Hey I have a 69 Camaro with a 383 Stroker. What kind of oil do you guys prefer.

A good "SL" rated 10-30 mineral based (non-synthetic)...Castrol, Valvoline, etc.

This time of year in NC, you might even consider going down to 5W30. I would add Penzoil to the list of premium oils. I don't use synthetics coosing to change my petroleum based 'earl' (as they say in da south) every 3,000 miles.

Larger Dave

Ok I'll be the bad guy and say something different. I like Royal Purple (http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/rpmoa.html) it can be a tad higher but it is VERY good. I used Penzoil and have no problem with it but some guys tried this stuff at the track and hooked us up on some. It is good but I like Penzoil after that.

Ok Guy's why no Synthetic , this where Oil is going . I have run Amsoil for several years in My boat , Cars , and a blown 509 big block they all just love it and there's way more protection . I don't even run Penzoil or Valvoline in My John deere rideing mower .

I use non synthetic oil for break-in / dyno etc. but after that I save a fortune on oil changes using the Purple. When you run Alcohol it gets in your oil I can take my car home let it sit over night and crack the drain until I see oil steady. Alcohol will not mix with the Purple blend it pushes it out fast. Now instead of a oil change weekly I change it about every 5 weeks depending on rounds Ive gone etc. I may have to add a little not even a 1/2 qt somewhere in between but thats Way more cost effective. Not to mention how nice the bearings look when ya tear it down.

EWWW I never liked Valvoline don't know why I never tried it. I guess it works they still sell it. I never could afford a John deer rider either though I had to push back in the day, all 3 acres.

Synthetic oil is still oil. Just like any petroleum product it is a mixture not a homogeneous product. I will run synthetic gasoline (that stuff we buy at the pumps is refined and distilled but if has to be cracked and recombined to be useful in modern high compression engines). They do the same thing to make synthetic oil. They start with a molecule they like and then they get rid of the ones they don't like by refining it more to obtain a more uniform product.

The reason I don't pay to buy this better product is because I am not convinced that I need it. Straight premium blend mineral oil has always worked for me. I have never run alcohol though I am looking forward to the opportunity (our governor is proposing that he gets some benefit from all that subsidizing of the sugar industry in Florida; by selling alcohol at the gas pump as an alternative fuel, rather than let the oil industry explore for oil off our pristine bikini infested beaches). And though I am hard on motors having trashed over fifty, I have never lost a bottom end.

Larger Dave

Thanks very much.All of your comments are appreciated. Thanks again

The one thing I noticed running the Amsoil is I don't that white goo up in My valve covers now , when I ran dino oil it was always there . As far as the John Deere Mower goes My Wife bought it for My birthday Boy is that love or what .
Mark .

You can safely use a high quality synthetic like Amsoil in the 383 with no problem AFTER break in with dino oil. Ive used Amsoil for 30 years now and only changed it once a year on all my cars (69 camaro too) per Amsoil recommendations and Ive also had the oil tested on occasion and its always been still good for continued use after a year.. So Ive saved not having to change oil every 3000 miles, saved on filter costs, and got better mileage and engine protection with better cold weather starts too. If you do the math, Syns save money over dino oil but only if you do the extended drain intervals.
Also worth noting, Mobil One syn is the factory fill in the Corvette too. :)

The one thing I noticed running the Amsoil is I don't that white goo up in My valve covers now , when I ran dino oil it was always there . As far as the John Deere Mower goes My Wife bought it for My birthday Boy is that love or what .
Mark .
Hey thats the kind of love we all need. :D Maybe she didn't want you tired when you got though for a better purpose. :beers: Hey I did have one question I was always told those high dollar riders had beer holders is that a myth? :D or just a trick to get you in to buy one....

Yes it does have a drink holder but the Wife won't let Me drink and mow , She says I end up missing to much .
Mark .

Some thoughts...

If the reason to use syns is less frequent change intervals, it wouldn't sway me,..I'm not leaving anything in my crankcase longer than 3000 miles. Gasoline combustion is a filthy process.

Also,..the Vette (and some Cadilacs) were the first to get Dexcool coolant and Opti-Spark,..so the fact Mobil-1 is used on new Vettes doesn't win me over either.

Lastly,..if synthetics meant fewer engine breakdowns wouldn't all car manufacturers recommend syns to reduce warranty expenses?

When I can buy Amsoil or Mobil-1 for $2.25 a quart, I'll give'm a shot.

I ran Valvoline (10w30) conventional oils for years in my race motors with no problems. I switched to Valvoline Durablend when I was having a diificult time controlling engine temperatures. The blend reduced my engine temperatures by about 20 degrees at the end of a 1/4 mile run. I also picked up about a tenth of a second in my e.t. I routinely replace rod bearings and main bearings every other season. I've noticed that the bearings are in much better shape after two seasons using the Durablend, I've also have not had any galling on piston skirts since making the switch. It was not unusual to find a couple of pistons with postage stamp sized gall marks when I was using convention oil. I've since switched everything I own over to Durablend. My street vehicles all picked up about one mpg. As far as oil changes even with conventional oils I always ran 6000 mils between oil changes, never had any issues, as a matter of fact I ran a Malibu with a 305 it for 310,000 miles usng conventional 10/30 Valvoline. I only change the oil in my race motors 2 times in a season, again with no issues. I never run oils above 10w30 even in my race motors which go as high as 8600 rpm. Just some food for thought.

After spending close to 50 grand on My 69 vert so far , the Day I cheap out and purchase 1970 technology oil for My ride , it will be a frosty friday somewhere . After seeing My motor inside using dino oil compared to Synthetic was drastic . And using oil you need to change every 3000 thousand miles just doesn't work for Me , When you can easily double that or more without a hitch using Synthetic's . IMO One main reason alot of Car Manufacturers don't run this Technology they just don't want them to last forever , there's no Money in a Motor that will go half a million miles .
Mark .

The auto makers need to also break their engines in with dino oil to seat the rings and other parts. In the Vette, they recommend changing out the Mobile One in 2500 miles or so after break in. The new vette engine had over heating issues and instead of redesigning the whole cooling system, changing oil cured the heat problem, presto, done deal.
The 3,000 mile change number is just that, a number. Now new cars change intervals are at 7500 miles and ever further with the onboard oil analyziers built into the computer system.
The fast change oil centers live on keeping folks UN-informed about the fact that technology changed, just like computers. Updating to a syn WILL be better for the engine and your pocket book long term.
Would you fly in a jet airplane that had dino oil in it instead of syn? They've used syns exclusively since the 50's in them.
Do your own experiment with oil analysis on your own engine and you will see the light. :)
But if not, its cool, to each their own.

Does anybody run the Valvoline "Racing" Oil? I used it in a Chevelle that I drove three hours to the dragstrip at 4000 RPM, raced all night, and drove three hours home. I ran that motor for 60,000 miles then sold it to a friend. I used to tear that motor down for inspection quite often, and it never showed wear or any build-up. My friend is still running that motor with the same bearings and everything and runs great. Of course, this was just my experience. I used to deal with Bruno's Machine Shop, (that became Reggie Jackson's High Performance) and he would only run Valvoline or Castrol. He hated Penzoil for some reason. He told me that if you leave the lid off a drum of Penz, it will evaporate because of all the solvents in it. I have never tried that! I stopped using Castrol because after I poured out the oil and let the empty bottle sit over-night, you could see some kind of sediment in the bottom of the bottle. I don't know what that stuff is, but I don't like it. I have run Valvoline ever since.

I decided to go with Castrol Syntec 10W30 and a Fram Extended Gaurd filter.

So the reason car manufacturers don't recommend synthetics for all their cars is so engines will wear out sooner and we'll buy more cars?...hmmm

As to the earlier aviation arguement. Many builders of aviation engines recommend NOT to use synthetics. Here's a top avaition engine builder here in Texas (scroll to the bottom of the page):

http://www.ramaircraft.com/Maintenance-Tips/Oil-Recommendations.htm

As was said earlier,..to each, his own.

As soon as I read the title of this post I knew it was going to be "interesting". You can ask 10 different guys what oil they like and get 10 different answers (as you can see). My personal favorite non synthetic is Valvoline (both racing and non racing), what I like about the Racing blend is it has more "cushion" (ash) in it if you run a flat tappet cam. This keeps things happy. After calling ALL the major cam manufactures (a couple years ago) every single one told me NOT to run synthetic oils with their cams (Crower, Crane, Comp, etc...) call for yourself and ask. The reason I got, was because synthetics don't have ash in them. I would love to run synthetics in my flat tappet engine too, anyone have "proof" it is not an issue to do so?

Now with that said, I do run Mobil-1 in my 2000 GMC truck (roller cam). I have run synthetic in the past in non roller engines and didn't see any ill effects. I like the idea of synthetics and believe in them, I am just curious why cam companies don't reccomend them? I am sure it's not so they can sell more cams. I do run synthetic gear lubes and greases.

As far as synthetics go I like Amsoil, Mobil-1. I have heard great things about Royal Purple, but haven't tried it. Red-Line is good stuff too.

Dino oils I like Valvoline or Valvoline, I won't take Pennzoil for free, just a personal thing.

i worked for mobil for a while...and it isnt the iol you need to wirry aobut for using the extened intervals it is your filter..onece in it full it no longer does its job....so yeah the oil may go 15000 7500 or 5000 but will the filter ......no......and who wantst o chance the oil alsting that long...yeah it say under normal driving conditions....yeah i love in louisiana and normal driving conditions dont exists....it is too hot we drive too hard and too much...there is no such thing as normal driving conditiions..even my grandmother doesnt....so no your oil wont last that long...and if you change oyur oil regurlary like u need to then mobil one is a waste......enigne builders across the nation will tell you so; use 20 50 cange it regulary and you will have no problem....mobil is only trying to get you to spend the money to go sythetic and it doesnt make a differece and yeah the vettes have facotry fill but like i said change it ever 3 to 4 thousand miles and there will be nO difference but if u are lazy and wait until 6-10 thousand miles and then you are screwed and need to go synthetic but again it is the filter that suffer after than long i have seen them be bone dry after a car goin over 7 thousand miled and be full of carbon and all kind of crap.....they no longer sircultate oil and then you engine is full of the crap that will harm it....

I use non synthetic oil for break-in / dyno etc. but after that I save a fortune on oil changes using the Purple. When you run Alcohol it gets in your oil I can take my car home let it sit over night and crack the drain until I see oil steady. Alcohol will not mix with the Purple blend it pushes it out fast. Now instead of a oil change weekly I change it about every 5 weeks depending on rounds Ive gone etc. I may have to add a little not even a 1/2 qt somewhere in between but thats Way more cost effective. Not to mention how nice the bearings look when ya tear it down.

EWWW I never liked Valvoline don't know why I never tried it. I guess it works they still sell it. I never could afford a John deer rider either though I had to push back in the day, all 3 acres. VALVOLINE IS ONE OF THE OLDEST OILS IN THE WORLD AND IS USED IN MORE RACING VENUES, [NASCAR,NHRA top fuel-top alcohol-pro stock-top sportsman-comp-pro stock bike and winnings a lot, IHRA] JUST TO NAME A FEW AND THIS FACT.DO YOUR HOMEWORK NOT ALL OILS ARE CREATED EQUAL LOOK AT VAVOLINES WEB SIGHT FACTS DO NOT LIE..DO NOT RUN synthetic OIL IN ANY MOTOR THAT HAS NOT BEEN REBUILT BEFORE 1986-+ AS SO SEALS ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH synthetic OIL AND MAY LEAK I RUN IT IN MY RACE CAR AND MY 68 SS RS CAMARO

Now with that said, I do run Mobil-1 in my 2000 GMC truck (roller cam). I have run synthetic in the past in non roller engines and didn't see any ill effects.

I believe they used Valvoline in the lunar rover, and it had a flat tappet cam.:)

Sense most of us have rebuilt our engines well after 1986 synthetic is the way to go all tests have proven that i haven't seen one yet that disproves this. Also i haven't seen any tests that show that the older seals don't like synthetic oil I have used sythetic oil in all my cars for the last 12 years (all my cars were born in the 70's or earlier some originals and some modified) and i have never had a leaking problem that I would attribute to the oil period! The main concern that i have heard is the rear main rope seal on the older chevys but I have never witnessed this leak caused by the oil on any of my cars... there are no concerns with leaks with any of the other gaskets. So use the best oil money can buy use synthetic and save your engine the wear and tear of normal oils.. also buy the best filter you can afford never skimp on oil and filter ...believe me you will save more money that you spend... Choose synthetic after all it is the best!

Ok lets use facts when folks are looking for advice.

DO NOT RUN synthetic OIL IN ANY MOTOR THAT HAS NOT BEEN REBUILT BEFORE 1986-+ AS SO SEALS ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH synthetic OIL AND MAY LEAK

That is simply a totally FALSE statement.
Syns are MORE compatible with seals than dino oil. Since 1975 syns have had seal swell additives in them to promote seal swelling to keep tight seals in good shape. The old problem was dino oils allowed the seals to get hot and crack and then the good ole dino oil filled the cracks with varnish and byproducts of combustion. When you changed to a syn, the new syn oil has much better cleaning ability and cleaned out the cracks of the varnish and the seals then leaked. So the truth is, the dino oil was the problem with seals to begin with not the syn. Mechanics were replacing valve stem seals for years and years before syns became available.

The reason most high power drag cars and others use dino oil is that they dump it after one or 2 races to change out parts and they put in new oil, its sure cheaper to dump dino oil than a good syn. But its interesting that Mobile One is in so many NASCAR engines isnt it?

Filtration is VERY important with extended drain intervals as pointed out above too. Thats why Amsoil and Mobile recommend highest quality depth filters that can filter down to 5 microns compared to 20 microns with a paper filter.

Syns run cooler, reduce friction and last longer. Its a fact supported by over 30 years of R&D.

The aviation use of Syns is well documented for 50 years but there are exceptions in custom built jets. Im talking your everyday Boeing type and all military jets too.

As mentioned, ask 10 guys what oil they like, you get 10 different answers. But good documented debate is always nice to share too. :)

LOL, Al be nice, I wouldn't want to have to dig that thread back up.

I don't think anyone can argue against the fact that synthetic oils reduce wear. I have seen it first hand, they also keep the inside of the engine cleaner. If you don't think synthetics are superior, do your own testing (both heat and wear), synthetics will shine.

If I could get it in writing that synthetics are OK for flat tappet cams I would never run dino oil in any of my stuff. If you call the oil companies they say it's fine, if you call the cam companies they say don't do it.

The down side to a lot of people running synthetics at the track is, it makes clean up a real pain, not nearly as easy to clean up the track surface as it was with dino oil.

Ok, everybody seems to accept the idea of changing dino oil every 3000 miles (give or take). And everybody seems ot agree that syn lasts longer than dino oil. BUT...

what is the longest length of time you go between oil changes for dino and syn oil if you don't put a lot of miles on the car??????????????

My car sees 3000-4000 miles a year so it only gets about 1 (maybe two) oil changes a year, and I run dino valvoline.

Greg

Once a year is still recommended even with syn's, since that short driving will add moisture and combustion contaminants to the oil that wont get the time or heat to burn it off. Dump a syn once a year. Id think the same with dino oil too.
They do make bypass oil filters that have been proven to extend syn oil into 50,000 and up to 100,000 miles with just top off oil as needed. But that is more for serious highway drivers, truckers and sales reps that put on a ton of miles. But it does work.

VALVOLINE IS ONE OF THE OLDEST OILS IN THE WORLD AND IS USED IN MORE RACING VENUES, [NASCAR,NHRA top fuel-top alcohol-pro stock-top sportsman-comp-pro stock bike and winnings a lot, IHRA] JUST TO NAME A FEW AND THIS FACT.DO YOUR HOMEWORK NOT ALL OILS ARE CREATED EQUAL LOOK AT VAVOLINES WEB SIGHT FACTS DO NOT LIE..DO NOT RUN synthetic OIL IN ANY MOTOR THAT HAS NOT BEEN REBUILT BEFORE 1986-+ AS SO SEALS ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH synthetic OIL AND MAY LEAK I RUN IT IN MY RACE CAR AND MY 68 SS RS CAMARO

erdmann I apologies If my comment offended you about Valvoline. It was just my opinion. I said I never liked Valvoline don't know why I never tried it. I guess it works they still sell it. Its like a guy who drove Ford all his life. He says he doesn't like a Chevy, thats just his opinion. We know hes missing out :D

I believe there are good uses for dino and synthetic. I mean I haven't put a drop of synth in my backhoe. But that doesn't mean it isn't good for it I just don't want to put it in there, it always works fine with dino. Now my race car I want performance and Royal Purple works great for me so I will continue to use it. Its just my opinion to each his own. :)

I love the comments this started. I was involved in testing and converting my company's products to synthetics in the early 80s. We build machines with 3 and 4 speed gear trains with operational loads very similar to autos. We ran extensive test to determine the benefits and if design changes were necessary. We found issues with synthetics foaming and traced it down to case venting. The synthetics formed a bubble over the trans case vent holes and prevented the case from breathing. Once we enlarged the vent holes the problem was eliminated. No seal issues were discovered, and gear life was extended big time. We also found that under extremely high pressure in narrow oil galleys the synthetics could tempoarily turn to a solid and prevent oil passage, as soon as the pressure was reduced the oil would flow freely. I believe you'll find this issue also existed in some auto engines with small oil passages under extreme conditions (high rpm Grand Prix) and they solved the issues by enlargeing oil galleys. This might also explain why flat tappets don't like straight synthetics. Based on what I've seen I feel safe in running a blend in older design engines, having seen proof of the benefits, but an engine designed for synthetics should stay on a steady diet of synthetics.

Since all the aviation references are being made, I see the sellers of syns are getiing their message through.

But it's a giant leap (I'm dogging the manufacturers of syns here). For instance a jet's engine oil has to operate in temps of over 2000-F,..or even higher in a F-16's Pratt & Whitney or GE engines that turn 17,000 rpm.

Yes, a mineral based oil would vaporize at 2000-F, so a lubricant had to be developed in the labs to make a jet engine live. No other alternatives for this application.

Your Chevy engine should never see the dark side of 300-F, so to reason that what's good for turbine engines must be good for your Chevy doesn't work for me,..nor does the whole"thermal-breakdown" arguement.

Again,..if car manufacturers thought the use of synthetics meant fewer warranty claims, they'd be recommending syns for all their cars. They don't,..why?

Sherman anti trust laws tell the auto makers they CANNOT demand a certain brand product be used such as ONLY Mobile One in a vette. They can only recommend an SAE rating and they know the options are endless out there for consumers, so they stay clear of anything other than SAE rating. If they recommended a certain brand of oil, then next comes a certain brand of battery or sparkplug or tranny fluid and they get into a can of worms they dont need.
Thermal breakdown is only ONE of the benefits but when you lump them all together (easier starting in cold, better mileage, higher film strenth, less wear, etc) and are warranted by the oil makers for the intervals they recommend, why not? :)

Might be that anything can get you through the warranty period, after warranty the markup on repairs parts is 3-4 times manufacturing costs. Again after seeing the results I'll never go back to conventional oil, except for break in.

iSense most of us have rebuilt our engines well after 1986 synthetic is the way to go all tests have proven that i haven't seen one yet that disproves this. Also i haven't seen any tests that show that the older seals don't like synthetic oil I have used sythetic oil in all my cars for the last 12 years (all my cars were born in the 70's or earlier some originals and some modified) and i have never had a leaking problem that I would attribute to the oil period! The main concern that i have heard is the rear main rope seal on the older chevys but I have never witnessed this leak caused by the oil on any of my cars... there are no concerns with leaks with any of the other gaskets. So use the best oil money can buy use synthetic and save your engine the wear and tear of normal oils.. also buy the best filter you can afford never skimp on oil and filter ...believe me you will save more money that you spend... Choose synthetic after all it is the best! Valvoline's head engineer and chemist verified that the seals pre 86 are in fact a different and are prone to leaks and discourages synthetic oil .if you have 60s or early 70s car that has not been rebuilt DO NOT USE SYN. OIL the tolerances between the bearing surfaces were not engineered for syn. oil and has a tendency to wash out.the only reason to use syn. oil is for it superior Flow {the molecules are engineered to be square and uniform so there is less wear to metal surfaces,flows quicker and less burn off .genetically engineered .conventional oils molecules are all shapes and leave gaps between them causing more wear ,refined oil with additives added], tolerate heat, adhere to medal better, suspend dirt and the improver's do not flash off as fast. 5000 to 6000 miles max on syn. oil. filter technology is not there and you can only suspend so much dirt in a 5 qts.of oil or you will start bypassing the filter

Please tell me (besides the rope real main seal) what is the difference between a cork gasket in the 60's and a cork gasket in the year 2006? And as I stated earlier ... UM... raise your hand if you have a Camaro that has an original engine in it that has never been rebuilt....um.... I don't think I'm seeing any hands???!!! There are so few of these around that is it really worth mentioning??

I ran Mobil1 in my 240Z in the 70's with no issues, including time trials at Lime Rock.

Amsoil had 6 month or 12,000 mile depth filters designed for syn oil since 1977. This year they now introduced the next generation oil filter thats good for 1 year or 25,000 miles, its tested and proven or it wouldnt be on the market too.
Id trust the chemistry of seal 'swell' additives in a syn oil to overcome the seal question mentioned and also Ive used syn in 74 Chev 400 V8 and ran 7 years of annual oil changes and NEVER added oil other than at filter change top off. The seals are fine in the older engines IF not gooped up with varnish from the dino oil as mentioned earlier. Syns are perfectly OK for older engines if they are mechanically sound to begine with. If they blow smoke and rattle, Id never consider using a syn in it. :)

I would absolutely agree .. if your engine is running through oil or is worn out there is no sense in switching to synthetic oils as your engines life is pretty much nearig the end anyway why waste money on expensive oil.. I have used syns on my 77 camaro: 78 Elcamino: 81 Elcamino: 77 Monte Carlo: 69 Camaro: and my daily driver 94 Sunbird all of them pretty much had the same results ... virtually no engine wear...extended engine life (most of these the engine out lived the rest of the car) with no measurable leaks and nothing but smiles from me the owner (except for the 100 buck oil changes back in the 80's in canada ..um Syns weren't cheap eh)

Amsoil had 6 month or 12,000 mile depth filters designed for syn oil since 1977. This year they now introduced the next generation oil filter thats good for 1 year or 25,000 miles, its tested and proven or it wouldnt be on the market too.
Id trust the chemistry of seal 'swell' additives in a syn oil to overcome the seal question mentioned and also Ive used syn in 74 Chev 400 V8 and ran 7 years of annual oil changes and NEVER added oil other than at filter change top off. The seals are fine in the older engines IF not gooped up with varnish from the dino oil as mentioned earlier. Syns are perfectly OK for older engines if they are mechanically sound to begine with. If they blow smoke and rattle, Id never consider using a syn in it. :)i don't mean to bust you bubble but it is NOT a seal"swell " additive it is a conditioner that makes the seals more pliable "softer" leaks are do to seals becoming brittle. as for a filter going 25000mi let alone 12000mi is nonsense .the average filter filters about 500 to 700 microns .the smaller the micron the faster the filter will bypass .all car manufacturers recommend 3mo. or 3000mi in severe driving conditions read your owners manual. 90% of all cars driven today fall in this category FACT. if you go that long on a filter psi will rise and you will start bypassing dirty oil threw the motor. i make a living selling all types of oil filters and oil racing to passenger cars we do own engineering studies on the filters and oils we sell. food for thought read you cars manual . i have an unmolested 68 ss rs 396 #s matching camaro the oil i use is 30 wt base stock oil what was recommended for that car. on our drag car we disable the oil bypass in the block and we run syn oil and change the filter every 20 passes cut the filters to check for track it will surprise you .FILTERS ARE CHEEP

Ive had some family emergency issues but wanted to get back and give folks some information from a manufacturer of depth filters that surpass OEM requirements and are warranteed for 1 year or 25,000 miles. Of course its all been documented and its done by one of the largest filter companies in the country. Now if someone does a 'search' for information it will be here.

New Generation oillube filters are
manufactured with full synthetic, nanofiber media
that are less than one micron in diameter. The small
uniform filter fibers and resulting tiny inter-fiber
spaces allow more contaminate to be captured in and
on the surface of the media. Smaller fibers allow for
more efficient filtration, longer life and more oil
flow in cold weather conditions. Fibers found in cellulose
or even synthetic blend filters are larger and
have larger spaces between the fibers, causing the
contaminant to load inside the media and plug the
flow path, resulting in higher restriction and lower
capacity (1). Also, the media and internal parts of the
new filters are more resistant to degradation.

All of these new filters have an efficiency rating
of 98.7% at 15 micros and 50% at 7 microns
when tested under ISO 4548-12 protocol. Also, these
filters perform well above the requirements
set forth by the OEM.

Great info Jim Thanks!! :)