i have a 69 ss..i am 19 and it is my current driver and has been for 3 years since restoration...i purchased a spare subframe to do a better combo on and i am about to start. i am in no hurry b/c the car is still driving fine with the existing frame...this is what i am planning to do and would liek to get your opinions....the car will probalby never see a track except for an ocasional stip. but only like 3 times a year. i am just looking for a good handling suspension package for all around use and fun. i however am not gearing this build towards a drag racing car....

stock subframe, either dse or afx steering box(cant decide), hotckis tvs kit, energy suspension bushing kit, aftermarket upper control arms, maybe bmr due to price but not sure if i want to spend alot of cash since it wont see an road course. i would like to know what are some good springs to use, right now i am using the cheap gabriel ones form autozone. how is this setup going to handle on the street. any feedback would be awesome. how do you liek your combo if it is liek this one

come on guys i know some of yall have a set up similar to this

importkiller69ss Is this the TVS kit your talking about? http://www.hotchkis.net/cgi-bin/EDCstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=80015 If so it includes springs.
I have the Hotchkis front springs, 1 1/8" Hellwig solid sway bar, stock upper and lower arms with poly bushings, KYB Gas-a-Just shocks, AGR 12-1 steering box. I've been running this set up for about a year and I love the way my car handles. There is no noticeable body roll into the corners. Even when I brake on the off ramp I can't since that it has any major diving issues. I had thought about new upper and lower A-arms at the time and I may still put them on later, but I'm really not going for the whole pro touring thing. I just what my car to handle well. And it does except for the little 195/70's on the front that can't hold the car too far into the corner at 50+ mph. Out back It's pretty basic. KYB Gas-a-just shocks, mono-leaf springs, poly bushings, sub frame connectors, and a set of traction bars.

importkiller
your setup sounds good, i would concider the guldstrand mod
http://www.pozziracing.com/first_gen_suspension_geome.htm#Re-located%20upper%20mount

you might also consider installing solid body mount bushings and subframe connectors

i do have subframe connector already on the car they are comp engin...i am interested in the guildstrand mod but i am kinda scared to do it since i have little experience in this

i was 19 when i got my 67. after 5 years i thought i'd be farther a long...

anyway. if i had a second subframe and no time frame, i'd start investing into corvette suspension parts and figuring out how to get corvette geometry on a camaro.

but with bolt on stuff, i'm a fan of SC&Cs Street-Comp Stage 2 package. best bang for the buck.
good luck with your project

You should look into Air Suspension if your looking for a better ride quality and performance!

well i am kinda on a tight budget since i am in college and all

You should look into Air Suspension if your looking for a better ride quality and performance!

noooooo, dont do air bags
well thats just my opinion, i wouldnt put them on my firebird or camaro

and for the guldstrand mod, i have not done it but it just looks like you need to follow the template and drill 2 new holes on each side
if it were me i would try it (and im not much older just 22 and in college)

Why not an air suspension?

well one good reason, is that as you lower the car to lower the center of gravity (a good thing to make the car handle better) the spring rate decreases (a bad thing) as you let more air out of the system

another is that most of the time you cant run shocks up front with the bags, this may have changed, i dont keep up on this stuff

and if you want to have side to side adjustments, you cant have sway bars

not to mention that you need a pump, air tanks, lines, valves which add a lot of weight and the increased load on your electrical system

and that if you are driving on the freeway and blow a line, bag, or some how lost pressure, your car would be dragging on the ground and you probably just hit something, or just caused major damage, if the car didnt roll, or you got lucky and it was a rear bag that lost pressure, and it would be no where near as bad

but again its just my opinion that air bags are not handling performance
and i am not saying that its a bad ride, they can be very comfortable
and i have heard the test where some company tested their air suspension against some other suspensions and it out performed them, but i believe what i believe

oh i almost forgot the price is another downside in my book

importkiller69ss
Do you have access to a welder? How mechanically inclined are you? :o (not trying to put you on the spot) If your looking to make your car handle the best it can then do the "mod". If you just want a good handling first gen then in my opinion you don't need it. The mod does allot of great things for handling and front end geometry, but you don't have to do it just to have a good handling camaro. The mod isn't extremely hard but it does require precise measuring and good welding ability.

my dad is a great welder and i have acces to a guy who builds hot rods at a local shop so that would be no problem as long as we know what to do

Then do it you won't be sorry!

how can i get some detailed info on it

Go here and read this.
http://www.pozziracing.com/first_gen_suspension_geome.htm#Re-located%20upper%20mount
http://www.pozziracing.com/first_gen_suspension_geome.htm#Geometry%20discussi on
Right click on the template and print it out. Just make sure you print it out the correct scale. If this doesn't get your head spinning you'll be OK. :thumbsup:

humm i wouldhave to show this to someone who might understand it better b/c i cant follow the templete

Sorry, I should have mentioned this, but there's 2 ways to do the mod.
"Plan A" Use the template you saw as a reference mark and drill new holes. Then cut the top of the upper mount of for travel clearance. Easier to do but looks hacked to me.
"Plan B" Cut the mount off completely. Then chop it down to the correct height and weld it back in the proper place.
The second option takes more skill, but in my opinion looks better and is generally stronger. (provided you a proficient welder) But like you said your dad can help out there.

what do you mean when you say upper mount..i guess i may sound dumb but im a little lost

Here this may help.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c87/HarleyD67/Smilies/25175736.jpg
Picture courtesy of rodek (http://www.camaros.net/forums/member.php?u=21291) http://www.camaros.net/forums/olp/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif.

You didn't mention your brake & wheel size wants, but starting from scratch, I think I would seriously consider the new ATS spindles, seem to a great all round solution.
http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6650&highlight=AFX+spindle
Allows you to keep stock control arms, no Guldstrand mod required and bolt up C5 brake solution.

400Bird,

I really think you should look into the air suspension a little more. I think alot has changed over the years!

http://www.ridetech.com/faq.asp

The price for a set of air springs is usually not in a college students budget. For the cost of a Shockwave setup a complete front suspension rebuild can be done including an adjustable ride height setup (aka Landrum or ATS spring height adjusters.)

Thought they are superb, the ATS spindles may again be a bit spendy for a student budget.

However, the Guldstrand mod costs nothing except for a few hours work.

check this out

P-S-T Performance Suspension Technology http://www.p-s-t.com/gm/gmcatalog.html

High Performance Polygraphite® Front End Kit • G-Max Sway Bars (Hotchkis GM Sway Bar Sets)

I used stock GM springs and 2" Superior Drop Spindles w/KYB gas adjust shocks.... Car sits nice and should handle like a beast!!

stock subframe, either dse or afx steering box(cant decide), hotckis tvs kit, energy suspension bushing kit, aftermarket upper control arms, maybe bmr due to price but not sure if i want to spend alot of cash since it wont see an road course.

Budget front end rebuilds have been discussed extensively here, on Pro-touring.com and lateral-g.net. You might do searches to see what has been discussed in those threads.

For a street performance rebuild, there is no need for aftermarket upper (or lower) control arms (they do little to affect handling) or a rear sway bar (not needed with aftermarket rear leaf springs). I would not use the Energy Suspension bushing kit, but rather DSE or Global West delrin/del-alum bushings. They will be quieter.

I would rebuild the stock subframe with the Guldstrand modification, fast ratio steering box you're planning, 13" LS1 brakes (can be done for $500 or so with brake mounting adapters and Ebay'd used calipers), Delrin or Delalum UCA and LCA bushings, a good front sway bar (I like the Hotchkis hollow front sway bar), rebuilt steering linkage, new shocks and springs and solid subframe to body bushings. I would also get a set of wheels that would accept low profile 17" tires. C4 or C5 wheels work well, are cheap and easily adapted with (carefully chosen) bolt-on wheel spacers.

I've got this setup on my '68 and it handles extremely well on our local mountain roads.

easily adapted with (carefully chosen) bolt-on wheel spacers.


Can you elaborate on what wheel spacers you've seen? I've seen very few spacer options out there, mostly bolt-on off-road stuff or those cheapo Mr. Gasket aluminum ones.

Can you elaborate on what wheel spacers you've seen? I've seen very few spacer options out there, mostly bolt-on off-road stuff or those cheapo Mr. Gasket aluminum ones.


These guys can make spacers in any thickness you need, from any bolt pattern to any bolt pattern, with whatever threads you want for the wheel mount, for a reasonable amount. http://www.motorsport-tech.com/ They are what I'm using on my car and have given me no trouble at all. There are other places that do this as well.

A word of caution though, very few chain tire stores, alignment places etc. will work on a car with spacers. Not a problem for most of us, but thought I'd mention it.

400Bird,

I really think you should look into the air suspension a little more. I think alot has changed over the years!

http://www.ridetech.com/faq.asp

well i dont know what that was supposed to show me, i read the whole thing
and i am only 22, so not a lot has changed over the years

edit: ok well i did a little searching on the page and they do have airbags for the front that have the shocks built in, so they are getting better

http://www.ridetech.com/productinfo/cat04images/skw1010install.jpg
look at this pic, and from memory (without the car in front of me) but my car doent have this cut out in the subframe to make room for an airbag

well i have the eagle series 212's 16x8 i really wouldlike to know more on some ls1brakes and wehre to find them cheap

well i have the eagle series 212's 16x8 i really wouldlike to know more on some ls1brakes and wehre to find them cheap

You may have issues fitting those wheels over the LS1 rotors.

That said, you can get adapters that will allow you to bolt LS1 brake "abutments" (the braket that holds the aluminum caliper to the adapter or the spindle in a Corvtte or Camaro that used LS1 brakes) to either a disk or drum first generation spindle here: http://www.speedtech-performance.com/us%20high/67-69%20Camaro/67-69%20Camaro%20Brakes/67-69%20camaro%20brakes.htm

Calipers, abutments and rotors can be purchased (from time-to-time) from Ebay, the Recycler, Craig's list, pro-touring.com, lateral-g.net or this site. Rotors, if they need to be replaced, can be purchased from Kragen, Autozone, etc. You can use Earl's braided steel brake lines for your year Camaro (I used '68's) to plumb the calipers to the car. I used an S10 master cylinder (see David Pozzi's site) and a Summit Racing proportioning valve. You'll also need to have your hubs tuned down a bit to fit inside the LS1 rotors and (maybe) faced to be square with the spindle.

If you do a lot of reading on this site and the other two I've mentioned, you can learn a great deal about these cars and how to modify them inexpensively. I would stongly recommend you do so before spending any of your limited funds.

i think that the 13" LS1 brakes your talking about are the same ones that baer uses

if they are, Baer should be able to help you with wheel fitment
but you might want to tell them that you are interested in thier brakes (so you can get their help)

and i got the 13" baer in my 16" TT2 rims, just has to remove a little of the caliper to clear

so all i would have to do is buy a braket to use the corvette brakes so that they could mount to my spindles. and then purchase the calibers and rotors..i jsut installed a power booster and master cylinder form napa and got a proportioning valves off a later model camaro i think second or third gen...would this work..how much are we talking about to do the brake swap...

also how much is a subframe worth ..when i pull the frame off my car the replace it with the one that is built i will be looking to sell it with any of the parts i do not use?

i was contemplating b/w the agr box the dse box and the afx box.. i originally was going with the unisteet rack but since the price was so steep i decided to go with a box. supposedly the dse box feels like one..but since my car is all street and a little play. would spending 600 on a box really do me that much justice reather than the agr for 350.....any comments..

I don't want to cop a Corner-Carvers attitude but, again, I urge you to use the search function. You will find relatively few people who have actually driven cars with the three steering boxes you're considering. The chances of any of them responding to THIS thread (which is about front suspensions, not the differences between steering boxes) are not good, but more than likely they've responded in the past. Please search or, if you must, start a new thread.

i searched a few times but most of them just said they all liked them. but my bet would be that they arent on a tight budget like mine.....ill try again

i think all those steering boxes are very similar, and $600 for a steering box, just seems like over kill for a street car
if you ask around ill bet most of us are running just a regular 3rd gen box, thats what i have and for a street use it is very well suited

yeah i was thinking the agr for the price...the guldstrand mod is starting to make sense to me i think..hotchkis coils good shocks hotchkis sway bar front and rear notchkis springs subframe connectors and all new front end components ...sounds like a good setup to me

importkiller69ss
Like I said in an early post I'm running the AGR-292117 box. Save your money! For what your looking to do with your car I think you'll be very happy with the AGR box. You can go cheaper with a 3rd gen box. Keep in mind though you do take the chance of it needing to be rebuilt and you still have an old part that needs to be cleaned up. Again from what you've been saying unless your swapping in tubular a-arms for maximum tire clearance the stock arms can still handle very well. Plus you can always swap them out later. As far as big brakes take a look at these.
http://www.camaros.net/techref/articles/ftecref012.html
http://www.touring-classics.com/C5%20kit.htm

sofor that setup of brakes it would run me about 800 or so dollers and get eh drum spindles

sofor that setup of brakes it would run me about 800 or so dollers and get eh drum spindles
Yes and if you have drum brakes now all you have to do is send the hubs down to them. Ah lets see a Baer track kit for how much.:clonk:

welli would have to buy the spindles i have front disk but the funny thing is that i just sold a set of chevelle drum spindles haha i had them off my old 70 chevelle i didnt theink i owuld ned them dang i sent you a pm

From what I'm reading do you have just the disc brake spindles or the whole front set up? http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c87/HarleyD67/Smilies/thinking.gif

i am running factory disks with power boster....and 2 gen camaro prop valve with rear drums

Check the PM I sent you for the reason why.

Factory discs aren't bad at all if you have good pads. You would have to do a bunch of laps on a road course to make them fade, if you drove a bit more carefully they would hold up even on a track day. What I'm trying to say is, for street use, stock discs will work OK, maybe spend your money on other things for now. Aftermarket discs can have their teething problems and getting them to balance out and have a good feel is not allways a simple thing.

For guys on a budget, a setup of stock rubber bushings, solid subframe mounts, coil springs from Moog of the rates on my web page, a larger front antiroll bar, Get good rear leaf's from Hotchkis or Global West, Bilstein or QA1 shocks and the alignment from my page will set you up.

A step up would be Hyperco or other "circle track" coils 5" id X 9.5" tall with a stock car "hidden" threaded adjuster on top of it. CarlC did this, see his web site for good mods.
Use Delrin A arm Bushings on stock arms, cut off the top A arm mount and move it 3/4" to the rear for more caster with stock arms.

yeah i am planning on doing the g-mod it confused me at first but i think i see hoe to do it now...i hope....are the hotchkis drop coils a bad idea...i already have the rear leafs and plan on getting the agr box

We have the AGR box on my wife's 73 Camaro and it's got great feel, just over 2 turns lock to lock, bolts in, hoses fit, nice aluminum parts stronger than stock, no mods to make fit if your car had PS to start with.

yes it does have power steering

seems liek a good deal and with the agr box i would have money to put else where

That SSBC is a step up, but David is right about the stock brakes. It just all depends on what you want on your car and how you want it to perform.
David May disagree with me but I like the way my Hotchkis springs dropped my car,and the way it handles so much better.:thumbsup:

yeah i have no prblem with the stock front brakes..the rears are the ones that suck but i do liek the look of the performance brakes and i hear they are better..but for a daily driver in college ...hummm ...expensive

For now though if I where in your shoes I would use the stock fronts and upgrade the rear to disc. I think you'll see a more noticable difference than just going BIG in the front and leaving the drums in the rear.

i was figuring that also but i know the rears will be really expensive..and i have no idea where to get them from

Actually a stock rear disk det up will probably be cheaper than upgrading the fronts. But you do need to pull the axles to do it. What are you running for a rear?

Take a look at this from www.rickscamaros.com (http://www.rickscamaros.com)



http://www.camaros.net/online-store/scstore/images/spacer.gif SSB-3 (http://www.camaros.net/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/smpagegen.exe?U+scstore+byzs3080ff492849+-p+-c+scstore.cfg+SSB-3)68 9 Rear Disc Brake Conversion Kit (http://www.camaros.net/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/smpagegen.exe?U+scstore+byzs3080ff492849+-p+-c+scstore.cfg+SSB-3)
Adapts high quality gold anodized brake calipers to 10 or 12 bolt Camaro rear ends. Includes calipers, brackets, pads, rotors, brake hoses, lines, hardware and instructions. Note: Calipers supplied will generally not allow use of stock Rally rims without spacers. Note: not technically correct. **UPS Overweight** Ships directly from manufacturer, usually within 48 hours of order. Not eligible for Volume Discounts. More (http://www.camaros.net/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/smpagegen.exe?U+scstore+byzs3080ff492849+-p+-c+scstore.cfg+SSB-3)

Our Price:
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http://www.camaros.net/online-store/scstore/images/spacer.gif TGR-1 (http://www.camaros.net/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/smpagegen.exe?U+scstore+byzs3080ff492849+-p+-c+scstore.cfg+TGR-1)Turbo Gas Slotted Rotor Upgrade Pair (http://www.camaros.net/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/smpagegen.exe?U+scstore+byzs3080ff492849+-p+-c+scstore.cfg+TGR-1)
With performance pads. Looks great with new open wheel designs. Enhances performances in improved wet braking, reduced dusting and brake fade. Available as an upgrade option for our disc brake conversion kits. More (http://www.camaros.net/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/smpagegen.exe?U+scstore+byzs3080ff492849+-p+-c+scstore.cfg+TGR-1)

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i am running posi rear with 3.26 on a 12 bolt where did you find that kit at

I was editing to add the web site when you posted that ?. The server was busy and wouldn't let me repost.:angry:

oopps posted it twice

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-C5-C6-Big-Brake-Conversion-Chevelle-Camaro-TS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33564QQitemZ80287852 68QQrdZ1
is this the bracket you are refering too

There are other companies that sell it too.
http://www.drclassic.com/index.html (http://www.drclassic.com/index.html)
http://www.classicindustries.com/ (http://www.classicindustries.com/)
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?cat=8 (http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?cat=8)
http://www.paddockparts.com/Paddock/assets/html/homepage.asp?URLCheck=1 (http://www.paddockparts.com/Paddock/assets/html/homepage.asp?URLCheck=1)
http://www.npdlink.com/ (http://www.npdlink.com/)
Shop around see who has the best deals. Also I believe one of these companies has a warehouse down your way. It would save you sipping on a pretty heavy kit. The set up from Rick's that I posted is a nice step up on the pads, and should be enough to make you happy with the way your car will stop. Especially for allot less effort and $$.
The only thing is it won't work with c-clip eliminators. :mad:

what are c-clip eliminators?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-C5-C6-Big-Brake-Conversion-Chevelle-Camaro-TS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33564QQitemZ80287852 68QQrdZ1
is this the bracket you are refering too
NO that's for the Chevelle brake kit, but they may make one for Camaro. Although from the sound of it you should have access to everything you need to make them yourself. Making the brackets is the easy part tracking down all the parts and making them fit is the tedious part. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c87/HarleyD67/Smilies/noswet.gif

where do i find the templet to make it and what do i make it out of

what are c-clip eliminators?
Go to Summit and look up this # STR-A1033 . If you don't know what they are you probably don't have them. And in your case you don't really need them and I wouldn't suggest putting them on. (they wont allow you to use the stock rear disc set up)

if you could just steer me in the right direction of all the parts included on the front and the templete to make the bracket and what to make it out of that would be great..

where do i find the templet to make it and what do i make it out of
Go here and scroll all the way to the bottom of the page. http://www.pozziracing.com/12_corvette_brakes_on_fgen.htm
Keep in mind you will still need to turn down your hubs to fit the vette rotor.