My thoughts on the new Camaro concept.

I was lucky enough to be one of the 250 to be invited by Scott Settlemire to see the new Camaro concept debut at the Detroit auto show. The whole weekend was a treat and I really want to thank Scott and the folks at Chevrolet for doing what they did. The night before the auto show we had a gathering at the GM Heritage center and most of the team that put the new Camaro together was there. They said they would listen to our comments and wanted to hear them so here I am.
While the new Camaro is neat and I think neater than the 4th gen it replaced, it is not what I was hoping for. I can remember talking with friends years ago about how cool it would be and how many cars Chevy would sell if they made the 69 Camaro again. We knew it was pipe dreaming but it sure was neat to think about. I never expected it to happen. Then comes along the new Mustang and it looks very much like a 67 Mustang. Then there are rumors of a retro Camaro and I'm pumped. Then there is a retro Hemi Challenger and it appears we are back in our youth. This is getting exciting. I will buy a new 69 Camaro. I'll buy 2 ! How many people are out there that would jump at the chance to buy a new 69 Camaro ? How many out there that like the old 69 Camaro's but don't buy one because they can't work on cars and old cars need to be worked on ? Would they buy a 69 Camaro with a warranty ? With the other makes doing the retro theme this is the perfect time and probably our only chance to do a 69 type Camaro. The market is there. There is worry that retro is not long legged enough to pencil out for the bean counters. The 69 Camaro is over 35 years old and the design still looks great. A new version of it can look just as great. I'm 52 years old and I want one. I have met many younger than me that also love the looks of a 69 Camaro. It's like we are invited to a retro party with Ford and Chrysler but have decided not to come. I know the retro T-bird didn't do well but guys like me were about 4 years old when they first came out. The guy that missed out on buying a 57 T-bird back in 57 is now probably close to 70 years old so I wouldn't expect him to buy too many cars of his youth. I missed the chance to buy a Camaro in 69 and would sure like another chance .I don't think there will ever be another chance like right now to capture the audience that is out there waiting You have a chance to capture the youth market and the baby boomers at the same time. Maybe I'm just in the minority and don't know it. GM really does want and need to know what the public will buy so they can decide on what to build. You may or may not agree with me on wanting the new Camaro to look more retro like a 69. Whatever it is you prefer please let Chevrolet know. If you don't voice your opinion don't bitch later on if they didn't do what you wanted.
-Charley

I agree with you 100%..when I heard the gentleman from GM on the podcast make reference to how the other two of the big three went too far by making thier cars look too much like the old cars I couldn't believe it ! Someone must be putting something in his coolaid...I am not a Ford guy...but I came real close to buying a new Mustang ...I think the new Challenger looks more like a Camaro than..... the Camaro ! This should have been easy for them from a design standpoint. It is a cool car and I do like it....but name it something else and lets get on with building the Camaro everyone wants.
And as far as the T-Bird..some designs stand the test of time longer than others...the 1st gen Camaro, in what ever flavor you like..67 , 68 or 69 stands the test of time...it will always be in style.

I finally found a "new camaro" thread that I belong in. I couldn't agree more with the first 2 posts.
The new Camaro comes as a disappointment to me. I honestly expected to see in the Camaro what we saw in the new Mustang and the new Challenger.
To me it resembles a compact Corvette. What were they thinking?

I also agree with all three of you guys...thats all i have to say...

I posted my two cents worth on the chevy concept camaro forums, I think the car looks like my daughters 2000 mustang! But how do we get our message to GM?

I bought a 2004 Impala SS with the Indy package, 3.8 V6 motor. I should have waited a year, and missed out on the V8 models. Well the Camaro had better be something very special before I get sucked in on another new car. I am not complaining about my car, but GM seems to not be a mover or shaker like Chrysler with the Hemi in everything. These guys are just in your face with design and the unusual looking cars. That new Challenger has me more interested than the Camaro from what I have seen on these forums. How does GM decide on a design, Dartboard, Voodo, spin the bottle, or one very out of touch CEO? I am thrilled they are talking about doing Camaros again, but get it right so we dont have to go to the DARK SIDE. I also would like my voice heard with GM but how? Oh yeah, if the Camaro comes out to be one hot and bad car, the wife gets the Impala, the Monte Carlo LSX stage III will get canned, and yours truly will have the most heavily optioned car available, just like you wish you could go back in time to do with a 69!

My guess would be that if GM builds a new Camaro, it will share a platform with some other style. That might limit the options they have for a more retro look. To do a stand alone project that would sell 200,000 to 300,000 units per year would be cost prohibitive. Having said that, I wish I could buy a new "69" as well. I just don't think I'll have the opportunity.

I agree with you guys its a nice car but I wont be getting in line to buy one.IMO GM needs to get a little more retro with the car.Its nice, just not for me.

Ditto here!! I just think GM is stradling the fence here and trying to appeal to the masses with some retro and some modern, which will in turn only appeal to a few. The new Camaro just didn't catch my eye and still don't. I mean if your going to do it, do it right!!!

The Dodge Challenger was done right, and I'm not at all a Dodge man by any means!! I know the Mustang looks good and Ford did a great job going retro but I believe the Challenger is going to really sell some cars! I think there will be people buying Challengers who would rather have a new REAL Camaro!

GM has a chance to do a 40 year aniversary car and build a modern mirror image of the '69 which would easily pay for itself, even if it was for just one year again! If anyone knows how to contact the people who want to hear our opinions, please let us know???? I don't mean a email to GM that will get the pre-drafted "thanks for you opinion, it's very important to us" BS.

I also agree with you guys, build a modern 69!
The current concept car looks like a cross between a mustang, chrysler, caddy something. I will not buy one.

GM, you have a great chance here, don't blow it.
Do it right or not at all.

I also heard him say in his podcast that GM needs to Sell between 125K and 150K cars to make the numbers work. If they would design it more like the 69 body style, I see no reason the couldnt sell more, They did sell 243K 36 years ago.
I know there are more car manufactures and body styles but now,but if the car (new Camaro) would have had that "WOW" factor like the Mustang and the Challenger did I bet the acception would be better. I am with most that have posted already, Im not to excited about the concept car.
My thoughts are there are too many people in GM that like to drive Cadillacs and I think thats were there mind sets are...

I like the way the car looks even if it's not as retro as we would all like. But I like the Mustang and Challenger as well so maybe I don't count. We also have to keep in mind how many years GM needs to get out of a generation run before they gear up again for the next. Too much retro may not have the longivity that they would need. I have heard several people (not "car" people) at the office remarking on how cool they thought the new Camaro looked. Wheter they'd all run out and buy one, I don't know.

Charlie, I knew you were in Detroit and was very curious what your thought were on it! A few of our club members were there as well (Thanks again to Scott Settlemire!) Now that I have seen different colors on the car, different angles, potential numbers etc, I am ready to buy it! It is NOT as "retro" as many would like...but it isn't in production yet either. I think they did a fantastic job for a first try! When the Mustang prototype first came out, there were many mixed opinions on it. Not everyone loved it upon first glance. Once they started making them and we all saw them on the road and up close, that's when it gained its popularity (imho) The Camaro will probably get a few refinements, then go into production. As we start seeing them on the road, I think it will gain the popularity it deserves.;)

Dano:beers:

I have a 68 Rs a 72Rs and a 97 Camaro and could not wait for the new design. I was totally disappointed. GM missed it bad. I hate to say it but when the new Challenger becomes avaliable i will be a sad owner of a Dodge. That hurts. Sorry GM.

Just rec'd this email from Hemming Motor News:

Camaro, Challenger unveiled in Detroit

Chevrolet showed off this Camaro concept at the Detroit Auto Show while Dodge rolled out its Challenger concept photo courtesy GM
It’s 1970 all over again as two of the Big Three introduced retro-styled concepts of the Dodge Challenger and Chevrolet Camaro at the Detroit Auto Show. The Camaro also was introduced in Los Angeles, but because it was not a running car, it did not have much of an audience.
The Challenger is practically a twin to the 1970 model, while the proposed Camaro has strong styling cues from the most popular Camaro of all-time—the 1969 model— particularly at the rear and the quarter panels, which feature the three simulated vents, which were standard on ’69 Camaros. Optional in 1969 was RPO Z21—simulated vent louver trim, which was chrome plated with black accents and secured to the quarter panel with sheet metal speed nuts from inside the panel. No word yet on whether GM will make that available.
What we do know is the concept car is powered by a 400hp LS2 V-8, the same engine which is standard in the 2006 Corvette. The power will be transferred through a Tremec six-speed manual transmission. The new Camaro has many curves and lines and looks to be a winner. But put aside some cash each month for tires as the concept was shod with 21-inchers in the front and 22-inchers out back.
The Challenger has been plastered throughout numerous publications and word is the car will be powered by (what else?) a Hemi—most likely the 6.1 version with 425hp. We can only hope gasoline prices stay where they are, or better yet drop. There is no doubt if DaimlerChrysler and GM build cars that look like these concepts, they will have both hit home runs.
- By George Mattar

My humble opinion - I don't like it. I was hoping for more of a retro look. Something more distinctive to the 67-69 Camaro lines. My take from the pictures (not in real life - it may be different) is that from 20 feet it'd be hard to tell it from most other newer cars.

The Challenger is right on target. You will KNOW what that is when you see one, even from 20 feet away. Much the same with the Mustang.

As a concept car, the Camaro is fine. Lets hope from this point, the design group listens to the true camaro lover. The general shape and bodyline is retro 69. The lines need to be softened and more rounded. The grill needs to resemble the 69 a bit more than it does and the lower valance needs the lighting moved inboard like a 69. The few pictures I saw of the rear just scream vette. I say hand the concept car to Foose and let him have some fun with it.

Well...I guess you can't make everyone happy. If you don't like the new Camaro and choose not to buy one...someone from a different demographic will replace you. This car is not being being built for Camaro purists or "current" Camaro owners who ONLY like the '69 Camaro. The auto industry is a "global" game now. The car has to speak to everyone...not just a few. And yes...I hate to tell you this, but you are "a few". It's not just about Mustang and Challenger (quit thinking this is the Muscle Car Wars reborn...it's not) but also anything comparable from BMW, Volvo, Volkswagon, Toyota, Honda, Infiniti, Lexus, Mazda, etc...etc...etc. It's not two other fighters in the ring anymore. This is a full blown basketball game we're involved in.

Hey I think the Challenger concept looks great. But I'd temper your bold predictions a bit if I were you. Let's not forget the Challanger's legacy; 9 years of production with only one popular model and some forgettable 4 banger offerings in the 1980's. At the end of the day Camaro is the more "storied" of the two cars with a 35 year legacy in it's back pocket. More people own them because they were in production longer, so most people can identify with them. There's a history there. But hey...best of luck to Chrysler, I hope it does well for them. Like I said, I think the concept looks kick butt. But we have a plan for the future and beyond with our car. I wouldn't go jumping off the wagon just yet.

Well...I guess you can't make everyone happy. If you don't like the new Camaro and choose not to buy one...someone from a different demographic will replace you. This car is not being being built for Camaro purists or "current" Camaro owners who ONLY like the '69 Camaro. The auto industry is a "global" game now. The car has to speak to everyone...not just a few. And yes...I hate to tell you this, but you are "a few". It's not just about Mustang and Challenger (quit thinking this is the Muscle Car Wars reborn...it's not) but also anything comparable from BMW, Volvo, Volkswagon, Toyota, Honda, Infiniti, Lexus, Mazda, etc...etc...etc. It's not two other fighters in the ring anymore. This is a full blown basketball game we're involved in.


I'm with Infamous on this one except it's probably more of a mosh pit :D instead of Basketball. We already have a 69 camaro. I want an 09 that has suttle cues to it's heritage but I want it to stand on its own as an up-to-date if not forward looking model. I think GM did alright. I'll be buying one. Might even talk a girlfriend into another one. She is tired of her mustang :) I have other friends who are not into Camaros and make real good money and they really like the Camaro. They think retro is over done already. Of course they are relatively younger than most of typical posters on these B boards. Hopefully GM will market the car unlike the 4th gen which IMO had slow sales partly due to no real advertising. I 'd like to see them as rentals for sure ;)

Well...I guess you can't make everyone happy. If you don't like the new Camaro and choose not to buy one...someone from a different demographic will replace you.

It's not just about Mustang and Challenger (quit thinking this is the Muscle Car Wars reborn...it's not)

Infamous, with all due respect, it's exactly that kind of thinking that has put GM in jeopardy, and has alienated them from some of their most loyal "demographics". Why do they think they know better what the people want than the people themselves?

The 69 Camaro is arguably the most popular musclecar in history, and I think Chevy could really use that fact to their advantage. Longevity.....Reach? The old Camaros have never lost their appeal or popularity, so I don't buy into the longevity issue. I agree 110% with Charley and the others who believe in a "modern" version of the 69. The new Challenger? As long as the price is in line, you won't be able to get your hands on one for the first year or two at least. The Mustang has been on the market for almost 2 years, and it's still near impossible to find a GT on the dealer lots. I just don't understand the reasoning behind the idea that a true "retro" car is not the way to go. The wave is here, ride it now instead of offering excuses about why it's not a good idea, and how it "won't last". With that kind of mindset, it's never going to start for Chevrolet. As far as demographic, we may not be "everyone" but we're the heart of the Camaro demographic. If Chevy can't or won't cater to their loyalists, they're not long for this game. :(

Well I guess I have an opinion also of the camaro concept. It is a nice looking car but as all of you have said before its not a 68 or 69. Im a 68 rs kinda guy as I think they are the best looking camaros of all. I also dont know what gm is thinking when they try to make a older car look-a-like. maybe they lost all the pics of all cars and trucks they made before the 70's as it seams they are unable to reproduce any. Maybe they need a new designer or something I dont know? I as everyone else has said, think a 68-69 camaro would sell like crazy but I dont think we'll ever know! I also would say that I'm a gm person to heart but as of right now if the challenger rt makes it to the market I might would have to buy one over the camaro. Thats really hard for me to say!!! Where would I go to send a email to gm with a thought about the camaro, does anyone know? thanks signed DISAPPOINTED

Everyone likes to hit a home run when they step up to the plate.

The reviews are mixed both here and on other discussion forums as the Camaro has 35 years of tastes to try and please. It is clearly paying homage to the first gen influence so it's natural for comparisons to be made, and yes, this site does have a lot of guys who are first gen only.

There are also a large number of us who own, or have owned, other years and we may very well be a decent percentage of the future camaro market, either by directly buying, or passing on comments to family and friends that might.

The early release of the photos certainly tainted the preview as it created all kinds of grief. I believe Scott said it best with a comment I read that the "Camaro was not shown in it's best perspective". The buzz turned into a bit of a fizz.

Infamous, we really do appreciate you being here on our site and hope you realize this is a new medium with instant feedback and anything new is always under the spotlight. I have no doubt that a similar result would have taken place when the 2nd, 3rd and 4th gens came out, if online forums existed.

I seen a photoshopped version with stripes and hidden headlights that peaked my interest, so constructive input is rather cool.

Al

DanCamm said exactly what I was thinking.

First, our opinions were asked for....then we are told that it dosen't really matter what we think.

At the live reveal, 1st gens were paraded out, and 35 years of a legacy were heavily drawn upon.

Now we're told that if we don't like it, don't buy it, because we don't represent the "demographic".

Do you really think that the BMW or Lexus crowd cares one iota about those 35 years of history?

There are many of us on this board that could buy any new car we want to, so we should carry some weight in this matter.

What we have here is a failure to communicate... (where have I heard that before?) The problem with forum speak is that a lot of what is said can be taken out of context. When a statement is made in one conversation "We want your input" and then something else is said that is directed to a much smaller group in another conversation "It doesn't matter what you think." it can sound like a real contradiction when it really isn't.

Give Infamous some credit for supporting his employer and the Camaro and this site for that matter. Yes he wants our input both pro and con. And yes too for those that can't provide said input in a constructive mannor, it really doesn't matter. Threats of switching brand loyality and attacks will be weeded out before any of our input is even given consideration.

It amazes me how attacking some can be when saying a simple "I don't like it" and elaborating would get your point across. If you don't like the new Camaro and have presented your views in a respectful manor don't take this as I'm pointing the finger at you. You are also not the audiance Infamous is addressing either when he said "it doesn't matter"

I've read some funny stuff in all this too, one sticks in my mind, something about having to become a "sad dodge owner" as they will just have to buy the challenger instead...

Hey, I know I posted this next bit in another thread but think it got lost in the sea of posts... Check out the pic of the LA car and check out the pic of the pro-touring logo. For those not seeing Camaro in the prototype maybe it will help you understand how GM and others are seeing the retro side of the new car...

http://popularhotrodding.com/hotnews/0601phr_camconcept04_z.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/events/pigeon_forge/pictures/207-0742_IMG.jpg

I like it and I hope I can afford one when they come out. The grill is the only thing that could use some work, to much like a truck grill sitting in there. Nothing the aftermarket can't cure though.

Joe

Dennis, good find. Looking at them like that they both have simularities.

Scott

..when I heard the gentleman from GM on the podcast make reference to how the other two of the big three went too far by making thier cars look too much like the old cars I couldn't believe it !
Bob Lutz was quick to point out that they did NOT want to be retro but then kept going back to the fact that item after item were designed with the 69 in mind. Seemed like there were conflicting opinions in the upper echilons of GM.

I saw a video where the Challenger designers discuss the design. (Sorry, I don't have the url.) The thing that struck me is that they wanted a modern car that had the essence of what the 70 model had. I'm not sure how they said it but basically the new car has to have the right lines so that you know what it is when you see it. That's what dissapointed me about the new Camaro.

The bottom line for me is that I think that Ford and Dodge both had that in mind and got it right and GM did not.

One thing that (in my mind) made the 69 Camaro clearly different than the 67-68 were the square wheel wells. I love all the 60s Camaros, but I personally prefer the rounded 67-68 wheel wells which this concept Camaro has. Something on the front needs to be changed, I haven't figured it out yet. It should not appear too close to Mustang. (mixed feelings.....)

This car looks awesome, IMHO. It does have lines of a 69 Camaro. The overall body is completely different from the last rendition of the Camaro that we had in the past decade up until the last design in 01. The retro look of the Mustang of today is not that good, as a matter of fact it has the same lines as the Mustangs before it. The nose and rear look different ofcourse, but thats about it. The new Camaro has a complete restructure. I can understand the Charger grill causing everyone to want the Camaro grill to look exactly like the 69, with a deeper recessed look and all, but I think Chevy is smart, they are thinking performance and looks at the same time. Hehe. Independent suspension is gonna kick ass! That grill looks angry, I like that! When Mustang owners see that sucker pulling up on em on the highway, they will **** in their pants, because the next thing they will be seeing is the rear end! Hehe, Don't worry too much about the front for that reason, Mustangs, Chargers, and Cuda's will all know the rear end of the Camaro! All it is really missing is a nice retro Z-28, or SS badge, and I think the stripes are really, really important! They need to go with retro colors, like black with white stripes, ( Green with black stripes, like the 70 Z-28), yellow with black stripes etc. The rear should also have a retro Z-28 or SS badge.

Have faith, that car is gonna be a killer! The hemi wasn't **** when the 70 Z-28 came out with the 350 LT-1 hehe! The new hemi isn't **** either, the 400hp small block will kick its ass, and the LS7 will slaughter it. And I think for its return the max performance option package should see the SS with the LS-7, with over 500hp. The camaro will rule the street, and make Vette owners second guess their choice to purchase a Vette when a Camaro SS or a suped up Z-28 blows their doors off! The vette is due for a body change anyways, that hatchback crap needs to go, this Camaro will be a refreshing change, that concept makes the current vette look like ****!

99ZSS

It's not just about Mustang and Challenger (quit thinking this is the Muscle Car Wars reborn...it's not) but also anything comparable from BMW, Volvo, Volkswagon...

Although I agree with you in some respects, I have to say that GM IS clearly trying to compete with the Mustang. Bob Lutz said so in the podcast when talking about the pricing. 20K entry for V6, 30K high side. He specifically mentioned competeing with the 'Mustang' on price.

GM has the Vette and Cadillac to compete against the high end cars. If they build the Camaro, I believe that it will be because GM perceives that there is a market for a lower-cost Muscle Car. You may not want to call it that, but that's what it is never the less. JMHO.

I agree with alot of what is being said here - I made a few posts in Infamous' "OK Fella's...here it is! 2009 Camaro" thread a few days ago, which since there are so many of these threads moving now, I'm not sure if you guys have read or not. Check out post #74 (page 5) and post #93 (page 7). I admit I still feel the same way about this car, even after digesting the various photos of it out there and the many comments for a few days now. The only photo I have seen of this car that I really like is post #123 (page 9) in the same thread - compare that to the photo in post #121 (which is hideous to me) and it's hard to believe we are looking at the same car. I'm trying to figure out why I like the photo in #123 so much - I believe it is because from that angle you do actually see more of the 69 in the car, because the top doesn't look chopped and you only get a hint of the corner of the grille - my mind then imagines that the rest of the grille follows more closely with the 69 and is not so pointed. I don't have to look at the air opening below the cowl induction, and I also don't have to look at the Corvette rear end (I think we have one of those already). We need to remember that this is a concept car. I can only hope that GM listens to the comments here and elsewhere and tweaks it accordingly. This car is not that far off. But in my book it is not OK as is. And for the few of you that may have ties to GM, instead of attempting to pull everyone back to your center, maybe the best thing you could do is actually get these comments in front of them. The market is already there, they just have to decide how they want to participate in it.

I have to say, I have been a die hard GM Camaro fan since day one. We were all hoping for a real retro 69. GM has dropped the ball in a big way. Do not get me wrong, the new Camaro is nice; but it is surely not the Camaro we were all hoping for. Ford has a new Mustang that looks just like the old pony car. Now Dodge has the new Challenger. When you look at these retro cars it is easy to see the cars we all love. When I look at the new Camaro I do not see any influence from our beloved 1st generation Camaro. I had planned on buying the new Camaro, I think I will be at the local Dodge dealer buying a new Challenger unless GM changes their design to look like the 69 Camaro. Wouldn't it be great to buy a brand new 2008 RS/Z28. Dave

Well...I guess you can't make everyone happy. If you don't like the new Camaro and choose not to buy one...someone from a different demographic will replace you. This car is not being being built for Camaro purists or "current" Camaro owners who ONLY like the '69 Camaro. The auto industry is a "global" game now. The car has to speak to everyone...not just a few. And yes...I hate to tell you this, but you are "a few". It's not just about Mustang and Challenger (quit thinking this is the Muscle Car Wars reborn...it's not) but also anything comparable from BMW, Volvo, Volkswagon, Toyota, Honda, Infiniti, Lexus, Mazda, etc...etc...etc. It's not two other fighters in the ring anymore. This is a full blown basketball game we're involved in.

Hey I think the Challenger concept looks great. But I'd temper your bold predictions a bit if I were you. Let's not forget the Challanger's legacy; 9 years of production with only one popular model and some forgettable 4 banger offerings in the 1980's. At the end of the day Camaro is the more "storied" of the two cars with a 35 year legacy in it's back pocket. More people own them because they were in production longer, so most people can identify with them. There's a history there. But hey...best of luck to Chrysler, I hope it does well for them. Like I said, I think the concept looks kick butt. But we have a plan for the future and beyond with our car. I wouldn't go jumping off the wagon just yet.

Yeah, we all know it's about demographics, why would GM recreate the 69 Camaro when Ford has done so poorly with the new Mustang. I know when I ride by the local Ford dealer they are over loaded with the Mustang. Ha,Ha. Come on, a retro 69 Camaro, GM couldn't fill the orders fast enough.

Well it is supposed to be direct competition for the Mustang in that respect. As the Vette is competition for cars like the Viper, Ford GT and other supercars. But we all know that there is also the Camaro vs. Vette every once in awhile, lol. Basically because the Vette costs more, hehe. The suped up Camaro Z-28 has always been fun to take and blow away Vettes, Porsches and Ferraris. Always fun to beat a car that is more expensive, just to kinda get at the guy that had a fatter wallet. Like how they did in Fast and The Furious part 1, when they smoked the Ferrari with the Supra. LOL, that is a real life type of thing. Thats the performance aspect of it, and the way the cars tie in to the egos of the fans of the particular brands they drive. The manufacturers know that we all have that in our blood, so thats why they are building them again, because for them its money. Chevy wants to compete with Ford by selling more new Camaros then the Mustang. So it looks as if we may see a Muscle Car lineup like, Vette, Viper, Camaro, GTO,Mustang, Challenger R/T, and possibly a Cuda in the future. Personally I will miss the Firebird, it would be interesting to see how they could pull of a new retro Firebird to match the new Camaro body. But perhaps the slow GTO sales will push that to happen. The current GTO doesn't really fit the GTO tag.

99ZSS

Yeah, we all know it's about demographics, why would GM recreate the 69 Camaro when Ford has done so poorly with the new Mustang. I know when I ride by the local Ford dealer they are over loaded with the Mustang. Ha,Ha. Come on, a retro 69 Camaro, GM couldn't fill the orders fast enough.

Oh, and how correct you are. I have NEVER even liked the old mustangs and would not ever think of owning one, but that new one sure caught my eye and got me thinking, and the new DDDDOOGE, can't even say it, that is a sharp look'n ride. GM can't just slap on some Camaro badges and say how great it is and think "build it, and they will buy". The Higher ups need to turn there lights on and see what has been successful in the past for them and what is now succes for the others that's kick'n there butt.

I think somewhere between this car

http://automobilemag.com/auto_shows/naias_2006/0601_chevrolet_camaro_concept/

and this car

http://www.escapedigital.com.uy/media/fotos/tunnig/pages/PHRNewCamaro1.htm

lies the correct rendition.

I also think that if GM pulled back the angle of the inner grille a little on the 09 concept to match the angle on the front top and bottom of the grille opening it would be a much better look. It looks like the grille is currently recessed in 69 style on the ends buts comes to a point in the middle at the very front of the car and the angle is too steep. Bring it back to be the same distance from the top and bottom of the grille opening across the whole grille and I think you have a winner.

Fella's...I in no way meant to sound condescending with my remark about people being replaced. Maybe "replaced" is a bad choice of words...sorry. And no, this does not mean that you "don't matter"...that's not what I was trying to say. I was only outlining the company's thought process that if they do indeed lose some of the old guard, it'll be OK because they'll make up that void by opening the platform up to a new generation of car buyer. They don't WANT to lose you...but there's more money to made with a car that transcends all demographics. Not just the guys with scraped knuckles and black fingernails. That's all I meant. And yes...of course your opinions are important. Remember...that was the other thread that I started, not this one. Sorry if anyone got the wrong message. Tone inflection is such a hard thing to get across when you're typing thoughts.

If I can expand on my earlier comments. I think Charley is right in that if you want a more retro Camaro, you should let your voices be heard. If enough noise is made believe me...they'll listen. However...we're talking about a car that won't see the light of day for another 3 and 1/2 years. A lot changes in just a year in the car business. I'm just trying to say...don't look a gifted horse in the mouth. Saying the car "isn't retro enough" is bordering on nit-picking. I believe (and I'm not being a homer here) that the current direction of the car is the right one. Forward design scheme with retro cues to pay homage to it's heritage...the best of both worlds. Drop in an LS3, 6 speed gearbox, a hand shake from the salesman and I'm off to break a new F-Body's cherry. But you never know...perhaps things will change and the car will become the full blown '69 Camaro replica you've all been jonesin' for.

In the next few years you will be able to drop $25-$30,000 for a brand new Chevrolet sports car that looks great, is fast as hell and says Camaro on it's fenders.

....isn't this all we wanted in the first place?

Why not show both a retro and modern and then guage the publics wishes ? Seems too easy.

Probably because half would say they like the retro version and half would say they like the modern version. Give them something they both can live with and get 2 for the price of one.

But I digress....that would be intersting to see how it plays out.

"Probably because half would say they like the retro version and half would say they like the modern version."

But we will never know if they don't show us.

Infamous
GM needs to get in the game as Ford and Dodge has. Their fast concept to production musclecars sell. The retro theme works and their profits show it.
3 and 1/2 years is to long. GiftedHorse you say.....as a loyal GM customer I have bought 8 new and 2 near new vehicles in the last 10 years from GM. Its time we have more product choices. We would like more rearwheel drive platforms in the passenger cars and true SS options lists to check.
The new Camaro needs to be built. Seems like most people like the retro 69 looks best....but what ever you do get the thing built quick. Give us the lS7 option also. The new Mustang Cobra or what ever it's name is, will have 475 Horses....Give us the LS7 to compete with it.
I have owned all the past 4 generations of F-Bodies and still own a few of the 69 Camaros. It is pretty embasrassing when I get around other brand enthusiast.... and we have nothing new to bring to the table except for the Vette.

After seeing the unveiling, and reading tons of posts on the new Camaro, I'm beginning to feel that the direction that GM is going with this car is the right way to go.

The car definately has the cues to the first gen cars, which appeals to us "purists", but it defrinately has a "now" look to it also which appeals to the future of the car - the present-younger generation buyers which we hope will be like us "enthusiasts" in the next ten / twenty years from now.

Personally with a few tweeks here and there, I think the car is a slam-dunk home run.

What we don't want to realize is that this is all about making money, and GM really needs to make a money-maker out of this new Camaro.

It has too for it's own survival.

Another t-bird is not what GM needs right now...

Either way, I'm hoping that one day soon, my son's will be able to buy a new Camaro that "kinda-looks" like their dad's 69, but appeals to their tastes also.

That would be cool.........

In this past week, I've done an "unoffocial" kind of poll at work. There's 11 guy's & 1 lady I work with on a daily basis in addition to a few others that come and go, vendors and such. They are a great cross section of the general public, with ages ranging from late 20's to late 50's. Only a couple of them would qualify as a "gearhead".

I have shown all of them the new Camaro & the new Challenger, all the pics available, and the response has been the same everytime. When I would open up the Camaro, there would be little to no reaction. Kinda "just another new car" reaction or yea, that's allright.

When I would open the Challenger, every single time, it caused the "WOW" effect. The dicussion started, they wanted more info like....how fast, engine size, interior etc.... They all said things such as "man Dodge did it right" or "now that's building a car". I would say that about half of them didn't even know who built the Challenger. Three of the 15 or so that I showed it to "said" they would buy the Challenger when it hit the streets! One guy thought they were already out and wanted to go drive one.

My thought is this....the current Camaro concept would be an awesome 5th gen car IF the competition wasn't going retro. But the compitition IS going retro and GM has an opportunity to get in the game with the most popular muscle cars ever, if they don't blow it. I just don't believe this is a time to straddle the fence!! Muscle cars are hot, so cash in on it! I believe the Camaro should stand out as much as a first gen does when you see it on the streets now! I don't mean build a clone of the '69, but a "new" version of the first gen, (pulling from all 3 years) leaving no doubt what kind of car it is!

I hope this is taken as contsructive because that's how it is meant. I want the new Camaro to be a success as much as anyone as I think everyone here does. I hope there's a way to get these opinions to GM, and they take heed. I mean, when a poll on a very biased site like this shows 70% favoring the Challenger.....that should speak very loudly!!!

Every time I drive one of my 69 Camaros I get trumbs up and happy comments from little kids to senior citizens.

My neighbor up the road has alot of early 70s challengers, most people will walk right by them and come to the Camaros.

The new concept car poll on this site slow that almost 70% of the people prefer the Challenger. May I remind you this is a Camaro site with all generations of Camaro enthusiast.

Here's Your Sign!!!

What sign? This is a "Camaro" Message Board.

Again...the car isn't being built JUST for Camaro owners.

Guys....I think I've said all that can be said about this concept. There's nothing more I can add. I've read every comment, defended the car and my company by stating what I felt GM's position is, and supported it. It will be up to you to decide what you want to do in a few years when it debuts. If you want it....great, we'd love the business. But if your heart says Mustang or Challanger then so be it. Good luck with your new car and may it bring you many years of happiness and fulfillment.

Infamous

I'm not going to buy a Mustang or Challenger. I will buy the new Camaro in whatever design it comes in. I like the new concept Camaro, with a few tweeks it will appeal to the purist and others. My bigging fears are that the Camaro will not be built in a quick manner and that most of the non Camaro general public will like the new retro Challenger over the Camaro.

I think the new Camaro has to grab the general public like the 1st gen Camaros do. Talking and listening to people of all ages the Challenger concept is doing that. But whatever we do we must get in the game fast. We are already late to the party, but with many Plain Jane to true SS and Z28 option we can lead the pack again. Hint LS7

I'm also glad that you are here to see what we have to say. Lets work together and blow the competition away.

Infamous,
I don't know you, but your attitude on all this really is bothersome, especially considering you are representing yourself as someone who is tied to GM. I am trying to be diplomatic here, but I am wondering if your attitude reflects you or that of 'your company' as you put it. I have also said plenty about how I feel about this car, both in this thread as well as your other one, and many others have done the same. You say you have read everything, yet you are not listening. You come back every time trying to convince everyone why the style needs to be the way it is, instead of listening to the feedback and reporting these comments to GM, which is what you initially said you were going to do. Does that mean 'your company' also is not listening? If that's true, then that's a pretty sad commentary considering the current state of GM. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about - after all, I realize you don't see "Senior Tech" under my ID, but even if your affinity for this car comes from you actually having a hand in designing it, you need to take a couple steps back and realize this is constructive criticism we are offering you, offering 'your company.' Whether or not you agree with my own personal comments on this car is not the issue for me. We all want this car to be successful - we all have a vested interest in it succeeding. GM is playing to a very unique and loyal market with the very introduction of this concept - of course you want to pull in others outside of the Camaro community, we all know that. But you cannot turn a blind eye to what you are hearing from the Camaro community, and you seem to be doing just that. This car alone could assist in a big way to turn the tide for GM, and bring back alot of customers, customers who will continue to buy other cars in the future. Have you listened to how many in these threads are telling you they would rather buy the Challenger? If I were on GM's design team for this concept, that would bother me. That would bother me alot. That would tell me we are not done yet with this car, that it's not sending the message we want it to send. OK, I'm done.

The new concept car poll on this site slow that almost 70% of the people prefer the Challenger. May I remind you this is a Camaro site with all generations of Camaro enthusiast.

Here's Your Sign!!!

Too bad it's a bad poll though, it started before the Camaro concept was made public and was based on pic's of a clay model Camaro. Your right that we have all generations of Camaro represented but the site was/is designed as a 1st gen site. A lot of the folks here do own other generations and the quality of the membership has been a draw for other generation owners. The large number of members pushing for a more replica 1st gen look for the new Camaro make it evident it is still really a 1st gen site.

I personally haven't had the time to look elsewhere for input, anyone got a handle on what the 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen feel is for the car?

Generally, the other boards have been much more critical of the car than we here.

I can't believe some of the hate I've read!

Out of respect to Infamous I won't post those links....

I don't know you, but your attitude on all this really is bothersome, especially considering you are representing yourself as someone who is tied to GM. I am trying to be diplomatic here, but I am wondering if your attitude reflects you or that of 'your company' as you put it.

What in the H.E double L are you talking about??!!!! What have I said that reflects a bad attitude. Again...I think you are misinterpreting my tone inflection in my post. I bare no malice towards anyone in all this. And as far as my attitude towards our customers...all I've tried to do is defend my company by rationalizing their approach the vehicle. Everyone wanted to know why it wasn't more retro...so I explained it to them. Where's the problem?

I have also said plenty about how I feel about this car, both in this thread as well as your other one, and many others have done the same. You say you have read everything, yet you are not listening. You come back every time trying to convince everyone why the style needs to be the way it is, instead of listening to the feedback and reporting these comments to GM, which is what you initially said you were going to do. Does that mean 'your company' also is not listening? If that's true, then that's a pretty sad commentary considering the current state of GM.

Dude....take it easy. I'm listening...believe me...I am listening. And I feel you and others have made valid points about riding the "retro wave". The car IS retro...just not as retro as some people would like. But there's a good reason for that and I feel I've outlined enough. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. You don't have to agree with me if you don't want to. I read the negative comments but I've also read plenty of postive comments as well. On other boards the sentiment seems to lean more towards them liking it. All and all, I think the car has been more than well recieved and we haven't even had a chance to have the public see it in person in Detroit yet. That's coming next week and I fully expect it to do great. Hey look...I could be wrong in all this and perhaps your sentiments will be heard (if they're loud enough) and the car will become the full blown '69 replica that you believe it should be. A lot could happen in the next few years. If it does, I'll still buy one. And yes...I have every intention of presenting those web pages (from my thread) to Tom Peters, I think he would appreciate them.

Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about - after all, I realize you don't see "Senior Tech" under my ID, but even if your affinity for this car comes from you actually having a hand in designing it, you need to take a couple steps back and realize this is constructive criticism we are offering you, offering 'your company.' Whether or not you agree with my own personal comments on this car is not the issue for me.

It's not an issue for me either...I don't where you got the idea that it was. I recognize constructive criticism when I read it and so far it's all been good. How are you reading into this that I'm not "getting it"?

We all want this car to be successful - we all have a vested interest in it succeeding. GM is playing to a very unique and loyal market with the very introduction of this concept - of course you want to pull in others outside of the Camaro community, we all know that. But you cannot turn a blind eye to what you are hearing from the Camaro community, and you seem to be doing just that.

How does handing over a thread discussion on this car over to the lead designer constitute turning a blind eye? Explain that one to me.

This car alone could assist in a big way to turn the tide for GM, and bring back alot of customers, customers who will continue to buy other cars in the future. Have you listened to how many in these threads are telling you they would rather buy the Challenger? If I were on GM's design team for this concept, that would bother me. That would bother me alot. That would tell me we are not done yet with this car, that it's not sending the message we want it to send. OK, I'm done.

Hey....it's just a concept vehicle. Again...anything can happen in the next few years. Yes...I've listened to people say they'll buy the Challanger when it comes out. That sounds more like an act of spite rather than an act of preference. I'd be interested to see just how many will really do that and how many were just poppin' off because they were disappointed.

I gotta tell ya...I'm not liking having rocks thrown at my head here. I have a right to my opinions too. You don't see me jumping down anyone elses throat for not agreeing with me. I don't understand this hostility. Maybe I should just keep my damn mouth shut about it from now on because it doesn't look like I'm helping any.

Guys, another perspective as a Team Camaro member, not as a moderator now... over 2 years ago the rumors of a new camaro were all over the place. Then we got a member of Team Camaro here that works at GM, that is nice enough to ASK for our comments about the new concept car. He could have just as easily never brought anything here at all, then where would we all be? We'd be searching for an email or address to send letters to GM about it.
Here we have an inside with 'Infamous' who has personally put his name on this request for comment and he WILL take our comments to the head honchos too. What better way can we get to toss in our perspectives than this, its WIN WIN all the way around.
Lets keep the negative slants about GM out of it and keep the constructive comments toward the Camaro, thats what is most important to all of us who love these cars. He asked for our input on the CAR, so type away. Slamming him or GM wont buy us any better inside edge will it?
While I would love to see more retro in it, we have a year or 2 for it to evolve, with our imput as well as that of zillions of others too. Im sure Infamous will keep us updated as time goes by and with that 2cents worth, :) I cant wait to buy one. :)

Infamous...It was stated on Lateral-g that another concept was built that more closely resembled a 69 Camaro.. If there are this many that are wishing and wondering what a more retro one would look like, why not show it to them and then get their input ? If I were going to make such a big product gamble I would want all the input I could get before making the decision to go into production.

If GM was actively not going the "me too" route on this car they may have accomplished the objective. This design not being enough of a retro (69 camaro) is the general criticism I have seen. If the drivetrain can compete with the other manufacturers cars it just might be a winner as a new car, not a retro design.

I like the concept Camaro. I like the Challenger more. If both concept cars were available today, I would buy the Challenger in a heart beat! The owner of the local Dodge dealership is a friend of mine. I told him at the gym last night to put me on the list.
Fellas, keep in mind that we are the ignorant public. Do you think the brass @ GM want my/our opinion?(excluding imfamous) What do I know. I'm just a baby boomer with discretionary income. The last GM car I purchased was a 1991 Camaro. Sold it a year later for a 1992 Toyota 4-Runner. Since 1992, GM hasn't built anything I've liked.
As a consumer, we vote approval on a product/service when we spend $$$$$.
Most of us here @ Team Camaro are purists. We only want the 5th gen Camaro to resemble the 1st.
GM is not going to build this 5th gen Camaro to appease us here @ Team camaro.

Infamous...It was stated on Lateral-g that another concept was built that more closely resembled a 69 Camaro.. If there are this many that are wishing and wondering what a more retro one would look like, why not show it to them and then get their input ? If I were going to make such a big product gamble I would want all the input I could get before making the decision to go into production.
Charley...I only got the oppurtunity to see this car that's at the auto show when it was still in clay mock-up over the summer. In regards to a 2nd car, I know that sometimes GM will have 2 studios compete head to head on a design and then take the best one. That's not anything new, Chrysler does it all the time. Lutz brought that with him when he came over. They did it for Solstice. Call it a Lutzism. For this car I heard the Advanced Studio out in California may have been involved, but I'm not sure. I never saw a 2nd car. Maybe that other car is the one they're talking about. But I agree with you, Charley...that would be the best way of clinicing the car. Clinicing....is that a word? Clinic...ing?

And guys....I'd be careful about labeling me an "insider" LOL!!!! I enjoy talking about the car but I must watch that I not step over any proprietary guidelines here. All I can really give you is opinions and any news of chatter going around the General. As far as factual information...that's a big "no no". I can tell you that I am not associated with that program in any way, shape or form but I do know some of the facts about the car and of it's future from friends and colleagues who are working on it...but that stuff is confidential information, I'm real sorry. Besides, the car is going on a Holden Architecture. If the program were to move over to Austrialia I'm going to be so far out of the loop it won't even be funny. I might be asking you for any news on it. LOL!!!!

I'm going to disagree with the vast majority here.
I love the new design.
I love the possibilities all the technology presents.
I can't wait to see how the RS, SS, Z/28 versions look.
Sure, there are tweaks I'd personally like to see, but I think they're doing really well with it so far. I own a '69 Camaro, and I love it. I love it more than any other car I've ever owned, and probably ever will own. But I don't want a brand new 1969 Camaro out there to cheapen what we already have. I think there is such a thing as too much retro. I like the Mustang a lot. I like the Challenger concept a lot. But I also like the Camaro concept a lot. I'm sure there will be changes made, and I'm sure this will not make or break the design for me. I'm not sure if I'll have the income to be in line when they're first released, but I'll probably buy one when they start showing up on the used lots.
Having said all that, I definitely think it's in GM's best interest to keep their ears to the ground and listen to what the faithful are saying, even if that isn't their sole demographic. They're the ones that scream the loudest!

RETRO is what is IN ! ! ! ! ! Its whats happening & been happening for sometime now, whether it be music or clothes or whatever. Chevy REALLY needs to get just as retro as its competitors:

BMW - Mini-cooper

Chrysler - Challenger

VW - The Bug

Chrysler - Viper, based on the cobra of the sixties.

Ford - Mustang, should have been even more retro IMHO.

After seeing the new car a blt more I'm liking it better. I can see the aftermarket making up conversions to this model to make it more retro for those who want that. A new front and rear facia would do most of what is wanted.

Too bad they can't offer two Camaro flavors:
Camaro Retro
Camaro Modern

"concept" I think more people should refresh themselves on the definition of that word!

1. To Infamous---------"Thank You" I have spent the better part of an hour reading posts to your inquiry. I think you need thanked, it has got to be hard to "read" others thoughts without the power of audio to get a feel.

2. To Dennis---------" Thank You" I believe the photo you posted gives the "concept" (again read your dictionaries) a better look than the photos I have seen done from above.

I was not enthusiastic about the clay rendering, but it was "clay", I was little happier with the first real photo I saw, A Red "concept" shot from above. But I got dissapointed when I saw cadilac tendencies. I then was peaked with curiosity when I saw a hugger orange with racing stripes shot from above ( different grill, I think we all know that could use some work). Then I saw the rotating video, Hmm I could drive that right through the ford lot my freaking wife works at! (NO LIE). Now The pic that Dennis posted and the silver car that was unveiled, has anyone looked at that car head on, Man I saw 69 camaro, dodge viper, corvette, and no mustang look with that car all rolled into one.

Can anyone guess where I stand, Well I'm not saying, I mostly just wanted everyone to go through my lengthy post, much like I did an hour ago with everyone else's.:D

In the end We as camaro guys and gals haven't had a camaro to buy in four years, right now I would pay for a donkey tattoed with stripes and emblems as long as it is faster than the Rustang:p

have a good weekend TC'ers

I was one of the lucky ones invited to Detroit as well.

My opinion on the car:
It has characteristics of the '69 model, ...the '67/'68, ...'70's, ...rear deck features of the C6, ...yet a newness and futuristic look for a car of the 21st century. Add to that the wide aggressive stance, ...the drivetrain from a Corvette, ...this thing is "Camaro" all the way. In three words, ... "they nailed it!".

I think they did a great job with this car, I really do. I've read the (fewer) opinions on the car that they didn't, ...that's OK, many people are looking for many different things, ...the age old saying "you can't please everyone".
Sure, ...there are some (very minor) things I'd like to see 'revised' on the car, ...and I know things WILL change, ...this is a concept. I hope though that while some things change, ...that most do not and that the production version looks very much like what we saw on Monday.

Kevin


...anyway, here's an interview with Tom Peters you might find interesting:

http://www.frontiernet.net/~face440/DiscoveryCamarodocumentary.asf



...Funny thing, ...I got back to work Wednesday and asked a friend what he thought of the car.
His answer with no hesitation, (and I quote)...
" I don't like it, ...it looks too much like a Vette."

So, ...to some, ...what is good, ...is bad, ....go figure.

IMHO, I trhink then need to make teh headlights more 69ish...those awkward ones on the concpet are goofy

Disappointed!

My first view was that I didn't like it , its not retro, it should have looked more like the 69, but the more I look the more I like. I've owned four 69s and still own a 69 Z28, But the fact of the mater is, If GM had released this camaro right now I would have wanted it more retro, but in four years from now I think the concept that were all looking at will be kick a_ _ ! And in 2009 we may not care that it doesn't look so much like the 69, I gess the main thing is that GM brings back the car and name we love so much, and the raw hp that we all still want. Owner of 3 camaros 67 SS, 69 Z28 , 96 Z28/SS

Well, I waited to see what the newer camaro looked like, and an 06 Mustang will probably end up in front of my house in March. GM YOU WAITED TOO LONG AND DID NOT DELIVER. (. . . Am I the only one that hates those FAKE quarter panel gills/vents?) FORD has a great factory performance selection for the Mustang, I'm eyeing the Handling package, maybe I can get the dealer to install before I take delivery!

infamous retro might be out by the time gm has this thing done,the first gen camaro ran 3 years and did vary well. if the camaro is out in 2009, ford will have 4 years with the mustang and big sales and dodge will have 3 years with the challenger and chevy well missed the boat plus they will have three years to make changes to go less retro mike

I do agree with you on the fact that this new Concept Camaro is everything but stunning. I own A Black 95 Camaro Z28 and wanted one ever since i seen one and rode in a Lt1. Ill never forget how cool it looked the first time I seen it. And although i respect all opinions, this new Camaro just doesnt have the 'wow' i was expecting. Im 22 and in college, and I love my 4 Gen Fbody. So much so im planning on buying one again. On this 5th Gen, I think the only thing they got right was the amount of horsepower. I hate ford, but the new Saleen's and the Dodge Concept Challenger are right on the money. Also, GM needs to realize that a Camaro is not a Corvette. If people wanted a Vette, they would buy one. Even if I could afford a Vette, I wouldnt buy one. My father has a vette and I dont like it as much as my Lt1.
Bottom Line to me is I think GM needs to focus on what is fun but conservative. Camaro's are loud, in your face, clean sports cars. What the hell happened?

I find it fascinating that 40+ years after the original mustang caught GM off guard, Ford has another undeniable hit with their Retro Pony, and Chevy's playing catchup again. Overall I like the new Camaro except for the front end. I'd have liked the tailpanel to be more 1st gen but it doesn't bother me as much as the front/grill.

Yes the Mustang and the Challenger are very retro, but they've both certainly been updated. You can't put a new Mustang or the concept Challenger side by side with the cars that inspired them and not be able to instantly tell the difference. THAT'S what I was hoping for with the new Camaro. NOT a dynacore style brand new sheetmetal of an old design, but rather an updated design with the same general proportions and feel of the original. It's like GM is unwilling to admit that the market knows what it wants. GM has basically let Picasso interpret the Mona Lisa.

where is the new camaro being built ? In china,japan,australia,the muscle car should be built here not acrross the pond.We as Americians better learn,buy only American cars.Soon we will be working for China,Japan or some other country,NOT America.There's a sign I read the other day..It says...Buy a car from Japan or China is good for there economy and Bad for ours..think about it.The sign is right.We as Americans better wise up,or it is our doom not there's,thanks for the time to read my thoughts on the cars Mr440duster@aol.com

I don't think it's all that bad, I think there needs to be a few changes but overall it looks pretty good. I agree with the plethora of comments about the front end (and hopefully GM is taking notice) but I like the overall shape and I love what they did with the interior. I would buy one. It's worlds better that that GTO. Bye Bye GTO.

I was disappointed. It looks like they took most of their styling cues from the Vette and the XLR. The competition has gone retro and if GM wants to compete they need to do the same.
You don't show up at a football game and play basketball.

I think if this car had debuted a year earlier it would be a slam dunk hit with people drooling and counting the days until production. IMO its a design that has legs to last a long time, having seen what ford wants to do with the mustang in 09 Im not impressed (think early 70's stangs). Of the three the challenger might be the most universally loved by enthusuasts however they #1 dont have room for it in their platform to build it in sufficient numbers #2 will price it way over a camero/mustang #3 because of its limited numbers they will probably command and receive top $$ until the retro craze fades, theres no risk for dodge and they can maximize their profits because the rest of their line that the challenger would be a small part of sells and is profitable. My only concern is that GM takes too long to come to market with a car that can drive up traffic in their showrooms and ends up in a financial position that they cant afford to build it.

Yawn..................

Once again GM has missed the mark. Their '69 concept is a cartoonish rendition of an American legend. The lead designer even says it is a modern artistic impression of the original.

Why buy a "Transformer" copy when you can buy the original? Especially when the value of the copy drops the minute the front tire hits the street in front of the dealership.

I guess at 45 years of age I am just an old fart and don't understand all these darn wipper-snappers and their new fangled motor cars.

For my money GM should have left the body design alone, used the actual '69 body and interior design AS IS and stuffed it with a modern drivetrain. I still say they wouldn't have been able to build enough of them.

I'm 63 and agree they should have made it more reto like the 1969 then after selling it for say five years changed to the new style would have worked out great.

God, if they only could have given us something that resembled the first gen more. Even if it weren't a duplicate...
Even the youth recognize the first gen's as on of the coolest cars ever made.
The problem is that all of the 40 & 50 year olds are voicing their opinions & that means nothing to GM, they are trying to get the younger tuner market.
Little do they know that the same younger tuner market LOVES the first gen camaros as well.
Speak up Youth of America & help GM Give us ALL what we want....

Well I'm 50 and would hate to see 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands of new Camaros that look just like our old classics on the freeways... It would really desensitize everyone to our old cars. It could also make a lot more public officials not understand the attraction we have for our old cars and that could have negative impact when they vote on smog and clunker laws...

Well I'm 50 and would hate to see 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands of new Camaros that look just like our old classics on the freeways... It would really desensitize everyone to our old cars. It could also make a lot more public officials not understand the attraction we have for our old cars and that could have negative impact when they vote on smog and clunker laws...

WOW, I couldn't agree with that post more.

I'm not 50, just 31 but other than that, I ditto that one.

Guys, I don't want to be misunderstood. We are looking for more Retro, not a '69 clone. I think we can all agree that Ford hit it on the head with the Mustang. If the new camaro looked more first gen, like the mustang strongly resembles it's predesessor, I think we would ALL be happy.
The mustang looks retro, looks awesome, but NO ONE is mistaking it for a classic car. It just looks hot. The new Camaro looks like pieces of the Caddy & the Vette stuck on the back of another car trying to be a Camaro.. if that makes sense...

My thoughts on the new Camaro concept.

I was lucky enough to be one of the 250 to be invited by Scott Settlemire to see the new Camaro concept debut at the Detroit auto show. The whole weekend was a treat and I really want to thank Scott and the folks at Chevrolet for doing what they did. The night before the auto show we had a gathering at the GM Heritage center and most of the team that put the new Camaro together was there. They said they would listen to our comments and wanted to hear them so here I am.
While the new Camaro is neat and I think neater than the 4th gen it replaced, it is not what I was hoping for. I can remember talking with friends years ago about how cool it would be and how many cars Chevy would sell if they made the 69 Camaro again. We knew it was pipe dreaming but it sure was neat to think about. I never expected it to happen. Then comes along the new Mustang and it looks very much like a 67 Mustang. Then there are rumors of a retro Camaro and I'm pumped. Then there is a retro Hemi Challenger and it appears we are back in our youth. This is getting exciting. I will buy a new 69 Camaro. I'll buy 2 ! How many people are out there that would jump at the chance to buy a new 69 Camaro ? How many out there that like the old 69 Camaro's but don't buy one because they can't work on cars and old cars need to be worked on ? Would they buy a 69 Camaro with a warranty ? With the other makes doing the retro theme this is the perfect time and probably our only chance to do a 69 type Camaro. The market is there. There is worry that retro is not long legged enough to pencil out for the bean counters. The 69 Camaro is over 35 years old and the design still looks great. A new version of it can look just as great. I'm 52 years old and I want one. I have met many younger than me that also love the looks of a 69 Camaro. It's like we are invited to a retro party with Ford and Chrysler but have decided not to come. I know the retro T-bird didn't do well but guys like me were about 4 years old when they first came out. The guy that missed out on buying a 57 T-bird back in 57 is now probably close to 70 years old so I wouldn't expect him to buy too many cars of his youth. I missed the chance to buy a Camaro in 69 and would sure like another chance .I don't think there will ever be another chance like right now to capture the audience that is out there waiting You have a chance to capture the youth market and the baby boomers at the same time. Maybe I'm just in the minority and don't know it. GM really does want and need to know what the public will buy so they can decide on what to build. You may or may not agree with me on wanting the new Camaro to look more retro like a 69. Whatever it is you prefer please let Chevrolet know. If you don't voice your opinion don't bitch later on if they didn't do what you wanted.
-Charley
I am really disapppinted with GM. They have a chance to do something great and they are dooming the new Camaro. It is not retro enough. I look at the new Mustang and I see a Mustang, I look at the new Challenger and I see a Challenger.

They were quoted in the latest HMM as saying "we did not want to be a slave to the 69 Camaro design". I am a designer and that's designer speak for I have an ego and will not copy someone's work.

Doomed to the same fate as that half-assed GTO. I WILL BE BUYING A CHALLENGER and waiting for GM to go out of business. Time for the bean counters and designers with fragile ego's to stop running the company.