I just got a new car in at my work, Its a 69 Z11 BB 4 speed pace car replica...Unfortuntely I don't have any documentation..Supposedly this is a 1 owner car, with 50,xxx miles...They(supposed original owners) told my boss the POP and dealer paperwork "burned up in housefire" :rolleyes:

Its has a 4 speed M22 Trans,(according to the casting #)The partial Vin Stamped on it matches...

I can't find a partial vin stamped up by the pass side cyl head pad, all that is up there is "T0326 B"...This is an 03E car, so I guess that is close..Im not sure what is up with the suffix code though...There also appears to be nothing down by the oil filter pad either..

It has had a repaint it looks like, to a newer BC/CC and some restoration work has been done...The undercarrige is chasis/semi-gloss all over and shows pretty well.....The spiral shocks are gone, and replaced with parts store specials, and the leaf springs are also semi-gloss black as well...It has a 12 bolt rear(although I haven't checked any #'s on it yet)..

4 Tag pics below..

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6572/mvc006f0qn.jpg

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7104/mvc007f0br.jpg

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1807/mvc017f5bz.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4167/mvc018f6cr.jpg



.

The Tag is good and the Z11 designates a Pace Car...check the engine code..V0326 B ...V is for Flint, Michigan engine plant, 03= March, 26= 26th day ..so that all looks like it matches..but the only engine code I could find that was for a BB with a B in it was a 396 with a powerglide....there should be two letters after the V0326?? .
I do have an 03E car and my chassis number is very close to yours.
I am sure some of the Pace Car guys will fill you in and give you more help.
Welcome to the board/forum. You have come to the right place for information and help.

Here are a bunch of Top and bottom engine pics...Anyone know why there is no partial vin?

Top pad:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4866/mvc001f6yq.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5283/mvc002f0lz.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1253/mvc003f8wq.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/990/mvc005f3hr.jpg

Bottom By oil filter...Can't find any vin, doesn't look like there would be anything here, so I stopped sanding..Is it under all the paint? looks too "rough" to find anything under there..

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2994/mvc006f2rp.jpg

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8295/mvc007f2pn.jpg

Misc casting marks...Do these help anything?

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/43/mvc008f8bv.jpg

LH manifold...Smogger type with plugs in A.I.R. holes since smog pump is MIA..

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/325/mvc009f7ye.jpg

Looks like an M22, which was only available with an L78..The engine that's in the car doesn't appear to be an L78, the intake is painted chevy orange, it has a quadrajet carb, and looks like it has a return fuel line, although it is not "hooked up" due to the installation of a fuel pump without a return line port..

Trans pics: The partial vin matches? If this is authentic, then the car would have to be an L78?

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4724/mvc010f9ur.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2879/mvc011f8bn.jpg

More Misc pics...As you can see its gonna need quite a bit of detail before it goes out into the limelight again...The valve covers look original, but have some pitting, deep scratches from sandpaper/roughsteel wool and still have the faded "towanda" decals...The car does not have power steering..

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/6070/mvc001f1cl.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/4500/mvc002f9jr.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/3679/mvc003f8oo.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/6817/mvc004f3xm.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/4422/mvc005f4fn.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/9963/mvc009f9vn.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/4586/mvc011f4zv.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/441/mvc012f9zh.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/6492/mvc013f5qa.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/219/mvc014f5dk.jpg

but the only engine code I could find that was for a BB with a B in it was a 396 with a powerglide....there should be two letters after the V0326??

I only see a "B" for the engine suffix, which is the first time i have seen this in checking 50+ camaros....I know its normally 2 letters...I thought "VXXXX" was for small blocks? "JB" is correct for an L35/3 or 4 speecar..Maybe the J is stamped lightly and no longer visible?


Welcome to the board/forum. You have come to the right place for information and help.

Thanks..This forum is great! I normally just use the search feature and find all the info I need! I work for a muscle car retailer and detail/lightly restore/decode 20-30 67-69's camaro's a year...

Sorry I can't comment on the car, but off topic I wanna know what kind of camera you used. Some of those engine shots have amazingly clear detail and are very crisp.

The trans picture looks like P9C22A to me which would be an M20. Return fuel line under the car would indicate an L34 or L35 if the car is a big block. L78/89's used a single fuel line since they had Holley carbs. L78 with a standard transmission is coded JJ. L35 with a standard transmission is an JB. Fuel pump doesn't have a return port on it, the fuel filter that sits above the water pump does.

All clues point to an L35/M20 combination. Still a nice find.

I bet your VIN is under the paint where I show it in this pic I edited. Mine is there, but so faint its nearly impossible to read while in the car. Use chemicals to try to clear the paint off and I bet you find it, then scrape white chalk over it or a dab of thin white paint that can soak into the number, then you might get a pic since you have a great close up camera there. Good luck.

http://www.brainerd.net/~knudsen/69RS/UnderHood/FilterVin.jpg

I can see your engine stamping says T0326JB. JB = 396/325hp with manual trans. I would say the stamping is legit. This is an L35 car and thats why you have the return fuel line setup. The trans stampings look good also and match the car. It is missing a few things and the brake booster is not original, but al in all looks like a decent BB Pace Car.

The trans picture looks like P9C22A to me which would be an M20. Return fuel line under the car would indicate an L34 or L35 if the car is a big block. L78/89's used a single fuel line since they had Holley carbs. L78 with a standard transmission is coded JJ. L35 with a standard transmission is an JB. Fuel pump doesn't have a return port on it, the fuel filter that sits above the water pump does..

Your most likely right...Looks like that main casting # can be for an M20/21 or M22...I thought that trans case # was for an M22 only...But after looking on CRG, it can be any of the 3....I figured the car was 325 hp car myself being the intake is not an aluminum high rise anyways..

Sorry I can't comment on the car, but off topic I wanna know what kind of camera you used. Some of those engine shots have amazingly clear detail and are very crisp.

It is very old floppy disk Sony Mavica...5+ years old...Still takes decent pics..even by todays standards I guess...But the lighting has to be very good..Thanks for the props on my picture taking skills :D

I can see your engine stamping says T0326JB. JB = 396/325hp with manual trans. I would say the stamping is legit. This is an L35 car and thats why you have the return fuel line setup. The trans stampings look good also and match the car. It is missing a few things and the brake booster is not original, but al in all looks like a decent BB Pace Car.

Ya, thats what i figured too..Wonder why the "J" cannot be seen? I figured the brake booster/master cyl had been replaced...What all else is missing except the smog pump and air cleaner gasket? I'm going to put this car back to original condition as much as I can..

Thanks guys!
-Gary

The A suffix indicates M20, B is M21, and C is M22.

Not much of a #'s guy but after a little retouch in photoshop I can make out the J in the photo almost looks like something else is there also but could just be marks in metal???? Hope this helps.


http://community.webshots.com/photo/443469455/508398560xyrNfz

Thanks again guys.. Is there anyway to tell is that matching # motor for certain? Im gonna check the oil filter pad more closely as suggested...

Also, how do you tell a 325 HP from a 350 HP? I need to order the air cleaner lid decals, and will need to pick one i guess :)

It is a 325hp car according to the engine stamping. JB is a 69 Camaro only code, so either it's out of another 69 camaro or it's the orig engine. I would definately check out the oil filter boss as suggested above for the VIN stamping. It should be stamped 19N625735.

In the last engine pad pic, the J is visible.
What's the axle code?

Did anyone ever hear how this panned out? Was this a real pacer and if so...what came of it?

Did anyone ever hear how this panned out? Was this a real pacer and if so...what came of it?

Yes, it was a real BB pacer, but just a 396/325 M20 car, numbers matching, but undocumented..The car sold several months ago..The new owner registered here, but i don't know if he is actively posting or not..

Gary

Thanks Gary for the update...........hopefully the new owner will share his story and pics with us.

Just a question of curiosity, how common is the BB/Manual trans Pace Car?

I have heard that no more than 200 were made, anyone knows.


Jan

Lots more than 200 BB made, probably around 900 to 1000. GM didn't keep the records on manual or auto transmission ratio, or even big blocks or small blocks with Z11. Thats just a guess based on having info on about 290 Z11's of which about 80 of them are big blocks.

Ok,

That more or less is in par with my records of the Swedish scene. I have 13 Z11's in my records and three of them are Bigblock cars, two with manuals.

Jan

Dang Mark, thats getting close to 1/3rd of production. Are we talking 1969 production or 1,000 of the current 8,000 Z11's running the street this week?