I'm looking at these iron heads for my 406 sbc build and was wondering what the flow #'s are. I'm looking to make 500/500 at the flywheel. Are the pro1's worth the price - are they that much of a step up?

sportsman II stage1 200cc $760
dart iron eagle 200cc (need better springs) $850
pro topline stage1 200cc $880
dart pro1 stage1 200cc $1050

The Iron Eagles will make as much HP as the aluminum versions. The weight savings and porting easability is what the aluminum offers over the iron. The sportsman II's are a little out of date for out the box performance but with some cleanup, they will make power also. All the heads above will need some cleanup and pocket porting to make the HP your're looking for. If the 406cid is going to be pretty stout, you could even go to 215cc runners. I'm running the 215's on my 383. Here's their flow no.:

Lift------In.------Ex.
.200----127-----114
.300----178-----145
.400----216-----164
.500----249-----172
.600----268-----174


That's for 215cc Iron Eagle (not platinum)

For a VERY good head at a good price as well, peak at the brodix iron killer 200cc heads.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=78237&parentCategoryId=10187&langId=-1

You can probably find better pricing out there as well. Check into what you can find those for with the CNC chamber option. Not discarding darts....they are still great heads too, there are just some better out of the box ones.

As far as out of the box 200cc heads go, these Iron Killers(IK) are one of the best for the price for sure(there are better heads, like the AFR 195's and the brodix Race Rites). But, these are closer than most for a better price. I also know a dealer that might be able to give you a better price yet. He is often able to save a few bucks on AFR or brodix stuff(among other speed parts).

Back to your original question....power numbers would be very similar with either dart head(pro or iron eagle). The additional price is due to the high quality aluminum the pro 1 heads are made of and the natural advantages of aluminum. Number one, aluminum is lighter(always nice to lose weight) and easier to repair/work on(if ever necessary). Plus, as I said, dart uses a very good grade of aluminum for their heads. They use the 355-T6 grade as opposed to the A 356 that is much more common in many aftermarket heads. So really, the aluminum is what makes em better and more expensive than their iron eagles(not out of the box performance).

By the way, the better grade of aluminum is a nice thing, but often not necessary. Darts are very durable and have lots of porting potential. If you arent really going to run em real hard and work on em and everything else, any other head with just the A 356 aluminum does fine. In other words, the better 355 T6 aluminum dart uses is just extra potential that you probably wouldnt make use of. So dont be afraid that your getting junk if you go with differnet heads. Thats not the case. Many other heads have proven themselves with the A 356 aluminum.

Buddy with a 70 Nova SS 383,.630 lift solid roller, and Protopline aluminum 230cc heads is running 10.3's @ 12.5:1 now and has been 9.9's spinning (melted two pistons) with a 225 shot when the comp was 11:1. I have no idea of price now that RHS sells them, but know they'll work.

Have You checked out the numbers posted at CarCarft's Website

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/41598/index.html


Larger Dave

Back to your original question....power numbers would be very similar with either dart head(pro or iron eagle). The additional price is due to the high quality aluminum the pro 1 heads are made of and the natural advantages of aluminum.

thanks - I didn't realize the pro1's are aluminum

I'm probably gonna stick with iron heads. Of the three other heads and the brodix which has the best out of the box potential with a 406? I haven't selected a cam yet but the CR should be between 10.0 and 10.5

there's a set of IE200's in the forum classifieds for $750!!

Dont overlook the pro toplines, they are easily comparable and better than some you list. Ive been running a set for a few years now on my 406 (220 aluminum), and love them. The iron versions are equally good Im sure.
The thing I find most appealing about the toplines is they are thier own design, not just another variation on a stock GM casting. They have a real tall narrow port, which was a pain for me at first for gaskets, but they make gaskets specifically for them now. A guy we have do our cylinder heads locally really loves the design, he said they easily can be improved upon with porting, not major stuff either. Ive spoken with several guys we race with that have used them since buying mine, and everyone has really liked them, BBC heads as well. I was impressed with mine, they actually outflowed the advertised numbers, box stock, as cast. And outflowed my buddys pro 1's across the board, on the same bench.
as for the 500 horse goal, its doable with some of those heads, the sp. II and Iron eagles would need port work however, IMO. And i also second the opinion of a bigger head, something in the 215-220 range for a 406 in that HP range, the 406's love to breath, give 'em a cam and heads to match, gear accordingly, and they won't let you down! :D
And, personally I dont think I'd put much stock in the car craft database, Its pretty old, and I definately feel the protopline heads are not well represented.

The pro heads are a good choice as well. However, they make me nervous. A while back, I saw the 200cc ones side by side with some brodix, canfield, AFR and others all on the same bench. They hung right up close with the best of the best, which is a good thing based on the pricetag. However, things have changed over the years. I hear so many rumors about these heads anymore.....and lots of them are quality control topics. Many say that since they started changing hands, things have gone down. The casting is still supposed to be the same(so still plenty of potential), but the quality of everything else is said to be going downhill.

I cant veryify this at all by personal experience. All I can tell you is that I have known others that really stood by these heads a couple years back, but over time, the same people have started to complain that the heads dont show up as good as they used to. Maybe they are just an unlucky bunch though.....I dunno. But if you plan on the pro heads, check into it a lil bit I guess.

Back to brodix. Of all their street heads, one of the best ones out in its class right now is the Race Rite 200cc with the CNC chamber option. They got a bit of a better intake port than the AFR 195, but not quite as good as an exhaust port(the right cam fixes that up just fine). The RR heads also have excellent potential for more power later(through porting and such). The IK 200 brodix heads with the CNC chamber option are also real good heads. Out of the box, the arent quite as outstanding as an AFR 195 or a Race Rite, but they are also another one of those heads that are very close for the price(which is comparable to many other heads and less than the RR or AFR's cost). They dont have as much potential for later on though. They arent as heavy as a casting(less room for heavy porting among other things).

If youve got the cash, a race rite or AFR 195 is basicall the way to go. If your trying to save a few bucks but still end up with a great head, the IK 200 is a really good option.

I have information about a set of heads that I know will beat the best 23* ProTopline Racing Heads w/ 235 runners(have dyno sheets to prove it) and the most port work that can be done by a professional head porter. These heads have good runners for street and they offer a design that is great for street or race! They actually beat the old design Pro Racing heads by 30 hp on a flat top 406 with a worn flat tappet cam with less than .600 lift(not exactly sure of the specs, but definitely less than .600) 580 HP on pump gas. They use all the stock type rockers, valves, etc. They will actually cost about the same or less than all the heads listed above.

I work at a machine shop and am not at liberty to list them. If anyone is interested you can PM or email me.

MOD's, if this is against rules or anything like that, I am sorry and feel free to delete my post. I am not trying to cause any problems and have gained a lot of information from this site, but we have stumbled onto a great economical head and right now aren't going to give away any secrets to our competition. We do a lot of racing applications and can't divulge any thing to any of our competitors. I am also sorry for not being able to give this information freely, but I don't own the company and the owner has spent a great amount of money trying different heads(porting, flowing, dyno'ing, & racing). He has just stumbled onto a great thing and wants to get a little fame & a fraction of his money & time back.

Thanks

Cool, wish you guys best of luck. thats what its all about, bang for the buck.
But, for the record, my feeling is the 235 is not the best example of pro's heads, and Ill bet my head guy can get pretty darn close to your numbers ;).
J/K :D

The big advantage of the aluminum heads is heat disapation, you say you want to be around 11 to 1 compression, If you want to run pump gas you may want to rethink the options, even with aluminum heads you will be on the edge of detonation,

I have run both dart pro 1's and AFR 210's the AFR is a far superior head and to my mind worth the extra money.

I am running the Iron Eagle 200 cc's on my 408. They are great.

Mike

BTW, I'm running Protoplines too, 200cc Iron Lightnings.

No changes but the heads and .8 quicker in the quarter... so far !

3400 lbs. and .8 quicker ET and 7 MPH faster... you do the math.

BTW, I'm running Protoplines too, 200cc Iron Lightnings.
No changes but the heads and .8 quicker in the quarter... so far ! 3400 lbs. and .8 quicker ET and 7 MPH faster... you do the math.

what heads did they replace? what's the intake and carb?
I'd be pleased with low 12's and 110 mph
nice 68

a good page for flow numbers: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm

i would go with the i/e platinum if you wanna stick with iron heads. pro1 is gonna come out in platinum series soon and thats gonna be one good alu head too.

what heads did they replace? what's the intake and carb?
I'd be pleased with low 12's and 110 mph
nice 68

Thanks.

Full port and polished stock 400 heads (1.94/1.6)

Intake now is VicJr. and carb now is 750dp Holley list # 4779-6

alright, I'm goin with the cast iron 72cc ProTopline's. I've just gotta decide between a 200cc or 220cc intake runner. i'll prolly be going with a solid roller with these approx cam specs 250@.050, .600 lift, 108 LSA. CR should come in around 10.5 with the SRP flat tops. not sure are the 200's too small or the 220's too big? then I gotta decide between a dual plane and single plane manifold. my goal is still 500/500 at the flywheel.

Good choice on heads, I think you'll like them.
as for size, what are the specifics on your rear gearing and what trans?
I personally went with the 220 aluminum versions, and I am not in the least bit sorry. I went from a set of heavily ported 180's (sr torquers) to my as cast 220's, and lost no bottom end, but picked up tons of top end. Thats with a similar sold roller as to what you list (a good choice imo).
But, I knew mine would be a race oriented street car , so head choice was a no brainer (although its still a great driver). Now If you want a driver, with more street friendly gearing (like 3.73 or less), you will probably be fine with the 200's.
Heres my thoughts on that though, at 220 you may be pushing too big (not by much though, if at all) but will not likely see any loss in low end, while the 200's are almost exactly the opposite side, close to too small. I personally like to have room to grow, since how often do we ever say "oh yeah, I don't need any more" ;) .
bottom line, if it was a 350 or even a 383, I'd say 200's will be fine, but with a 406 and the cam you have chosen, i would not hesitate on the 220's (in fact i didn't).
As for intake, again gearing/trans are a big variable. I went with a world motown single plane and love it, but its hard to beat the performer rpm for a car that sees more street than strip, and is geared or stalled accordingly.
good luck with it, I don't think you'll be disappointed either way.

Good choice on heads, I think you'll like them.
as for size, what are the specifics on your rear gearing and what trans?

M21 4 speed, 3.73 rear gear

ok, If you plan on growing some down the road, especially, I would go with the 220's personally.
500/500 and a 4 speed, that things going to be a blast to drive :D

ok, If you plan on growing some down the road, especially, I would go with the 220's personally.
500/500 and a 4 speed, that things going to be a blast to drive :D
I sure hope so :)

I agree on the 220 heads.