Whats up guys & gals well Ive worked on alot of cars over my time & Ive done alot of boday work & paint but I have 2 questions please.So Im restoring my 67 camaro & Im doing a FULL resto I will replace EVERY NUT & BOLT IN THIS CAR & every nook & crany of paint .

1) so my question is IF I remove the clumped up Drip Check around the firewall do I need to replace that & if so do I have to clump it up like thay did , & do I just paint over it like the factory did??

2) Do you guys recomend any really good paint stripper to save me some time & DA pads ??

Thank you in advance Ive never removed drip check & I dont want any problems but I want a clean restoration .heres a before & after pictires!!

((BEFORE))pass side not done yet
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2062000-2062999/2062279_63_full.jpg
(Before)) pass side not done yet
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2062000-2062999/2062279_64_full.jpg
(AFTER)) Dr side taken out
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2062000-2062999/2062279_65_full.jpg
(after)) Dr side taken out
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2062000-2062999/2062279_65_full.jpg
(after)
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2062000-2062999/2062279_66_full.jpg

Somebody told me I can buy this drip check in a Caulk tube from my local auto paint store.

Thanks for the help guys tell me what to do here

JOSH

On my 74 Nova that I'm rebuilding I had the same clumped up sealers on it also. You have to remember the fit of the different stamped steel parts only fit so well and this is what they used to seal up the gaps. On my car I gave up wanting to restore it back the way it was originally which would mean glob the sealer back on again. To me it looks bad and I wanted mine to not have that look even though it would not be 100% factory original. These clumps in my opinion also make it harder to clean the area should it become dirty later on down the road.
What I'm doing on some spots that the metal is seperated from each other (not pulled up tight against each other) like on the one on your car on the top side of the cowl is taking and pinching it together to close the gap. The metal is fairly thin and easily bent with pliers. Once the gap in the metal was closed up I then took my mig welder and welded the edges shut. I then came back with my grinder and small angle sander and detailed the edge to where no seam sealers were needed.
In other spots where I couldn't use pliers to close the gaps I took a hammer and dolly and tapped the edges of the metal together to seal them up and then did the same thing with the welder as on other edges.
Some spots on my car needed more metal added to them and I would either weld in a small piece of steel or slowly build up the area with just weld that I could grind down and make it look nice to where it appears that the original stamped steel part fit better to start with.
On my 74 I also dug out the firewall seam to put in new sealer there but after removing the glopped on factory seam sealer I noticed at least three edges of steel from the different parts under the sealer and to make the seam nicer I carefully took my die grinder with a 3" or smaller wheel and trimmed down the excess steel to where it would be easier to cover and require less seam sealer.
The more I really look close at my car the more I see that the factory stamped steel parts just really didn't fit all that well to start with and all they did at the time was glop on a bunch of sealer. If you want to get rid of the sealers, or have less of it, it will require some metal work. Some parts will be easy to work on and just require a pinch with a pair of pliers while other spots will require adding and welding in more steel.
Even looking at my car I can see in some spots how hard the spot welder tongs had to pull two pieces of steel together to weld them together. They just weren't working with tight tolerance parts and fit and if you want it better you have to work on it and make it that way.
Jim

Here's where I would trim down the edges on the cowl sides and then weld them edges of the metal shut. I would then grind the welds down and shoot an epoxy primer over the area.
Hope you don't mind but I copied and made notes on your photo's.
Jim

http://image52.webshots.com/52/6/6/17/483760617PDpulB_ph.jpg

http://image56.webshots.com/56/5/99/85/483759985xVpOmc_ph.jpg

I have the same question as his #2. Any good suggestions?


2) Do you guys recomend any really good paint stripper to save me some time & DA pads ??


Thanks!
Winston_Rodney
So. Cal. Home Speed Shop

That's a very good question Josh.
I've been particularly interested in the 'glob' in the area of your second photo..... the open area on top of the cowl behind the tulip panel.

There are no gaps or anything there..... the factory poured on the goop heavy and built it up to block the area. I've stripped mine off as well and am wondering WHY it was there, and IF I should pile a mountain of goop there again. All I see it doing is keeping water from running down the sides of the door jams and causing moisture and dirt to build up. If I leave it open, water and crap can run down the sides and onto the ground.

I'm leaning towards leaving that big, ugly pile of poop off.

Josh, Jim made some very good points about what doing a full on restoration is all about, recreating some not-so-nice work! If you want it dead nuts on, you replace what was there with something that looks exactly the same, that IS restoring it back to original. But you better be ready to use enamel primers and lacquer paint and no body fillers or radial tires or modern battery. You better be ready to put some big runs in the door jambs and especially in the frame and undercar components, that is a must, big runs.

So, most "restorations" are not restorations at all, they are "rebuilding" of an old car to allow the "spirit" of the old car live on. Where you want to stop with it's accuracy is up to you. I personally have gotten a kick out of doing it EXACTLY as it was. I have recreated spot welds exactly as original, I have spent hours matching colors for mundane components so they look EXACTLY as original, I have purposely left flaws in sheet metal because that is EXACTLY as original. My brothers '48 Harley was a blast to do, we used about 50% NOS parts! Talking parts out of boxes that had not been touched by human hands in over 50 years! Pretty cool. However, he hot rodded the motor where no one would ever see so he could keep up with the modern bikes of his friends.

So, if you want to do it to have fun, just so you know it is as close as possible, replace the seam sealer the same. Honestly, no one will ever care if that seam sealer looks a little funky. 90% of it is not even seen unless you lay on the ground or go looking for it for the sole purpose of looking at seam sealer. I personally have never seen your average admirer do that.

On the other hand, the seam sealer is the FIRST place I look to see if a panel has been replaced. In checking out a used car for a friend, that is the FIRST place to look. Now, I am not talking a nice 68 Camaro, I am talking about a 2000 Pontiac or Toyota. The quarter seam sealers are the first place I look. The door skin sealer, the rocker sealer, the rear body panel sealer. These are all the first place I look to see if one of these very important, structural, welded on components have been replaced.

Duplicating factory seam sealer can be VERY difficult, VERY difficult. Early cars are hard enough, late model cars where it was done by a robot are even harder. Look at the seam in a bed of a late model Chevy pickup. The darn thing looks like a 3/8" "rope" is laying there. How in the heck to you replicate that?

I will seam seal panels just about every day. I look at the "good side" and then try as I can to duplicate it. Sometimes with brushes, sometimes with my finger, sometimes it is "masked off" for a perfect edge other times it is sloppy. Sometimes it is "dabbed" with a lacquer thinner soaked rag to give it a rough textured look. It is very hard, but should be done as close as can be, it is only fair to the customer.

With your restoration, how close you want to get it is up to you.

I think Jim is going WAY, WAY overboard by welding up the seams. The part isn't going to fall off, it only needs to be sealed.

If you scrape off all the sealer and then prime it nice, and then put a bead of sealer there and using a brush spread it out while applying a little pressure it will look pretty good and seal it.

If you mask off with tape a nice clean edge and spread the sealer out with a brush right up to the tape, then unmask it while still wet, that leaves a nice looking sealer. Applying a bead down in the corner between to panels and then pressing it down nice with your finger (in a tight latex glove) will leave a nice looking seam sealer job. Leave it "ball up" on the edge of the seam, don't try to smooth it out prefect.

These methods have the "look"of "factory" even if not the 1967 Chevy factory, but "factory" nonetheless.

DON'T EVEN THINK about using "Drip check" sealer (the 3M product with this name) This is old technology junk, you want modern (there I go, it isn't a "restoration" is it). 2k urethane or epoxy type sealers. Yes, the applicator is expensive, yes the sealer is expensive, but you are restoring a valuable car. Drip check sealer and it's ilk is cheap, junk. It takes forever to dry and probably never will if you apply it thick. The 2K like 3M "Automix" 08306 will cure thru in minutes.

You could use something like 3M "Ultrapro" Urethane sealer 8361 (gray) which is a moisture cured urethane 1k. It is a lot less money (as is the applicator) but will at least actually cure if applied thick. I use this often and it is a LOT easier to duplicate some factory seam sealers looks. It has a lot of body and you can make it look just like the stuff in your first photos.

The MOST important thing when applying seam sealer is to be sure it is actually sealing! Make sure it makes a good contact with all edges so it is forming a "cover" over both pieces of metal thus protecting the gap in the middle.

Brian

I don't like using paint stripper on seams of any kind. It can get down into them and be pretty hard to neutalize!

3m "Surface conditioning discs" like 07456 (there are a zillion numbers because of different grits and sizes 2",3",4") you use them on a little angle die grinder. Or the old "hamburger patty" "clean n strip" disc #07466 are MUCH better than sand paper.

By the way, I am not a saleman for the great evil empire of 3M. I just happen to have a catalog in front of me to give you the numbers.

There are other brands of these products (well actually I don't think anyone else makes the Clean n strip) that are cheaper and sometimes better. But if you go to a parts store you should be able to see what these look like so you know what to look for.

The "Surface conditioning discs" were originally sold to clean gaskets off engine components so they should be found at your typical parts store.

Brian

Ditto on the 3M ultrapro urethane seam sealer. It is tough when it dries. You cant pull it off if you tried unlike the 'old' seam sealer that is pretty much comparable to latex painters caulk. You need a special gun like this -







http://www.handsontools.com/image_manager/attributes/image/image_2/3853_5410_full.jpg
Last time i used it i didnt have the gun and i just cut a hole in the sausage tube that it comes in squirted it out and worked it with a brush. That was after i had my seams masked up. So once it was brushed out and i pulled the tape it was perfect. Its great for bridging large gaps.If you bridge a gap with something like 3m fast and firm or drip check (latex like seam sealer) you will find that after a few days it has shrunk down to about half of its previous size. It is weak to you could flick it off with a screwdriver if you wanted to. I would recommend you lay tape on both sides of the seam,run a bead down the seam.Wet your finger with laquer thinner and run it over the bead with a downward pushing motion. The thinner helps smooth the surface and keeps it from sticking to your finger. Let it sit a minute then pull your tape off. When you pull the tape you may have a sharp edge. Go back with an acid brush dipped in thinner and lightly run it over the edge to soften it. After prime and paint you will have a great looking seam.

So if you're not duplicating the factory glops, is there really any reason to pile it on behind that seam on top of the cowl?
You can see in his photo what I'm talking about as far as garbage collecting there.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/HwyStar/2062279_64_full.jpg

Wow guys thank you for the great messages very helpful , Im going tomorrow to pick up the caluk & gun.

As for going back to orgional no SIR Im going my way I want the custom HOT ROD look the Boyd Coditon (spelling ??) or FOOSE/overhauling look so thats what im doing, I know allot of you guys are for all orgional so is my Dad but im my own person & Im building the car I have dreamed aout since I was like 7 Ive always wanted a 1st gen stick with a big block & thats what im building ive included a pic of a 1/24 scale car I painted to match my car , only thing missing is the lime green flame pinstripe you can see more pics of my car at my website in my signature , thank you guys again for the help I really appreciate it.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2062000-2062999/2062279_34_full.jpg

Josh

Of course build it the way you want. Personally, that look is absolutly stunning! I love it!!!!

Then by all means, smooth out the seam sealer. I have to say, I "down played" the importance of the smoothing of the sealer. That is DETAIL my friend. And in building a car like that, DETAIL is what it is all about.

That goes for you to Jim, I may think that welding the panels is overkill, but if you smooth them all out, that is DETAIL. Rock on!

Brian