As many may have read in my responses to various posts on the subject, I got a "problem child"...

Somehow, someway, my #1 son, who celebrated his 17th birthday last Thursday, has managed to grow up into a completely self-centered, lazy individual, with no respect for anyone or anything, including himself. He won't clean his room, pick up after himself, let us know when / where he's going or who he's with, nuttin.

He also seems to think that the only rules he needs to live by are those he makes up for himself.

On top of that, he seems to think that he has nothing to learn from school, as he all ready knows everything he could possibly be taught. Over the last 4 years, we have tried 6 different educational opportunity's, including home school, 2 different private christian schools, 3 attemps at the public school system, and an attempt at a special program in the public school for kids in danger of being expelled. In all cases he has refused to place any importance on his school work, and has flunked out or been thrown out every time.

On top of that, he's a follower and very subject to peer pressure, that has sometimes gotten him in trouble with the law.

So today is last chance day. In a couple hours, we will leave to take him to St. John's Northwestern Military academy in Delafield, Wisconsin. There, for the measely cost of Thirteen THOUSAND dollars per semester, he will live in a totally structured environment, where he will be subject to rigorous discipline, military precision, and hoipefully positive peer pressure.

Say a prayer, and keep your fingers crossed for Jake. It is completely heartbreaking to watch one's oldest son grow into a comeplete loser with no possible future, in spite of the best efforts of 2 hardworking, successful, church going parents.

This is his last chance...

jim,

i will be saying prayers for you, jake and the rest of you family. im sure you must be thinking if its the right thing to do but im sure you are making the right decision. i can tell that you really love your son or you would just kick him out on his rear end and give him a five dollar bill for a tuna sandwich and a road map. i applaud you for your courage. how knows, maybe hi will be the next colin powel or neil armstrong.

god bless.
angel

Hang in there. I had similar issues and mine is now 25 graduating from college, getting married, starting his first job and is a totally different person. Five years ago I had very little hope, but kept working to get things turned around. In the end, it is up to him.

Jim, I believe I know exactly what you are going through... hang in there, it can get better...

Probably the best thing you can do under the circumstances. In the military school, I assume, he will be completely responsible for the consequnces of his own actions. That's really the lesson we want our children to learn.

When they are young, of course, a parent needs to make sure the consequences aren't so dire that they harm the child in some way. As they grow older, we need to step back more and more and let more of the natural consequnces flow through to the child. That's hard to do, as no parent (particularly mothers) wants to see a child suffer. You've taken the first step: sending him to the military school is the consequence of his prior behavior. Hopefully, they will continue the lesson in a constructive way.

As for the $13k, you'd certainly pay that much if this were an on-going medical treatment that wasn't covered by insurance. It sounds as if your child needs this "treatment."

Good luck.

I hope this turns out to be the answer for both of you.Just dont give up on him he will see the light at some point.

Jim & Family,

I have been in the USAF and NMANG for 22 years. Before that, I was a military brat. I assure you that your difficult step will yield results. My favorite problem child (not actually my kid) is now a supervisor for UPS at the Rockford Ill sort center. Another "problem child" is a flight commander at the 188th Fighter Squadron (NMANG) and a Captain at Southwest Airlines. Military structure is what helped both of them. Tough love works my man!

I have a slightly different perspective, I have taught college-age kids from 18-22 for over 20 years, so I see a lot of those self-centered, lazy, no respect type attitudes....it's amazing to me to see the same student after 4 years of college, at that age change CAN happen. Perhaps the most amazing thing is the difference in attitudes between your typical college student and those who come to college after spending a couple years in the military-- the military students are as a whole internally motivated, disciplined, mature, hard working, etc etc.

Hope this works out for Jake, I also have a daughter 17, she's teetering between positive and negative behavior, she's also a 'follower' and suceptible to peer pressure, whether good or bad... I also have my fingers crossed about her...


Terry

It used to be that a "back-hand" or a "kick" did the trick, but nowadays, there are too many people making a living interferring with other peoples child-raising and they call it physical abuse!!

My Dad, bless His heart used to give us kids three warnings and on the third one I/we was/were moving! Whack, then he would calmly sit me/us down and tell me/us why He whacked us AND I/we learned from it...

Not anymore.

Another point is that I HONESTLY figure that onna our Country's lower societal "fixes" was the dropping of the Draft!

I know of several Kids that got their lives put on-track b/c they either got drafted or else!!

It's hard trying to help one that "does his own thing" as he continues to go down the toilet! I know....... Been there and had to go behind bars for a Sunday afternoon visit too many times! And to say, No! you can't move back in b/c YOU disrupt our lives too much b/c YOU don't follow what few rules Mom and Dad set down like the other two do...

Good luck and I pray it will work out.

pdq67

PS., and don't you think that our new, "innovative economy" doesn't have people sitting down and thinking up ways to intrude into our lives while we pay for it b/c those people aren't really doing REAL productive work anymore like was done before everything got out-sourced!! AND it's going to get worse as our Country turns into more of what the rest of the World is like, imho...........

Jim, I'm glad you have not given up on your son Jake. You are a great father. I will pray for his future.

Mike

Jim,
Good choice!! I think this will turn him around. He doesn't know how good he has/had it. We talked for a while about this topic and I am glad to see you are putting your foot down. He is one lucky kid, many people couldn't afford the price of tuition and many more wouldn't pay it if they could. I hope once he "sees the light" he will understand how much you have done for him. It may be 10 years down the road before he understands, but I just hope he can come to you at some point and say "Thanks Dad".

Our number one son has not been down your son’s direct path but he was/is taking a road to looser for sure. He went in the Army, got hurt in boot camp and was medically discharged. I have my thoughts about this and that he got hurt on purpose just to get out. When he got home he found he was welcome and he could heal up. After 9 months and one job I had enough. He was looking into a Tech School and wanted to learn how to do body work etc. We found Nashville Auto Diesel Collage. He thought "WE" would get his student loan (his best buddies parents signed up to pay back their sons) after a fight and you don't care, I can't make those payments and every other try and make you feel guilty crap he signed his own student loan papers. None of his little tricks worked, he was close to breaking mom once or twice but she was strong. He is on his own in Nashville now (less than a month) and seems to be doing pretty well. He was forced to leave our home with nothing that was his, no TV,DVD, play station, only clothes. We bought him some appliances and a few weeks food and work clothes they require.

He is doing allot of class work, which he did not think he was going to do, but says he has scored 100% on his first two tests. He was always a very smart kid and could do well in school if he wanted; he just had to be there. It's all on his dime now. His success is up to him we told him. The loan is his to pay back. I told him he better decide to make the best of his investment and do as well as he could. We will see, it's only been 3 or 4 weeks. There seems to be some change. He has called for money and the simple answer back is no. He has a loan to pay for food and rent, I told him he better spend it wisely. We also told him two weeks ago that "his" bedroom no longer is his bedroom. We have a new office and TV area, with the wife’s hobby area. He asked about his water bed. We said it was given away and he can buy a bed for himself when he gets back. He asked where he was supposed to stay when he came back from school and got a job. We said part of finding that new job also includes finding your own place to live. He was told he will always be welcome, but not to stay.

That has been his problem. Home has been his place of escape from the reality of the real world. Go in his bedroom and sleep, he had no worry about food, heat, A/C, TV or toilet paper. He is now figuring some of that out in a somewhat controlled environment that is only 6 or 7 hours away from home for moms sake. We are going to see him in Feb at the end of the month. A little vacation for us, give him a birthday present, like going out to dinner or something simple. He will not be getting handouts any longer, then it's off to see some of Nashville and he can come along if he wants or does not have schoolwork to do.

It's really hard to do it, and he thinks it's easy for us to do this. He is way off base and we have told him so. Someday he will respect this is what i told him. It might not be for another 25 years but someday he will. Funny thing I was the same way. I went into the USMC and it changed my life forever. I have my mom and stepdad to thank. I never told them thank you until my real dad just passed away 2 weeks ago !!!

Good luck Jim and good luck to your son. Your doing the right thing. Be strong and stay the course. He needs you now more than ever. It seems that we he needs most is for you to do what you doing, love him but let him go those that can help him. I will say that an ouside influance will help. It did on me. Life as he knows it is about to change. It will be bad for him but he will learn to get with the program or get in the best physical shape of his life. He will come around. Those schools don't work for everyone, but I have a feeling since your son is still young, has not been in allot of trouble, still is living at home with his messy room that they will succeed in changing him, his attitude and spirit. He will find an inner streanght, team work and relize that he needs help.

I bet the first thing they cure is the messy room............LOL LOL LOL

Stay strong Jim

Joe

Jim, I'm glad you have not given up on your son Jake. You are a great father. I will pray for his future.

Mike
Absolutely!
These days parents just seem to give up on their kids and kick them out of the house soon as they turn 18, or sooner!. You are a good man and a great father for what you are doing.
I can guarantee you when he comes back (long as he stays away from his old peer pressured friends) he will come back a man!
Good luck to you and the family

We are with you Jim, you are doing the right thing. Prayers for all of you will be felt Im sure.

Jim, Good luck to your son, I know you and your wife have tried everything to make things right for him. I hope this will make him realize how good he had things at home. I think the biggest things most problem kids have trouble with is respect and consequences....Maybe with this controled setting he will learn that. I also have had a troubled teen. She is almost 22 years old now and is getting better, she is now a happy, productive, young adult and is striving to improve. I will say a prayer for Jake, and hope he will return a son you and your wife can be proud of...Mike

Jim,

My prayers are with you and your family. Parenting is never an easy job. One of my friends at my church sent his oldest son to military school just last week. We all love our kids, even when they don't love & appreciate us in return.

I saw a sign in an office of one of my customers one day. It was a quote by Mark Twain. It read: "When I was a lad of fourteen, I thought my father was just a foolish old man. When I turned twenty one, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in the last seven years..."

How true...

Hopefully one day, when your son is a little older he will look back on this time in his life and thank you for your love.

Good luck Jim. That took some courage and I can only imagine how terribly tough it was for you & your wife to make that call and then follow through to where you are at now. It's in his own hands now.

Our prayers are with you and your family Jim. Best of luck, I know these type of decisions are extremely difficult. I have a son that has some issues we're working on as well. I think you're making a wise decision even though he won't.

wow... what a day. 3 hours there in a pea soup fog, all day with paperwork and orientation meetings... Then watching as 30 kids including my oldest con lined up in there "first formation" and marched out the door...

After another 3 hour ride in the fog, this time at night, but with a break for a fabulous steak dinner at the grand geneva resort... I am completely shot.

It is a BIG lift reading the words and good wishes from my friends here. I know this was the right thing to do with Jake, I've been trying to make it happen for 2 years. You see, I was a problem child too, and dropped out of high school at 16. I enlisted in the Navy at 17, and learned the things I'm hoping he will learn.

The school has a picture gallery, today's pics are up here: http://www.shutterfly.com/progal/album.jsp?aid=768a5498cf44c29d80a5 a good shot of the three of us in the bottom row center, img_1939. I can't wait to find one of him in uniform tomorrow!

Thanks again for your support guys!

He may not know it yet, but he has great parents. :)

There are times we must sacrifice to do good. This will be a charactor builder for the both of you.

Prayers do help, especially the day Son realizes what has happened and the good it will do, and he returns to say, "Thank you, Dad."

The sacrifice will then have been worth it. Love conquers all.

This is his last chance...

He'll come around Jim, Even tho you want to beat him with a 2x4 sometimes, don't let him slip away. Whatever it takes, you gotta hang in there.

Jim I think you are doing the right thing. Seventeen years ago I thought I knew alot and was on the wrong path in life. I decided to drop out of college and enlist in the Air Force. I turned out to be the best thing I could have ever done in life. In 3 more years at the ripe old age of 39 I will be able to retire and start another adventure. If it wsn't for the military I can onle imagine where I might be. Thanks for sharing this story and I think you and your wife have made the right decision.

Scott

Well, I'm not if sure military school will help him or not. You can lead a horse to....... One thing is for sure, Jim, you and your wife have done all you can think of doing. You have undoubtedly sacrificed to help him find the right track. Should he find his way in military school, the investment will be well worth it. In many cases, "problem" children do find their way, but only after some very hard lessons. In the few remaining cases, I get to meet them, in later years. I hope it all turns out well for the three of you and some day, your son does come up to you, looks you square in the eye, and says "thanks Dad". Keep us posted.

He may not know it yet, but he has great parents. :)

Absolutely! Super parents. :beers:
Good luck Jim. I'm pulling for the boy.

Our prayers are with you!!!

Greg

Jim look at pic 2015 your in that one also. You all gotta look at pic 2016, this kid has that ohhh sh.. look.

Jim, you are to be commended, so many parents these days just write the kid off, or just flat do not care what happens. More parents need to take the tough stance you did. It would ne interesting to hear what your son thinks in say twenty years. He will be grateful I am sure.

2016?.... oh heck, you mean there's more than one page to these albums? guess I have more pics to look at! That kid was wearing that look ALL day long. There were 27 new students at midterm, and you gotta figure for parents to bring their boys to this place in the middle of the school year, SOMETHING must be going on in ALL cases...

Here's some pics from yesterday, taken in the cafeteria at lunchtime. There's a closeup of Jake on # 2063. Seems to be practicing SITTING at ATTENTION! They don't seem to have put a mark on him yet.
http://www.shutterfly.com/progal/album.jsp?aid=768a5498cf44c348cacb

He did get to email his mother today... went something like this:
jake " Hello, I'm doing good."
mom " what do you thing of it so far?"
Jake: "I'm ok, but it's tough"

Sounds like he's having a great time...lamo!

4x6 picture of your son at military school - $1.50
gas to get him there - $50.00
getting your son back as a real human being - priceless

Just thought I'd throw out an update...
after 2 weeks of whining emails, something seems to have clicked in his lil head last weekend. He now LOVES IT THERE! He's making friends, doing very well in his classes, he's decided the guy who lives on his floor and "keeps an eye on them" is the best.
He's coming home friday night, gotta get a root canal saturday morning, then right back up there. I'll put up a pic of him in his dress grays!

It's funny how we can relate to our peers. Givin half a wit most people see the light. He is most likely being challanged in ways he has never been before and seeing other do it seems to get you going. You eiather conform or excersize allot!! Push ups might have been getting old!!

Joe

Jim, im glad to hear he's making friends and doing well in his classes.

Keep us posted..if i could just get my teens to keep a better track of time..or

at least answear there phones when i call...:mad: .

Sounds good Jim!

Hope it all works out. Keep an eye on him though. My neice, a 20 year old, self centered, little crap joined the Navy last year. Just days before leaving, she was caught DUI (I wasn't happy). later she was inducted and completed her basic training, She was injured in basic and ended up leaving 3 months later. While there, she was totally different. Now that she is home, same old kid. Self centered, self-ish, cocky. Hope it never rubs off of your son.

Environment...thats the ticket! My friends son went through the same thing and after 2 years came out a model human being. Jim I think when your looking back on this years into the future it will be the best investment that you could have made!

Good for you Jim! He will thank you one day for it! Hope it keeps him on the straight and narrow ;)

Dano:waving:

So I picked the boy up at 3:00 yesterday. His mom was way glad to see him! We took him out to dinner, then over to the local taco bell where this girl he knows works. We made him stay in uniform! He was scamming for us to let him "loose" the whole time, but his mom and I held firm. He was going no where! Had a bit of a setback when we finally let him out of his uniform around 8:30, he then decided he didn't like the place and was never going back. We managed to talk it out OK.

After that, he joined me working on the motor, and helped torque the heads, prime the oil system, and put the valve train back together. This, to me, was HUGE! He has talked a lot about wanting to learn about cars, and been told "your Dad know it, and he's out there almost every night wrenching on that thing, if you want to learn, go on out there!" But, until last night, all he ever did was talk about it. Well, last night, me and my boy put that motor together, and "it was good."

I gotta say, for the first time in a LONG time, I'm sooo proud of my son!
http://www.camaros.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=384&d=1139667775
http://www.camaros.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=385&d=1139667788http://www.camaros.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=386&d=1139667797

That's great Jim, I'll pray it only gets better:thumbsup:

Jim, that's impressive, like you say your son joining you on the engine project is HUGE, change comes slowly but actions like that are really something to encourage you. I can't wait for the 6 month and 1 year update, you'll see his attitude get better and better. I think his reaction that 'he hates the place and is never going back' is normal, part of him is still resisting letting go of past bad behavior, which although it was bad, was familiar to him.

Love the pics by the way!

Terry M.

I know it seems like a battle, it is. You have to fight for your kids and if that means doing something to protect them that is going to make you not cool or make them hate you then so be it. You have to play defense. Our kids are constantly under attack. If we don't fight for them then who will?

Nobody said being a parent was easy, but really I had no idea it was going to be like this. Kids, make you laugh, make you cry but truly you haven't lived until you have had kids.

Well, it's midnite and I'm just back from dropping him off... Seems a girl we let him hook up with today (here at home) brought some pot, and he got wasted and decided he didn't want to go back. About 3 when I tried to get him in the car, he took off thru the woods. Filed a missing persons report at 4, found him at 6, got him back in the car heading north by 6:30. After whining at me for over 2 hours, he finally settled down. By the time we got into Wisconsin he was good with going back (also nolonger high, I presume)

I tried real hard to convince his mother it was all a scam, and if he needed a dentist, they do have them in the Cheese State... but Dad's are never right, ya know. Was just too damned soon for him to be home.

Anyway, all's well that ends well, for now. Just can't wait for spring break (eeeek!!!!)

The girl sounds like a class act. Just leave him there Jim, it will be all right.

My son turns 13 today, and I am finding that raising kids is tough work.
He's actually a good kid, but tries my patience quite a bit. I am willing to take any and al advice on these approaching teen years guys!

Good Luck Jim.

I tried real hard to convince his mother it was all a scam, and if he needed a dentist, they do have them in the Cheese State... but Dad's are never right, ya know. Was just too damned soon for him to be home.
It's been my experience that mothers try to protect their children from the world and fathers try to prepare them to live in it. You're doing the right thing, even if (it seems) you have equivocal support.

sounds like the visit was as much a learning lesson for you as for him. I can only imagine.
mine turns 18 in april. only thing he has gotten hooked on is golf. I'm afraid it's terminal.......the only time he doesn't have a club in his hand is when he's sleeping, working or at school.
scary.....we may need intervention

ss

It's been my experience that mothers try to protect their children from the world and fathers try to prepare them to live in it. You're doing the right thing, even if (it seems) you have equivocal support.

I "Hope" his mother learned a valuable lesson this weekend.

I "Hope" his mother learned a valuable lesson this weekend.


Funny how it is so hard to get both the wives and the kids to realize we aren't idiots isn't it, and for them to both admit it at the same time is almost impossible.

I can guarantee you when he comes back (long as he stays away from his old peer pressured friends) he will come back a man!
Good luck to you and the family
It's like I said keep him away from his peer pressure friends....
My dad used to give me stiff warnings about a group of guys I was hanging with, well I didn't listen, one day we all got arrested for Malicious Destruction of property over $1000 (felony)....I must say I got my a$$ kicked at the police station (the cops turned there heads while dad was unleashing on me) I never talked to my old friends again.