by anything that they did so they are not responsible for eating the cost of repair. If they are willing to make you a good offer to fix the problems with the car, I would do it.

What else do you need? Work on a contingency plan. What if they pull the heads and the block or head(s) are cracked? What will happen then? Have other avenues lined up so that if the engine is disassembled, but can't be fixed, you are not left with a bill for labor on a car that can't be repaired, or is not worth repairing.

This is exactly what you said: "The shops only fault in all of this is that they mis-diagnosed your problem previously."

I can't afford a misdiagnosis or negligence. They should have fixed it to begin with.

This is exactly what you said: "The shops only fault in all of this is that they mis-diagnosed your problem previously."

I can't afford a misdiagnosis or negligence. They should have fixed it to begin with.

A you described it, sputtering and not wanting to go..the things they fixed were what are looked at first. And my understanding of the post is that the smoke stoped, atleast for the time being. And they are willing to refund labor.

They did nothing wrong legaly, and getting a grubby finger lawer involved will not help the situation.

Just my $.02 - You may have access to a lawyer and it might be cheap to do in Cali, but does it really warrant going to court? Just cause you can, doesn't mean you 'should'.
Now, if it were a doctor that misdiagnosed or was negligence, that would be a different issue. With an engine, there is some art and science to diagnosing it. I'd say you get more bees with honey. I'd talk to the shop again or go to a new one if you don't think they would work with you 'correctly' from now on.
Dont take this as me 'slamming' you, I know your upset about it, and rightfully so, I'd just take a second and rethink your reaction to the situation.

I appreciate you not "slamming" me. Thanks for the advice. I will take some more time to cool off and rethink the situation.

Seriously Tango, not that Im in a position to "slam" you, I just think you'll get better results if you go a different route. No offense meant. You might even try calling around to different shops - the shop your at might not be the best route to go as far as quality of the work or cost at this point, if they see you as a 'trouble maker', again, not saying you are, but who knows how the shop might react.

The President gave me two offers to choose from, One: That he would put on two head gaskets for $700.00 at another shop, or, Two: He would refund the labor from 9/1/05 of $325.00.

I'm disabled and don't have $700.00 to put two head gaskets on. My Father helped me out the first time and I still owe him. The $325.00 would go to him since it was his money that was lost in the car. I would also have no option but to give him the car as well since I owe him. That leaves me with nothing. I'm in a bad position and just don't know what to do.

Thanks for the advice.

Is there any chance of selling the car as is and making enough to pay back your father, maybe have enough to at least get you half way to buying a cheap(er), reliable used car? Maybe just an old honda or something, I dunno, just thinking. It might not be an easy sale due to the head gasket issue, but if the car is in decent shape.... if you owe your father $700, and the shop gives you $325, as long as you can sell the car for more than $375, anything left could go to a good used car. It might be time to cut your losses, insurance would be cheaper as well I'd assume, going from a Camaro to a honda, toyota etc.

I've been reading this post as it goes along and this is what I see,

The president has made an offer and presented to you. As Beers said, they did nothing wrong, they fixed what they found broke.

The president is being upfront and offering to fix the known problem for this price. Now, the ball is in your court. Offer to the man a payment plan if you can't make a cash payment, or go to the bank and get a personal/signature loan for more money than the repair in case of more damage found.

If the shop pulls off the heads and finds you need more repairs than diagnosed first, then you can get a loan for the payment and fix your car and get back onto the road.

No need in bringing in a lawyer, it just puts money into his pocket. The pres has stepped up to the plate and made an offer, now its your turn. Take responsibility, you'll be treated with respect in doing this. Trust me, we were young once, elders gave us a break.

I have no choice but to just sell the car as is and let it go. I can't make payments cause I'm on a fixed income which only pays for my bills. I will never have another sports car again. They are too expensive to keep up. Like you said, Everett, insurance will be cheaper anyway.

Thanks!

Tango - even if your '94 V6 camaro was running and in mint condition it's resale value is only $2000 - $3000 at best. Not running in mint condition you're only going to get $1000 - $1500 for it at best. You wouldn't have enough left after selling it and paying your dad off. I hope you don't have a car payment at this point, if you do you're upside down and would be left with debt after a sale. You won't have anyone knocking on your door to buy the car running or not and you may loose money making it run and then trying to sell it. If the engine was running when it hydro-locked you can count on broken internal parts and head gaskets won't fix that...

I would take the shops offer (just what kind of garage has a president anyway?) and take your car and the cash and not look back. I don't know how old you are or how much you have used dad's generosity in the past but if you need a car and are broke and in debt, dad is most likely your only option unless you have some credit already established. I would talk to dad and offer him the car as payoff for your debt. If he can make a couple dollars on a sale tell him it's interest and he deserves it. You may find offering to settle with him before resolving your transportation problem impresses him and in turn he may offer to resolve the rest of your problem completely. If he does, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Let dad do it his way, I say that because I have a teenage daughter and she's at that point where she's picky about things. We have talked about her getting my wifes car to use (2000 Impala) and she turns her nose up at it, she wants a mini pickup truck. I told her she's on her own for her first vehicle then and think she'll come around. I'm sure you get my point...

This would leave you out of debt with $325 in cash. That isn't enough for a decent car but you'll be a lot better off then owing dad and having a dead car. Where I live (San Jose) there is a transit system setup for the physically challanged. Obviously you've been getting around on your own and I'm sure you pride yourself and enjoy your independance. Personally I'd bite my pride and look into public transit for a while until you can save up enough for a decent car. If you qualify for a paratransit or outreach program you would get picked up at your door and at school or work every day. Any way there are options out there, lots of people get along fine without a car.

If you are set on keeping the Camaro I would check the salvage yards in your area for a used but running engine for your car. Then find someone willing to install it for you. Most salvage yards will back the used engines they sell and you will pick one up for about the same price as the head gasket replacement. The salvage yard may even be able to do the install...

Good luck and hang in there, this may feel like an overwhelming problem but you'll get through it one way or another and have many more and larger ones to face and over come in the future...

Tango - believe it or not I started typing before your reply, I have to stop from time to time for work issues so it took a while to finish my reply...

Another possibility is if you have a Technical School/College in your area that has a auto curriculum. You may be able to get them to provide free labor and all you would have to furnish is parts. The tech schools/college often have experienced mechanics in their class, trying to get certified. OF course, there will be no warranty... You will have to sign a waiver allowing the "student" to work on your car. Still, it may be an affordable option with the $325 or so you get back from your shop. I would think it is certainly worth looking into ... You never know when you might encounter a sympathetic instructor or department head ...

I have a question. When you originally took the car in did you tell them:

"The car was sputtering and acted like it didn't want to go, smoke coming out of the exhaust that was white and smelled like antifreeze. Engine light was coming on and off."

And if so were those notes on the repair sheet when you dropped it off?

Another possibility is if you have a Technical School/College in your area that has a auto curriculum. You may be able to get them to provide free labor and all you would have to furnish is parts. The tech schools/college often have experienced mechanics in their class, trying to get certified. OF course, there will be no warranty... You will have to sign a waiver allowing the "student" to work on your car. Still, it may be an affordable option with the $325 or so you get back from your shop. I would think it is certainly worth looking into ... You never know when you might encounter a sympathetic instructor or department head ...


good call, with the supervision of a competent instructor, head gaskets would be simple job. ...provided the school has the ability to check the head...

DjD,

Thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it. I have realized that the camaro just isn't worth all these problems. If it can get fixed fine, if not the oh well. I'm not going to be picky about it. I'm greatful for what I do have rather than what I don't have. I may be without my camaro but it is just a car.

I'm 36 and disabled. I had a bilateral kidney transplant almost 4 years ago. I have worked in the past but everytime I get a job I end up getting sick and out of work alot. Then I get fired. I receive disability due to my transplant and Lupus. It is an autoimmue disease that makes my immune system very weak and not able to fight well like others. It takes longer for me to get well.

We had the car towed back to my house the other day. We are going to try bars leak and see what that does. It is suppose to seal and cracks in the head. We will see. It won't hurt to try.

The President hasn't returned my calls since the car has been moved. I'm hoping he isn't backing out of his deal for the labor refund of $325.00. I'm going to call him again today. Everytime I call he isn't around and I never get a call back.

I went above the manager, district manager, vice president, and straight to the president of the company. I called the corporate office. I would rather not say who it is.

Thanks!

Tango - dont try to start the car if its been hydro locked, it either won't turn over at all, or you stand a chance of damaging something. Im glad you've been able to take a few steps backwards to look at the situation. I know lupus can make things very rough, I dated a girl for a while that suffered from lupus. Just hang in there, and keep focused on the goal, to have a job and have a way to get there. Sounds like you've allowed other options to come into play as to what that transportation might be, and thats a good first step IMHO.

You should check this out!!! Theses people are crooks!!!

http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=Precision+Tune+Auto+Care&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0

To me this is the problem with america right now everybody is looking for a reason to file a lawsuit. It sounds like there was a ligitimate problem and a ligimate attempt to fix it. And on top of all that the shop is even trying to help with the overall cost by offering to refund some money for past labor. It sounds like that the owner here is not very knowledgable of mechanical things and that only compounds the problem. The owner is in a financial crisis and needs a car that is broken and is frustraited that it is snowballing so what happens ? They balme the shop that is going out of their way to try to help them. Now I do not think that the owner here went into this looking to get money but now that they feel that the oppertunity is there they are trying to cash in. Lawsuits have there place in life but I definately do not think that this is the time nor the place.

Five complaints, in 2.5 years, amongst all locations nationwide.....I think that's pretty damn good.

Duke in Durham, NC?

If yes then I highly recommend EXCEL AUTO on Ramseur Street, Durham (Fayetteville Street exit off Durham freeway, first left over the tracks - its right there on the corner)

The owner can and will fix anything especially GM. He will do it for a very fair price and it will right the first time. The place is the most honest shop I have ever found, tell him Bill B. sent you and it would not hurt to ket him know you are on a fixed income. Good Luck with your car and health.