I've had my '68 for over 10 years, and everything that has been done to it I've done pretty much myself (with help from friends). It now has front disc brakes, all poly bushings, new front suspension, new front & rear springs, frame connectors, rebuilt 8.5" rear with moser axles, 700R4 trans, and a vortec 350. The car needs nothing in the mechanical or electrical departments. It also has a decent interior. What it lacks is a slick body and paint job, and I'm not even going to attempt that. I've been looking for someone who I felt would do a good job on it, and finally found someone: http://moandcurleysrod-custom.com/ They are only about 20 minutes from where I live. I took my car and let them look at it. I was amazed at the quality of the cars they were finishing with, one was a '67 Camaro. I was shocked at the estimate they gave ($10K-$15K - labor rate $35.00/hr)! But, they are going to replace everything but the doors, top, and front valance panels. The car has been hit in the back, needs floorpan work, and has rust on the upper dash. This car means a lot to me (you guys know what I'm talking about). It makes me sick to think about selling it, but I'm not happy with the way it is. I have about $10K in the car right now; am I crazy to consider putting $ 20K+ into a "plain jane" '68 ? I plan on keeping the car indefinately. I'd like to have the opinions of you guys before I hand it over. This is a high quality shop, and I think they'll do a great job on it. Thanks, Ron.

I've read a lot of posts that say a good quality paint job runs $5-$10K. Yours is probably on the high end because you found a really good shop, and it sounds like they are going to do a lot of body work first.

But to your question....I would say if you are planning on selling the car....don't invest in the paint job as you won't get your money back in a plain 68. But if you plan on keeping the car for your own enjoyment for a long time......the sky's the limit.

If it makes you feel any better I probably have $20K in my 67 convertible....and that is before paint. So I'll be in $30K before I'm done. But it has high sentimental value as I t has been in my family forever, I bought it with my dad when I was 10, and it is the car I hot rodded around in high school. I hope to pass it on to my son someday.

A lot of new cars cost $20-$30K but I bet your 68 will be more fun to drive and turn more heads than a new Camry...

Bottom line....there is no right or wrong answer. Just do what you think is right.

Mark M.

I know its alot of work, but maybe, like me, consider taking a stab at doing alot of the grunt work before taking it to be finished/painted. I will most likely not paint anything major myself, but I have no aversion to getting as much ready for them as possible. Especially is it is just the prep work. Every hour you cut off their time saves you $$, and you might find yourself good at it...

Worth a try.

From some of the estimates I got for the rsto on my 76 LE T/A...$15K to start and if they find anything after its stripped the price goes up from there(Yeah Right)......I looked around and found another body shop..The guy said I could strip the paint..Replace any panels and weld everthing myself(With his guidence) it at his shop using his equipment at no charge just pay for my supplies..He would just do the bodywork and paint.....Show quality ..His work set me back 10K..But the car body work and paint is flawless....So 10-15k with all those replacement panels sounds like a reasonable price...Good luck

------------------
76 LE Trans Am 455 4 speed.. # Matching..

68 Camaro R/S 327 4 speed

Thanks for your opinions, guys. I've decided to go for it. I'm going to put on a Vintage Air kit first, and then hand it over.

I spent about $15k for body work and a true show quality paint job. You can check it out on the info X change #277. It included both front quarters, one new rear quarter, front valance new grill, new front window, rust repair to dash/front window area, minor rust repair at rear window, all new chrome, weather stripping, marker lights, new cowl hood, front and rear spoilers, SS stripes, and lots of clear coat. I now have a total of $25K in the car with about $5K more to get it exactly where I want it (700R4, Recaro seats, etc). Also, its been 3 solid years of work, and I'm burned out. If I wanted to sell it, I might get $15K to $18K. When all is said and done it will be exactly what I want and I know that everything has been done right. Having said that, until the paint is stripped off, you don't know exactly what you have. So look for the body work estimates to be low, and expenses go up real quick. All that chrome that looks fine now, will look like crap against shinny new paint. If I had to do it all over again, and knowing what I know, I would let someone else put the $30K into it and then buy it for $20K ready to drive. This assumes that you know enough not to get ripped off. The good thing about being here in H-town is that there is a resto shop that is first class and they have cars they have done work on come up for sale all of the time, and they will readily tell me what any of them are worth. Also, having been through it you learn a lot, but if you don't know who did the work, its a crap shoot. Having access to that info, my advice is not to throw $25K into a car that will only be worth $15K. Take the $25K and buy one someone else put $35K into!!! I have a couple of friends looking to get into cars, and they will be sitting in cars that are pretty nice, for less money and with none of the hassle I've gone through. Also, once you get a show quality paint job on the car, you won't want to drive it. Good luck. Its not the destination, its the journey!!!

The restoration hobby isn't about about making money. If it was, the resto shops would not be working on "your" car, they'd be working on their own.
I agree with Green68. If your interest is in rebuilding a car, from whatever level, go do it. If your interest is in driving a restored car, go buy a restored one.

Depending on the amount of work you do yourself (and equally important, how much you care about technical accuracy) You can get most of your money back out. But you'll never recoup the labor you put into it.

It's got to be the journey!

I'm looking at it from this perspective... Since I've been old enough to even care about cars (I'm 37), the 1968 Camaro has always been my favorite. Even though I intend on keeping it indefinately, I compared doing this to buying a new car that I like in the $ 25,000.00 range. I know that there are technological advantages to owning a new car (sometimes they're disadvantages !), but what will that new car be worth in 10 years ? Probably less than half what I paid for it. I think the '68 will at least maintain or maybe increase in value, if I take care of it. And so what if I can't sell it 10 years from now and recoupe what I spent; what else (boats, bikes, and other toys) can you enjoy and get your money back when you're through with them ?

Amazingly, the wife was the easy one to convince that re-doing the car is a good thing. I'm the one that's been hard to convince. And before anyone out there thinks that I've got 15K lying around to throw at it - wrong ! I am fortunate enough to have an employer sponsored 401K plan that I can borrow from, so I'll be paying this money back out of my check every week for the next five years. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts.

The first mistake people make is figuring they will just spend $15K and be done. Then the tranny goes, then the A/C needs to be fixed, new radiator anyone, boy I sure would like it to be a little bit faster. Did you see those wheels??? Man that looks great, I need gages like that for mine. The second mistake, and if I had a nickel for everyone that said I'm going to keep the car forever...Well I'd probably only have about 50 cents, but that makes ten real nice cars I could have bought for half to maybe 2/3 of what they had in them. You are right about the overall value of new vs. old. An old car will always have value. I agree its about fun and not the money, but if there is more fun to be had for less money, count me in!!! You can always get the car painted six months from now. Spend some time and check out what you could get instead. For $15K you can pick up a whole nother car, and a pretty nice one at that if you are patient and know what you are looking for. Then you would have two. Hard to get much funner than that!!!

You almost had me convinced you were doing the right thing right up til you said "loan against the 401K" My advice is if you want to keep the car, find a cheaper shop. There are plenty of shops that do good work. Go to a local car show, find a nice car and ask who did the paint, how much did it cost and would they do it again. You will probably be shocked at the answers you get. Chances are they looked at a bunch of different places and talked to a bunch of different people. As a better option to throwing $10K out the door, look into doing it a piece at a time. They can do a front/rear quarter and primer it up and paint it later. Then good with decent paint rather than "show" quality. There are a lot of options out there. Don't mortgage the future for something with no return if you don't have to.

Some great thoughts/comments here. Please let me add my .02...

I bought a 69 a little over a year ago for 6k (orig 6 cyl). It was in good shape and the 327 was strong. I went to a show and saw a friend's car, 502 Bob's 69 Camaro, and said "Dang!"

When I went home that night I started to put a plan in place to do a frame-off. I know it's going to cost A LOT of $$$ and take a while to do (3 - 5 yrs) as it's been A LONG time since I've done any major car work and I don't have a lot of extra time or cash. :-( I also know I will NEVER get 1/2 the money back that I'm going to put in because it's not a RS, SS, Z, ...

But, it will be a heck of a lot of fun and I will have a blast driving it when I'm done! I know many of you will think I'm crazy but I love my car and I'm going to do it!

Thanks for listening and best of luck with all your projects!

Regards,
Rob

Green68, I sincerely appreciate your thoughts and the time you've taken to reply to me. Let me tell you a little more detail about the 401K loan to see if it makes you think differently. Even after I borrow the 15K, I'll still have over 50K left in the account for Vanguard to invest. The money that I am borrowing will be paid back at 8% interest, but the interest that I pay back goes directly back into my account. Where else can you get a loan like that ? I look at it sort of as taking money out of one pocket and putting it in another.

The 15K that I borrow won't be there to invest, but it will be earning 8%, even if I am the one paying it. I know that things will eventually change, but here lately the money has not been earning that much anyway. I still have 30 years left to work before Uncle Sam says I can retire, so I don't think the small stunt in growth that might happen now will affect my retirement that much. I plan on going by the shop this evening to see how long it will be before they can start on it.

I have been looking around for others to do the job, but I don't have a good feeling about any of them.

Thanks for your and everyone else's comments, Ron.

I think you have thought it out well Ron. The stock market is sucking wind right now. Chances are VERY good that you will not earn 8% in your 401(k) fund over at least the next year or two. You can't even get 8% from bonds these days.

One thing you should think about is how secure your job is. If you move or are let go, the loan comes due and you have to pay it back. If you don't, the loan balance at that point becomes a taxable distribution subject to the regular tax rate plus a 10% penalty for early withdrawal.

Thanks for the reply, gheatly. That is the same thing that Vanguard told me when I asked about the loan. I've been at my job at Sea Ray for 15 years and feel like it is pretty secure even though our business is down right now (like many others).

The owner of the shop was not there yesterday, but I did get to talk to one of the guys that worked there. He did'nt think it would be a good idea to install the vintage air now, since it will have to come back out anyway. After talking to him, I found out that I'm going to have to take out the side windows & regulators, all the car's wiring, and everything behind the dash, because they are going to have the top, dash, and doors blasted. I'm going to see if they will do the body and paint work from the doors back, and let me take the car. Then I'll put in the A/C and maybe some other things and take it back to let them finish the front end. I don't want to be laying all over those newly paint fenders trying to get the A/C hooked up. Thanks, Ron

Ron here's my story.When it came time for body and paint on my Camaro I talked to a lot of people and it was a nightmare. First the painters I meet were a strange breed they'll tell you what you want to hear and point out everything wrong on your car (one guy wanted to cut off the roof !!)and they can fix it and give you a show paint job. The first guy told me this so I asked "do you have a shop ?" no he said he works on his driveway, so my car will be sitting on his driveway until he's done, NO WAY. Next one gives show paint jobs ($$$) and has a shop but if someone comes in flashing cash your car goes on the back burner with 2 or 3 others (my boss's truck was in a shop for over a year and he never touched it ). Next I would go and talk to people with nice paint jobs on there cars and ask them "are you happy with the job ?" I would say 8 out of 10 would say no that he missed a spot or this and that and if you try to get the guy to fix it good luck from what I've been told a small mess turns into a big mess. So if I pay big bucks for a paint job I'm going to go over that baby with a fine tooth comb and I'll find something wrong and be really pissed. What I did was do the job myself, I got some body tools and bought a paint gun (HVLP) and my local paint shop was very helpful in every step of the way . I ended up doing all the bodywork (tough and dirty) then painting the car with a base coat clear coat paint job (not that tough) and color sanded it then buffed it out. I took the car back to the paint shop when it was done and he smiled and said that it looks great. Of course there was some guy there (mister know it all) that looked and was impressed with the outcome but when I pointed out a oops (flaw) he goes "missed a spot rookie" but he didn't see it until I showed it to him !!(screw him, why are those guys always around ?). So for about a $1,000 bucks (paint,gun,materials) I'm very happy with the outcome and if I see a oops I look in the mirror and say "you missed a spot" no big thing. Good Luck with your car.

Thanks, Rich69RS/SS. That sounds like a good idea to save some money, but since I need such extensive sheet metal work, (quarters, tail, and floor pans) I'm going to have to get someone else to do the job. I've never tried anything like that, and I don't want to learn on my car. After I got done screwing it up, I'd still have to pay someone else ! I'm glad it worked out well for you though ! Thanks, Ron.