I recently completed restoring a 1967 Camaro with a 350ci and Muncie M21 4 speed transmission. The professionally rebuit motor and supposively rebuilt transmission have less then 250 miles on them. Also, the flywheel, clutch, clutch fork, throwout bearing, and shifter are all new. The problem I have is that after driving the car and parking it I can not get it to go back into gear. For example, I drive the car for 10 to 15 miles and the transmission shifts fine. I park the car and put it in neutral. I then cannot shift it into any gear without first pushing the car forward a few inches. Once I push the car forward a few inches I can put it into gear and it shifts fine, with the exception of being a little hard going into reverse. I can then drive the car and it shifts fine, until I park it again. Any ideas? The one thing I did not replace while doing the restore was the pilot bushing (didn't know I needed to do this).

Spike,
It almost sounds like the clutch is adjusted wrong. How much free play do you have as you push the clutch in ? It should move about an inch before you feel the pressure increase when the arm hits the throwout bearing. The best way to feel this in my opinion is to push the clutch in with your hand. It is not uncommon for a new clutch to need adjusting after the first few drives.

The clutch is adjusted with 3/4" freeplay. My first thought was also the clutch, however I can start the car in gear without any problem. The clutch disengages/engages about 1" off of the floor.

The clutch is adjusted with 3/4" freeplay. My first thought was also the clutch, however I can start the car in gear without any problem. The clutch disengages/engages about 1" off of the floor.
My thought is the pressure plate has diapharm flexing too much upon disengagement. Or firewall is flexing too much if a stiff pressure plate is installed.

Too much pedal/linkage travel to have 1" POC above the floor. I would think, and faintly remember, there was/is about 2.5 to 3" of travel from the floor before POC, Point of Contact.

Advice on shifting into Reverse without grinding gears, -- disengage clutch, shift trans to 4th gear. This action stops the gears from rotating so engagement into Reverse gear, which is stopped already, easier.

I recently completed restoring a 1967 Camaro with a 350ci and Muncie M21 4 speed transmission. The professionally rebuit motor and supposively rebuilt transmission have less then 250 miles on them. Also, the flywheel, clutch, clutch fork, throwout bearing, and shifter are all new. The problem I have is that after driving the car and parking it I can not get it to go back into gear. For example, I drive the car for 10 to 15 miles and the transmission shifts fine. I park the car and put it in neutral. I then cannot shift it into any gear without first pushing the car forward a few inches. Once I push the car forward a few inches I can put it into gear and it shifts fine, with the exception of being a little hard going into reverse. I can then drive the car and it shifts fine, until I park it again. Any ideas? The one thing I did not replace while doing the restore was the pilot bushing (didn't know I needed to do this).

Odd problem. The clutch seems to be okay, you can up and down shift once you get past the part about moving it foward to shift at all.

One can only hope the rebuild was done right. I'll as the dumb question, have you checked the shifter adjustment? If the adjustment is a little off, the shifter arms may not be returning all the way to neutral and that can cause some problem.

That rolling it bothers me, never had one this weird.

Odd problem. That rolling it bothers me, never had one this weird.
I bet its to get all the gears rolling to allow the synchronizers to mesh with their mating gear.

Clutch isn't releasing enough, I bet.

The shifter adjustment seems to be fine. I've checked it a few times and each time the alignment holes all lined up perfectly.

What would cause to much flex in the diaphram of a new clutch? Is the only remedy to install a new clutch?

I really appreciate you guys helping me out on this.

That's strange, I seem to have the same problem in my '79. But, mine has always done it, I've replaced the clutch and it still does it. Only difference, is that mine doesn't do it all of the time. It also shifts fine for the most part while driving, but after park I have to fight with it.

I took the car out for a drive this afternoon and the problem is getting worse. I pulled into the garage and turned the car off. I rolled it forward a few inches and it went into gear. However, when I start the car in neutral and then try to shift into gear I cannot get it to go into any gear. There is no grinding sound when trying to shift into 1st thru 4th, it just won't go. It does grind when I try to shift into reverse.

Spike,
Based on your last post, it almost has to be the clutch not disengaging properly. Its not grinding in the forward gears because of the syncros. Try taking almost all of the free play out and see if it helps, that will at least tell you that you are looking in the right direction.

1" off the floor for clutch engagement is WAY too close. You should have 3-4" from the floor to where the you can hear/feel the engine taking the load. Ignore the freeplay, it's not important.

"Ignore the freeplay, it's not important" :eek:

"Ignore the freeplay, it's not important" :eek:

Well.... it's no where near as important as having the thing release all the way...

Could there be something wrong with the linkage? wrong bellcrank or fork, changing the leverage a bit?

Maybe he should check the freeplay with the return spring off, could be it's "lying to him"?

Just a thought, but could you have a wrong throughout bearing. I remember different lenghts produced. Also is it a Borg and Beck or diaphram style pressure plate? Maybe too high of pressure on the geomotry? Could the throughout bearing clip have come off the pivot arm. It does sound like a adjustment problem, but I am throwing some ideas in to ponder.

There is currently 3/4" free play, checked with the return spring off.

I will try taking almost all of the free play out and see if it helps as Billk suggested. If it does I guess I'll be replacing the clutch.

I checked the linkage and the geometery appears fine, bellcrank pointing slightly forward with the clutch fully depressed.

The clutch has a diaphram style pressure plate. I recently replaced the throwout bearing. It is the 2 1/4" one, not the long one.

Thanks again for the suggestions and ideas. I really do appreciate all of your help.

I adjusted the free play to about 3/8" and went for a drive. It looks like you guys are correct in suspecting the clutch. I pulled into the garage and kept the car running. I put it into neutral and then tried to put it into all forward gears and it did shift into 1st thru 4th. It still grinds some when trying to shift into reverse though.

The car actually shifts fine when it's cold, it's just when it's hot that I seem to have this problem.

Do you suggest adjusting the free play to 1/4" and continue driving the car and adjust free play as the clutch wears or would you suggesting biting the bullet and putting in a new clutch now?

The clutch has to release all the way. If it doesn't, it will cook your synchro's, even if it "feel" all right.

Having some "freeplay" at the top halps the throwout bearing live a long life, and ensures the clutch fully engages, but both of these are WAY cheaper to fix than a trans.

If the clutch is releasing fully, it will slip easily from 4th to reverse, car stopped, motor running. From any other gear, it's not unusual to have a lil "clash" going into reverse, which is not syncronized.

As I suggested before, you might try taking off the return spring and checking freeplay again. It's possible for the return spring to be sooo tight you don't "feel" the freeplay.

It could be the geometry of the clutch linkage or clutch fork is incorrect and not transferring enough movement when you depress the pedal.

You might have been sold the wrong clutch fork. A large Southern California vendor sold me a clutch fork (GM part #14066235) for my ’67 for $19.95 that was not the right part! I believe this fork is for cars form the 70’s and 80’s. I did not install this part. I purchased a replacement fork (CL-12) (http://www.rickscamaros.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/smpagegen.exe?U+scstore+scyy6370ff8d5f8d+-p+-c+scstore.cfg+CL-12) from Rick’s that is exactly the same as my original.

The clutch fork in the car is also the CL-12 part from Ricks. The clutch linkage geometery appears correct.

I just got that same car and the guy I bought it from says its the factory shifter,,,,assuming thats what you have,, it may be your problem too,,,, He actually would climb under the car and unjamb the rods.

Keep us posted because I will be there as soon as I get my momo back form the shop,,,and get a paint job and replace every bit of interior and,,,,,

but thats a different story.

Good luck

I'd remove & replace the pressure plate with a GM part, that is if you're running a stock clutch.. You said the geometry is correct, clutch fork is correct, t/out bearing is correct, there isn't much left.

You haven't mentioned whether the firewall flexes with the clutch pedal to the floor. Common problem, especially with heavy clutch plates, ie, 3200# or more. Firewall will "oilcan" every time clutch pedal is activated.

To assist in shifting into reverse from a stop, depress clutch, shift trans into 4th, then select reverse. This action stops the clustershaft from rotating and allows smoother engagement into reverse. Reverse in a non-synchro'd gear.

I agree with Muncie-Man,..I don't believe the shifter arms from the tranny are returning to neutral when engaging the other gate.

For instance,..after you go through the gears, 1-4th, then back to first, the 3-4 gear arm is not returning to neutral which will block engaging 1st or second.

Of course 'reverse' is the only unsynhed gear and shifting to reverse doesn't always happen on the first try. In fact the owner's manual for 69 Camaros suggests you shift to another forward gear then to reverse if it doesn't engage.

Put the car on jacks and have somebody go through the gears while you watch the shifter arms on the tranny. Notice the position of neutral on your 3-4th gear arm then see if doesn't return to this exact (neutral) position when shifting from 4th to first. If it's a little off, it will certainly block engaging any other gear ofther than 3rd or 4th.

If this is the case, obviously you need to adjust the shifter rods. Which is simple. Do you have the little plastic "L" shaped tool for lining everything up?

Let us know what transpires.

The shifter is adjusted correctly. I can shift into all gears and when shifting back to neutral all the shifter alignment holes line up correctly, using the white plastic 'L" shaped adjusment tool.

When the problem occurs after having driven the car, I've put the car in neutral and it wouldn't shift into any gear. I crawled up under the car and checked the shifter alignment and all alignment holes lined up perfectly, using the adjustment tool.


I checked the firewall and did not see any flexing.

Before you go buying a new clutch or clutch linkage, make sure that the pushrod is in the bottom hole in the clutch pedal. There are two holes that are about an inch apart. Installing the pushrod in the top hole gives the clutch just enough travel to almost work right. I found this out the hard way. The pushrod should be installed in the bottom hole. It will increase pedal effort, but the clutch will work correctly.

Hey guys, one other thing that might be a problem other than the outside possibilities, is that the syncros could be sticking on the gears just a little after the engine stops to cause this problem. some of the aftermarket syncro rings dont fit the gears as they should and sometimes need fitted so they dont stick and cause a similar problem. just another thought if the clutch turns out to not be the problem.

An inch to 1.5" down and it starts to dis-engage(Sp?), then down until she lets go and I shift!

I tried to reuse my ORIGINAL diaphram PP and it wouldn't work after being behind my 350, 409 "W" motor, junk301, 327 and finally my 406 SB AND to me, it looked fine!

Travis saw that it was ever so slightly heat warped at the fingers so I bought a Perfection/Zoom stock "new" set from Summit. GOOD VALUE TO ME!!

As for my Muncie shifter, I set it so that the "H" is slanted and leads the two to three shift by about a thread to two threads on the shifter links.

Like this " /-/ " if you get my drift??

It is a "feelie" thing and to me, my old Muncie shifters have aways worked great as long as I would crawl under her and lube her down every so often using an oil squirt can!! he, He!! I make a mess but whatever under there...

pdq67

PS., the ZOOM kit was only about $100 plus handling so to me is a bargain!

Just a thought on this. When I replaced the clutch disc on my 67, the throwout bearing supplied was the long style, not the GM style short one. Could it be that the modern replacement clutch disc requires the longer bearing to get the correct geometry? My dad, who built transmissions professionally for 42 years was suprised when the speed shop supplied the long style throwout, and questioned it at that time, when the counter guy explained that the long style throwout were used with replacement discs. You might want to look into this to be sure. Could be as simple as the wrong throwout bearing assembly for the modern clutch. One never knows....

Okay. I bought a new clutch and put it in last weekend. It has been raining every day since so I hadn't had a chance to drive the car and test it out until a few minutes ago. Boy, what a difference. Problems cured and it shifts better than ever. :)

Thanks again for ALL of your help. :beers: