I just can't help but notice that the muscle car days are back. I mean just think of all the new cars that are out: 350 hp GTO, 400 hp entry level C6 Corvette, the new 2005 mustangs, the future big block hemis, the 500 hp SRT-10, and the Cadillac CTS-V. And to top it all of is the 2002 600 hp ZL1 camaro :eek: . And almost all of these are small blocks that get decent gas mileage. What do you guys think, are the good ol' days back?

PS: Here is a 2002 ZL1 on ebay ZL1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2486371224&category=6161&sspagename=WDVW). CRAZY!

Well, lots of high powered, nice cars coming out... but when I think of muscle cars (granted I'm only 23... so bear with me. graemlins/clonk.gif ) I think of being able to buy a fairly inexpensive car that has a big engine in it... For me, that would be like a $20k V8 car... some of the ones you listed are double that price.

Also, I like the fact that back then you could order the options you wanted... not just select one of two or maybe three option packages.

I think the same way John does about it. Granted, a 'musclecar' in 1970 cost $3500 and THAT was a lot of money back then, but a modern 'musclecar' that's $38,000 just doesn't do it for me.
"Musclecar" cars\trucks that cost that much now will never see my driveway until they're old and beat and I can buy one for $3000. Almost anyone could buy muscle back in the heyday.... not true anymore.

But I agree with you also HuggerZ.... it DOES seem that way, doesn't it? smile.gif Maybe my son WILL have something cool to drive and work on when he's old enough to drive. graemlins/hurray.gif

I can see your point! The only difference IS the price. I think there's just waaaaay too much crap to buy these days. I mean, back then, we didn't have cd's and walkmans and digital cable and cell phones and dvd players. and the list is almost endless. I think back in the 60's people struggled a little as they do now, but everyone seemed to understand each other and everyone could get a similar "middle class American made car"...45k for a "middle class" car seems like alot for what you get! Anyway, the cars coming out now are a little more sporty lookin and have more hp for sure. Can't wait to see the first spy shots of the reformatted Camaro coming out in a few years graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Dano

I agree the hardware is in place. There are some distinct differences though and price is one of them, but not the biggest in my book. You can not personalize the car to reflect your tastes as you could back in the 60's. Today you have to order options in groups and most cars are forced into certain groups. I looked at the new GTO for kicks and everyone on the lot was just like the one before it. The ONLY difference between these 10 or so cars besides exterior body color was auto or manual trans. GM will not let you order the car the way you'd like it to make it a little different from everyone else. My friend drove one and was disappointed inthe performance. Said it doesn't run as well as his 1LE. I didn't go along, so I can't comment, but it seems that an all aluminum 50 in that size body (small) should run pretty well.

The last thing is the styling. I think GM's current direction is why so many people are looking at other makes, including most of the GM employees I know. I seriously doubt that 30 years from now many of these makes of cars, and I'm including all the big three manufacturers not just GM, will be sought out and increaing in value the way the muslce cars of the 60s are today. The only examples that come to mind that may not fall into this catagory are the Corvette and the 05 Mustang. I personally don't like the Corvette either, but I think most people do and it will continue to hold it's own.

They've got the hardware, but the package is lacking to make it a desirable car in the future IMO.

They are making some impressive performance cars today. But to me, "Muscle Car" means something different. Even if we lump together the "Pony Cars" with them we still find distinctions between then and now. In addition to speed we had loads of choices to make a statement.

Flashback to 1969...

About a dozen different engines to choose from.

18 different exterior colors

15 different interior choices

A raft of available options ranging from stuff you wanted to stuff nobody wanted. :D

These kind of choices will never be available ever again. The whole concept of "Muscle Car" is quite different from what they sell today in my opinion. The cars they sell today will not likely be all that valuable 20 years from now. They made way too many and they are all "red with a gray interior".

Are we goning to be sitting around talking about that old "Eddie Bauer" Ford SUV they used to own? "Boy I wish I never traded that thing in on that Escalade back in 2003"... ;) Oh Well!

-Mark.

Originally posted by stingr69:
They made way too many
1969 camaro production: 243,000
2002 camaro production: 41,000

But I agree with you that the option list on the newer cars is not as impressive as the older ones. However I do believe that these newer cars will be just as valuable as the older muscle cars.

Sam

[ 08-09-2004, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: 69huggerZ ]

old "real" muscle cars are becoming alot more popular not too.

Can anyone say "Hemi" ;) Mopar seems to have the right Idea, what do you think of it's new lineup? I like the looks of the new 300, Has anyone driven one yet? They sure seem popular. Looks like some of that Mercedes engineering is bleeding through. Tne new magumn wagon looks good too...for a wagon...Zuma smile.gif

Ok Guys....the good old days are here, but for some of us, they never left our hearts. Once a muscle head, always a muscle head. I went from draggin' in the 70's, to motorcycles, to snowmobiles, to boats, now back to muscle. The spark plug never left me. It was always near in some form. Now we have a better choice of cars, better technology, better quality, economy, etc. I do not think we have as many entry level muscle cars as we saw in the 60's-70's however. Indeed there are choices, but not nearly as many. GTO's at $30, Vettes at $45, Mustangs pushing $30. This makes it tough for a kid to get started. My son (16 yrs) is way into cars but he has a Turbo DSM. He is learning about mechanics, racing, resto, rodding, and enjoys car shows of all types, with an appreciation for old muscle blended with new technology. My next youngest at 13 yrs is not far behind him. Their interest in the new stuff helps keep me out of the "caveman" syndrome. Regardless of what we drive, we need to continue to grow interest in this sport/hobby/obsession, or we will have our cruise nights to ourselves at the retirement homes. Our passion needs to be affordable, or it cannot be liberally passed on. Many need to enjoy. Get your kids hooked on it! It's cheaper than the alternative!!

Well, the old muscle cars would do something the new ones don't: scare you!I've driven/ridden in both, but there's something lacking: crude, brute, force! The new cars are arguably better in that they get better mileage, are less polluting, quieter, more reliable, but that's not what we're here for, is it! There's nothing to quite compare to getting into a "race" hemi Belvedere, or a '68 Barracuda, or a 396 or 454 SS Chevelle, with their cam rockin' the car, rev it up, your ears are burnin', dump the clutch, and get the fright of your life as it tries to go every way but straight! It was brutal, man! I don't care if the new cars can do a flat 10 second quarter mile from the factory, when they are smooth and quiet, it's just not the same.(imo)Also, the old muscle cars could be worked on by YOU, not some college graduated auto tech with $60K worth of diagnostic equipment! And you could buy one cheap, build it the way you wanted it, rebuild it, and so on, and not worry about emmissions, chip failure, etc! My first muscle car was a 1965 Plymouth Formula S Barracuda. I bought it for $100, m=no engine, and the 4-speed tranny laying in the back seat! The body/paint, interior were in excellent condition. I built a 273 super commando engine, went to the junkyard, found a bellhousing/clutch assembly off a '65 Dodge Dart, spent the summer earning money/being taught how to "mechanic" down at our local Chrysler/Plymouth dealership (my older cousin was the shop manager). I then drove/raced this car for many years, further modifying (I now view it as destroying!!!) this car. I went the cubic inch route slowly as I got the money, putting a 318, 340, 360 383, and finaly 440. What did it take to change these engines? Roll it in the shop on friday after work, unbolt the tranny, headers, wiring, radiator, etc., yank it, fab new motor mounts if needed, then install the new, larger engine that I had spent the earlier part of the year building. Roll it out Sunday evening for the test drive, and on to work Monday am. I don't think any "backyard" mechanic could do this nowadays with the "new" musclecars. Just too technical and specialized by the factory for what they put in them. Again all this is just my personal experience and opinions, but I've lived through those days, and done it! The new kids are going to miss out on that "something" that's really hard to explain. Oh well, maybe the "old timers" that hot rodded the early flat heads felt the same way about me! haha