This car has original window sticker (laminated) and build sheet with 9796 COPO on both. I am told it has all original motor tranny, everything from carb to rearend is original interior untouched, all metal is orginal. Was wondering if anyone could give me some help on decoding it when I get there. I am also wondering if anyone knows where to find a picture of a original window sticker of a 1970 1/2 z/28 with the copo code on it or a build sheet w/ the 9796 code on it. any advise would be great too. thanks

Welcome to one of the top two 1st gen Camaro websites. Team member from the gitgo.


http://www.nastyz28.com/decode.html
Here it is from the definitive 2nd gen Camaro website.

thanks, anything specific to the copo?

Are you talking about 2 different cars? Copo Camaros were done in the 1969 model year. No such thing as a Z/28 COPO, that I am aware of. This post will get some attention from the real experts I think. For sure get some pictures and try to post them.

1970 1/2 there is a copo Z28 that was the begining of the 3 peice tall spoiler and front spoiler avilable under option code (copo 9796) begining in late april of 1970 aprox 500 made claimed by gm to satisfy SCCA racing regulation but it is suspected alot less were made and the only way to prove it is a true copo as far as I know is with the build sheet or window sticker.

Interesting.

Yea its just a spoiler thing.

So the one-piece rear spoiler was standard? Took a COPO to get a 3-piece spoiler?

I believe the COPO 9796 would not be on the invoice but it is on the buildsheet for certain.

The place to find out everything you ever wanted to know about 70 COPO's and 10x more than you'll need to know is www.nastyz28.com. Post your question in the original drivetrain section.

You might also ask your question on the www.yenko.net site. Quite a few of those guys either have these cars or know extensive info about them.

A couple of threads that will interest you: Both contain tips on id'ing a real COPO spoiler car.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/171263/page/1/fpart/1/vc/1

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/156406/page/1/fpart/1/vc/1

I was wondering if anyone knows a website to decode a build sheet? I have a 1970 1/2 camaro rs and down on the build sheet it saids rs etc 350 ci but ib the start motor box #32 it saids 427??? can anyone tell me what that means? thanks

Mikala, post at www.nastyz28.com They will know.

I thought both spoilers were options. No COPOs, at least in the 1st gen sense of the 'word'.

Mikala, post at www.nastyz28.com They will know.

I thought both spoilers were options. No COPOs, at least in the 1st gen sense of the 'word'.

for 1970, the one piece spoiler was standard, all cars ordered with a spoiler got them.

As stated earlier, there was the start of the 3 piece spoiler availability and it WAS an OPTION, but it took a COPO order to get one ... and it included the front spoiler as well

Starting in 1971 the one piece spoiler was STANDARD (as it was in 70) on the Z28 and the RPO D80 3 piece spoiler was optional and included the front spoiler

rare original paint 70 z28 with COPO spoiler package and stripe delete:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/JimRohn/71z/70zcopoblkasm.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/JimRohn/71z/70zcopoblkbsm.jpg

Thanks Jim, didn't realize hoops were needed to be jumped through to get that.

Just keep in mind that cop cars, taxi cabs and almost anything fleet was COPO ordered. The fact that in '69 they used the COPO for performance options is why the name COPO sticks and has meaning. I really like the 3 piece spoiler and Jim's example is a really sweat one. It's cool trivia to know the spoiler was acquired through the COPO process but the spoiler was just a bolt an option that wasn't on the order form.

I would hate to see a spoiler put a 1970 300hp 350 into the same ranks with a '69 ZL1 or other factory 427 car because they are both COPO's...

The Larger 3 Piece Rear Spoiler and Chin Spoiler was introduced by GM in approximately March 70 to make the Camaro more competitive under TransAM Rules. Any Model of Camaro after that date could be ordered with this Spoiler Option. Previous Camaros owners could simply go to the GM Dealer and order the new Spoilers and bolt them on. Other then having the original built sheet as an indication to whether the car came from the factory with this so called COPO Option is to check the Rear Fender Spoiler mounting Holes. If they are not perfectly round and neat the COPO Spoiler was probably ordered from a Dealer and bolted on. I'm the 2nd owner of this 70Z and have know the car since 71 and it always had the COPO Spoilers. Because the Holes in the rear quarters are not perfect I suspect they where Dealer Items. Whether the car can be considered COPO is a matter of individuality in my opinion - LOL

Here's a PIC of the car today:

http://www.camaroforums.com/upfiles/4815/C7CC003C60914D30BBDD6A6033639D42.jpg

http://www.camaroforums.com/upfiles/4815/35CADC5EF57F40E18597BD2ACCCA4AC6.jpg

http://www.camaroforums.com/upfiles/4949/863826CF0CD4453290575332301354E4.jpg

The Grill is large egg crate 71 and in my opinion stronger and looks better then the 70 grill. I still have the original. NOTE the Hide-away Wiper Option. Other Options were White Stripes, Sport Mirrors, Instrument Cluster, Floor Console, M21 and 4.10:1 12 Bolt Posi which is very rare. In 75 I was fascinated with Baldwin Motion and sold the 350 LT1 and put in a 454 out of a 73 Laguna El Camino. Over the years the 454 has been bored .030" Forged rotating assembly, oversize Manley Valves Jomar Girdle, Mechanical Roller, Donovan Gear Drive ... etc etc producing approx 620 Hp @ 6000rpm and 637 ftlbs of torque at 4500rpm and thats on pump gas without NOS. A fire extinguisher resides in place of the cheap floor console and Connley Leathers from a BMW replaced the original and uncomfortable Buckets. The Original Rims just could not take the power so I replaced them with Vette Rally 15 X 8 on front, 15 X 10 on the Rear and run BF COMP T/A's. Steel rims are strong and much cheaper then dangerous after market rims that break if you have to jump a curb. The Old School Flares on the rear quarter keeps the car Legal as rubber can not extend beyond the skin of the car.

The COPO thing of any year does not intimidate me :o))

By the way, I notice like my car the "CAMARO made by Chevrolet" Badge is missing on the trunk lid of that elegant 70Z COPO. Mine is in the glove box just never got around mounting it after paint.

In my opinion the 70Z and BB/SS Camaros are the Ultimate Muscle Car as it is the accumulated product of years of GM Performance Engineering with a Shell Designed Specifically for Racing. Ist Gen owners must envy us because there simply is little to modify or fix to make this car a Winner.

Just keep in mind that cop cars, taxi cabs and almost anything fleet was COPO ordered. The fact that in '69 they used the COPO for performance options is why the name COPO sticks and has meaning. I really like the 3 piece spoiler and Jim's example is a really sweat one. It's cool trivia to know the spoiler was acquired through the COPO process but the spoiler was just a bolt an option that wasn't on the order form.

I would hate to see a spoiler put a 1970 300hp 350 into the same ranks with a '69 ZL1 or other factory 427 car because they are both COPO's...that is kind of what I meant.

Just keep in mind that cop cars, taxi cabs and almost anything fleet was COPO ordered. The fact that in '69 they used the COPO for performance options is why the name COPO sticks and has meaning. I really like the 3 piece spoiler and Jim's example is a really sweat one. It's cool trivia to know the spoiler was acquired through the COPO process but the spoiler was just a bolt an option that wasn't on the order form.

I would hate to see a spoiler put a 1970 300hp 350 into the same ranks with a '69 ZL1 or other factory 427 car because they are both COPO's...

Well put.

They are worth more than a std 70Z... mainly because it was a "race" thing... anything having to do with T/A racing in the early days seems to bring more money... apparently the Chev brass parked a few big spoiler cars in a parking lot at a T/A race in 70 so the officials would beleive that the big spoiler (which added alot of downforce to the rear of the cars at speed) was available and wide spread...

snip ...
The Grill is large egg crate 71 and in my opinion stronger and looks better then the 70 grill. I still have the original. snip ...

more widely known as a 72 or 73 grille, the 71 grille was identical to the 70 ...

In my opinion the 70Z and BB/SS Camaros are the Ultimate Muscle Car as it is the accumulated product of years of GM Performance Engineering with a Shell Designed Specifically for Racing. Ist Gen owners must envy us because there simply is little to modify or fix to make this car a Winner.

Are 70s Camaros muscle cars or pony cars?

I wouldnt say they envy you, appreciate is a more accurate word. Most are fully aware of the 1st gens design limitations and either accept them or modify them. I accept the difference and due to nostalgia prefer not to change a thing. I do imagine following generations envy 1st gen owners styling since following generations were so much more modern looking. New cars such as the Mustang and Camaro seek to capture that nostalgia however we first gen owners already have that in spades. :thumbsup:

Tim: I Double your Spades - LOL

I've been pondering a statement from a staunch 1st Gen member that questioned whether a 2nd GEN was a Muscle car or a Pony Car. With out a Doubt the 70 Camaro was a Muscle Car: "PERIOD". Nothing could touch the Camaro L78 (402cu) SS or the 350cu 360Hp including HEMI CUDA unless that Dodge guy could keep tinfoil together. The 70 Camaro's are the KING of MUSCLE CARS because they shot down the BEST and were only made for 1/2 a Year. I saw them race.

The ONLY thing GM did not do was put a LS 6 in the 70 Camaro. They left that up to YOU. If you could not do it hire Baldwin or Nicky. LOOKING at my 70 Z28 do you think I'm worried about a HEMI CUDA.

:secret: I'm a Camaro fan thru and thru but now you're making me l:) Ron.

JMO but no Camaro was ever a muscle car. Muscle cars are big clumsy beasts that only went fast in a straight line. Camaros are pony cars, they were lighter, went around corners well and could be optioned with big cubes to give muscle cars a run for their money. I guess because they co-existed during the muscle car error peoples egos push them to calling anything with a big block a muscle car!

If that didn't get you fired up, why do some 2nd gen guys get so hung up on the 1/2 yr thing? Chevy never billed the car as '70 1/2 like Ford did the Mustang in late '64... Must be blue oval envy... LOL!!

Ron don't take this bad, you just seem so fired up about some of this... You have a :cool: car and it sounds like you enjoy it and that's what it's all about. We may not see eye to eye on some little details but we both enjoy our Camaros and that's what it's all about! :beers:

DENNIS:

I totally agree with you; but I've been hit with more then enough crap in this forum from 1st Gen Enthusiasts that believe nothing else exists but 1st GEN (which I give my utmost admiration and consideration to people that preserve a beautiful car with All American Heritage) ; however, GM in 1970 offered all out performance Camaro. All you have to do is drive one to feel the Performance and Handling improvements. I've owned a 67 327 Camaro, 68 396SS Chevelle, 71 Challenger RS and tuned my friends Boss 302's, Cornet HEMI's and 428FE Cobra's ... etc and none of these cars can compare to the Design Features Embedded by GM into the Design of the 70 Camaro.

In 1970 the Cost of Gas, Insurance and Gov't Regulations killed the Muscle Car. 1970 was the LAST BLAST for the BIG 3 and they simply built the BEST. Look at the 70 Chevelle or GTO, the 70 Camaro was not left out. The 70 Camaro Design lasted for more then a Decade, longer then any other Detroit concept. HP Options may have given away to Luxury Items over the term but the 70 Camaro was the Model that molded the future of Performance in the eye of consumer and was a BIG success for GM. GM Designed the 2nd Gen to be Superior to the 1st Gen and they did just that.

I've basically driven Volvo's when it comes to crunch driving in the Northern Ontario Winters but got to say a good Camaro will do it just as well.

I'm Posting in the 2nd GEN section of this forum and feel I can Rightfully Defend the Car. I would never criticize 1st Gen Camaro People when posting Mechanical or Body advise and expect 2nd Gen owners to receive the same respect in Team Camaro.

They are worth more than a std 70Z... mainly because it was a "race" thing... anything having to do with T/A racing in the early days seems to bring more money... apparently the Chev brass parked a few big spoiler cars in a parking lot at a T/A race in 70 so the officials would beleive that the big spoiler (which added alot of downforce to the rear of the cars at speed) was available and wide spread...


Although I agree with your points regarding the T/A racing and the need for the 3 piece spoiler, I do not belive a 70 Z with the 3 piece is any more valuable than a 1 piece spoiler. It would need to be more desireable to be worth more and only race guru's want the 3 piece on a '70. The 1 piece on the 70 was one of the sexiest spoilers ever designed for a car IMO.

for 1970, the one piece spoiler was standard, all cars ordered with a spoiler got them.

As stated earlier, there was the start of the 3 piece spoiler availability and it WAS an OPTION, but it took a COPO order to get one ... and it included the front spoiler as well

Starting in 1971 the one piece spoiler was STANDARD (as it was in 70) on the Z28 and the RPO D80 3 piece spoiler was optional and included the front spoiler

rare original paint 70 z28 with COPO spoiler package and stripe delete:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/JimRohn/71z/70zcopoblkasm.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/JimRohn/71z/70zcopoblkbsm.jpg
Hey thinks for the info I was always a little confused about the one piece 3 piece spoiler deal. Nice car by the way:yes:

Its a 70 Model drop the 1/2 ;)

boys, boys, stop fighting. get both a first gen and a 70Z.

boys, boys, stop fighting. get both a first gen and a 70Z.

Love 'em both...:yes:

I would like to comment regarding the origin for the term "70 1/2" ID for the first model of the 2nd Gen Camaro and the stigma associated with the term. This term was not coined by Camaro buyers or enthusiasts but rather by Dealers. Dealers were selling the 69 Camaro as NEW cars in 1970 before the 2nd Gen became available. To to justify the price of a year old car they informed the prospective buyers that the 69 model production was carried through into 1970 and were indeed 70 models. When the 2nd Gen arrived they coined the phrase 70 1/2 model in order to justify selling 69 Models as 1970 models. As far as stigma condemning the term "70 1/2" is not justified in my opinion because the term is recognized as a fact in "Automotive History".

If what you say is true Ron, then there are a few '69 Camaros running around with 1970 titles. I have yet to see one!

JW: Where did I mention anything about titles - GEEZ!

I got to hand it to "Hailraiser" for posting this blog because after 2400+ hits in less then 2 months indicates a Camaro Connoisseurs interest in these cars. The Body was designed specifically for Performance and Trans/AM and incorporated the Best Engineered Parts GM had to offer from the 60's era experience which include Camaro, Chevelle and Corvette parts and they were only built for 1/2 a year in 1970 making the car Specific and Rare today.

http://www.camaroforums.com/upfiles/4815/946DE6ADDE5A456983B6959D600E965E.jpg

well said, although 69s are more popular, 70s are a better car. hands down

To justify the price of a year old car they informed the prospective buyers that the 69 model production was carried through into 1970 and were indeed 70 models.

JW: Where did I mention anything about titles - GEEZ!

You've just said that salesman informed buyers that the '69 model was indeed a '70 model. Who would put their money down on a car thinking it was a 1970 when they get a Title indicating it was a 1969 model car?

Sorry but you cannot say a car is one year and sell it with a Title indicating another year - GEEZ! :rolleyes:

JW: The 69 production carried over into 1970 and were sold as new cars in 1970. I was on the show room floors back then as I was in the market for a Z28 and choose to wait for the 2nd Gen Z28; however, the price for the 70 Z28 was $5,600 and too much for my pocket so ended up buying a new 72 Challenger 340 Magnum RS in the fall of 71 for $3,800. I eventually got my 70Z in 76. I'm not discussing titles - so stop crying wolf your argument is frivolous. It is common knowledge and part of automotive history that the 69 production carried over into 1970 and the term 70 1/2 Z28 distinguishes the introduction of the 2nd generation Camaro from the 69 models which were sold as new cars in 1970.

JW: The 69 production carried over into 1970 and were sold as new cars in 1970...

It is common knowledge and part of automotive history that the 69 production carried over into 1970 and the term 70 1/2 Z28 distinguishes the introduction of the 2nd generation Camaro from the 69 models which were sold as new cars in 1970.

Production of "69" Camaros ended in November of 1969 at the Norwood plant, July of 1969 at LOS/VN. They were still being produced in a timeframe in which next-year models would normally have been built, and there were many that were still on the lot in the calendar year of 1970. They were still "1969" Camaros, although some were incorrectly titled/sold as 1970 models.

Hey Dave what's up: I'm not emphasizing title but discussing the the term 70 1/2 Camaro; but anyway, the reason I said the production of the 69 Camaro ran onto 1970 was quoted by many dealer sales personal and I guess in attempt to explain to prospective buyer's a reason for the delay in the 70 model. Out of curiosity I just Googled "1969 Camaro Production Run" and came up with this "from September 1968 through February 1970" - whatever - Guess what - it's a Canadian site http://www.camarosource.ca/php/camaro_info_db/index.php?year=1969 and I'm Canadian - LOL - In other words, it looks like a matter of interpretation regarding the time period the 69 model was considered a new car; that is, until it was superseded by a newer model; but the article does support my argument regarding that it was the Dealers that coined the term 70 1/2 Camaro. It is also my understanding that the 70 Camaro was actually scheduled for the fall of 1970 and was to be marketed as a 71 model but was hurried up to compete with the Ford Mustang and Maverick.

As a matter of FACT the March 1970 issue of CAR CRAFT Magazine emphasizes "70 1/2 Camaro" on the front cover, see here: http://cgi.ebay.com/CAR-CRAFT-MARCH-1970-350-IN-Z-28-CAMARO-VETTE_W0QQitemZ270219924113QQihZ017QQcategoryZ280Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp163 8Q2em118Q2el1247

If I recall the Camaro's did not do that well in Trans/AM that year as Donohue dominated with the Javelin.

It is common knowledge and part of automotive history that the 69 production carried over into 1970...

You know not what you say....

As stated '69 production ran about 5 months late but not into 1970 and 1969's were sold as new cars in 1970 but could never be passed of as 1970 models. Think about cowl tags, window stickers, POPs and other documentation that would all indicate the model year the car was. Bottom line is new '69's were sold in 1970 as '69s.

Can we move on now?

DjD: Thanks. I did not want to get into titles or production dates of the 69 model as I stated previously I was following up on the term "70 1/2 Camaro". I do recall some GM publicity pictures of the 69 Camaro labeled as a 1970, but they were all assigned 1969 VIN codes; as you point out; however, I do know one Dealer in Barrie Ontario Canada that did erroneously title some late 69 models as a 1970 model but this would only be applicable to the Department of Motor Vehicle Registration and not GM production dates.

It was not my intention to offend 69 Camaro enthusiasts nor did I want to get into a discussion regarding titles but for some reason the term "70 1/2 Camaro" seems to spark the dander of some enthusiasts and owners of 1970 Camaro can proudly testify to this phenomena.

for some reason the term "70 1/2 Camaro" seems to spark the dander of some enthusiasts and owners of 1970 Camaro can proudly testify to this phenomena.

Yeah, I know. I used to refer to mine as a "70 1/2" until I found Nasty a few years ago :D

Yeah, I know. I used to refer to mine as a "70 1/2" until I found Nasty a few years ago

Dave:

That’s what I’m pointing out. Automotive History has labelled the Mid Year 1970 Camaro as the “70 ½ Camaro”. Classic Automotive enthusiasts instinctively know the label and discussions of the term will always be linked to the introduction of 1970 model and consequently to the selling of 1969 models as new cars in 1970. The 70 COPO 9796 Rear Spoiler option also has a great story in Camaro history. Controversy and opinionated conversation is associated with the 1970 Camaro further adding to its uniqueness.

It’s obvious that Team Camaro Members post demonstrating respect for others in the interest of sharing information about Classic Automobiles and their history. I don’t pretend to know it all and like to share what I’ve experienced over the years and hear what other members have to say; however as noted, I will not be intimidated or stand down gracefully if I am frivolously attacked with out notoriety because “failure to disclose is just plain wrong” if not “Nasty”. Team Camaro is probably one of the most enjoyable Forums on the Net and I voice to keep it that way.

i like aem all...70 challenger, 69 camaro, 70-81 camaro or trans am..i love them all

Dave:

That’s what I’m pointing out. Automotive History has labelled the Mid Year 1970 Camaro as the “70 ½ Camaro”. Classic Automotive enthusiasts instinctively know the label and discussions of the term will always be linked to the introduction of 1970 model and consequently to the selling of 1969 models as new cars in 1970. The 70 COPO 9796 Rear Spoiler option also has a great story in Camaro history. Controversy and opinionated conversation is associated with the 1970 Camaro further adding to its uniqueness.

It’s obvious that Team Camaro Members post demonstrating respect for others in the interest of sharing information about Classic Automobiles and their history. I don’t pretend to know it all and like to share what I’ve experienced over the years and hear what other members have to say; however as noted, I will not be intimidated or stand down gracefully if I am frivolously attacked with out notoriety because “failure to disclose is just plain wrong” if not “Nasty”. Team Camaro is probably one of the most enjoyable Forums on the Net and I voice to keep it that way.


The reference to "Nasty" is to a web site that is the 2nd gen version of Team Camaro for 1st gens. www.nastyz28.com Here's a quote from their site on the 1970... Due to production delays the 1970 Camaro was introduced in February 1970, half way into the production year. Because of this, some people will call the 1970 Camaro a 1970 1/2, but officially the car is a 1970 model year Camaro.

Dennis: Thank you kindly for your “NICE” disclosure regarding NastyZ28.com site. I would not like our readers interpreting what I said previously in any other manner – LOL ; however, I will continue to label my 70 Z28 Camaro as a 70 ½ model on occasion to light up conversation with anyone willing to engage in the exchange of Camaro History :o))

http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/e1/a9/057c_1.JPG

Geez! According to that PIC they came with Western Slots as well - LOL. When I bought mine in 76 it came with 4.10's, Race Masters on Western Slots, L88 Scoop and the COPO 9697 Spoiler but someone put a L78 in her and bolted a set of 70 Sting Ray Side Pipes to the Rockers - not much could touch it in the quarter back then. Makes me wonder today if I should have left it in that nostalgic state but I'm too much of a HWY man.

Dennis: Thank you kindly for your “NICE” disclosure regarding NastyZ28.com site. I would not like our readers interpreting what I said previously in any other manner – LOL ; however, I will continue to label my 70 Z28 Camaro as a 70 ½ model on occasion to light up conversation with anyone willing to engage in the exchange of Camaro History :o))


you would have to actually know it though ... :)

http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/e1/a9/057c_1.JPG

Geez! According to that PIC they came with Western Slots as well - LOL.

that is right, it says so in a magazine, so it must be so (or of late, if you see it on the internet it must be so ... ) :)

you would have to actually know it though ...

You know Jim we have to have humor when you get to my age. Think about it. These cars are 38 and plus years old. They were bought by young men and women say with an average age of 25 to 35 years old with jobs that could afford to buy them. Now add 38 years. That means they are now 63 to 73 plus years old, if still around. Man, I'm 60 and was not old enough back then to afford a 70 Z28 until 1976 but I was a teenager through the 60's with my head under the hood of every Muscle Car I saw and worked on them as well. If died tomorrow and fortunate enough to have St. Peter grant me a place in Heaven, I would request that I be transported back in time to the days of the Muscle Car and Sunoco 260 was 35 cents a gallon :o))

Anyway regarding fact that the 70 1/2 Camaro Z28 is a "MYTH" doesn't quite hold true because no one told GM: Check out GM Photo Archives at this Site: http://gmphotostore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=53217955
specifically refers to the car as 1970 1/2 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Coupe and here is a GM Photograph of the car with the GM Logo on the PIC:

http://www.camaroforums.com/upfiles/4949/6A9A8625F4F5411A86DB974C85951AA4.jpg

The 9796 COPO Spoiler is a COPO Option, not a RPO, and no way associated with the 69 COPO 427 or Fleet Cars but has great historic value relative to Trans/AM Racing thus making the "1970 1/2 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Coupe" ordered with 9796 COPO Spoiler a SPECIAL CAR and I believe deserves recognition by all because just looking at one Demands Attention.

http://www.camaroforums.com/upfiles/4949/A9678CBE4029413194783C4FAA811490.jpg

Yah! I run Double Reds and so does Ferrari :o)). I didn't install the bumperettes after painting the car. I do the mechanical, painting; whatever, I do not trust anyone with my life or the life of others if I punch the throttle.

GOOD ARGUMENT - HUH!! - and special thanks to Rich Pern :o)

Now all I have to do is find that 39 year old GM POSTER of the 69 Camaro advertised as a 1970 model. Humm, could do with some help on this - they EXIST.

In the mean time here's a bit of info: "The Great Camaro" by Michael Lamb (3rd printing Feb 80) Pg 59 says "many Camaros with the appearance of 69's were registered as 1970 models. Unofficial figures put the number of 1970 produced 69's at 53,526 units". I doubt the VIN's were dated 70 but there is significant evidence that 69 Camaros were Titled and Registered as 70 models.

One thing I would like to add is that aside from a new body and the 360Hp mechanical cam 350 LT1 engine the 70 Z28 Camaro is more closely related to the 69 Z28 model then the following years. It shares the same electrics, drive train, steering column and other components plus parts from the 69 Chevelle like the larger ball joints and 70 Vette engine... etc. Mine has a 600Hp 460ci BBC, mechanical roller, Nascar 830 Holley on an Edlebrock RPM Air Gap to an M21 and 12 Bolt Posi 3.31:1 gears. It originally came with 4.10's. I traded the 4 series for a 3 series carrier with a buddy running a 70 BBC Chevelle.

Hi, I am new here and came across this thread. It seems that the 9796 COPO always starts a battle regardless of what site it shows up on. The history of the 9796 copo is very unique and is associated with Vince Piggins and Jim Hall at chevrolet racing. It seems that the short spoiler which was standard on the Z actually created 125 lbs of uplift at high speeds this created problems racing on the trans am circuit and put the new camaro at a significant disadvantage. Team chevrolet started experimenting and found that the center section from a trans am spoiler did the trick and at speed, combined with the chin spoiler would create 200+ downward force needed. The problem was there were not any cars built as a production item to allow the spoiler to be legal in trans am. Hall tried to use the spoiler and Penske who I believe was ford at that time filed a protest and Hall had to remove the spoiler from the car. I believe Vince Piggins had AO Smith fabricate end pieces for the spoiler and had cars shipped to dealers around the dallas area in time for the dallas trans am race. He also had a few brought and parked in the parking lot at the race and was able to trick the officials into believing that the spoiler was a production item.

The 9796 copo and the 69 copo are apples and oranges.

But I must state that the 9796 copo is very significant. Especially when you note that Vine Piggins, Jim Hall, and chevy factory racing all were front line developers of the 9796 and the application it was needed for was a significant part of it's racing performance. Although it most likely will not ever gain the status of a Yenko, Nickey, Harrell, BB COPO etc. I think in many ways it should. It was part of what some refer to as Trans Am's greatest racing season in which factory teams from Chevy, Ford, Mopar and AMC all competed balls out.


If the member who was looking for the information on the window sticker, I have the original window sticker from my 9796 and also build sheets. If you are interested get a hold of me (since this is my first post here and im not sure how the site works) or if you cant get me through this site you can find me on the yenko site as COPO RS/Z28

I am not as versed on the history as Phill is but It should be correct info.

Hi guys (and gals)

Carl:beers:

Carl: Welcome to Team Camaro Forums and Great History Info you have. Although this is a 1st GEN Site this is the place for provided for us 2nd Gen guys. Unlike the Nastz28 site which is rather stagnant, allot of Team Camaro Members are true Gurus of the Chev Muscle Era and keep the forums active with great information. Being a 67 or 70 owner you will be at risk of intimation from 69 owners but the general consensuses is that Camaro Politics is FUN and on going Learning Experience when done tastefully :o))

Carl: Being a 67 or 70 owner you will be at risk of intimation from 69 owners but the general consensuses is that Camaro Politics is FUN and on going Learning Experience when done tastefully :o))

Please tell me that no one is intimidated by a 69 owner. Why would they be? :beers::beers:

Micheal: Yah! I concede that Team Camaro is basically 69 Turf but if I meet you on the HWY or a Winding Road through Mountainous Terrain like the Canadian Shield that's my Turf - LOL

Micheal: Yah! I concede that Team Camaro is basically 69 Turf but if I meet you on the HWY or a Winding Road through Mountainous Terrain like the Canadian Shield that's my Turf - LOL

I think you misinterpeted my comment. I know alot of 69 owners look down on the rest of us, but I really don't care. I like all muscle cars. Mike. :beers::beers:

Thanks Guys,

I was always a big car guy and then one day I decided I wanted a 67 rs. In my travels trying to search one out I noticed the 70 z and fell in love with it. The more I learned about it the more I realized what a great car the 70 was.

Love it

Carl

I grew up around 1st gens, restored many of 'em. I like them a lot. But I really like the 70 RSZ that's sitting in my garage. Only has had a repaint and carpet, probably ~15-20 years ago. That's it. Has a lot of compression and gear, but that doesnt keep me from driving it all the time :thumbsup:

Has a big front spoiler on it, but I'm not takin it off because I like the look. Had the big spoiler on the rear at some time in the past, so I had my partner "certify" it as a COPO. Since its a week or two too early, I say it's a prototype COPO :D

TC is Camaro Turf with it's roots in the 1st gen. Of the 1st gens the '69 is the most sought after and there were more of them produced as well as have survived. Because a lot of folks from all generations started showing up here and the membership seemed to embrace the others and provided help to there questions, the site opened up to all by establishing the 2nd - 5th gen forums. The goal was not to compete with the other generation sites but to make those coming here with other than a 1st gen feel welcome.

Before the influx of other generations there was no "my year car was better than yours" with the exception of a handfull of wing window wing nuts (I say that with affection) spouting off in fun about the '67 being the best year. We've also had a poll or two that provided statistics, it wasn't used to divide. Not until recent time has there been any real negativity such as what has come out in a couple 2nd gen threads! Guy's I'm not being insulting here but I quite hanging out over at nasty because of all the "we're treated like the ugly step child" attitude. I personally went out of my way to get some of the local online 2nd gen folks to bring their cars out many times and was given a lot of reasons for not showing but when pressed it came down to "everyone hates us". Man that can't be further than the truth but a couple of your comments sure leave one to believe you really feel that way!

I don't think it's worth rehashing the past and can assure you if you just go about asking for help and or providing help when you can and stop worrying about what's more rare or the best you'll fit in and these mean old 69 and other 1st gen owners will embrace you with cudos for your cars. Ask Z28 Mark, MuscleCarJohn or the Pozzi's, they all own 2nd gens and nobody has ever picked on them or their cars...

Dennis: couple of your comments sure leave one to believe you really feel that way!

I totally agree with all you are saying especially the part regarding crap like “my car is better then yours”; that is all but for the above quote. All you have to do is read back through this particular thread to spot the demeaning factor and were it came from. It did not come from members with genuine interest in discussing the title of this post. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Gen, Camaros, AMX, Challenger, Mustangs… etc, I don’t care what an enthusiasts preferred ride is along as that person is genuinely interested in a fair exchange of information whether it is Automotive History solving problems, I play a fair game.

I know you are up for a genuine argument and exchange of information which I respect and appreciate that I can attempt to persuade you to look alternately without being intimidated; for example you did say at one point Bottom line is new '69's were sold in 1970 as '69s. Well I disagreed and presented :o))

Robert said It’s a 70 drop the ½. Well I disagreed and presented.

As I clearly stated; I was discussing the origination of the term 70 1/2 and made the comment to the effect that 69's were sold as new cars in 70 until the new model, which was advertised by dealers as the 701/2 Z28 Camaro, arrived. I mentioned nothing about titles; but it was an interesting aspect of the argument.

There is nothing wrong with rebuttal backed up with credential and notarization. It’s crap like You know not what you say.... and not provide explanation that is demeaning.

I can comment that, although the NastyZ28 site provides excellent information on the 2nd Gen models, their forums are rather stagnant compared to Team Camaro. I did send them a New Years Greeting from Team Camaro with a PIC of my car on the Card :o))

Anyway; it was probably a 69 Z28 owner that started the rumor that the "70 1/2 Chevrolet Camaro z28 Coupe" is an Urban Myth and "I say it with affection" - LOL