Lunati #00017 Cam in SBC 350?? [Archive] - Team Camaro Tech

: Lunati #00017 Cam in SBC 350??


Sid69Z's
Jan 31st, 06, 11:11 PM
I've been reading until my eye's are crossed about all the different cam suggestions for different motors. I haven't yet ran across any posts addressing a bone stock 350 crate engine.

Here's what I have:

GM crate engine #10067353, 260hp, 4-bolt main, 8.5:1 comp, iron 76cc heads (1.94" int/1.5" exh. valves). Edelbrock performer intake, Holley 600cfm, Hooker #2451 headers w/2 1/2" exhaust. Will be going in '69 Camaro, M-20 or 21, 3.73 posi.

I'm wanting to get as close to 300hp as possible with a lopey/rough idle. Actually the lopey idle is probably slightly more important to me than the HP. GM says a .460" lift is the most I can go with these heads and I will not be altering the heads.

Lunati recommends their #00017. Specs are .460/.460 lift, 224/224 dur., 112/108 lobe sep. Has anyone used this cam in a stock motor & how do you like it??

I would use the GM L-89 #962 cam but it just idles tooo smooth for me. Also let me stress that I will not be doing any other work to the engine. It only has 300 miles on it and this will be a cam/lifter swap only. I just want it to be a nice street cruiser with a lopey idle.

Any other suggestions are very welcomed!!!!

travis
Feb 1st, 06, 06:05 AM
You don't have enough compression to make a 224@.050 cam work very well. Low compression engines with bigger cams tend to have a flat, dull lope to them...not "good" or "aggressive" sounding at all. The L-82 cam is pretty smooth...and the lunati cam you selected idles just barely rougher. You should look at the Crane 274H06...your at the bottom edge of compression to run it but it will work, and it sounds pretty dang nice in a 350. It is 218/218@.050, .450/.450 lift, 106 lsa. It also will complement the rest of your combo nicely.

pdq67
Feb 1st, 06, 06:20 AM
Ditto travis!

The old crane 274H06!

And it is TOO big imho b/c it really needs to be a 260 or 264H06 at 8.5 to 1 CR.!!

Imho, to get cackle in a LOW compressioned motor AND still run good up to ONLY about 45 to MAYBE 5,000 rpm, you need a SOLID lifter cam like this:

260/210, 104/108, .450"/.450" lift. You notice the real close LCA b/c of the small advertised duration..... That's what helps to create the cackle!!

AND it will still be a powerful GRUNT CAM!!

Check Isky's little-bitty Hy-cams out here too..............................

pdq67

JimM
Feb 1st, 06, 06:51 AM
Somehow I feel a need to rave this morning...perhaps because #1 son managed to scrounge a cel phone last night and whine to his mom for half an hours... therefore she is completely stress out and was unable to sleep... of course when mom's not happy, I'm not happy.

Buy anyway...

The camshaft is the heart and soul of your engine. It defines the powerband and determines the driveability of the car. It is part of a matched system that must include airflow, compression ration and available fuel octane, as well as gearing and intended use.

Putting too much cam in a low compresstion engine will make you unhappy. You'll end up with a motor that has no low rpm or midrange manners because the dcr is too low, and no high rpm power because it won't move enough air.

If you want it to sound nasty at idle, retard the timing or pull off a spark plug wire... There's simply too much at stake to choose a camshaft based on what the motor might "sound like" at idle!

Sid69Z's
Feb 1st, 06, 10:21 AM
Thanks guy's, I will check into those! I guess another option would be to put thinner head gaskets on it? How much compression could I gain and would it be enough to change the cam choice?

I don't want to get into any machining but I would certianly consider a gasket swap if it would help??

Again, not looking to build a fast motor....just want to bring out all that's there before I put it in the car!

Thanks again :thumbsup:

Sid69Z's
Feb 7th, 06, 07:14 PM
Well after talking to & emailing several "tech support" folks, here's what I've come up with.....

GM Performance Tech says that this engine comes with a .028" head gasket and that I can use FelPro #1094 (http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=fel-1094&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp) .015" coated head gasket (shim) to help raise the compression. The calculator I used showed that this should raise the compression from 8.5:1 up to 8.8:1.

This would put me in range for the Crane 274 H06. If I don't change gaskets & leave the compression @ 8.5:1, then Crane suggest using their 272 H10 (#100052) which has 116/116 dur @.50", .454/.454 lift, 110 lsa.

So I guess my question is, do y'all think the Felpro coated .015" shim will seal on this motor? The engine is virtually brand new with about 300 miles on it. Not much time for any warpage??

TexasPerfProd
Feb 7th, 06, 11:20 PM
Sid these guys are telling you right. A 8. something to 1 motor is not going to have a lot of sound to it IMO. Sounds more like its running under water. The cams that make the sounds you want to hear require at least 9.0 and I prefer 9.5 and up. There just isn't anything there to keep the engine strong in the lower rpms and give you that sound. pdq has suggested about the best shot at getting that sound and still keeping the motor from feeling down on power off idle. You should have no problem with the FelPro gaskets.

pdq67
Feb 8th, 06, 07:46 PM
I think here, I think the best cam for your application that is still just a shelf cam is an Isky 262 Supercam on 108 centers!!

(Anybody else know of any small 258/260/262/264 hy-cams ground on a 104 or a 106 center??..... Roundy-round cams are but they are usually BIG buggers!!)..........

BUT I have no idea how it will cackle?? BUT I figure it WILL cackle some....

As for myself, if it was my motor, I would e-bay the heads and pick up a set of 64 cc double-hump OR new 64/67 cc aftermarket ones or a set of 64 Vortecs along with the Fel-pro #1094 shim headgaskets so that I would gain enough compression to run a decent cam!

Then the motor would produce some GOOD power!!

AND I realize this is HARD to do to a NEW MOTOR!!

pdq67

PS., and fwiw, I too, have said to pull a plug wire and lug her around for THAT SOUND!! Then sneek off and put it back on and drive home later running fine... He, He!!

travis
Feb 8th, 06, 08:30 PM
Well after talking to & emailing several "tech support" folks, here's what I've come up with.....

GM Performance Tech says that this engine comes with a .028" head gasket and that I can use FelPro #1094 (http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=fel-1094&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp) .015" coated head gasket (shim) to help raise the compression. The calculator I used showed that this should raise the compression from 8.5:1 up to 8.8:1.

This would put me in range for the Crane 274 H06. If I don't change gaskets & leave the compression @ 8.5:1, then Crane suggest using their 272 H10 (#100052) which has 116/116 dur @.50", .454/.454 lift, 110 lsa.

So I guess my question is, do y'all think the Felpro coated .015" shim will seal on this motor? The engine is virtually brand new with about 300 miles on it. Not much time for any warpage??

Unfortunately, this is making the assumption that the engine is truly 8.5-1, which they are not. They are closer to about 8.1-1 to 8.2-1, once you take production tolerances into account. If your going to go to the trouble of swapping head gaskets, then IMO the cheapest bang for the buck would be to have them milled about .020 to .030, and use a fel-pro 1094 head gasket. This will get you up about 8.7-1 or so. This would also be an excellent opportunity to do some mild porting on the heads.

Sid69Z's
Feb 9th, 06, 10:17 AM
Thanks for the suggestions!!

Travis.....believe it or not, I just got off the phone with a local machine shop getting a price on resurfacing!! Definatly the cheapest/easiest compression gain to be had.

One thing I just realized that I failed to say is, I already have an extremely lopey torque monster (SB 400) that can more than satisfy any of my needs! That's probably the biggest reason I don't want to start the "snowball" effect on this motor.......I really don't "need" it. I just want it to be a solid/dependable engine with a good sound. If it were the only one I had, I would go a different direction for sure. Also, I'm not sure I'm gonna keep it when the car is finished. If the money's right, I might move it and start on another......so that's another reason I'm trying to keep the investment down without sacrificing getting all that's there out of it......just in case!

I have also kicked around the idea of just putting in the cam GM uses in the 290hp version and forget about the lopey idle. The only thing stopping me from that is knowing it could have been better with minimal investment......do I hear a snowball starting to roll???;)

I have learned a lot on this thread about low compression engines! I have built several engines over the years but all of them were at least 9.5:1 or more, so it was never an issue. This engine became available, I knew it's history and the price was right, so I jumped. Looking back, I think when I do it again, I'll stay away from "low compression"!!

Thank you all for the insight!! It's been very helpful :thumbsup:

badcowboy
Jul 4th, 08, 02:35 PM
I am in the same boat. Want the car to sound bad yet get some mileage, not have to spend all the money much less time to change all the parts around just to drive down the street.

I am working on 77 Impala w 350 low compression engine 8:5:1 . Cheapest way is go to the local pull apart and get some 96 / up vortet Chevy 350 heads they flow better and are 64 cc chamber so you will get about 9:5:1 or little more. I got mine for $125 or so from a local yard. You may also need the newer intake which can be bought on ebay cheap. Also you can't go over 480 lift cam without work, but what daily driver needs a cam that big. I got all the parts a while back for another crate engine I wanted to soup up but is just sitting, so may do on this car. Looking at the Crane 22h10 or most likey the comp 274 HO6 which has a lower lift which is better for stock and torgue w less RPMs'. THE LSA number around 107 is where the idle is choppy. Anything over 460 lift the cam looses its street ability and needs more mods to the engine and gears. But you need some compression to pull this loping effect off and besides that more compression more horsepower.

There also is a utube video a a Nova w this cam only a few secs of idle can be heard. The guys claims it was a nice cam for street when I asked him. This video may not work just google Nova Burn out or that came number 274 HO6

YouTube - Nova Burnout


Took me a big of research ton find this all as no one tells all this.

Like these new cheater cams sound big and bad but not lol. Shh

http://www.customclassictrucks.com/techarticles/0405cct_vortec_cylinder_heads_small_block_chevy/index.html
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Discus/messages/653/164.html
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/cam-will-idle-like-no-other-but-no-slouch-low-76850.html
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/carcraft325hp305.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/0611_chpp_used_auto_performance_parts/impersonator.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/0611_chpp_used_auto_performance_parts/impersonator.html

badcowboy
Jul 4th, 08, 02:37 PM
I am in the same boat. Want the car to sound bad yet get some mileage, not have to spend all the money much less time to change all the parts around just to drive down the street.

I am working on 77 Impala 2 door w 350 low compression engine 8:5:1 that I am fixing to sell at this time. Cheapest way is go to the local pull apart and get some 96 / up vortec Chevy 350 heads they flow better and are 64 cc chamber so you will get about 9:5:1 or little more. I got mine for $125 or so from a local yard. You may also need the newer intake which can be bought on ebay cheap. Also you can't go over 480 lift cam without work, but what daily driver needs a cam that big. I got all the parts a while back for another crate engine I wanted to soup up but is just sitting, so may do on this car. Looking at the Crane 22h10 or most likey the comp 274 HO6 which has a lower lift which is better for stock and torgue w less RPMs'. THE LSA number around 107 is where the idle is choppy. Anything over 460 lift the cam looses its street ability and needs more mods to the engine and gears. But you need some compression to pull this loping effect off and besides that more compression more horsepower.

There also is a utube video a a Nova w this cam only a few secs of idle can be heard. The guys claims it was a nice cam for street when I asked him.

YouTube - Nova Burnout


Took me a big of research ton find this all as no one tells all this.

Like these new cheater cams sound big and bad but not lol. Shh

http://www.customclassictrucks.com/techarticles/0405cct_vortec_cylinder_heads_small_block_chevy/index.html
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Discus/messages/653/164.html
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/cam-will-idle-like-no-other-but-no-slouch-low-76850.html
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/carcraft325hp305.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/0611_chpp_used_auto_performance_parts/impersonator.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/0611_chpp_used_auto_performance_parts/impersonator.html