Saw this on another forum and I thought is was BS... but I didn't know for sure...


My father has a 1969 Camaro Indy Pace Car SS/RS with the 396ci/375hp motor and aluminium heads. It was 1 of 7 made, and god knows how many today exist. It currently has 6k miles on it, and is just like it came out of the show room floor. Right out of the show room floor it turned high 11s, slicks brought it down to mid 11s, and opening the exhast brought it into 10s. Not trying to say that im better the anyone, im not like that, but the car would eat any muscle car of the day for breakfast, excecpt for the 426 hemi. That was a close race.

The car really has about 500 - 550 hp, and can smoke the tires while going 70 mph. If you guys are interested, im sure I can get some pictures.

Sounds like a tall tale to me..where is the forum ?

I would have to say that maybe his claims are just a tad overstated. Like maybe by two seconds in the quarter and about a hundred steeds under the hood!

Bigtime BS, It takes more than a 396/375hp engine to run in the 10 second zone in a stock bodied pacecar.

Anybody know how many 396/375 HP Z11 cars were made? I know that #1 and #2 were.. .but how many more....

What was a typical 1/4 time for one of these cars? Gonna have to set him straight.

YES!! FULL of it!!

LOL Maybe he was talking about 1/8th mile LOL

ask him to show you paperwork that it is a factory L89 convert....

I asked for photos and docs... well see if I get a reply....

I did get a reply...... but no pics or docs...

Wow thats a quote from a long time ago, and the numbers I gave you were on a blueprinted engine, which, now that I've reread my post, I didn't mention.

I see that I also didn't mention that the car was factory automatic, and the 1 of 7 produced was both said from the dealer and some research he did. Im not going to ask him where he did the research for two reasons: 1) Hes asleep right now 2) He doesnt care if its rare or not, the car isn't for sale.

The times, I'll get exact numbers later, but was done at either Thomson or Dragway 42, but they were done at the drag strip, and with people watching him, so I know that the times are creditable.

With all the research in the world, you really have no idea what it really will do until you sit behind the wheel, which is true for any car, and drive it.

Am I wrong.. or could you get an auto with an L78 or L89 motor? I didn't think that that was an option.

A 396/375hp could be reworked to 425hp specs with factory parts?

I did get a reply...... but no pics or docs...



Am I wrong.. or could you get an auto with an L78 or L89 motor? I didn't think that that was an option.

A TH400 was an available option for '69 Camaros w/375hp motors. Coded CX with a higher stall 6-bolt torque converter and beefed clutch packs. You could get this TH400 behind COPO 9560 & 9561, also.

Maybe he was at a 1000' track and not a 1320... I just do not see it...

Basically he is saying his 396 car was faster than almost every COPO 427 car including the ZL1's. Even blueprinted ones. I think the guy sleeping is dreaming.

This is probably a 14-yr old kid who reads too much Hot Rod magazine.

There was not a 1969 muscle car made that ran in the 11's straight from the factory. Certainly not a 396/375. That 375 figure represents the horse power so it wouldn't have the 500 to 550 that he claims.

Just so this kid knows, the 426 hemi was not the fastest of the muscle cars back in the day. The shelby cobra and the 427/235 corvette was faster too. The only 396/375 car listed on the top 50 fastes muscle cars was a Nova and it was down around 40. Granted all the cars tested and doucmented didnt always have the perfect gear or tranny combo's but the L-89 or L-78 just were not that fast. If you just got off of a Schwinn with a bananna seat the car probably seems like the space shuttle!! LOL jmo Kevin

I dont know if this has any thing to do with it but my uncle has a 68 camaro with a 800 hp motor and he does like 12 or 13sec so hes full of it and he might have a different gear ratio rigt or wrong

It would be interesting to see if it's a real L89 Pace Car conv. As for the mid 11 sec 1/4 mile times, not in a 396 with stock parts.

IIRC the "375" hp 396 in the 1966 Chevelles were identical to the "425" hp, 396's that appeared in the 1965 Corvettes. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they used the same engine in the Camaros and again called it 375 HP.

425 horses might get you into the 12's but it isn't going to get you antwhere near the 11's in quarter.

This 68 Z/28 ran 11.47 in the early 70's with a small block. Ed
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/RPOZ28/bobs68camaro2.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/RPOZ28/bobs68camaro3.jpg

The elevens in the original post are not possible with a 375 horse 396, the last one is possible to turn the elevens in a camaro with a built up small block.

The big difference is the small block had 488's or 513's in the rear end gears and the right slicks and drive line and 90 10 shocks up front.

The thing you want to remember here is unibodys versus full frame cars. Heres the facts. First muscle car for the general public was a 389 ci gto' but the real deal showed up in 1962. These cars would kill any gto.

You can quote track times, quarter mile records, theres a lot of documented this did this and this did that.

I'm talking here in 1962 you or I could buy this car, some had to be ordered, some you could buy out of the showroom, but I'm talking the average joe could buy these cars, and there last name didn't have to be johnson or petty.

1962, dodge and plymouth put out a 413 max wedge, 1964 they went to the 426 max wedge, 1965 went to the hemi, I have had a 63 dodge and a 62 plymouth original max wedge body, if you set in these cars you will notice they are narrow and not very big, plus they are a unibody like the camaro, no full frame. These mopars dominated until 1968, when the 426 cuda and dart came out, hurst finished it up for them, fiberglass front ends lexan side windows, light weight van seats, these 68's also dominated for several years.

Did you know that a 1967 gto 400 ram air 433 gears, would beat a 1967 corvette 427 435 horse, been there, did that, its all in the weight and gears stall speed, lift and putting the rubber to the ground.

To end this, this guy with the 396 375 car, telling us what he did, is ridiculous.

Theres L88's and all these other special motors that were built years ago.

But, remember, what was available to the average guy, and the mopars were the way to go.

I like camaro's and the chevelle I'm doing now, gm always had better looking cars and nicer interiors, but the mopars were boss, and don't even think they weren't.



The cars I have told you about, I was there when all this happened, this isn't something I heard or read about.

Rob

RPOZ28. I know this is off topic but. Holy crap. Do those time slips and the picture of that car bring back memories. I watched that 68 make several runs. I raced at every one of those strips and a few others in the NY, CT, MA, NJ and PA area. During the early 70's I wheeled a 23 T altered for a family friend. It was powered by a 300 cube Chevy straight 6. I used to have a blast driving it. I used to go to Island Dragway in Great Meadows, NJ alot.

Thats why a mother should not drink during pregnancy.

If you do a search on the net, you can find a couple dozen sites that have the "50 fastest muscle cars". They differ a little but one thing is pretty consistent... there are only about 3 or 4 cars under 400 cu.in. in that list. The 351 Boss Mustang, 69 Nova 396/375 (13.87, no where near 11's) and the 62 Corvette FI. I have seen one list that had a first gen Z28 included but not in most of them. We all have to remember that the cars documented were not necessarily the best for the strip. The 69 Nova is always listed with 3:55 gears for instance. Just my .02 but I dont believe that any cars in stock trim could run in the 11's. Kevin

Baldwin-Motion sold a camaro guaranteed to do 11's back then, didn't they?

I have seen some old sales posters in some of my books on camaros. Interesting.

The Motion Camaro guarantee was 11 seconds or under on a sanctioned track with their driver as I recall. Of course the Motion Camaro was seriously worked over from motor, suspension, gears, ignition, exhaust, etc. Far and away more car than the disscusion is about. Maybe this guy was a dentist and this was the first nitros oxide car?

On the Barret & Jackson aution a few weeks ago they had a 69Z for sale which was documented as having the lowest original miles of any 69 Camaro.
I think they said 11,500

i bought a new 1968, 396/375 camaro in dec.1967 with a 4 speed and 3.55 psoi.i knew i would probably be drafted so i just ran pure stock.then you could only remove the air cleaner and hub caps.you had to have the stock size tires on all 4 wheels.it came with f-70-14 red line tires.i ran a best of 13.05 at 110 at detroit dragway.the trick was to kick up the timing and jetting.i shifted at 7,400 rpm.it was all stock.after i got out of the army,i put on slicks and headers with a 4.56 and ran a best of 11.74 at 118.the car weighed 3,520 on the scales at milan dragway.this was typical of the big port 396 if you knew someone that knew what they were doing.i was lucky to know someone like that being 19 and dumb myself.the engine is long gone being replaced with a 468.wish i had it now.

"Blueprinted"......wonder if he even knows what that actually means?.....I can assure you, it's not gonna knock the 2-3 seconds off the e.t. that car would actually run that he is claiming the car ran.

"Right out of the showroom floor it turned high 11's"......didn't happen....all there is to it.

I remember back around 1987 or 1988....the first musclecar boom....one of the magazines did a shootout between an LS6 Chevelle and some Mopar w/ the 426 Hemi. They did a performance tune on both cars and ran them on radials....both cars ran HIGH 12's w/ the Chevelle winning the shootout.

Shannon

On the Barret & Jackson aution a few weeks ago they had a 69Z for sale which was documented as having the lowest original miles of any 69 Camaro.
I think they said 11,500


Whoever said that was wrong - here is an 1,821 mile Z:

http://www.coast2camaro.com/Page2.html

My Pace Car has 8,400 documented original miles.

Whoever said that was wrong - here is an 1,821 mile Z:

http://www.coast2camaro.com/Page2.html

My Pace Car has 8,400 documented original miles.

Rick... is that you? When did you move to UT?

bill jenkins ss/c 396/375 camaro was by far the fastest in the country.at the 1968 nationals nobody showed up in his class.it was a true race car his best time was 10.96 before he retired it.

To put in perspective; in 1969 I ordered and took delivery of a L78 nova. It ran low 14's in stock trim and it had the TH400 with 3.55 gears. Several years later when I had taken it off the street I had 4.88 gears, hooker headers, 800 double pump carb, General Kinetics cam, L88 exhaust valves, and a 5,000 Winter torque converter rebuilt by ATI. This was in the early to mid 80's and the car went high 11's consistently once dialed in. The car was never cut and I ran heavy with a 12.00 dial in. Needless to say, I never saw any L78 or L89 come close to the numbers he is throwing around but we can all recall a conversation with someone that states they ran something incredible. Let the dream continue!

Well if that guy thinks he has a fast car wait till he hears about my stock '78 Malibu 305 2 barrell running 10's........



I would like to mention that the 396/375 motor is refactored (and has been for quite a while) by the NHRA....it is at 410 HP now I am pretty sure.

But that still won't bring 11's in the 1320. Stockers with that combo are in the 11's, and we know what kind of funky things they do to those cars, 538 gears and all.


I do remember reading Hot Rod Magazine where they did a reprint on a 1966 or 67 article where the guys at a Chevy Dealership invitied them to go bang the guts out of a first gen camaro that they dropped the Corvette 427 into (425 HP I think).

With slicks, and I think slapper bars, 4:11's and a stick they got high 11's out of the car, brand new.

Hot Rod reprinted that article about 5 years ago in a current (at the time) issue.

But yes, that guy is certainly dreaming. Of course some of the ultra rare musclecars could run 11's, but that was with ideal conditions and a serious bank account (and perhaps a connection at the dealer).

he'll wake up one of these days....or maybe grow up

That Black Tuxedo Z @ coast2coast makes my mouth water, that's incredible.

I'm with SS dave...that is one of the finest examples of a Camaro on the planet!

Rick... is that you? When did you move to UT?


Nope - sorry - no Rick here.

Must be one of a kind.

so now youve gotta let us know what forum you got that from so we can set him straight...

or maybe his dad will want to run for slips since it will be running high 10s now hahah!

Don't know about the car but we just delivered a 396" with "factory aluminum heads" and NO porting whatsoever. Solid lifter "Engle" cam was the only non-original piece in the unit. Carb and intake in photo was for test only. It was run on 93 octane. Below is the post from the Chevelle forum just a few weeks ago. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

(Quote)
"Old School" 504 HP 396” (Pump-Gas) BB
Just finished testing a 396 BB Chev using mostly "old-school" parts and technology. Installed a set of TRW L2242F's (+040), pressed pins, a set of Eagle SIR's to save the customer some bucks, non file-fit S/P (E232K) rings, an "Engle" "flat-tappet" cam (242/254-.576"/.607"-108C/L), with "Corteco" head gaskets, under a set of the G.M. "Winters" (#14011076) 2nd design Aluminum heads (295 CC Int's x 115 chambers) held in place by a set of "Stainless" ARP head bolts, a 10.52:1 C.R. (zero deck), and an old "TM-1" on top. Tested with a 750 Holley and 2.125" pipes. Ending up with a reading of 504 HP @ 6300 RPM and 467 Ft. Lbs. @ 5200 RPM. There was absolutely no porting whatsoever with the exception of a “gasket match” and the removal of the "vanes" in the exhaust ports. This unit is destined for an early
"nostaligia" style street-rod. This was the reason the customer basically chose all the components, down to the "Weiand" timing cover with no dowel pins. The cover was cast up some 40 years ago. The "TM-1" will be removed this week and the unit will receive a "Man-a-Fre" intake consisting of (4) 2 brl. Rochesters. We’ve incorporated a "trick-custom" PCV system completely hidden under the bottom, which uses NO vacuum lines at all. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. The cam break-in went smoothly using “moly” on the lobes and Pennzoil 25-50 race oil. The “PCV” system is a novelty idea basically similar to one used on newer Chevrolet fuel-injected units. It incorporates the “orifice” under the intake in the lifter valley and feeds directly into plenum with all the components out of sight. Customer also supplied a "Traco" fully degreed damper. I saw the last one of these in the early '70's. The unit will have the “Crane” rockers removed before delivery and a set of Comp Cams “Pro-Magnums” installed, so everything fits under the “low” valve covers. This was an opportunity for us to see what was possible in 1966 with the exception of the later heads. These would have been all the components used in the 1970 time period. I have to say, “this unit was a fun build”! (End Quote)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/GOSFAST/PES%20Engines/th_PES1864-09.jpg (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/GOSFAST/PES%20Engines/PES1864-09.jpg)

sorry . . double post. . .

According to the top 50 fastest production cars list I have it shows this car as the fastest out of the box for 1997 and older production cars as tested by various magazines.

1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 four-speed 3.54 gear ratio Car Craft mag 11/65

NO 69 396 camaros on the list. . .

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/4067/50fastest.htm

if you look the 396/375 and the 396/425 are the same engine.in 1965 it was rated 425 hp at 6400 rpm in 1966 it was 375 hp at 5600 rpm.probably true.gm also did this with the L-88. the 427/435 hp seemed like more i forget the rpm,but the L-88 was 430hp at 5200 rpm.it had a lot more cam and 12.5 compression with an 850 holly.it had more ribbing in the block to make it stronger.people have put the L-88 anywhere from 550 to 600 hp.out of the factory.

Hey Guys, Ive Seen 396-375 Motors That Run Better Than The 427 Motors. I Had A 396-375 In A 55 Chevy That Would Run In The Low 7's In A 1/8 Mile. He May Not Be So Full Of Bull???? Lol

You had a bone stock 396/375 in a 55 that ran low 7's???

1/8th mile . . . not 1320ft

I assumed that it was 1/8th time. Low 7's in a lead sled like that is pretty quick!

3,700 lbs isn't too bad considering . . . kinda like a chevelle . . . My 56 chevy with a 396 and a nitrous kit ran low 12s in the 1/4 . . . it was a 325hp originally but was built a little stronger than that . . . :)

Man, I'd like to have a 68 SS 396/375 hp L78 . . . sweet score . . . off topic but how long have you had it?

this is the 3rd year of this project. I can see light at the end of the tunnel(just hope it isnt a train!).

I think he may be streching the truth a bit.
My 68 has a sm 383 stroker motor built by one of the Southeasts premier engine builders. It dynos at 510bhp / 435ft.#.
It's coupled to an M-21 with the good Itallian gears. Frame rails are tied together and support a big 10 w/ a 3.73 and eaton posi-unit.
I can't make it spin the tires at 70
Even with a 100 shot spray !!!!!!!

Sounds like a Craigslist ad...... what a Loser.

I know one of two things with this kids story, either everytime he speaks his nose grows longer or he missed his calling as a comedian on "last comic standing" because when I read this thread I was laughing my butt off!! Maybe when his Dad isn't jumping the Grand Canyon or flying around saving the World he can take a couple pictures and send them to us!! I think maybe I'm being to hard on him, I guess I should have just said "I call B.S." and left it at that, Sorry..........

This thread is a year and a half old.... just sayin'....