Front end too high [Archive] - Team Camaro Tech

: Front end too high


rusty Z
Dec 6th, 05, 07:18 AM
I replaced the front coils in my 68 a year ago. It was a straight six car, now a V8. I bought the new stock V8 small block replacement coils and it looks like a 4x4. I noticed that after a month and a half of driving I chewed up the outside of my tires. No spring "settling" either.
I replaced the sway bar end links as well with some poly pieces. Could these be the wrong length and force the camber to be wrong?? The top of the tires seemed to be pushed out, thery weren't before. I was thinking of putting the new springs in and disconnecting the sway bar to see if it makes a difference. Maybe cutting the link spacer down a little too? My new hotchkis 2" drop springs should be in soon to help I hope. Any thoughts? thanks

Eric Kammerer
Dec 6th, 05, 07:48 AM
It's very common for the replacement springs to be too high. I don't know if they are made with better materials, or if cars back in the day sat higher and we all just can't remember. I had to remove and replace the springs in my 68 three times until I got it right.

First, confirm that you got the upper part of the springs properly seated in the pockets in the subframe. You'll need a mirror and a flashlight to look up in from the bottom, or look in from the small inspection hole at the top of the pocket. If you can see the end of the spring in the inspection hole from up top, or can see that the spring is entirely in the pocket from below, you'll know that's not the problem.

Second, did you wait to torque the bolts at all the pivot points untill the car was on the ground with full weight? Even if you did, it may be worth it to go back and loosen, bounce the front end good, and retorque after a year has passed, just to make sure you don't have anything binding and holding it higher than it should be.

The sway bar shouldn't be the source of you problem, but it is a good idea to make sure the ends of the arms are roughly parallel to the ground when all the weight is in the front end; shorten the spacer and the bolt if you need to.

You can get matching front coils for the Hotchkis, or you can go with the Eibach front springs. That's what I ended up doing on the 68. For the 69, I cut one coil off the Moog OE replacement springs. You have to be careful cutting coils, a little at a time. If you search there's a lot of info here about how to cut them correctly.

Crooked springs (not seated) and taller springs could cause some camber issues, but it may just be in need of alignment (more shims at upper A-arm) after you get the ride height where you want it.

thorpe67RS
Dec 6th, 05, 07:52 AM
You need to get an alignment. Anytime you change springs will change your alignment.

JimM
Dec 6th, 05, 07:59 AM
You need to get an alignment. Anytime you change springs will change your alignment.
DITTO DITTO DITTO! The camber on our cars goes all over the place with changes in ride ht. Anytime you do anything that changes ride ht, go straight to the alignment shop!

rusty Z
Dec 6th, 05, 08:06 AM
Thanks for the responses guys. I plan on getting an alignment this spring because I am getting new tires too.
I did remove one spring to see if it was seated correctly and it was, I hoped that was the problem! It wasn't. I'll be sure to tighten things under the weight of the car this time. To what extent have you guys loosened the front end to replace springs? Hopefully these new Hotchkis springs will help.

SoCalFirstGen
Dec 6th, 05, 11:37 AM
The owner before me replaced the front springs and had the same problem. He ended up cutting a single coil off each one and it sat well. Eight years later, I have the car and the front end has settled into a nose dive but it rides firm. I feel your pain! I've been toying with a coilover conversion for the adjustability, or perhaps keeping the cut springs and getting the adjustable bucket to remedy my current situation and keep the firm ride. Has anyone done this?

rusty Z
Dec 6th, 05, 02:56 PM
I thought about cutting coils too but decided against it. I like where the nose of your car is though. I checked out your photos, great color scheme! I did the same thing, mine is Dodge Viper red with black Z stripes.

SoCalFirstGen
Dec 6th, 05, 03:20 PM
I just lowered the rear 2 inches to counter the lift bars picking it up and also to raise the nose up a little, so it looks better now. ;) I picked the paint scheme because nobody with a 68 had it at the time. Did you catch the most recent issue of Chevy High Performcne Magazine with the Blue Nova launching on the cover? There is a great center write up of a 68 Camaro with the red/black stripe paint scheme, 406ci engine, tko-600 trans, 12 bolt rear with the ford 9" outers and disks with 295 tires on all fours.

Edit:
I found the Owners site here (http://casanova.speedtech-performance.com/)

scblucam
Dec 6th, 05, 05:49 PM
This has gotten worse over the years. Most of the stock replacement manufacturers only make two or three springs for an application. The Camaro assembly manual listed about eight different springs for different accessory levels. The performance manufacturers seem to be the best way to go these days.

JimM
Dec 6th, 05, 07:28 PM
I'm not sure what they are, could be just putting different "correct" tags on em, but D&R is listing a bunch of springs this years.

New67RS
Dec 8th, 05, 02:53 PM
Hope you don't mind, but since you folks seem to know springs take a look at this picture.
The one is stock out of my 67 RS (I think it's a 6 cyc spring) The other is a "Factory Spec" for a 67 350 W/air from NPD.
I'm thinking of cutting one coil off. Or... Should I try a different spring. I wouldn't mine 1-2" lower.

Thanks, and sorry for butting in.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c375/12cycle/brakesandsprings001.jpg

BadLatitude
Dec 8th, 05, 05:31 PM
use 6cyl springs with a small block , sbc springs with a big block and u should get the slightly lower front end and an added bonus of the car launching a hell of alot better

Eric Kammerer
Dec 8th, 05, 09:37 PM
RS -

The spring on the left in your photo doesn't look like a 1st gen F-body spring. Ours are the same diameter on each end like the one on the right, no "pig tail". Did it even seat properly?

I put the spring on the right in my small block 68, and it sat like a 60s gasser, way nose high. You won't really know until you try it. If you want to be sure to get a mild drop and don't mind a stiffer spring, the Eibach Pro-Kit springs for our cars are a real nice choice.

jasonty
Dec 9th, 05, 02:52 AM
Drop in an iron headed big block. :)

DOUG G
Dec 9th, 05, 05:33 AM
When I bought my springs a few years back, Moog ? had the same PN for about 6 combos ( 6cyl. to SB w/ AC and emmissions).

My front end has only settled about 3/8" and I tried everything above and haven't cut yet....YET !

SoCalFirstGen
Dec 9th, 05, 11:40 AM
The spring on the right in that picture looks exaclty like the new springs purchased by the previous owner (my buddy) on my car. When we put them on, it sat like a 4x4 in the front (hence coil the cutting). I would have to agree with others that getting a good aftermarket spring (500lb) which is made to sit lower is probably a better idea than the cut route I have ended up with. While the cut route was good at first it quickly diminished. They also rode soft and had bottomed out in the past. I ended up running a rubber spring spacer in the bottom coil to bring the front end back up a little and stiffen it up. While its nice now, I think its a little ghetto for my liking.

CarlC
Dec 9th, 05, 03:50 PM
There is a great center write up of a 68 Camaro with the red/black stripe paint scheme, 406ci engine, tko-600 trans, 12 bolt rear with the ford 9" outers and disks with 295 tires on all fours.

Edit:
I found the Owners site here (http://casanova.speedtech-performance.com/)

That's mine. There's more up-to-date info on my website below, including using the Landrum springs and ride height adjusters.

SoCalFirstGen
Dec 9th, 05, 04:38 PM
Carl,
When I opened the mag and saw your car, my jaw dropped and hit the floor!!! Half of me was was mad that you did everything I was going to do before i finished (even the friggin paint scheme), and the other half absolutey stoked that you did and it worked so well (showed all my nay-sayers the article and laughed in their face!) Hope you don't mind if I ask a question though? :)

*****BEGIN POST HIJACK!*******

I have run hyraboost before on offroad trucks and noticed that a hit of the brakes could relate to a jerk of the steering wheel - have you felt this while cornering at speed - effects? I am eager to persue this over vacuum boosters.

*****END POST HIJACK!*******


Love the car, keep up the good work!!!

CarlC
Dec 9th, 05, 05:24 PM
Thanks for the compliments!

No issues on my end that I have noticed. However, mine is a Ford unit so it's sort of a Frankenstien system. I won't run another performance based car with a vacuum assist system again.

Paul at http://www.hydratechbraking.com/ is a wealth of information for these systems.

SoCalFirstGen
Dec 9th, 05, 07:09 PM
Thanks Carl, thats all I wanted to know. I felt the same way after my first hydraboost adaption. I've gathered one off a diesel 4x4 chevy truck. I'll PM you on some other stuff outside this thread some other time... when I'm not mad at you anymore ;) hahah!