what do you have to change on a 69 camaro to make a a/c car to a non a/c car? i have removed the a/c box off the firewall and i have a non a/c box with a blower motor.what heater core do i use, is there any welding on the firewall,can i use the same heater box on the in side of the car that was on for the a/c, etc? thanks for any help!

First thing is you shouldn't have done it, you just hurt the value of your car, but that being said. Yes, theres welding, the A/C firewall hole is taller and narrower than the non A/C hole and the non A/C duct cover won't cover it. If you want it to look original, then there is nothing except the defroster duct from the A/C car that you can use when you convert to a non A/C heating system, everthing is different, including the kick panels on the floor. If originality is not an issue, get an American graffiti A/C delete box and install it in your engine compartment and leave everthing else alone. Do a search on american graffiti and A/C you should find half a dozen discussions on it.

reason for changing is the a/c boxes are always broke or busted and missing parts,i was going to go with the vintage air system it looks cleaner to me than the factory a/c system.
i did the factory thing/ matching numbers etc. already on a ss 396 car i had ( pain in the but),wanting to make a driver/ pro touring car to have some fun.
this car is missing a lot of parts.

Not sure who makes it but I have seen a box called "magic black box" or something like that. It was designed to cover the larger hole in the firewall where the a/c box use to be. Ck around and if I can remember where I saw it, I'll post a link for ya.

I would call vintage air, or whatever manufacturer you are going to use and see what they recommend. I think the only parts you need to keep are the air outlet vents themselves. The AC lines usually run through the hole where the blower motor was, so you could even smooth the firewall, if you wanted.

Here is what I found....

AC-95 67-69 AC Evaporator Box Eliminator
For factory AC equiped cars. This "Magic Box" eliminates the AC firewall portion of the factory air unit, offering a very clean look under the hood while sealing the firewall and allowing a completely functional heater system. The existing stock AC underdash heater box, heater core, defroster and control are retained and fully functional for heating and defrost. OE quality die molded fiberglass with pre-finished heavy black gel coat . More

Our Price:
$ 179.95


www.rickscamaros.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/catalog_heat.htm?L+scstore+wdnj8085ff3e373e+113108 3723

I am doing the same thing. I bought a A/C delete from American Grafitti worked out pretty good. I am going to use a Vintage Air type product myself.

If your taking the Pro-touring look I would smooth the firewall. If you want a/c again get a Vintage air Gen II Compact a/c box that will go under the dash. If you dont want a/c they also have a heat only box.

This is Evan with American Graffiti Performance Cars and Parts, we are the only manufacture of the AC Delete covers or "The Magic Box" they are $129.95 + $17.95 S/H and are available for first and second gen Camaros. For more information please visit our web site at www.americangraffiti.biz or call us directly at 1800-300-1494.

I just finished installing the American Graffiti Evaporator Box Eliminator on my 68 standard with a/c. Most engine side a/c parts were gone, some underdash ducting gone also. Let's just say this project is easier said than done. Here are some lessons learned from removing the old components and installing the eliminator. Feel free to email with other questions:
1. American Graffiti price - $129, Rick's price - $179 (found out the hard way). The guys at AG were nice, helped out with some questions, buy it directly from them.
2. Fender liner must come out to get to blower motor area - done by loosening most right front fender bolts and removing all bottom bolts (valence, behind wheels bottom, rocker panel). Bumper must be loosened on right side. Fender extention must come off. Hood can stay on. Header panel can remain tight. Takes at least two Saturdays, 4 hands and two twelve packs.
3. Fender liner comes out through the wheel well - wheel off with car front end up
4. Eliminator Box not drilled for mounting bolt holes, indentions in fiberglass are not quite in exact location, will require trial and error fitting.
5. Your vent/heater distribution box will have to come off the interior if you want to change out the heater core (recommended). That's another story, but there's a lot of opportunities to break the core pipes during the fender liner in and out processes (found that out the hard way also).
6. Function afterward - fully functional fan-heat-defroster requires all original electrical on both sides of fire wall except temp switch (engine side). Half of my original evap box was gone, including the relay and resistor, bought those from Ricks (GM parts).
7. May want to replace the old blower motor/fan while you're at it (I personally don't want to ever see that blower motor again).
Hope that helps anyone considering this task.

Glad it worked for you. I am doing it now and agree with you about the intricacy of this job. I am done except for electrical issues, but I think they must have been there prior to the surgery.

If you are going to install a vintage air system, buying an American Graffiti cover, will be a waste of money. The blower motor hole is just blocked off, and they have their own cover (that the A/C lines come out of). Yes, you can use the non-sure fit kit and bring the a/c lines out of the blower motor hole. Either way you won't use the American Graffiti cover.

There is 1 or 2 threads re covers in the last couple months.
I took a non a/c cover, split widened and exrended the cover, re welded up, grind off and finish, paint.
I have a stock looking cover.
The resister coil mounted thru the top, and contunued the loom for the fan wires across the top to the fan.
Dont need the heater vac shut off valve, as the A/C door controls effectively shut off the hot air and supply fresh cooler air when needed.

I did split the case unit in 2 parts, up near the fender, just in case I ever need to remove or get inside the in the future.

Driver8,
Good luck with the rest of it. For the engine side electrical, the a/c harness that comes through the fire wall up and to the right of the cover includes a resister plug, a relay plug, a temp switch plug, a compressor plug, the two wires for the blower motor, and a ground which goes to the horn/battery ground at the left front on the radiator brace. I installed a new resistor and new relay and mounted them. The relay is enclosed and can be mounted to the firewall near the eliminator. I made a small plastic box for the resistor (which comes with no case), and mounted that to the fender liner out of the way. After connecting the blower motor, that leaves the temp switch two-way plug and the compressor two-way plug open. I rigged a 2 inch wire with a male connector on each end for each of those plugs so that the circuit was continuous. From what I could tell, the temp switch would open (disconnect) when below freezing (which won't happen here) and the compressor current just returns to the ground going to the battery/horn ground. I completed the ground with an in-line fuse and standard wire.
When I turned on the ignition accessory switch and tried the fan, it actually worked (and I nearly fainted). So, at this point, the fan works as it should (the resister causes the different fan speeds). I've still got to replace some under-dash ducting and figure out is the vacuum system, which is currently open with some tubing missing. Not sure how vital that is, but I guess it will allow outside vs. inside air circulation by the actuator in the right side kick panel.
Good luck with yours.

68cam350, I am printing your wiring hints as we speak. I am pretty sure you are right about the vacuum lines and do not think they will be as important as before. Maybe Mark C. can shed more light for you there. I am one step further in that I found a broken wire from the fuse to the switch. I now have power to my switch and also will be replacing the switch, plug ends, and relay. I am re-using my resistor. Do you know why the resistor needs to be covered? and could I mount it in the magic box itself? Hopefully I will have good news to report soon. If you have any other helpful info it would be appeciated. Thanks. Ed Hall Fallston, MD

Use a Classic auto air AC system.
Remake the firewall block off plate that is supplied with the kit.
make a steel or aluminum one, paint it or chrome it.
Add billet fittings or whatever level of sophistication you desire.

Driver8, My plans for mounting the homemade plastic resistor box on the fender liner fell apart and I had to mount it next to the relay (just above the a/c harness outlet and under the wire gutter on the firewall) since the the original resistor wires and plug would not reach the fender liner.
I like your idea of putting it into the eliminator box. I'm not much of an electrician, but according to the wiring diagram, it looks like the fan switch changes which resistor coil (or neither) the current goes through on the way to the blower motor (for the low and medium settings?). The current passing through either of the coils on the way to the motor would be have to be reduced and lost as heat (like a toaster), so my guess is that the coils may heat up when in use at those fan settings, but how much? Now I'm having second thoughts and wondering if my plastic box can take the heat. The evap box was gone when I got mine, but the diagram (Camaro Assembly Manual, UPC 60, E1) looks like it did mount on the outside of the original evap box with the coils inserted through a hole to the inside. If so, your idea of cutting an opening into the eliminator box to put the coils inside would be analagous to the original set up, and be a safer place for them to dissipate heat-good idea. Would want to make sure it doesn't touch or ground itself on the firewall or anything else inside. But the thought of cutting a hole in that $180 thing after all of that work is kind of scary (another twelve pack may be in order). I'd be interested to know what you decide to so. Perhaps someone else knows more on these matters.
Another thought I had was that instead of creating the short male-male wires to plug into the compressor and temp switch plugs, you could simply cut the plug off and join the wires. But I like the idea of keeping the oringal plugs in case I or someone else wishes to restore the a/c in the future. Good luck. Curt/Sacramento

Sorry,

You have to put the resistor on the duct so the coils are inside the duct. If they don't have air flowing over them all the time the coils (the resistors) will heat up quickly and melt.

Im going down to the workshop in a few hrs...will grab a couple pics of what I have setup...
In '83 I cut the A/c case thru, just out side the fender , then folded a new box, bolted and joined to the remaining fan case. Looked a bit out of place thu
Since then replaced all that, I cut a std heater box, reshaped to fit the bigger a/c heater hole in the f/wall

68cam350,
Last night I completed my a/c swap. Mark is right about the heat of the coils. While testing my new relay....man did they get hot, lucky I didn't burn it up. I have my original a/c box so I measured the hole. A 2 1/8" holesaw bit for door knobs worked perfectly. I am making a 3/4" adapter/spacer so the fingers don't ground out on the firewall. You need to be careful where you drill this hole so you don't interfere with the flapper door inside the duct. I am working all night tonight but tomorrow I will measure mine and give you the dimensions of where to drill. If I get my wife's help maybe I can attatch a picture for you. By the way it works like a champ, and I need to thank you and Mark Canning for the help. If you have other questions maybe I can help now that it's done. p.s. I made the spacer from a scrap of trex decking.

Hey Curt,
I can't send the pictures through this site (we don't have a URL to link to), but if you want to see them, you can email me at pobcfde24@comcast.net. However, here are the measurements of where I drilled the hole: 2" from the top of the box and 5.5" from the engine side of the box. Reminder that the hole size is 2 1/8". Hope this helps. Ed.

Couple pics of a std heater box , cut resized to fit a/c firewall hole, and location on resistor mount, wiring loom.
Std heater box
http://www.kakariki.net/camaro/stdheatercover.jpg
Heater box lengthened, and widened, cut and welded.
http://www.kakariki.net/camaro/FanCover.jpg
http://www.kakariki.net/camaro/heater.jpg

Ed, Your idea of placing the resister in the eliminator box may be the best solution. My home-made plastic box for mounting the resistor to the firewall is already warping from the heat of the coil resistors. If your idea of cutting a hole in the eliminator box and mounting it in there works out, please let me know. Curt, Sacramento.

I have the American Graffiti fitted to my car (work in progress ) . Does onyone know where the fan resistor & relay mount.pics would help.
Thanks

Lazyone, Driver8 and I both recently did the a/c delete using the American Gaffitti eliminator. I mounted my relay on the firewall just under the wire gutter and above the right upper corner of the eliminator. I just drilled holes in the firewall for the 2 sheet metal screws necessary to mount it (with fingers crossed that I wouldn't hit something important behind the firewall). Per the advice in a couple of the replies above, the resistor coils get pretty hot and it appears that a good place to mount it is right into the eliminator by cutting an appropriately shaped hole in the eliminator cover. There, it is safe, out of view, and the coils are cooled by airflow when in use. I found that the length of the stock a/c harness wires for both the relay and resistor won't let you mount either very far from where the harness comes out of the firewall, unless you modify them. Maybe Ed (Driver8) can post his pictures of the hole he made in his eliminator to accommodate the resistor.

The trick I saw for not removing the fender liner was just to cut out a 10x13 inch hole in it, then weld some tabs on the peice you cut out and use sheetmetal screws to resecure it. Spray with some undercoating and it's almost invisible; at least that's what I heard. It sounds like a good idea.