* block mid 70's 350 4 bolt
* crank 283 sj
* rods scat 6.0 bushed
*pistons kb 231 hyperutectic 11.2 comp
*.039 composite head gasket
*oil pump stock with z28 spring
*moroso 7 qt pan
* compcam 292h magnum hyd fat tappet
*afr 180 heads milled to 58cc
*rev kit
*comp pro magnum roller 1.52 rockers
*edelbrock rpm air gap
*4979 holley 750 db with proform main body
*pertronix race hei with msd wires and msd 6al box
*moroso alum water pump
* deep groove pulley
this is going into a daily driven 67 camaro that weighs around 2650 with a 4 speed super t10 2:88 first this is going to be all blueprinted and the cam degreed in at 4' advance any suggestions or advice my goal is at least 425 peaking around 7000 to 7500 rpm and it has no power brakes, ac, steering thanks for all the help

The 3.000" stroke out of a 283 is correct but not for a 350 block as the journals are the wrong (under ) size. The crank will rattle around in the saddles. You will need an early 327 or an aftermarket crank.

Larger Dave

Try a 1966 327 block.

And also, you will need a solid lifter cam to be able to rpm like you want, imho.

I'm gathering up the parts now to build another junk 291 or 301 type motor myself like I had waay back then. But this time, I'm shifting it above 8,000 not between 7 and 7500 rpm like back then.

Love these little, high rpm motor's!!

I bought a cheap solid cam from PAW that they say is a 264/246, 108/108, .500" net lift with 1.6 ratio rockers! But I figure it is really 280/246 after checking both Clevite's and Elgin's spec's, so I figure 8+ out of it easy!!

Heck, my old -097 Duntov would do 7+ up until my points bounced....

pdq67

The hydrallic flat tappet will not take that kind of rpm. Get a solid lifter cam as pdq67 stated. A solid roller would be nice though:thumbsup:.

* block mid 70's 350 4 bolt
* crank 283 sj
* rods scat 6.0 bushed
*pistons kb 231 hyperutectic 11.2 comp
*.039 composite head gasket
*oil pump stock with z28 spring
*moroso 7 qt pan
* compcam 292h magnum hyd fat tappet
*afr 180 heads milled to 58cc
*rev kit
*comp pro magnum roller 1.52 rockers
*edelbrock rpm air gap
*4979 holley 750 db with proform main body
*pertronix race hei with msd wires and msd 6al box
*moroso alum water pump
* deep groove pulley
this is going into a daily driven 67 camaro that weighs around 2650 with a 4 speed super t10 2:88 first this is going to be all blueprinted and the cam degreed in at 4' advance any suggestions or advice my goal is at least 425 peaking around 7000 to 7500 rpm and it has no power brakes, ac, steering thanks for all the help

Your pistons will be about .036" out of the hole at the least, smashing into your AFR180's with .003" quench. Your compression will be 10.7:1 with the 58cc heads. If you get the quench down to a manageable .035" your compression will drop to 9.8:1. I wouldn't use a rev kit with a hydraulic cam, you might want to investigate a solid cam.
You've totally neglected the third leg of Smokey's power triangle...

Guys,

I was just thumbing through my old copy of HPBooks "How to Hotrod Small-Block Chevys" and I had forgotten all the wealth of 302 motor info in it from a historical standpoint!

They sure got those little motors to cook back then..

It's amazing how much power they got out of a .030" over, 283 motor too!!

pdq67

sorry guys i should have checked my post i 'm using spacer bearings and milling the pistons for they will not hit the heads i know these piston are for use with a 5.94 rod in a 302, but i plan on using the 6 in rod and milling the tops of the pistons along with decking. So what cam would you recommand i dont want to go with a 30 30 when there are so many better cams out there as far as lobe design and so on thaNKS AGAIN

Go to the solid profile or roller profile that matches your hydraulic profile. The solid I think is a 294S (not sure) but if you need the info, I got the comp master cat. I think it's on their website though.

sorry guys i should have checked my post i 'm using spacer bearings and milling the pistons for they will not hit the heads i know these piston are for use with a 5.94 rod in a 302, but i plan on using the 6 in rod and milling the tops of the pistons along with decking. So what cam would you recommand i dont want to go with a 30 30 when there are so many better cams out there as far as lobe design and so on thaNKS AGAIN

Your 6" rods are .060" longer than the 5.94" rod meaning that the 6" rod will push the whole piston past the deck, not just the dome. The deck of the piston will be way out of the hole.

Also, I thought the KB`s were for a 5.7" rod? I`m not sure about that one.

Spacer bearings to fit a sj crank in a lj block? never heard of these. Thats alot of space to take up, not sure I would want to use spacers in a high rpm motor.

An Isky like a Z-27 or Z-30 solid IF you are going to actually be at 11+ CR.!!

It will scream!

Older cams, but still thumpers in my book!

Or try UDHarold's cam list that I recently posted here.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71921

Harold has made some real winners in my book as well as Isky!

If you don't turn it up, I will post it tonight after work again.

pdq67

Get the mechanics of the bottom end worked out first, then worry about the cam.

Pistons out of the hole more than about .010" is a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with 5.94" rods -- if that's what the pistons are made for then just use 5.94" rods.

Check your combo by taking 1/2 of the stroke + rod length + compression height. GM blocks are only a max of 9.025" tall.

Main bearing diameters.

Chevy made 3 different main bearing sizes. small, large and 400. The 283 used a small journal crank, your 350 block takes a large journal crank.

As previously stated noone makes a spacer bearing to put a small journal crank in a large journal block. You need a small journal 4" bore block (I believe pre '68).

Compression ratio.

You want this motor to run right about 10.8:1 with the aluminum heads IMO. To do that you either need to cut the heads down to about 50cc and use a flat top piston. The other route is a dome and larger chamber which may not work with your small chamber AFR heads.

Cam.

I would use a cam that is similar to the original 30-30 cam. Solid FT with modern lobes. Something like the Comp XS282S -- 244/252 @ .050, .520/.540" lift, 110* LSA. That cam would work with pump premium and the motor would sing to 7000 RPM with close to 500 HP.

ok again you can fit the sj crank into the lj block by using spacer bearing heres to prove ithttp://www.raceeng.com/ click on bearings . second where can i find a flat top with at least 11to1 at 58cc do i need custom ones made i will use a 5.7 rod if i have to but i don't want to go over $500. third i don't want to use a solid cam because i don't have the time to adjust the valves allthe time. this car will be driven 7 days a week at least 550 miles a week.i want that compression at 58 because these heads can only be milled to 56 and i want to save some if something happens

With a 58cc head about the best you'll do with a flat-top piston is 9.9:1. If you use a 49cc head 11:1 becomes relatively easy. Your next problem is finding a small-journal rod that will mate up with your piston. There are various lengths available from manufacturers like Eagle.

Why not just build a much easier and more powerful 327? What do you do to a daily driven Camaro to get the weight down to 2650#?

hmmm.... you're "type of usage" and existing parts list don't really seem to point toward a small displacement high rpm motor...somehow a 7500 rpm, hydrualic cam small inch daily driver seems to be quite a contradiction.

Why not just build a 383?

ok again you can fit the sj crank into the lj block by using spacer bearing heres to prove ithttp://www.raceeng.com/ click on bearings .

You better go back and read that. it says to adapt lj rods onto a sj crank, not sj crank into lj block. The main spacers they do sell are for a 350 crank nto a 400 main.

I agree with Jim M -- high winding 302 builds are more of a novelty type thing these days, not a daily driver build. I agree that a 383 would be a much better choice if it is really driven that often.

I still think some of the funniest posts are in the 'Performance' forum v.s. 'Bench Racing'... ;)

Just a quick question ? Was the weight of your car a typo that seems very light..

I know 69 's are heavy compared to a 67/68 mine weighs 3440

69 Rally sport Z

ok again you can fit the sj crank into the lj block by using spacer bearing heres to prove ithttp://www.raceeng.com/ click on bearings . second where can i find a flat top with at least 11to1 at 58cc do i need custom ones made i will use a 5.7 rod if i have to but i don't want to go over $500. third i don't want to use a solid cam because i don't have the time to adjust the valves allthe time. this car will be driven 7 days a week at least 550 miles a week.i want that compression at 58 because these heads can only be milled to 56 and i want to save some if something happens

I can't possibly see how your gonna be able to spin this motor to 7-grand+ with that cam set-up.

If you want to play,you got to pay..and that means an occasional valve adjustment...no biggie.

I just recently removed my DZ302 and replaced it with a full-forged,solid roller cam 11 to 1 383 stroker and here are the final dyno numbers:

554.3 HP @ 6600 RPM
497.8 FT LBS/Torque @ 5100 RPM

Makes 451 FT LBS/Torque @ 3000 RPM.

Let's think about this for a bit since you have to daily drive your motor!

Either install the old -097 Duntov solid cam or the -178, 330/350/360hp/350 solid cam and I can say that you won't have to worry about lashing it but only like every third oil change!! (10,000+ miles or so!!!).....

Been there, done that with my old -097 Duntov solid cam!! For several years as my ONLY daily driver!!

And as for a stroker 380+ SB, I now have my 496 BB to contend with....

90 pound foot more torque at only 4500 rpm!!

pdq67

Guys,

Back again b/c of what's below!!

Try the old book by John Michelsen TOO titled, "Chevy Performance - Volume 1, The SB Chevy Engines"....

pdq67


-----------------------------------------------------------------
"I was just thumbing through my old copy of HPBooks "How to Hotrod Small-Block Chevys" and I had forgotten all the wealth of 302 motor info in it from a historical standpoint!

They sure got those little motors to cook back then..

It's amazing how much power they got out of a .030" over, 283 motor too!!"

I wanted to bring this one back to the top...Clevite makes a special bearing that adapts a SJ crank to a LJ block - it's part number MS1110H. They're almost $180 but cheaper than a LJ 302 crank that likely needs work before it can be used.

I'm using a really cherry small journal 3" stroke crank to build my original 302. Will have to use SJ rods, but it should otherwise drop right into place. Just FYI for those of you who were unaware that these bearings existed (I know I was!)

I'm still loking for 6.25" long SJ rods???????????????

And I'm not talking about $1200/set jobbers here...

pdq67

Why not build a LT1 350/360 you have the block, it's no to exotic or as has been posted step up to a 383. With all the machine work and special parts you have involved in the 302 one mishap and your back to the machine shop with a pocket full of money and parts 302's are great for drag racing but not much to drive daily. I built a Camaro around 4:88 gears and a 4sp and a 355 to drive on the street and drag race occasionally. Needless to say after a year and very little drag racing, it was a pain in the a$$ on the street. A gear change would have been easy, but then I'd had to change the 570 lift cam and the tall victor Jr. and the Holley with the shaved choke horn etc etc. etc. In the end think about what your going to be doing before you start spending your cash.

I will say it again!!

A stock 302 is a hoot with 3.73's or 4.10's!!

I would tho install -142 valve springs!!

pdq67

I'm still loking for 6.25" long SJ rods???????????????

And I'm not talking about $1200/set jobbers here...

pdq67


Scat has a set of 4340 H beam capscrew rods in 6.20 with a 2.0" pin diameter.

RPO72 is right they do make spacer bearings to install a medium journal crank in a 400 block AND another spacer bearing to install a small journal crank into a medium journal block.

TRW MS3063CP is the part number for the 350 crank into a 400. TRW also makes the bearing to install the small journal crank into a 350 block. I just saw this part number last week, unfortunately I'm in Georgia until March so I don't have access to my books.

It's possible the bearing is no longer manufactured, but it was available a few years ago.

PDQ you're right on the hoot! AND it a REAL hoot with 4.88 gears, 140 solid cam and 12.5:1, but then that isn't really a good daily driver unless you're just going a few houses down to work with it every day! Still a blast to drive though.

DZ1,

Not sure why some folks are trying to get you to build something different than your original post. After owning a DZ for 6 months now. I do not blame you one bit for building a stout little 302 to drive daily. I was in search for a nice BB Camaro before I drove the Z with a DZ motor. WOW! is about all I can say....

Good luck on your build!!!!!

I'm still loking for 6.25" long SJ rods???????????????

And I'm not talking about $1200/set jobbers here...

pdq67

Eagle -

CRS6250SLW - 6.250" lightweight, small journal, 555g - $625.33

http://www.eaglerod.com/products/Chevy/small%20block/SBC%20rods.html

Thanks guys for the rod info..

pdq67

And for what its worth, childs-albert also makes bearing spacers to put the small journal 283 crank in a 350 block. Cost? Around $300 for them:noway: