Having some differential noise in my 69 Camaro and thinking to replacing the ring and pinion, which is a 12 bolt 4.11 posi, with a 3.73 to get some better cruising rpm's. Talked to a supplier today that said Richmond gears are "noisey". I was thinking about using Richmond or Precision. Any thoughts or first-hand information on this?

While I have heard some "noisey" rear gear set-ups - I've never known of one brand or another to be "more noisey" when installed correctly and set-up right.
The best person to give you input on this would be BigGearHead :thumbsup:
But, He's off writing a book about his exploits with things near the back of a vehicle and doesn't check into the forums to often lately...

You may want to PM 'BigGearHead' (aka - Freddy B.) - http://www.camaros.net/forums/member.php?userid=1922
Or check his contact info at this 'buy-it-from-me-now' link - http://www.lubedealer.com/biggearhead/ :D

Hope this helps;
John

I have heard Richmond gears have a "whine" I don't know how true this is. As John suggested Freddie will be able to point you in the right direction.

As far as going from 4.11 to 3.73, I don't know if you will really gain much when it comes to highway cruising. Depending on how tall your rear tires are and your tranny (O.D. or not). If you have a 1:1 final drive ratio I would look into something in the 3.40-3.50 range, they are perfect street/strip gears. You really won't lose much if any (depending on your engine), if you have a 302, then I wouldn't suggest dropping that much gear. If you have a 350 or larger small block or a big block then the swap would be painless.

If you have factory installed 4.11 gears then you are going to be limited to 3.90 or 3.73 gears. The factory 4.11 was installed on a 4 series posi, which means that only thin 3.90 or 3.73 gears are going to work. There are no 3.55, 3.42 or other 3 series gears that will fit the 4 series. If you do not have factory installed 4.11 gears then you might have other options.

As for what brand is best, it seems like Motive Gear has been working best for me lately. US Gear is also good.

I just put a set of motive 3.73s in my 67 camaro, and they are silent. Motive makes a great product. :D I had a friend just install richmond 3.73s in his 02 SS and they are noisy as everything.

I agree with Andy. I got my set of Motive 3.73's from BHG and they are quite as can be.

My Richmonds make a little noise between 35 and 45. But since I set them up myself I can't be absolutely sure it wasn't my lack of experience. The '67 needs more gear so I'll give Motive a try soon.

Just my opinion, but I like to stick with the same brand when replacing gear sets. The pinion depth has been consistent for me with Richmond gear when swapping gear sets (I didn't have to play with pinion shims). My personal opinion is that when you change manufacturers the probability of having to fart around with pinion depth gets more likely.

I ran a couple different Richmond sets and they were all quiet. Currently running a Motive gear set and it is also quiet. I think setup is the single-most important thing to keep gears quiet.

Just opinion based on my personal (and somewhat limited) experience.

Ron,
I dont do rear ends every day, probably one or two a year at best but .... I purchased the T&D pinion depth tool as recommended by Richmond, and set up every gear set to the correct pinion depth and backlash. I have only used Richmond gears and have not had a single one make noise yet.

Thanks alot for all of the information on my ring and pinion job. Haven't opened it yet, but should get it started this week as soon as I can get it to my tech. FYI this is going in a '69 396 with a TH400. with ring gear # 2 GM 3862526 10-41-768. Thanks again...now I gotta decide!

My tech now has the cover off my '69 and the first thing he noticed was that the right thrust washer on the side was out of place to the rear and loose enough to push back with his finger. Left thrust is also easily moved. Whats up with that?? He's pulling axles today; what should he look for? Ring and pinion looks good with good wear pattern and reasonable backlash. We're thinking that by shimming the thrust washers will keep it in place. Not changing gears at this time.

I doubt that it will fix it, but it's worth a try. Those are not thrust washers, they are shims. They usually run from around .230 to.260 thick. If they are loose then that means that the bearings are probably worn.

Bgh---Why would there be a variation in thickness? Because of machine work I suppose, so factory assembly would adjust accordingly, right? Anyway, bearing wear would probably be a good assumption assuming nothing else is screwed up. Hope for the best. Thanks for the tip.

The backlash and bearing preload are adjusted with these shims.

I thought those adjustments were made with the pinion shims.. these are on the side bearings.

The backlash and bearing preload are adjusted with these shims.

I'll second that - if it will help... :D

John

The pinion depth is adjusted with the pinion shims. The pinion bearing preload is adjusted with the pinion nut. The backlash and differential bearing preload are adjusted with the side shims.

Ok, so if I understand that part, in order to maintain the previous wear pattern, the side shims should be equally divided on both sides in order to keep the carrier tight and centered. Or, if backlash needs to be corrected, shim more on one side or the other to move the ring gear into or away from the pinion. Geez, I think I'm begining to understand this. Anyway, found a slight problem with the left side bearing retainer in that the race spun slightly. Evidently the bolts came out with very little resistance.
Hope bearing retainer and proper torque will fix that. Thanks again.

:D (said with a slight british accent...) 'By-Gosh I think he's got it!' :thumbsup:

The shims are very seldom the same on each side. Most of the time it is biased to one side or the other. I would go for a backlash reading of .010 to .012 inch with the bearings tight. To set the bearing preload you want the shims to be tight enough that you can not pull the differential out by hand, but not so tight that you damage the housing or shims when you tap them into place. I recommend using new bearings because yours most likely have excess wear on them.

Yep, every bearing is going in new. Thanks for all the help!