OK, I assume these are ok to publish now - who's got the best Pony Car Concept car?

Check out the link first: http://automobilemag.com/auto_shows/naias_2006/0602_detroit_camaro_challenger_mustang/

Additional links:
Camaro: http://automobilemag.com/auto_shows/naias_2006/0601_chevrolet_camaro_concept/

Challenger:
http://automobilemag.com/auto_shows/naias_2006/0601_dodge_challenger_concept/

Mustang GT500 Convert:
http://automobilemag.com/auto_shows/naias_2006/0601_ford_mustang_gt500_convertible/

I hate to even type this but the Challenger gets my vote. The pics I have seen of the Camaro were disappointing.

Well, the Ford is out. It's between the Camaro & Challenger in my book. I'd have to see them in person to decide, so I didn't vote.. First impression is the Dodge. But it might look too much like an earlier one.

I hope they are all at the Philly IAS in February.

if that Camaro is for real, then forget it.
FUGLY.
but the Challenger, that is a pretty car.

There's a nice spread on the Challenger in the Feb. Car and Driver. I'll hold my vote until I see real pics of the Camaro instead of the mock ups. They estimate the Challengers price tag to be at 35K. A little much if you as me. 425 hp with time estimates of 13.0 1/4 with 4.5 0-60

looks to me like they all lose, for what your gonna pay none of them are worth it!!!

had to vote for the challenger, it's pretty, and it's real, unless C&D pushed the clay out in the fields to shoot, and airburshed in the tire smoke.
can't wait to see the real camaro in detroit!

Challenger all the way, hands down - but had you included the 'cuda, that would have gotten my vote - so far, Ford and Mopar have got it figured out.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b295/jaf31a/Cuda_powerslide.jpg

Challenger all the way, hands down - but had you included the 'cuda, that would have gotten my vote - so far, Ford and Mopar have got it figured out.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b295/jaf31a/Cuda_powerslide.jpg

That is bad ass.

Def-in-ate-ly the 'Cuda, it looks BETTER than the original. I will probably trade in the stang for one!

I keep waiting for the "gotcha" on the 09 camaro. Surely they will not actually produce that cadillac, um, I mean that camaro? (My wife has a Cadillac CTS, and I do like it, but not as a muscle car). Keep waiting for the Naw...... Here's the real 09 Camaro.

Challenger all the way, hands down - but had you included the 'cuda, that would have gotten my vote - so far, Ford and Mopar have got it figured out.

Hadn't heard about the 'Cuda yet - what's it's status? Production scheduled for some point?

Looks like some great cars coming out in the next few years that will eat the ricers.

I don't actually have any real info on the 'cuda except that I read somewhere it was also scheduled to come out around 09. I doubt it though, I don't think they would offer up both the challenger and 'cuda at the same time - we could only be so lucky. Although, correct me if Im wrong, but the challenger and cuda were basically the same thing, kinda like Camaro / Firebird, so maybe they will do it again in 09. I told myself I'd never buy a new car again after my tahoe - but if the price is even close to sane, one of those mopars will be mine :) um, of course, thats if the Camaro looks anything like the concept.

I'd vote for the 'Cuda if it was on the list. :thumbsup: The Rustang is already done. I mean it's basically an '05 with some trim. :boring: The Challenger is very cool, but it's almost too true to the original. :cool: (Looks almost like a Foose resto-rod.) And I have to agree with rich pern. That version of the Camaro is way too "Cadillac" for me. :sad: I'm hopping for one of the other concepts of the Camaro though.

Challenger, no question. The 'Camaro' doesn't look anything like a Camaro. I hope some Chevy engineers are taking note of this thread.

Kevin

wasn't the original 'Cuda a Plymouth?
last i checked, Plymouth isn't around anymore..
and "Chrysler 'Cuda" just don't sound right..

wasn't the original 'Cuda a Plymouth?
last i checked, Plymouth isn't around anymore..
and "Chrysler 'Cuda" just don't sound right..
Maybe not, but it still looks cool. :thumbsup:

I hate to even type this but the Challenger gets my vote. The pics I have seen of the Camaro were disappointing.

My sentiments exactly.

Whoever said the Camaro is kidding themselves. I understand brand loyalty, but if you changed those Challenger pics to single headlight and called it a 2009 Camaro, the vote would be unanimous.

If Chrysler makes that car, I will own one.

Look at this pick:

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/1903937a.jpg

This is really premature as until the Detroit Auto Show coming up we don't know what the '09 Camaro really looks like. If you notice the Camaro pic's are of a clay version of the car and split in half depicting 2 versions of which we only see one side of.

If you think about it during development this would be very early on as more likely there would be a full clay model and then there are sure to be changes along the way in actual build. At this point it's unfair to even think about comparing...

With the mustang you are actually looking at a real car not a prototype also. I think the ragtop looses all retro apeal completely. Anyone remember what teh prototype mustang looked like? Just bringing that up as both the dodge and Camaro prototypes may only resemble the prototypes once in production...

Very good points. On the simple comparison above, I don't think it is even close, but I do suspect that the Challenger's design will warp considerably when it gets closer to production due to the usual safety, visibility, and manufacturability issues. And I am really keeping my fingers crossed for the Detroit show. What day does the Camaro debut?

I maintain that the Mustang looks good, but from the front only. The rest of the car is soul-less and boring. No real distinctive lines, just a pseudo-classic stamping on a bland body. The rear is particularly contrived. It looks like a 2D picture of an old mustang, stamped in shallow relief in the back of a sedan.

I actually disagree about the retro-styling loss in the convertible... sortof. That is to say, I agree with you when the top is down, but when it is up, the ragtop roof looks more classic to me thanks to it being a bit squarer and lacking the awful quarter window.

This is really premature as until the Detroit Auto Show coming up we don't know what the '09 Camaro really looks like. If you notice the Camaro pic's are of a clay version of the car and split in half depicting 2 versions of which we only see one side of.
If you think about it during development this would be very early on as more likely there would be a full clay model and then there are sure to be changes along the way in actual build. At this point it's unfair to even think about comparing...

But a clay styling model this late in the game would have to be close to the design GM has in mind for packaging concerns if no other. The split front end tells me they are honing in on a design and are working out details.
I would be very suprised if the design debuted at Detroit strayed much from the model. I hope I'm wrong though.

But a clay styling model this late in the game would have to be close to the design GM has in mind for packaging concerns if no other. The split front end tells me they are honing in on a design and are working out details.
I would be very suprised if the design debuted at Detroit strayed much from the model. I hope I'm wrong though.

Can you tell us this clay isn't 2 or 3 years old? I know straight from the horses mouth that Chip Foose was commisioned to do a clay camaro for GM and had it to them back in 2002 or 2003... The only facts we know about the camaro pictures is they were stolen or leaked from GM last month.

i can't help but wonder if Dodge will do the same "bait and switch" that they did with the Charger- the concept car they put out about 5 years ago was beautiful- and everyone said "I NEED THAT", then when they came out with the "real" Charger, everyone said "what the hell is THAT?"
of course, in between the concept car and the production car, they became a German car company, and their new masters seem to think a box is more practical and safer than a wedge with sexy curves...
as for the Camaro, if it is anywhere close to that clay model, they deserve to go bankrupt.

DJD - you make a valid point about the accuracy of the clay pics of the Camaro - the original concept pics of our beloved 1st gens wasn't really to appealing back around 66 - Things could certainly change, the Camaro could look better than the pic and the Challenger could look worse. I wasn't real sold on the Charger when it first came out, mainly due to the truck grill and 4 doors, but its grown on me a little. Of whats out now, as odd as it might sound, I'd buy the Magnum before I'd get the 05/06 Mustang - not because I don't like Ford, but I think the Magnum has the looks down right - even if it is a station wagon (everyone at work thinks Im nuts for drooling over a wagon). The only issue is price - thats one part of the 'retro' feel they won't be able to capture - a Magnum with the top of the line Hemi runs pretty high, and Im certain the Challenger / 'Cuda will be the same way, and IF I were to buy one of those, I don't think I could settle for the base line engine.

Can you tell us this clay isn't 2 or 3 years old? I know straight from the horses mouth that Chip Foose was commisioned to do a clay camaro for GM and had it to them back in 2002 or 2003... The only facts we know about the camaro pictures is they were stolen or leaked from GM last month.

That's true, for all we know this could be an old design or a smoke screen.

Has anyone seen the Foose design he submitted in 02-03 ?

That's true, for all we know this could be an old design or a smoke screen.

Has anyone seen the Foose design he submitted in 02-03 ?

No, our local club here had 20 camaros displayed indoors at a goodguys show when he told me about it. History: I grew up in the same town Chip did and hung out with people that worked for Chips dad. I spent time camping and water skiing with the Fooses and mutual friends when Chip was a little tyke. Anyway My buddy Randy and I walked around the show with Chip talking cars and he shared the bit about his clay concept. A few weeks later Titus hosted a show like Rides that covered the build of the Foose T-Bird and at the end he walked over to a closed booth and mentioned even as Chips best friend he wasn't allowed to see the project Chip had just finished in there. I assume it was Chips clay camaro.

If/When Dodge and Chrysler build these cars GM had better have some sweet cars to compete... if not, they may be forgotten by everyone.

Someone needs to stop those rediculous Cadillac styling folks from ruining, otherwise cool cars.

Well, the Ford is out. It's between the Camaro & Challenger in my book. I'd have to see them in person to decide, so I didn't vote.. First impression is the Dodge. But it might look too much like an earlier one.

I hope they are all at the Philly IAS in February.The spread in the new C&D really makes me lean Challenger. But I will still reserve judgement.

You guys are amazing. I love the digs at Cadillac. They were only the top selling luxury car in the United States last year...but never mind that. Give em another kick.

As for the poll that's attached to this thread...you should wait until the REAL car debuts in a few days before you all start heading down to the Dodge dealership to press your faces against the glass. That image of the Camaro that surfaced a few weeks ago is of an old clunky clay model from back before last Summer. The damn thing doesn't even exist anymore.

Everybody take a deep breath now.

Good Lord.

Cadillacs are GREAT - but not when its badge says Camaro - thats the point people are making I think.

Infamous, I have agreed with the bulk of your statements in the past...but try and put yourself in the "Average Joe Camaro Lovers" shoes. You work for them, you see/hear things. 99.9% of us have been waiting VERY patiently for some hint that GM was going to compete with the Mustang. Now that the pics surfaced a while back, everyone is anxious to see what they are bringing to the table. This behaviour in all of us that don't work for GM is exactly what your employer wants-suspense! I personally think that from day 1 GM should have been beating their drums and making all sorts of hoopla, but instead, they run around acting all mad that a "glimpse" of a prototype that is 1.5 years old got out. I was kinda disturbed when I heard from several different sources that legal action would be taken if the photo surfaced etc. etc. It's just fine that everyone has their noses pressed to the windows of the Dodge dealership. Their cars are being spread on the forums like wildfire, They get to see the progression unfold and the people are reacting....

Dano

Cadillacs are GREAT - but not when its badge says Camaro - thats the point people are making I think.
EXACTLY! That was my point.

Infamous, I have agreed with the bulk of your statements in the past...but try and put yourself in the "Average Joe Camaro Lovers" shoes. You work for them, you see/hear things. 99.9% of us have been waiting VERY patiently for some hint that GM was going to compete with the Mustang. Now that the pics surfaced a while back, everyone is anxious to see what they are bringing to the table. This behaviour in all of us that don't work for GM is exactly what your employer wants-suspense! I personally think that from day 1 GM should have been beating their drums and making all sorts of hoopla, but instead, they run around acting all mad that a "glimpse" of a prototype that is 1.5 years old got out. I was kinda disturbed when I heard from several different sources that legal action would be taken if the photo surfaced etc. etc. It's just fine that everyone has their noses pressed to the windows of the Dodge dealership. Their cars are being spread on the forums like wildfire, They get to see the progression unfold and the people are reacting....

Dano
Well said.
I'm a die hard Chevy man, :thumbsup: but I hate the fact that as of late (last 5-7 yrs) GM has seemed to drag there feet with something to "really" compete in the mid priced sports car market. I know there main focus is in "main-stream" high sales volume, :boring: but I think they need some of the wow cars to get people into the show room. I mean remember the days of old. The average gear head didn't go into the showroom to buy a '69 Z28 RS/SS. Sure he wanted one, but he went in there to buy Chevelle sedan 4dr for his family. :( Or maybe a if he was lucky a 327 base coupe. :D Want proof? Does GM really believe that everyone is buying SVT Cobra's, and that F@#% can't sell a single V6 Rustang. Of course not. Granted there's the CORVETTE. Which seems to become a better and better super-car every year. And they have a great Cadillac line up. Yes there's the Cobalt for the tunner market. (Better late than never.) And lets not forget the back bone of the brand, and why most of us buy Chevrolet today. THE TRUCKS Don't get me wrong. I'm not totally bashing GM. I just think if they would stop looking at nothing but the bottom line and made some really COOL cars that the average person was exited about and could afford. :hurray: There bottom line would take care of it's self.

OK I think I've ranted enough now. I'll go stand in the corner. :waving:

IMHO GM in the last few years has been trying to hard make their cars look too futuristic. like that photo of the clay camaro. but i'll reserve my vote when I see the real thing.

You know what...what's the point? You guys will probably all hate it anyway, no matter what it looks like. I think the majority of you have it stuck in your head that GM is clueless so anything we build you're going to immediately be a cynic about it. I don't know why I waste my breath.

Actually at this point I'm kinda sorry I said anything about it in the past. Lesson learned I guess.

When the car debuts in a few days I think it might be best that I ignore any threads in this website that talk about it. All it'll be is some huge General Motors Bash Fest. I get enough of that from our media in this country already. But please....don't let me stop you. Keep laying it on thick...you're doing a wonderful job.

GM sucks. Pass it on.

You know what...what's the point? You guys will probably all hate it anyway, no matter what it looks like. I think the majority of you have it stuck in your head that GM is clueless so anything we build you're going to immediately be a cynic about it. I don't know why I waste my breath.

Actually at this point I'm kinda sorry I said anything about it in the past. Lesson learned I guess.

When the car debuts in a few days I think it might be best that I ignore any threads in this website that talk about it. All it'll be is some huge General Motors Bash Fest. I get enough of that from our media in this country already. But please....don't let me stop you. Keep laying it on thick...you're doing a wonderful job.

GM sucks. Pass it on.

Take a deep breath and don't let it get to you so much. I've noticed on every site I've participated or lerked there is a small but vocal group that always sees the grass as greener on the other side of the fence. I found a good digital camera site and it has forums for specific make and model. There is always a thread about what a turd this camera is or someone reviewing a camera based on a half days use. The Colorado site has the same guys posting about how cheap GM is compared to Toyota or Nissan because they are not playing the HP game or GM commericals are not as good as Toyotas...

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but it seems many are not very confident about it when they can't just support what they believe in and not take shots at the competition... That's just how it seems to be though so just ignore as much of it as you can...

Infamous,

For the record, I think everyone here loves GM. It's just that no one fights harder than two brothers, if you know what I mean. People have high expectations, precisely because of how passionate they are toward the GM, Chevy, and Camaro names.

I for one like the futuristic style of Cadillac, for Cadillac. I think the XLR "in person" is one of the sexiest cars I have ever seen. I think though, that it is not a Camaro, and several people had legitimate points in describing some of the design cues of the clay model as borrowing from recent Caddy styling. That is the point they were making.

The comparison of concepts is admittedly premature, as I said above, but not irrelevant. It is the best info we have at this point. I do not agree that you can't compare the clay model to the Challenger concept. They are both tangible concepts, certainly at different stages in the development pipeline, but both represent a vision. Certainly the Challenger design will change if it reaches production, but one could argue that it will probably change less than whatever concept is debuted for the Camaro, because Chrysler is evidently further along in the process. So to extend the "premature" argument, none of us would be allowed to have an opinion until late 2008. I don't think you can expect muscle car enthusiasts, particularly GM ones, to reserve ALL judgement while Dodge debuts what looks to me like a 69 Camaro with double headlights and the speedlines moved slightly upward, with a 79 Firebird single taillight panel. Heck, until next week, it is frankly all there is to talk about on the subject.

So just keep in mind that it is the loyalty to GM that is causing the tension! We want the best from the company that we think gave us the best historically, and we think is capable of delivering the best going forward.

I think we all want to look at the Camaro concept that is shown in Detroit, and rejoice. But the above conversation just shows that it is not a "gimme", that's all.

… but I think they need some of the wow cars to get people into the show room. I mean remember the days of old. The average gear head didn't go into the showroom to buy a '69 Z28 RS/SS. Sure he wanted one, but he went in there to buy Chevelle sedan 4dr for his family. :( Or maybe a if he was lucky a 327 base coupe. :D Exactly. I have said that before in one of the other zillion threads about this.

But GM needs to tighten the ship. Putting out the 5 years too late, me-too cruiser HHR doesn’t help their image; hell, it is embarrassing, it’s a joke. Production delays (or whatever) that prevented that great Solstice from hitting the showrooms in useful numbers until after the summer doesn’t help. And really, GM should fire everyone involved with marketing and PR (except the Caddy people. Their quality is up (JD Power) and some of their vehicles are real nice, but who knows that? Bad PR. Too busy suing the LA Times. Stupid.

Back to the concept. All I know is 1st gen guys seem to think this concept doesn’t look enough like a first gen, while fans of later gens think it is too much like a 1st gen. :clonk: That tells me it is either right on or way off. And that is why I have still refused to praise or condemn it (or pick a winner in this poll). I hope it is at the Philly show in February. If so, I’ll be there with my camera.

Edit: For the record, I would sell all of Buck’s cars & the bus (and perhaps Buck) to have a new CTS-V. :)

It's confusing to me that people say the Challanger concept looks like a Camaro. I don't know....I look at it and I see a Challanger. No Camaro design cues are present. Unless you're suggesting the '70 Challanger is a copy of the '69 Camaro.

I guess I made the mistake of assuming this car was going to be everything that everybody cried it should be. I sure thought it was. Hell...we ALL thought it was. A futuristic design with retro cues in an affordable package that competes with Mustang. Throw in an LS2, 6-speed and put a Camaro badge on the fender and they will come. I do find it interesting however that this is the only site where I'm seeing the car be flamed. Everywhere else, everyone seems very enthusiatic about it and can't wait to get into one.

On 2nd thought....I'll stick around for the Bash Fest. But I should note that in about 3 years it's going to be very interesting to see how many of these nay-sayers still hate the car and don't have one on order. You're going to say no to an LS2 and 6 speed in an affordable package with the word "Camaro" on it's fenders?

Yeah....we'll see.

it's the same thing that happened with the GTO- everyone spent about 4 years talking about how GM should ship over some Holdens and not change a thing except the badge on the grille.
well ,they did it, and everyone just looks straight past how awesome the car is (400hp, 6 speed, 0-60 under 6 seconds, low 13 second 1/4 mile times, AC, cruise, 25+mpg, etc. all in one car) and complains that it looks too modern or costs too much- at a price point that everyone said would be fair for a car of that caliber.
IT IS JUST WHAT THEY ASKED FOR- and yet they complain.
but i will say that if the "real" Camaro looks like that pic, the old schoolers will stay away in droves, and mostly kids will want one.
probably like the original 67 Camaro, in a way, i guess. honestly- back in 66 when the new Camaro came out, how many Tri-5 owners were lining up to get one?
as for the Camaro concept- it is fugly with a capital "F"- but i'm sure that the underpinnings are gonna be sweet..

It's confusing to me that people say the Challanger concept looks like a Camaro. I don't know....I look at it and I see a Challanger. No Camaro design cues are present. Unless you're suggesting the '70 Challanger is a copy of the '69 Camaro.



Except for the tail panel the dodge concept looks like a 1970 Cuda to me not a Challanger and the silhouette of the '70 cuda is very close to a '69 Camaro. I think that is how everyone is tieing the Challanger to the Camaro.

Only about a week away now it willbe interesting to say the least...

...You guys will probably all hate it anyway, no matter what it looks like. I think the majority of you have it stuck in your head that GM is clueless so anything we build you're going to immediately be a cynic about it....
Infamous- You have to know that you will NEVER please ALL the people ALL of the time.
I don't know why I waste my breath. Actually at this point I'm kinda sorry I said anything about it in the past. Lesson learned I guess.
As soon as you loose your passion for something, and become complacent. You get left behind, and are lost in the dust.

When the car debuts in a few days I think it might be best that I ignore any threads in this website that talk about it. All it'll be is some huge General Motors Bash Fest. I get enough of that from our media in this country already. But please....don't let me stop you. Keep laying it on thick...you're doing a wonderful job.

GM sucks. Pass it on.
We're not ALL just sitting here bashing GM. I looked back and I didn't see the phrase (GM sucks.) posted on this thread until YOU said it. (My computer search confirms this.) In fact allot of us have pointed out things we like from GM. Most have us have pointed out what we think are short coming on GM's part. We know that nobody is perfect. We just can't stand to see a company we feel so passionately about continuously miss the boat while other companies seem to keep hitting the mark.

And just for the record. I haven't voted yet and didn't plan to until GM can step up and put the name on what they're working on. Then I will vote on my opinion for or against the new Camaro.

Its not what you take to the party, Its whats there when you get there !!!

well, I like really like the look of the challenger...why??? because just like most people on this site...we are old school purist's....That challenger has the old school look to it. I think most of the first gen Camaro guys want to see that same old school look to the new Camaro as well (myself included)

But we are not the majority of the consumers....You never really know how It's going to be accepted until it hits the marketplace. I am sure GM is doing everything in their power to make the new Camaro a success...They are not intentionally bringing a POS to market, so that their stock can dive further.

Wait & See....But I'm still voting for the Challenger (And I'm not even a Mopar fan)


Just my .02

Dan

Except for the tail panel the dodge concept looks like a 1970 Cuda to me not a Challanger and the silhouette of the '70 cuda is very close to a '69 Camaro. I think that is how everyone is tieing the Challanger to the Camaro.

Only about a week away now it willbe interesting to say the least...

Exactly. The styling of a 70 Cuda is remarkably similar to the 69 Camaro in silhouette. I have always felt that the styling of many mopar cars in that period could be traced to a chevy from a year or so earlier. Compare the 67 and 68 Charger and tell me you don't see a heavy 67 RS Camaro influence changing the Charger rather abruptly the same way as the 69 Camaro influenced the change from the 69 to 70 Cuda.

I want one of each car posted in this tread, even the Camaro. If that a clunky ol clay model as infamouse says I can hardly wait to see what they have come up with. I love the clunky clay model pics. The shots I have of the underside of it are awsome. If you ask me a Vett in minuture wolfs cloathing. But then again I love the GTO also. I don't own one, but if I did and wanted to race someone all they are going to see is the tail lights anyway!!!!!

Joe

I don't guess that I see any real "retro" styling in the clay camaro. Now, obviously Im not an artist and may be missing something, but its very 'sharp' looking to me, very pointy, very angular, very 'stealth' like. Retro in my mind is sex on 4 wheels, panels that flow, dare I say, like a womans body with a grill that when seen in your rear view mirror on the highway, scares the snot out of you. (like an Alabama woman, nice curves and startling grill lol) Its not that the clay camaro is particularly ugly, its not, but I just don't see much retro in it. Matter of fact, the doors on the clay camaro almost look like they would be gull wing or lambo doors the way they are shaped (I know they arent). And as far as saying GM sucks - nope, never said it or thought it, I love my tahoe (well, not loving the gas mileage, but thats my own fault). If/when the camaro comes out looking the way the masses want it (which might not be what the retro crowd (us) wants, and it sells, then good for GM, and you can tell us all how wrong we are. But, to each his own, the GTO, as mentioned, has it all, but I personally don't like how it looks, reminds me of my friends sunfire. I wouldn't buy a 4cyl 'cuda just like I wouldn't buy a hemi powered bus.

Well Infamous...I honestly didn't mean to start anything over the clay model. I personally would buy it if it looks like the clay model (or even better). Silly that we all bicker when it hasn't even come out yet... If we look at the posts from 1 year ago, I would say that these today are tame by comparison. I thought that the clay model had plenty of first gen styling (in particular '69) Mostly in the quarter panel area. It has the quarter windows, side grills, raised body lines down the side, etc. From the back angle, it struck me as being very vette-like! (which is great imho) Real soon we'll see the "real deal". Mostly, I can't wait to get down to a dealership and take one for a spin! Hang in there Infamous and don't worry about public opinions, most of us change our minds/opinions at the drop of a hat anyway ;)

Dano:beers:

Here is my $0.02-

I like the Challenger design- in fact I'd call it love at first sight. If this car makes it to production without straying from the prototype very much it will be a home run for Daimler-Chrysler. Everyone I know who sees the current pictures says I want to be first in line!

Hopefully the general will step up to the plate...

For the record, the last time GM drew me to the showroom to see a new car they were producing was 1983, when the new Corvette came out. I actually made a trip to the dealership to see that car. Now becasue I drove in in a Vette the dealership didn't make any effort to steer me towards anything else they had on the lot, but they could have, and I know they did when the non vette crowd strolled in becasue the salesman said that was the purpose of having the car in the show room. This was about a month before the officail April 21 1983 release of the car. Nothing GM has made has mad since has drawn me down to the dealership just for that purpose. I've been to Ford dealerships to look at the Mustang, again not really intending on buying one, but smart salesmen at least get a shot at convincing me to buy something on the lot.

If GM can't get you on the lot, they can't sell you a car, truck or minivan. My current car I bought over the internet. it was local and I went there one night, checked it out and emailed an offer to the dealership. Deal was done, just like that, no hagling, no "wait till I check with the manager" type of BS. It was a take it or leave it offer, with no hard feelings either way. This is the way car buying is headed.

I do like the new camaro for the most part. I have the same issues with the grille that most do, and would definately like to see either an RS type grille, or a grille that would allow the RS type of grille to be an extra cost option. The rear end is very "vette" like but could live with it. The car has a much more pronounced fast back shape to it (if you see the video) which I think would proclude there ever being a convertible version, which I think would be a desireable option (assuming the substructure could support the lack of a roof).

It would probably pull me down to the dealership to look at, just the way it is, but unless it's in the low to mid 20's pricerange I wouldn't bother. I'm not saying that the top of the line Z28, or SS, or whatever has to be in that range, but some model of the car has to be available in that range.

Infamous we love ya and value your opinion. Please be patient with us. I see the same problem with GM as I do with the Detroit Lions. Loyalty from the masses. Every year we show up and are passionate, every year we are disappointed and vent. What GM, and the Lions, both need to notice is people are angry.........because they care. When no one cares any longer then it is cause for concern. Just the fact that people are still passionate about GM offerings and continue to feel disappointed means there is so much loyalty there, maybe more than is deserved. If you're a Lions fan and you want change, don't go to the game. When they don't sell out, they can't broadcast, when they lose viewers, they lose sponsors, when they lose the tv rights and sponsors they will have to listen. If you care about GM let them know it, hopefully they'll listen. When people quit caring GM is in trouble.

The Cadillac line is fine, for Cadillac. But not for the new Camaro. This trend started with the introduction of the Aztec years ago. It was designed to prepare us for GM's vision into the future. Soon the Avalanche followed those designs, then the Cadillac line got treated to the new styling. What we are saying is stop with the Aztec influence already, enough is enough. We say that because we care. It would be easy to give up and switch brands, especially since the other manufacturers get it and GM doesn not seem to get it yet. But maybe when the actual design is matured it will be closer to what the public wants as Dennis suggests. However in the past with GM, and most other manufacturers, what was eventually offered was a watered down version of the wild concept cars and that suited us fine, we fell in love with the finished product. There is concern today though that the concept Camaro is so far off base, so unexciting, so little Camaro that if you water it down it'll be hard to distinguish it from a Dodge Magnum (to me it's a cross between that and the 99 Mustang already, with a few more squared off Aztek/Cadillac lines in inappropriate places).

I hope they get it right. Time will tell. Until then be glad people care, GM needs its customer base now more than ever in the past. We want GM to succeed, but they need to listen to their customer if they are to succeed.

Where's the unconditional love for the bowtie and the Camaro ??

Its funny how we on here are upset for the most part that the Camaro isn't more like the 69's. I was on another forum that caters to alot of younger guys into the 4th gen and many of them were upset that the concept looked too retro like a 69 and not more like it was an evolution of the 4th gen. It all depends on where your perspective is derived from. The bottom line is Chevy wants to sell more Camaros than they were selling when they discontinued the 4th gen so the Camaro faithful like us are not what they are shooting for. The young guys and girls buying the import cars such as the G35, 350z, Accord coupes, etc.,are the people they need to bring back. This styling I think will appeal to them alot more than the the old 4th gen styling. With that being said, I like the Camaro concept and the Challenger concept equally well for different reasons. All things being equal, I would buy the Camaro over the Challenger. Only time will tell what we consumers will end up with for a final product.

If you gave me a MOPAR I'd only keep it long enough to flip it and buy another Chevy :D Retro is for has-beens :D Especially guys who think 74 Montes are good looking :D:D
(Sorry Derrik couldn't resist:) )

If they sell it in Garnet Red I'll be seriously considering one :cool:

http://www.protouring.se/files/0602_camaro_ofsk_02_900.jpg

i should be offended, but i'm not.
the fact that everyone else doesn't think the flowing curves of a 74 Monte Carlo make it the most beautiful form to ever hit any highway anywhere just means that i'll never have to pay the insane Chevelle and Camaro prices to have a car that i love in the driveway.
so, everyone ignore the fact that there is a shot of a SWEET 74 Monte in the Letters section of the new CHP, and just ignore and mock them and keep them relatively affordable for me, and allow me to keep cruising in style and comfort without needing to worry about matching numers and option codes all that useless crap.

Hope it keeps working for you Derrick :) Maybe some of these newer exciting rides will take some of the upward pressure off the muscle car market prices (we can hope anyway)

Just my thoughts here.......Dodge Challenger for me, hands down.

The mere fact the Daimler-Chyrsler design studio brought in a '70 Challenger (read a "live" car) to start an idea is a good place to begin.

The Camaro looks too much like the Impala with Coke-bottle shape qtrs.

Shelby Cobra GT500, hmm, supercharged engine in an already existing body. Humm, wonder if/how long it will be before the Challenger has a blower?

How do you know Chevy didn't bring a first gen Camaro into the studio ?

How do you know Chevy didn't bring a first gen Camaro into the studio ?
I don't, but by looking at the Camaro concept and comparing it to the Challenger, it appears GM did not have a live car. Too much 'Aztec' in the Camaro. Do you see any 'Aztec' in the 69 Camaro?

Add bumpers to the Challenger and it would look 97% like the '70 Challenger on the outside.

Just my thoughts.......

Add bumpers to the Challenger and it would look 97% like the '70 Challenger on the outside.

If you owned a '70 challenger and had your hard earned cash, busted knuckles and sweet invested in it, how would you feel if someone drove up in a new Challenger, parked next to you at a show and was awarded a trophy and your car wasn't? My point isn't about the trophy!

Why do we need old cars if the new ones look just like them...

Exactly....well said.

I'll take this one thanks....(Pic courtesy of David at Lat-G.net)

http://home.grics.net/~redean/Yenko2.jpg

Now that SYC 2009 photoshop mock-up is awesome looking - that will go heads to heads with the Challenger concept!

Regarding old vs new - as tough as it is to admit, old cars just don't drive like the new performance cars. But the old cars have all the style - why relegate those styles to the past? Besides, I'm not comfortable driving my Z on a daily basis. Really want the look, but a modern chassis to make it comfortable and driveable for daily use.

The SYC rendering is making me re-think this whole thing....looks great.

Why do we need old cars if the new ones look just like them...
Thirty-five years of technology would be a good start.

Quote from the wife: "What a concept, a 70 Challenger with a warranty." I can see her point, but, who has a couple million to buy a real 70 Hemi Challenger and it doesn't even come with a warranty?

Anyway, I'm not going to argue, just my personal thoughts. The Yenko does look nice..........

Everett I couldn't agree with you more. I also understand with what DJD is saying about having poured your blood, sweat and tears into a resto and some guy driving up in a current model year version of the same car and taking the trophy home. This would be very upsetting, but I bet it isn't a whole lot different than the feeling of having built the car yourself, I mean done it all and having someone pull in with the same 69 Camaro that they haven't ever gotten their hands dirty on, all they did was throw some cash at some one to build it for them and THEY take home the trophy. It's equally distressing to me.

I'd buy the Hemi Challenger complete with a warranty and I'm not a Dodge Boy! Did you see the Challenger in the background of the designers video? Sublime green with the dual black side stripes, looked good to me.

Why are some saying enough of the retro movement, then turning around and photoshopping the musclecar era paint schemes on to the concept cars or asking for 69 body colors? I think what we are seeing is the Camaro is a lot of different things to a lot of different people and their isn't a right or wrong way to revive it. I also think there are some who are afraid what it'll do to the value of their investments, but I don't think it'll really hurt them too much if at all.

let the old cars be classics and bring the new styles about, t omuch retro going on, whats next newer 70's cars, here comes your monte remake!!

On the road and track web site Chevrolet Camaro Concept Video http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=8&article_id=3124 They make the statement that "The new Camaro picks cues from the 1969 Camaro but more modern and edgy WITHOUT BEING RETRO." Unfortunately for us most of us WANTED RETRO. So I'm not surprised that most of us including myself are a little disappointed. With Mustang and now Challenger, I thought for sure GM would answer back just like they did in 1966. There are a lot of guys spending real money to make their own Retro versions A little thing like (pro-touring) you know the latest engines, brakes, suspention and comfort. Most of us don't have that kind of time. But I bet we could make payments on a GM payment plan if they offered a factory built pro-tour car. Personally I think they should build the true retro version but they would be wise to start with a 67 version besides they already made the 67 "CAMARO" emblem and then work they're way up 68, 69, 70,. It would build excitement to get to your favorite year. We couldn't wait to see what the next year would look like. Hey I got an idea let's save the "CAMARO" emblem put the Cadillac or Cobalt emblem in it place, then build a true retro Camaro. and we'll all be happy! I've always be a Chevy fan but I vote for the Challenger (ouch this hurts)
Dennis

hmm. collect new Camaros just like you collect all 50 state quarters..

im buying the challenger rt... im sorry,but chevrolet had another chance to make good....but FAILED!

i like both the challenger and the camaro. its just great to see a good change in the way they are styling the cars. i thought it was getting old seeing all these new american cars, except the caddys, starting to look like imports. i gues i would buy a challenger untill the camaro came out then do a trade in.

oh, by the way, since they are starting to look like 1st gen. cars, maybe you can get a fake trim tag, put on some z28 badges and sell them on ebay.

angel

im buying the challenger rt... im sorry,but chevrolet had another chance to make good....but FAILED!

Cool, so in a couple of years we'll race Challengers through downtown Queen Creek!!!

Retro is great, but replica is not. That Challenger is TOO much like a '70. I haven’t embraced the '09ish Camaro yet, but I wouldn’t want a '70 Challenger built in 2008 or a '69 Camaro built in '08. If you want replica, buy a '69 kit Camaro! Retro is too cool, but modern improvements and look is too.

I do think the '09ish Camaro is too corvette in the rear. A little too Cadillac (block-like). Could improve the grill a bit. A modern version of the Gen1's would be excellent! Of course I am partial to Gen1's. Just bring the baby back!

I think GM is missing the boat here.. big time...it needs to be more retro. I am not a mopar fan, but I would take the new challenger over the Camaro concept any day. The nose / grill of the camaro is a caddy and gives no impression of its Camaro origins. The only thing that is decent is the rear side window pillar area, the rest of the body I have problems with. I like the challenger better even though I have been a die hard camaro person for 25 years.

hey guys, i think the same thing is happening to gm now as happened to ford and chrysler in the 60' and eairly 70's. ford is 2 steps in front of gm with the mustang and mopar is 5 or 6 in front of ford and gm with the challenger. "LORD FORGIVE ME FOR WHAT I JUST SAID AS I THOUGHT I'D NEVER HERE THOSE WORDS COME FROM MY GM MOUTH! AMEN With forgiveness ask for I hope gm will help save my sole and get on with a real 68-69 camaro concept. SIGNED WORRIED LOL

I agree POCO.
I have a 68 and would like to see the new one look more like it, with new features.
I hate to admit it, but I think Ford did it right with the 05 Stang, and I think the Challenger concept is top notch.

I think the Camaro with some tweaking is better than the dodge or ford. The camaro has room to evolve over time. The dodge and ford are stuck, because what they first release will be the best it gets. If you add the Z28 stripes or SS hockey stripes with badges the car would stand out also. I have a friend who bought a new mustang. What a P.O.S. It has spent about as much time in the shop getting repaired as it has on the road. Has dodge ever improved their quality? They seem like they are due for a new transmission every other year. I will wait for the camaro!

I had to do a quick cheap blend of the Camaro and Challenger concepts.

I like the single headlight look of the Camaro, here is what I merged. The CHALLMARO

http://www.nabba.com/CHALLMARO.jpg

I was just messing around with that, but I actually would prefer the new Camaro's styling, if the front grill was flattened a bit, and the round headlights accentuated more.

Dvinny, Please no Camstang!

Thats funny!! This is a Camaro site and over 2/3 of the people voting like the challenger more!!! Wake up Chevy!!!! Wake up.

Based on GM's poor production numbers for the Pontiac Solstice I doubt we'll be seeing any new Camaros before 2010!

I Love it... As much as I hate to say it,, You've gotta thank Ford for this... They started this whole retro thing remember..??.. At least Detroit is trying, it's better than business as usual... I knew when they discontinued the Camaro's back in 02 the General would do something like this.. Would'nt it be cool if they offer a Ralley sport version with hide away head lights:cool:.. I wonder if there will be a Z28 option also.. I think they need to do something with the ass end of this car, the spoiler sucks, the trunk is to moulded and to short... You know, if were lucky this could just get better n better!!!!...:hurray:

I might have to turn to the Mopar. I love that Challenger! Sweet looking ride! I like the Challmaro. LOL!

I was just messing around about the Challmaro, but here is my version of what I'd like to see. I'd buy this car.
http://www.nabba.com/DVnewmaro1.jpg

Looks Good Dvinny, What Do You Have In Mind For The Rear Taillight Panel?

Does look good Dvinny. That rear section could make or break this concept. If you like vettes and caddies, you probably like this concept.

Is the concept a hatchback? I dont see where they could squeeze in a trunk. It is starting to grow on me. I like the stance and the thickness of the design. 400 hp off the line is pretty sweet too.

This is the car I am waiting on!!!!!!!!!!! Love my verts.

http://www.nabba.com/DVnewmaro2.jpg

Dvinny that is Sweet! Wait... another Dodge reference.

When is GM going to pull their heads out and get into the game. Bull crap looks of that camaro is not selling me, what a shame.

I'm thinking the new Camaro is starting to grow on me little. The more I see of it, th nicer it gets. Straighten out that front grill some and I think it would be even nicer. Not quiet as nice as that new Dodge ... but nice.

I personally like all three, but when I first seen the Camaro I did say" I have to have one", so I guess I am in the minority here. A couple days ago I was talking to my Dad, who hasn't seen the new camaro concept, and he said people were complaining about the new design of the 69 Camaro and then it grew on everybody and it is now the most popular first Gen. I think this new design will have the same effect. When Chevy changed the s-10 in 1994 I hated it because I liked the older square body, then a year later I bought a brand new 95 because it had grown on me. If Chevy doesn't make the new Camaro then you will definately find me in line at the Dodge dealership. I feel like I am all over the place..... but excited none the less that there is some competition for the F@&D.

I agree with ya Hoosier.

Great points

Look, the thing is that GM is marketing this car to the general public. Not to classic Camaro owners. It may offend some here, but that is the way that it is.

It doesn't make sense for them to do a pure retro Camaro- why follow DCX and Ford? Instead, GM is innovating in this segment, which is music to me.

Also, cars have grown. The pictures that I have seen of the pure retro Camaro concept that GM was studying before going with the current concept looks bloated and goofy- the large single headlight doesn't work well for me on that size of car. I drove over to Detroit two saturdays ago, and let me tell you that in person THE CAMARO IS KILLER. Seriously, after you see it in person, you will love it. Trust me ;-).

Compared to the Camaro, the Challenger looks HUGE. It not only looks huge, it is. 4160 pounds of huge if I remember correctly.

The Camaro just has so much more character that is not conveyed through pictures. I think that judgement has to be reserved until you see it in person.

The good news is that the production Camaro is said to be as close to this concept as the Solstice is to the concept. No matter what happens, things will get fun!

" The pictures that I have seen of the pure retro Camaro concept that GM was studying before going with the current concept looks bloated and goofy- the large single headlight doesn't work well for me on that size of car."

So you saw the retro version ? Where did you see it ? Why not let the general public decide ?

I think I'm trying to ask myself which car I would rather have for about 30K. I think a 69 look could be tweaked to look softer than my car and be really killer. I think it could appeal to a very broad audience. It would look like a custom 69. It might kill the value of our cars but it sure would be nice to have a nice tight, quiet first gen type car at a decent price. At least make a attempt at one and show it to us. Then decide.


http://www.lateral-g.net/Mule_vs_5thGenc.jpg

Excellent pic Clill. Very cool back light from that passing storm. You could sell prints of that one.

JD

Well, just like all buying decisions, It's a matter of opinion. The Challenger is very replicate and I think most people will like it, as shown by the poll. As for the Camaro, I feel GM took the retro Idea and tried to build on it. Problem is, It doesnt look the part. Other than the Grill and Rear design, I think the new camaro is pretty darn nice, and just like any sports car, It probably looks more beautiful in real life. The only thing GM has to be careful of, is not to make it look like a Corvette, which from some angles, it does. And so what If the new Challenger is too Retro, you know it's got all the new technology, without a overhanging hood or suspension issues, and the interior I feel looks superb. As of right now, the Challenger get's my vote/

95 Black on Black LT1, 278 RWHP, 334 Tq
Magnaflow, K&N FIPK, Chip, Air Foil, Thermostat, 3:23's

Excellent pic Clill. Very cool back light from that passing storm. You could sell prints of that one.

JD

[Off topic]

John, here you go: http://www.lateral-g.net/lillard/MuleThunder.jpg

[/Off topic]

Thanks Scott! Just a fantastic shot (and car too!).

John

You know what...what's the point? You guys will probably all hate it anyway, no matter what it looks like. I think the majority of you have it stuck in your head that GM is clueless so anything we build you're going to immediately be a cynic about it. I don't know why I waste my breath.

Actually at this point I'm kinda sorry I said anything about it in the past. Lesson learned I guess.

When the car debuts in a few days I think it might be best that I ignore any threads in this website that talk about it. All it'll be is some huge General Motors Bash Fest. I get enough of that from our media in this country already. But please....don't let me stop you. Keep laying it on thick...you're doing a wonderful job.

GM sucks. Pass it on.

This kills me. Every other Camaro site I know of is acting like this thing was the second coming. You are actually this upset with people who honestly aren't totally thrilled with it? Like somebody posted earlier, you can't please all of the people all of the time. If GM was really looking for honest response to this concept, they'd be just as interested in what the Camaro enthusiasts who don't like it would have to say. Some of us don't kneel at the General's throne, we actually have an honest opinion and have to like what we're spending our hard earned money on.
If you have to look on the bright side, this is the only Camaro thread on the web I've seen where this car was deamed less than perfect.

I don't like to say this but I think the challenger is better looking than the camaro. I think I was expecting the new camaro to look more like a first generation camaro. The challenger & mustang brought back that early muscle car look that I miss and the camaro looks too futuristic.

Ditto here, ^^^ to me it looks like the guys at GM kinda got off track started to go retro than went current than future way too much at one time, I do like the hood and the rest of the top of the car the interior is ok but, I quit there.
The Mopar camp nailed it, retro, than done period =sales, add all the great technology of today inside to make it work, you have a 1970 muscle car that meets the generation now and then and what a better time than when the numbers matching muscle cars are going crazy price wise and the restomods picking up pace quickly this will definitly put a crimp in the restomod market maybe even halt it.
MaMopar gets my vote and cash.

I just saw it at the chicago show, it really does look better in person! It does.
The picture and for real wow , a difference. I would still want to flaten the front end to lose the air slit in the hood but after seeing it in person its cool!
Thats my only thought I could easly see that in my drive way. It doesnt screem retro , it confuses me between retro and hot. The door handles I dont know if they push out or is it just for show as a concept ,but they are almost a flat peice of crome. Never seen before. I am veiwing it as a tribute to the first gens but a hot new car. It confuses me! It sure looks fast. You would know its a camaro coming down the street.

I also think the interior is perfect. At the end of the day I want a camaro a mustang GT 500, A Ford GT, a hybrid escape. Any one got a couple of bucks I could barrow? OH And one vet would be nice for when im in the mood. I can dream cant I?

Here's the picture from the GM design center that I was referring to... (the one on the left is the more retro one and the one on the right is more what we got)
http://www.f-body-forum.info/attachments/camaro2009_creat4.jpg

I just think that the proportions are off on the one to the left... looks too big as well. Still, a lot here will probably like it.

I do find it interesting how late model enthusiast websites love the thing and a first gen site says no thanks... I guess that it really does go to show that it's not really retro at all...

I saw a Cadillac XLR on the road the other day. This new Camaro is starting to look a lot like a Cadillac. Not something a Camaro was ever confused with.

I notice in every picture where the concept sits next to a '69, the concept looks huge.

I like the roof line better on the concept at the left of the picture. The one on the right is a Cadillac roof line.

Challenger.

Ok, I'm new to this site but my opinion is this. I was so glad to see the head of GM bob clutz actually driving this mean machine and was not so set on loving it when I first saw it . GM does know there stuff when it comes to design but lately the US is more concerned in pleasing the mom and pop culture and the pimp my crap generation , Personally the camaro (which I have owned 10 camaros) is a car that does not need to be mistaken with other cars . The new concept vehicles are all nice but the challenger looks more real to its name sake. the mustang cobra looks to gaudy and weighs almost 4000 lbs, the camaro is nice but to funny looking in the front end and the tail end is just NO! chevrolet ,ford and dodge are on the right path but are going about things to impress the wrong people . camaro owners like power and cool designes that fit their budget and can build a one of a kinder hot rod , ford mustang fans will not spend 40K for the cobra that looks to much like the gt model with design fups. So we as camaro people should look to this concept " If you want something done right do it yourself , don't let Bob clutz do it for you" !!!!

I have previously voiced that I was a bit underwhelmed, but I could get on board with the concept from the show if it had the nose from the leftmost car above.

I do agree that the left car elsewhere looks out of proportion - sort of like a bloated version of a '69. But then again, the 69 is 37 years old. It can't be expected to go to the gym everyday like it used to... what with the kids, and the boss breathing down his neck....

Challenger got my vote, im by no means a dodge fan, but something about that 09 maro just doesnt look right, i like it and all, but they pretty much naild it with that Challenger

put some more colors on the camaro like black w/ white strips ,or hugger orange w/ black and you guys will be doing back flips and add a drop top , you be saying where do i sign !!! it all about the color...

put some more colors on the camaro like black w/ white strips ,or hugger orange w/ black and you guys will be doing back flips and add a drop top , you be saying where do i sign !!! it all about the color...
I would think the same. Looks good in that color, but it would be nice to see a pic in a red or orange.
The challenger I saw was in orange. Maybe it does make a difference.

Just my thoughts but I feel that GM is losing a great marketing/sales opportunity by not releasing the new Camaro as a 2007 model. Doesn't a 40th Anniversary model sound a lot better then a 42nd Anniversary model??

Or wait another 5 years and release it as a 45th Model.

GM just doesn't seem to be with it lately.

Rick H.

I had to vote for the Challenger.

IT would be a shame if Chevy comes out with the "Camaro" shown there. If they carefully develop something (in my opinion) as timeless as the 1st gens, many many Camaro owners would have two Camaros parkedin their garages, the 5th gen, and whatever gen they had before. The new and the old. What a waste if Chevy can't produce the goods.

-Mike

http://barney.gonzaga.edu/%7emschwart/car.html

The 5th gen Camaro needs to be a bit more 1st gen retro. It can still look contemporary with more 1st gen retro than it has now. Kill the Cadillac look.

Tone the LH car down some and it will look good. Put on some more practical wheels, no larger than 17" diameter, and make sure they fill the wheel wells.
It looks like one of those new trend cars, don't they call then "Donk's" or something?
Just the opinion from an older guy.

I guess either the concept is growing on me, or the original pictures were the worst imaginable angles, becaues these eye level pics from autoweek really make the car look exciting. I think the beaky-ness looks worse the higher your perspective.

Make sure to cycle through all of these, and be patient because it loaded slowly even with broadband:


http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=CW&Date=20060501&Category=PHOTOS01&ArtNo=501001&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=6

Well, I saw the Camaro yesterday at the Power Tour in Columbia, SC and boy, does it look better in person! Several of the guys I went with had previously made negative comments, but after they saw it, they were all deciding what color they wanted. I too had wanted a more retro car to sit next to my '69, but that thing sure did make me drool! I'm saving my pennies!!

Gary

as for those three i pick challenger. the camaro is pretty ugly to me. now if this was really the camaro they are making then its hands down this one. http://chadp.net/gallery2/download/5943-2/gen5Camaro1.jpg

More I look at the picture of the concept camaro that was just recently on the powertour,,, the challenger is gonna take it... Camaro I saw looked more like a caddy , hope they didnt finish the car .. even the new saturn sky looked better than the orginal camaro drawing....Gm better wake up and smell the coffee and build cars the public will pay big dollars for if they don't want Toyota to take them over.
Just hope some gm exc's are reading these comments .

Its a tough choice between the camaro and the challenger but i would have to go with the camaro. When i first saw it in the magazines i though chevy had gone wrong. Then i saw it in person What a different appearence. Chevy all the way!!!

I think the brake vents have to go I did not like them on the 69 also. If I was to buy one I would have them taken off.

Id buy the new camaro for sure. its not because i am a die hard Chevrolet guy and hate all other non gm brands with a passion but its the better looking of all the cars in my opinion. but to be honest id buy a bunch more 1st gens before id ever buy a new car. you cant compete with an old car i feel.

The poll speaks for itself. And this is a Camaro website!!!!

The poll speaks for itself. And this is a Camaro website!!!!

Again this is a 1st gen site which lends itself to folks being retro-minded...

I agree that the poll speaks for its self and that is what scares me. Here we are on a Camaro sight and obviously most of us are picking the Challenger. I think that speaks volumes. Perhaps a petition and the promise of orders of 100,000 units would turns GM's head around? Short of that all we can do is hold our breath and hope for the best. I sure hope a miracle happens and a better design shows up on the show room floor. I would hate to add a mopar to my Camaro collection, but I want a new car, and I want one that reflects my personality, not aquick cash grab from GM, hoping to luck out on cashing in on the tuner market. If that is what they are trying to do they are sunk, as those kids want tuners, not resurected relics that don't even have a retro cool factor as a novelty. Kids today are a lot smarter than we are giving them credit for and I wonder where Gm did their research to drive the Camaro in the direction thay have. If any one knows, please enlighten us!

To all the people who voted for the challenger go ahead and buy it i'll take the camaro any day. The camaro will out sell the challenger any way buy a large margin.

why not something new and original? it may just be me.
on a side note, was i the only one bothered by the f@#d ads with S.Mcqueen or gm with H.Earl. these guys have have been dead for a while. i wounder what they would think?

Again this is a 1st gen site which lends itself to folks being retro-minded...

I agree to a point.

I was hoping for a retro design and was disappointed when I saw the prototype. But I am coming around to what Chevrolet has targeted with the new Camaro. When I look at the car purely as a modern car, competing in a 200X market, I think it's a decent design and viable for todays market. With that attitude, I like the car and might buy it as a daily driver. I still would have preferred a more retro design though.

why not something new and original? it may just be me.
on a side note, was i the only one bothered by the f@#d ads with S.Mcqueen or gm with H.Earl. these guys have have been dead for a while. i wounder what they would think?

Yes, let the dead lie....:mad:

I must be getting to old, but another member described the camaro perfectly.....Fugly

NONE OF THE ABOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

The FORD 49 is a bitchen car! They should build it BUT they wont!:mad: The only new car I would buy!

The Challenger gets my vote. I've had my 68 for over 30 yrs and have always thought that gm ruined the Camaro when they drastically changed the body style in 1970. So I was hoping the new camaro would look more like the original. The current version looks like a cross between a Cadillac and a Chrysle 300. Sorry to say this, but as far as looks go, it blows!

:angry:

as far as kids and tuners i have a 79 berlinetta with 305 and refuse to use supercharging or trick of the week power adders. im 15.
the only reason that a car should need superchargers or turbos is if its engine has no balls to begin with

Whoever said the Camaro is kidding themselves. I understand brand loyalty, but if you changed those Challenger pics to single headlight and called it a 2009 Camaro, the vote would be unanimous.

If Chrysler makes that car, I will own one.

Look at this pick:

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/1903937a.jpg


My God, that pic is unreal. I mean, that car is stunning. It puts the new Camaro to absolute shame.

I swore off new cars, but I think I might bite the bullet for a Hemi Challenger.

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