I posted this in a different forum, but someone told me I should post it here instead. If I should remove it from the other one so as to not clog up the site let me know how to do it and I will. Here's the post (Originally posted as "Mid Life Crisis"):

Here goes: I am going to finally make the plunge. I’ve waited 30+ years to own one, and now it’s going to come to pass. So, if you wouldn’t mind, I need some help. I just began my quest for a Camaro about a month ago and, already, I’m anxious. I have only looked at one car, and I saw another online fairly close to my town. In my mind, I already have it narrowed to these 2 as choices to pick from. I know there’s hundreds out there to choose from, but impatience is getting the best of me. Keep in mind that I know absolutely nothing about cars so I’m on my own.

Car #1 – (I got to see and drive this one) – 68 SS. It’s been owned by the same guy for over 25 years.
- 350 4 bolt, 308 posi, orig 4 speed 10 bolt…. Mostly original car
- Small scratch / dent in the driver door, a little larger one in the rear quarter panel
- He crashed it into a telephone pole one year after he had it (1982). Replaced the front end with an RS front. Did a restore at that time
- Interior restored recently with RS interior – Nice job
- When he replaced the carpet, he noticed a few small rot holes… so he fiberglassed the entire floorpan.
- Front disc brakes
- RS Headlights need new vacuum switches
- Paint is faded
- No rust that I can see, other than surface rust in the trunk
- Engine compartment needs a good cleaning and painting
It drives, sounds and looks (what Camaro doesn’t?) good. Other than that I don’t know specifics. Asking $17,000.00

Car #2 – 69 SS. Also has had 3 owners. I haven’t seen it yet, but am planning to see it this Sunday. I say pics and it looks really straight. Here’s some specifics (as per the owner):
- 1969 Camaro SS in great condition. It's an older restoration but in great shape. EVERYTHING WORKS. NO RUST (has pictures of the body restoration process)
- Originally 350 with a 4-speed converted it to an auto
- 68,000 miles
- Previous owner had it garaged for 16 years.
- During resto there were a few very minor body rot areas that were welded and grinded down before the finish work was done… No fill bondo
- New parts: all emblems/badges, all door, roofrail, trunk weatherstripping, window felts and chromes, wheel well chromes (not installed), hood adjusters, rear louvers, new front spoiler.
- An original GM cowl induction hood that works (not original to the car), original rear spoiler.
- Nice interior - Auto Meter Monster tach which is bolted to the plastic riser NOT to the body. The original console gauge cluster was replaced with an aftermarket Auto Meter cluster
- B&M shifter and a manual "lock-up" for the torque converter
- GM crate ZZ4 with 385 horsepower. Ported aluminum heads and intake which bump it up to 385 HP/410 TQ. The motor has less than 20,000 miles - 750 Holley. The HEI that came with the motor was replaced with an MSD distributor, coil and box. The headers are full length Hooker racing headers with 3 chamber flowmasters and dump out the back.
- GM 700R4 which was added at the same time as the crate motor.The crossmember is the correct GM part as well as the carburetor brackets are all GM parts. The gear ratios for the transmission are: 1st 3.06:1, 2nd 1.63:1, 3rd 1:1, 4th 0.7:1.
- The rear end was also changed out at the same time as the rest of the drivetrain and is a 10 bolt out of an early seventies Nova. It was rebuilt with a posi unit and 2.73 gears.
- The front end has cut coil springs ---- has a new set of Hotchkis springs and shocks he will include. The car came originally with power steering and power disc brakes. The brakes have been changed out to four wheel corvette C4 disc brakes in the FRONT AND REAR!. The rearend leaf springs are stock multi-leaf springs.

He is asking $18,000 for this.

My dilemma is that A. I have no idea what I’m looking at and, B. I have no idea which is a better value. I kow it kind of comes down to what I like, etc. but, given the fact that this is going to be my first, I want to do it right. Any comments, suggestions, or diatribes would be welcome.

Steve

I would buy the 69 hands down..:thumbsup: ...just my .02

I like the body lines on them all 67,68, and 69..

what part of central california are you in?

I'm in Modesto.... how about you?

OOPS...... just saw your address..... Fresno. Maybe you could help me out? The '69 I am going to look is IN FRESNO!

1st the mid life crisis thing...load feminists ganging up to critise our total normality in a bad light...hell I enjoyed, still enjoy my midlife crisis and no one is going to screw it up for me.
At mid life, we can afford the time and money to do those things we dreamed about and couldnt do cause we where working too hard, too long to get to where we are now. and it sort of crept up on us cause we where too busy to notice...what is wrong with that lol
The only real difference to then and now is our toys get bigger, and we are wiser...know what we want to do AND dont do..."like I know absolutely nothing about cars so I’m on my own."
So if the 1st one seems a bit 'dodgy' ...u get the gut feeling thru your yrs of becoming wise, .... fibire glass?? floor-rust-lots?bad- hassle, engine I know I can get one in a box that easy, do up a few bolts the right tightness...body stuff..hmm dont know where to start.
Get a good straight body, good interior, a paint job that will do ok for now...
Get the chassis alighnment/suspenstion arms/ dif checked checked,
Bushes steering arms tie rod ends etc are again like engine buy replace do up the correct amount. no biggy.
Do not chew off more than u can handle and you will have your dream that u forgot about all those yrs ago

Dream- I am here in Riverbank. I am always looking at the cars for sale here in the area. I am no expert either, but if you need help with anything let me know. I check craigs list every day. Also look at Cars.com. It shows you all newspaper classified adds in our area. I will keep my eyes peeled for a nice car in your price range. There is plenty of cars for sale in that price range too, so the longer you shop the better car you can find. Try not to get in too big of a hurry. If I have the time I wouldn't mind going to look at a car with you depending on how far away it is. For what its worth if two cars are in identical shape sitting side by side for sale (in our area atleast) the 69 seems to go for more money. Let me know if you need help. Darren. Ridn250d@yahoo.com

I would take my time because you might have to live with your choice for a long time.
These cars are money pits so be careful. If you are not looking for matching numbers etc you will save a lot of money. If you want something to have fun with and be able to dive around in you will also save tons of money. The biggest cost will be body work! If you are not sure get a pro to go with you. It may cost you a couple of hundred but it can save you thousands in the long run.
Schoon

Dreamweaver, if you haven't seen it, take a look at this one:
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77178&page=2
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-1968-Camaro-Original-Matching-Numbers_W0QQitemZ4626729030QQcategoryZ6161QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Car belongs to a member here, and it's a sweety and very solid. Ebay auction fell a lil short of reserve so it's still available.

Here is the ad for the car Jim metioned in the TC classified area.
http://www.camaros.net/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7723&sort=1&cat=43&page=1
I cant believe it didnt hit the reserve on ebay. Well worth the asking price and a better value than both cars you described in my opinion. I, like others mentioned, wouldnt rush into it to much. Just because the two cars you mention are fairly close to you doesnt make them the right cars. We have all been there, know how exciting it is finally getting that car. The excitement can often beat out reason and cause folks to buy a car they maybe shouldnt have. As far the 68 you mention, no real way to know its an SS. You mention its has the original 10 bolt in it..that would indicate that its not a real SS car. Good luck!

Between the two choices you mentioned I would take more interest in the 69. I don't like how the fully fiberglassed floor pan and dents on the body of the 68 sound. It leads me to believe the owner took some short cuts along the way, who knows what else might pop up. I understand many people use fiberglass but just not my preference. I would offer $16,500 for the 69 and haggle from there.
P.S. I also like the ZZ4, the 700R4 and the disc brakes. Those will make the car alot more enjoyable to drive.

Being impatient, and not knowing what to look for, is going to get you burned. The '68 that you describe is a 10K project car, not a 17K car. For 18K to 22K you should be able to get a very nice 'show and shine' quality car. There are a lot of cars available in California, don't buy one based on the first two that you look at.

Dream...buy the 69. Demand for 69's is generally greater than 68's. If the 69 is close to what you describe, 18k is a very good price.

WOW! You can't imagine how much I appreciate everything that has been written in all these replies. I don't even own one yet, ( I have never even owned any muscle car) , but I am going to become a paid member anyway. I can already tell that this a class bunch of people. I'm not a "joiner", and I'm not into chat roms, forums and the like. I just happened by this site accidentally while on my quest for knowledge to try and make an informed decision before I leap into it, and all of your comments have helped set me straight. I am definately an obsessive/compulsive, and I almost did buy the first one I looked at. Then I saw that '69 on Craigslist, and I told myself, "I'll buy this one." Now I am going to take my time and seek the help of others.

RE: thorpe67rs link to the classified ad--- Nothing shows up there. I get the following:
"Product ID is no longer in our database...." Is that he same one that JimM is pointing me to?

RE: JimM's link to the "sweety" --- Is that referencing Domano '68? It's a blue '68 Sport Coupe? I thought it was sold???

RE: 67 CamaroD --- Thank you for your offer. I would love to have someone help. You can reach me at northave@sbcglobal.net

All others - Thank you for the words of wisdom and stern advice. It won't be for naught. Continuing the search.............

I do not believe Domano68's car has sold yet, I'd think he's be telling us all about it if it did. Donny's car is VERY nice. He's been with us since he bought it, what, 2-3 years ago?? if there were any issues, we'd be the second to know...lol, cause he'd be asking us how to fix it...lol.

As for joiners, and forums, and chats, well this place is VERY addicting. In the 7 years I've been here, over 7000 posts, and recently been honored to be asked to moderate, well, I've made dozen and dozens of real friends, and I just can't seem to stay away from this place more than an hour or 2 at a time. Next summer, I'm driving my 68 on a 2600 mile round trip just to hoist a few brewskis with some of the guys I've met here!

JimM: Just did a mapquest. It's about 2290 miles from Domano's place to mine. How about I buy you a ticket, fly you to Alabama, buy you some beer, and you drive it to California (without the beer). Then, deliver me the car, more beer, and back on a plane (if you're not flying it, go for another cold one) to wherever you live. You get the best of all worlds:
1. Beer
2. Meet a TC member
3. Drive across country, not putting miles on your car
4. More beer
5. Meet a greenhorn and rub it in
6. More beer

lmao.... actually I'd get to meet 2 TC members! Maybe 3 if you count Donny's baby. Too bad I have to work for a living.

There are other options tho, for transportation. People have cars trucked across the country all the time.

69CamaroFast: Here's the link to the '69 ---

http://fresno.craigslist.org/car/145114541.html

It's in Fresno. Wanna meet with me when I go to look at it? I asked him if her would meet me halfway in Merced, and he agreed. But, if I could have someone like you who knows what the heck they're looking at, it would definately be worth my while to go another 45 minutes to Fresno. Would be willing to pay you for your time, take you to lunch, whatever. Let me know,

Steve

Any ideas on what it would cost to truck a car 2300 miles? Like buying a car, any ideas on who is reputable and who to stay away from?

Here I go again, ignoring all the advice everyone gave me about being patient, and now I'm getting anxious about this car now. My obsessive/compulsive nature is overwhelming. If that car is still available, I might just go for it.... and all I can see is a picture of it! HELP!!! This can't be healthy - but it sure is fun! I'm wrecked. I have had prcatically no sleep, little food, and almost no work in the last 3 days. This is insane. I think I had better get a Camaro soon or they'll have to lock me up.

Dreamweaver: If you are looking to spend about 18K, I would SERIOUSLY consider Domano68's car, if it hasn't been sold. I think he was asking about 19K ? This is a really nice car....what I can see from the pics and description, it needs NOTHING!! I would guess that this is at least a 23k car. Where you state the you are not a wrencher, I really think his is a great car for the $$. I would stay away from car #1, if the floors were fiberglassed, you have to wonder what else was "mickey moused" on the car that you can't see. :thumbsup:

Thanks 67 convertible: Your sentiments go along with others'. I have sent Domano an email. We'll see what happens......To be continued.

another thing worth mentioning... anyone looking to purchase a car from a member would be wise to go into advanced search, search for threads started by that member. Odds are it will pull up a pretty complete history of the car during the time it's owner was hanging out here.

Here's an updated link to the car in question:
http://www.camaros.net/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7727&sort=1&cat=43&page=1

Consider that the two cars you listed will be much faster than the 327/powerglide. Consider you objectives carefully before spending the money. Do you want original or modified? Tire burning or cruising? 4sp or automatic? Don't buy until you know the answers. just my opinion.

Hey GOOD NEWS.. I just made Domano68 an offer on his car and he accepted. SWEET! Just kidding dreamweaver...dont have a heart attack! :D I am a very impulsive buyer as well and know how hard it can be to step back and take some time to be 100% sure its the right decision.
Sounds like youve made the first step towards doing that. Again, good luck with whatever car you decide to go with. And most importantly, remember, buying the car is only the beginning of the cash you will dump into it. Its an addiction.

Hey GOOD NEWS.. I just made Domano68 an offer on his car and he accepted. SWEET! Just kidding dreamweaver...dont have a heart attack! :D I am a very impulsive buyer as well and know how hard it can be to step back and take some time to be 100% sure its the right decision.
Sounds like youve made the first step towards doing that. Again, good luck with whatever car you decide to go with. And most importantly, remember, buying the car is only the beginning of the cash you will dump into it. Its an addiction.

You dog! I read the first line and I did feel my heart drop.... er, would the correct nomenclature be "LOWERED" here?

I think the car being sold by Domano68 is definately worth what he is asking. You could probably get him to spring for the shipping too if you offered him full price. The shipping would be between 1200 and 2000, depending on the shipper and open or enclosed trailer. I would personally recommend paying the extra for enclosed, especially this time of year.

WOW! You can't imagine how much I appreciate everything that has been written in all these replies. I don't even own one yet, ( I have never even owned any muscle car) ,
Well u have already made the best desistion in your project and most prob the best u will ever make regarding it.
Too often ppl decide to buy a project, rod whatever, I always suggest to join the club 1st, because listening to these guys, the support u get will advoid the mistake of a dud that most make regardless of age. 9 times out of 10 not doing so they end up with a dud which either kills the dream or the wallet.
The general comment when I make this suggestion is "I want to get the car 1st then join" or in other words they let their ego get in the way and want to just turn up with a good potentual car. When this happens the responce more often than not is a polite "lot of work in that one" And they usually dont take the advice and screw up...Something your are doing the best not to.
Guys in clubs have 'been there done that" screwed up made the mistakes know the heart ache and learnt.

My advice to u...take up the offers of help from the guys above, to go look at cars together...damn good REAL friendships are built, across all sorts of income brackets, social levels etc.
I am looking at a 2/3 restored Bradford (rang up last night) thats down country...so its going to be a 'boys day out' for group of us to go down form the Jowett car club, tell a few tall tales on the way, and when we get there, I listen to there no BS opinions etc...I then can make a better call as to if Im going to part with my money.
I mentioned across social lines...well Im a hot rodder mentality, they are older 60s /70s vintage guys...sure we have different outlooks on how to do things, give each other a bit of stick...all in good humour. Makes a trip fun and one to remeber fondly.

My advice to u...take up the offers of help from the guys above, to go look at cars together

Steptoe:

I have a huge ego, but not when it comes to something I am ignorant about. In this case, I am a fish out of water. But I wanna swim with th e big boys, so I am willing to put myself into bootcamp.

I don't really see any additional value to joining now vs. waiting until I get the car I buy. You people are doing your best to look out for me, a total stranger, and help me not make a mistake. That's all i really want right now. The reason I will join now is just because I think this website deserves whatever support it can get. Even though I do not, nor have I ever, owned one, I feel my own passion for a Camaro and, since I will eventually become part of the "brotherhood" (although a junior member in diapers at that), I just want to offer support to those who have obviously dedicated a great deal towards the betterment of people who share a passion for such a unique object of desire.... Camaros.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, and I have already had 2 people respond who have showed an interest in helping me out. One lives in the same town as I do, the other about 15 minutes away. Who'd of thunk it?

Gotta go...... looking for my credit card......... THERE IT IS! Going to pay my dues. Thanks again, and keep those words of wisdom coming,

Steve

I would like to add just one suggestion...

Don't buy a car without seeing it in person first. Of course it's your decision, but I would never buy a car for 18+ without seeing it in person. Pictures can hide a lot of things! There should be a good number of nice cars in your area, why pay $1500 to ship a car you've never seen? You can use that money towards a nicer car, parts, or gas! I also think you can find much better than the 2 you pointed out for that price range.

It would be a good idea to take up the offer of those guys willing to help you look at local cars. That's the way I would go.

GOOD LUCK MAN!

I'm sure Steptoe was using the "join" word figuratively. Everyone who's taken the time to get a user id so they can post is a "member" of Team Camaro. The paid memberships are new here recently, the site has gotten so big (read expensive) it was no longer practical as a totally free hobby for the owner. Many of us who've been Team Camaro members for a long time jumped at the chance to support "our" site, but you don't have to pay to be a member here!

Thanks Jim. I realize that. I still would like to contribute. I figure that just the advice I've gotten so far is worth the $20.00. Anyone who would frequent this site to gain knowledge, insight, tips or help should consider it chicken feed to pay $20.00 to get htis kind of help and knowledge. So...... all you freeloaders out there who might have been sucking info and knowledge out of this site, K'MON! Pony up (sic) and PAY THE $20.00!
http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon11.gif

haha, lets wait 6 months to outgrow the server again before we put on the hard sell. If anyones noticed, Al did some serious work last week, the site's been flatout flying! No more "server busy" and no more waiting for a search or a post, I love it!

69CamaroFast: Here's the link to the '69 ---

http://fresno.craigslist.org/car/145114541.html

It's in Fresno. Wanna meet with me when I go to look at it? I asked him if her would meet me halfway in Merced, and he agreed. But, if I could have someone like you who knows what the heck they're looking at, it would definately be worth my while to go another 45 minutes to Fresno. Would be willing to pay you for your time, take you to lunch, whatever. Let me know,

Steve
Dream, that 69 looks great..are you still here?

Akive & kickin'............

I'm sure Steptoe was using the "join" word figuratively
Yep but to be honest...I wasnt refering to the site here, rather the local hot Rod /car club lol.

In real life Im sort of an old fashioned black and white hard nut lol

Sure I give out my thoughts etc (dont take this wrong ok) I realy dont give a Damn if ppl take notice, ignore what ever...I take the attitude:
If u are over 18, your are a 'trainee adult" and have the right to do as u will, and I can say "u didnt listen to "uncle Steps"
If u are over 21 u are are and adult, do what u want, I realy dont care, thats your right to do so and I dont intend to step on that persons freedom of choice...Remember Im a Kiwi, so we think a little different down under lol
"U" means ppl in general ok?

Cheers
Steps

The price is different but is this one of the cars you are looking at ? I wonder if it is because the ad only says SS but it does have an RS front and rear end...don't know what the interior looks like but if that is numbers matching I believe that car has serious potential to be real nice

http://www.craigslist.org/eby/car/148017681.html

Thunder: I'm about 99.9% sure that is the 68 I looked at.... it has to be. Here's what happened:

I know the owner as an acquaintenence through one of my daughters... he is the father of her classmate. By accident I got to talking with him about 10 days agop and he told me he had this car. THAT'S when my mania started.

I was in his neighborhood, called him up, and went over to his house to see it. He showed it to me, took me for a spin, and that's when I got hooked.

I told him I had been looking around on Craigslist and he said he was probably going to list it on it. I guess this is it. It is not a numbers matching car. He sold the engine out of it a while back. Do still you think it's worth it? Anyone?

I have pretty much excluded this one out of my decision process. I have 2 that I'm considering right now, but am learning patience. Thanks for the info... I didn't know it was there.

Edit 10 minutes later:

I just realized..... he didn't list in our city (Modesto), but only listed it on San Francisco, which is 1 1/2 hour away. Interesting, eh?

The price is different but is this one of the cars you are looking at ? I wonder if it is because the ad only says SS but it does have an RS front and rear end...don't know what the interior looks like but if that is numbers matching I believe that car has serious potential to be real nice

http://www.craigslist.org/eby/car/148017681.html

Wow, 20K for that car, I had better raise the price of mine. JK, Steve. :)
So you guys are talking about my car over here, huh? You better be saying only good things.

Would anyone here in my area be willing to look at my Camaro and give Steve thier unbiased opinion of my car? I am currently looking for a local appraisal service at Steve's request but have not found anything as of yet.

He'll probably never get it. He offered it to me for 17k out of the gate. I am undoubtedly the least knowledgeable of all here at TC about what I am talking about, but this I know:

If Domano 68's car worth 19K, this car can't be worth more than $13K-$15K. Maybe it is worth 17K, and Domano 68's is worth 20k, but I saw this car. Just from the pics of D's car vs. what I saw with my own eyes on the other '68, there has to be a $3000 to $5000 difference between the two... there HAS to be.

Anyway, it's all moot. Value is in the eyes of the buyer.

Hey D--- did you get my email?

P.S. - I would be willing to pay someone to look at Domano 68's car.

P.S.S. - Anyone know the record for thread length started by a greenhorn newbie?

Hey D--- did you get my email?

Yes sir, I just sent you a reply.

P.S.S. - Anyone know the record for thread length started by a greenhorn newbie?

You still have a ways to go..but your off to a good start :thumbsup: Also looks like your addiction to this site is well underway. Ive accepted my addiction and i am at peace with it. :D

Dreamweaver -

I think the record for a thread by a newbie was one a year or so back by a woman with a user name like High Heelz n Hot Wheelz. She made Senior Tech in about half a day.

dreamweaver,...still have the "69" on your mind?

Yes, still interested

I do not believe Domano68's car has sold yet, I'd think he's be telling us all about it if it did. Donny's car is VERY nice. He's been with us since he bought it, what, 2-3 years ago?? if there were any issues, we'd be the second to know...lol, cause he'd be asking us how to fix it...lol.

As for joiners, and forums, and chats, well this place is VERY addicting. In the 7 years I've been here, over 7000 posts, and recently been honored to be asked to moderate, well, I've made dozen and dozens of real friends, and I just can't seem to stay away from this place more than an hour or 2 at a time. Next summer, I'm driving my 68 on a 2600 mile round trip just to hoist a few brewskis with some of the guys I've met here!

Jim,
I'm new to the forum, and like dreamweaver, I'm not into the "joiners' that your refer to. I do think that the forum is a good place to share info and I suspect I will benefit from reading through posts form folks that are car enthusiasts. By the way, I would take dreamweaver up on his offer, especially items 1,4 and 6. Also, if you ever get out to the Maryland, Washington DC area on your excursion, I'd be more than happy to hoist a few cold ones with you.

Hey dream, I can tell you from my experience on buying a first gen, be PATIENT!!! I have had a few Camaros and Chevy II's in my life and you can trick yourself into buying something that looks good on top but nasty underneath. I live in Delaware and I looked for a first gen for almost 3 years. I first figured out what I wanted and started looking.

Here was my criteria for my quest-

1969 RS w/big block and automatic
Black w/white stripes and black interior.
completely finished except possibly something minor.

This is what I ended up with
1969 RS with a 454 and a tremec 5 speed
Black with white stripes with custom black interior
completely done except for minor changes.



Put TCI turbo 400 in and put the power steering back on. Which the previous owner threw in on deal. Car came from Georgia. I sent an appraiser to look at car. Afterwards we struck a deal. The owner even delivered the car to about 150 mileS from my home. Everyone was happy. Especially me. If you send me your email address I will send pics of car to you. I do not know how to put pics from my email on here. Computer illiterate.
Good luck in your search

How did you find an appraiser? I need one in Alabama and not sure where to stard looking???
northave@sbcglobal.net

How did you find an appraiser? I need one in Alabama and not sure where to stard looking???
northave@sbcglobal.net

You can do a search on the internet. This was a quick search below. I know there is one near you.

http://www.larryboardman.com

HI guys! Sorry I have been out of touch, but Vacation has gotten in the way of what'S REALLY important.... buying a Camaro I have a 1 day break, then back onto the road for the next 5 days (with no Camaro... just the mini-van http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif ). Here's the current:

I still don't know anything about cars http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon11.gif but some TC members have been very kind to me and doing their best to help. Mostly, thanks to 69Camarofast for his offers to look at a car for me in person, and to EVERYONE who has offered tidbits of advice and encouragement.... it means a lot.

OK, here we go:

The '68 that I first mentioned, the one with the fiberglassed floors.... that one's out. Thanks for the tips.... helped make my decision.
The '69 in Fresno that I posted a link to --- that one is still in the hunt. Haven't seen it yet, but am seriously looking at it.
Domano's car - Definately still in the hunt. I have laid plans to try to have it inspected by a professional in Alabama. I can't afford the time to go out there and try to inspect it myself (not that I would know what I was looking at anyway :)
There's a "new kid" in town.... a '69 RS in Las Vegas. Vegas is only a 1 hour flight for me, and I can do a day trip and be home for supper. I am trying to locate people in the Vegas area who might be willing and able to go look at it with me. So far I could only find one.
I might buy 2!!! I might go for 68 and a '69. It's all your fault! If it wans't for you I would probably be happy with just one but, after all the interaction about Domano's car, the posts about "get what you want", etc. I might end up with more than my wife bargained for. I'll just tell her to join "TD" (Team Decorating) and she'll be fine. lolAnyone out there know how I can find TC members in Vegas? I tried by clicking the "search" tool and typing in "Vegas" in the search field. I found a lot of posts, but could only find one member in Vegas so far .... there must be a thousand posts to go through.... must be a quicker way??

JimM - Thanks for the tip - I did the search on Domano's posts as you suggested. Very helpful. What I found is that everything he posted was about minor things... nothing major. A big plus in my opinion.

Camarorsconv - Thanks for the advice. All taken to heart, helped me in clarifying and solidifying things in my mind

502prostreet - Thanks fo rthe advice and the tips. I have my feelers out to find an appraiser. PS - Nice Car!

...........to be continued.
Dream the Dream

Dreamweaver,

I received your e-mail and will send a detailed response later tonight. I'll be happy to help in any way I can. You can search for members in the forum using the "members" link in the red bar at the top of the page.

Rick

Thanks RSS - I can't go to that section yet because I am not a paid member.... yet. I am waiting for Admin to call me to take my credit card info.... I don't like putting cc info on the internet, and then I will be able to get to that part of TC. Until then, it's "Hunt & Peck".

My mistake. You have to log in and then click on the "users list" link. You don't have to be a paying member to use this feature.

Rick

dreamweaver, say the word and I will go look at the car in Fresno. By the way I PM'd you.

Please dont take this the wrong way...as i am only offering constructive advice. If you dont know anything about these cars..which you have said yourself, you might want to reconsider buying 2 right away. I gurantee no matter how "done" you think they are they will very likely consume much more in time and money than you could imagine. Just a friendly suggestion to start with 1 and go from there. Unless money is not an issue at all and you are just going to hire everything done by a professional when things need to be done. Otherwise i would walk before you run. Again, just a thought that might prove helpful.

RSS - Thanks for Tip #2 --- That worked! I have PM'd a handful of them... we'll see what happens. Looking forward to your email tonight.

Gary L - Got your PM. I am in the process of reading through the site you gave me a link to. Good stuff! Will reply to your PM later tonight. Thanks... gotta go.... gotta read.... gotta learn.... gotta buy lol

Oh....... Thorpe......... almost forgot: RE "Please dont take this the wrong way..."
No offense taken. I appreciate the advice. I will have to have everything done for me, at least in the beginning, so it will be expensive. That being understood, and knowing my limitations, it will be taken into consideration before the final verdict is made.

One more bit of advice.....And I know this first hand...trust me!

Be ready to pull the trigger at anytime....these cars are hard to come by...and the best cars and the best deals generally go quickly....I waited on several really nice cars and they wound up getting sold out from under me. So be prepared and have the funds in place...just in case!

Related side note: I recently sold a documented 69 SS/RS 396 (to a TC member) who was the second person to come look at it....the first person called back the next day after inspecting it and decided that he wanted it too....well it was too late....and the guy was upset & pretty PO'd....but hey, the first guy with the cash is always gonna own it!!


Dan

Update:
I am going to Fresno tomorrow to look at the 69 mentioned. Thanks to Chris / aka 69CamaroFast and Gary L for the offers to help me. Chris is actually going to go with me on Easter Sunday to look at it, and Gary said he would help me decipher what it really is. Very kind offers and I appreciate it.

I talked to the owner again on Friday and he told me that he is not sure that is a true SS or not. Something about dual fuel or vacuum lines, and a couple of other things that I didn't understand.

Question: Once it is determined that it is or it is not an SS, what do you think the value should be? In other words, based on what you know of the car from the description, if it is not a true SS, how much of the price / value is diminished? I know it's all about "what I want", etc. but I am curious as to how much additional value an authentic SS holds over a coupe that was cloned.

Also, any suggestions as to what to look for to determine it's authenticity of being an SS?

we bought this not to long ago..found it out in a field..i started working on it...but i have a long way to go..

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/69camarofast/PICT4278.jpg

Update:

Well, Chris (69CamaroFast) and Gary (Gary L) were both kind enough to meet with me to look at the car..........ON EASTER SUNDAY!I'm beginning to think that I may have been missing out on some important things in the past. These guys took time
ON A SUNDAY
ON EASTER
WITH A TOTAL STRANGER (me)
To help me make sense of what I was looking at. Good thing. Since I am:

A. Obsessive / Compulsive
B. Impatient
C. Totally ignorant

I might have made a mistake. As it turns out this is just not the right car for me. So, moving on, still on the quest, looking to fufill a dream. Thanks guys........... to be continued.

P.S. Can I post a pic if I am not a paid member yet? (Should be a paid member by tomorrow). If so, tell me how. Would like to post a pic or two of one in Clovis that is for sale.

That car looks really nice, what was wrong with it? I am looking for a '69 also.

Thanks.

I don't think there's anything really wrong with it. I just think it is probably not the right car for me. It's been modified somewhat. For me, if I am going to learn how to work on these myself, I probably need to start with something a little more "stock". It was definately a cool car, and probably a great car for the right person. I'm still going to sleep on it, though. Who knows.... maybe I'll wake up and decide it is the right one http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif we'll see.

Update:

So, I didn't go for the 69 in Fresno. So I'm off on the mission again. Here's one I found.... let me know what you think:

I have too many cars & one must go. I have a 1969 Camaro Convertible 307 V8, Auto,True X-11 Project for sale. I was told this car is matching numbers but I have not verified it. I bought this car in Ohio & recently came across the 69 convertible I always wanted so I have to let this one go.

This car is a running & driving car however I wouldn’t trust it down my street it has been of the road since 1992. It needs lower quarter skins & outer wheelwells there is rust in the drivers door, front fenders & a small section in the trunk area.

The good news is the floors, rockers, & supports ARE SOLID. This car came with the rare azure turquoise with white standerd interior (VERY RARE COLOR COMBINATION). The car has had one repaint over the years. The car has a lot of potential to be a BITCHEN street machine. With a litle work one could be cruzing soon... I would keep it if I could but I can’t have them all.

The first person that shows me $17,900 cash OBO takes it. Please no bull SH&T people. I will only show you the car if you have a trailer & the $$$. That’s the deal. I want to see that your a serious qualified buyer. I have a clear Ohio title in my possession. This car will NOT last long.

Any and all comments welcome.

I don't like his attitude. Let him keep his 18K dollar project car. Keep looking.

I appreciate the response. Question:

Attitude aside.... if the car is what he says it is, is it:

A. A bad deal
B. A fair deal
C. A good deal
D. A killer deal

Since I'm not going to marry the guy, I can handle a bit of "'tude" for a day. I am, however, learning how to be more patient. http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

C...Steve I just emailed you about this car! :) Mike

I'd say a base model 69 vert that probably needs a complete restoration would be worth in the neighborhood of 15K. If it were a SS model, it would be considerably higher, IMHO.............KZ

He sent me a reply.... well, actually, it was just an auto-responder message. Gave me his phone number, when to call, etc. Here was my email to hi. Did I forget anything?

I have the cash… if you want a bank reference I can show you that I am qualified.

Trailer is not a problem… I have friends.


I am going to buy a 69 Camaro. A convertible was kind of out of the budget, but this one may work. Here are some questions:

Is this a Norwood car or an LA Car?
Does it have the cowl tag?
Do you have any other documentation?... Protecto plate, etc.
Is the title in your name?
Would you be willing to give me the vin # in advance of me coming to Santa Cruz so I can verify it’s authenticity? Can you send me the tag info so I can research it in advance?
What can you tell me about the condition of the engine, transmission, rear end and other major components?
I have a good friend in the area who would look at the car for me. I live in Modesto (about 3 hours away). Would you be willing to allow my friend to pre-inspect it for me? If so, and he gives me the green light, I will make an appointment with you, with cash and trailer in hand, to come and preview / buy / haul the car away.
Can you provide any additional pics. The more the better. Specifically:
Interior
Floorboards
Trunk
Underbody
Specific problem areas (rust, dents)
Dash and windowsills
Other
Please let me know via either email or by phone.

Thanks,

Steve Goldstein

not that that'sa bad thing, but this guy is a trader, lookin to make some coin flipping a car.

Note he says he has an Ohio title?
So he bought it and did not transfer.

Car is said to be numbers matching but he hasn't verified?
ands I got a bridge to sell you.

Really need to see pics but seems like a lotta $$$ for the conditon as described. Perhaps it looks better than he says? Perhaps 69 verts are worth more this year?

How much for the bridge? Thinking it might be easier to get one of those that a 69 Camaro :)

18k to buy it + 25k to restore it (if you hire it done as you mention earlier) = 43k. I vote keep looking unless you have the time and know how to restore it yourself. Just my opinion.

Gone sold...Maybe Dreamweaver got it...Verts for sale don't last long...
http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/car/152756270.html
here is the orginal add;
http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/car/152537240.html

Here is a car that might be worth checking out...

http://www.cars-on-line.com/19581.html

It is only a 3 hour drive from you and seems to be a pretty good deal.

Here is a car that might be worth checking out...

http://www.cars-on-line.com/19581.html

It is only a 3 hour drive from you and seems to be a pretty good deal.

So, here's one of the things that really throw me:

What is a clone? I mean, I see cars all over the map as regards to degrees of seperation from "stock". Here's what I see:

First, there's a car like Donny's car (Domano 68) which, to me, seemed like a near-perfect stock car. All numbers matching, etc.
Then you have cars that are "stock", except they originally had a 327 in it and it gets replaced with a 396 or something. Maybe ot was originally a 4 sp and it had an auto put in it.
Then maybe you have cars that were originally a 6 cyl, but the 6 got ripped out and replaced with an 8 cyl, upgraded the transmission, etc. etc.
Then there are the ones that have been changed from a standard coupe into an RS or an SS.
Then there are street rods, cars that have been "tubbed" (whatever that means), and all other variations of modification.When I see ads I say to myself, "Gee.... I wonder if this is a good deal"? It seems as if there is some sort of valuation methodology, but I can't figure it out??? I see that a "True SS", "True RS", etc. is more valuable than a clone. And a Yenko clone is worth more than a 68 all-original 327 numbers match. But an SS Clone may not be worth more than an RS original? It seems confusing. Here's one posted by Scott Taylor (thanks Scott) which, to me, seems like it may be a pretty good deal. But what criteria, what baseline standards are established that will allow me to determine for myself if it's a ripoff or a fair deal? What's a clone?

That 69 vert that was posted by Zuma last night was "Gone in 60 seconds" (actually about 6 hours after it was posted on Craigslist). The guy replied back to me that he was inundated with replies. After some words of wisdom from one of the TC members I determined that this was probably over way my head considering my lack of experience. But, somebody thought it was a good deal. He got 18k for a project car, and there are "done" cars (like the one posted by Scott") that can sit for days, weeks and months before they're gone.

My conclusion is that those that know what they are doing can spot a good deal when they see it, and there are those who, because of their ignorance, wouldn't recorgize true value if it punched them in the face. I put myself in the latter category. I need somebody to say "shoot" before I pull the trigger. Ane, even then, I'll do so with hesitancy.

A car is said to be a clone when it is built up to be a model that it didn't leave the factory as. Typically clones are SS or RS or SS/RS cars that were originally base 327 or six cylinder cars. In the process of restoring the car the owner "upgraded" the car to a high performance model like an SS/RS. The clones are typically worth less than the originals but if you just want a fun car to drive and show on the local level they are great. Dont expect to win a point judged competition with one though.

Ain't this fun!!!!

After near 40 years, these cars have been thru a lot, and each and everyone of them is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay at any particular time. You, the prospective buyer, determine the value of a car, at the moment that your offer is accepted.

Because these cars have been thru so much, there are many different variations to choose from.

"base cars" are always worth less. RS cars are worth more then base cars.
"Real" SS's and Z's are worth the most.
Verts are worth more than coupes.
Most of the time, a base car that has been made to look like an SS is worth more than a base car that is perfectly restored.
ANY and EVERY one will be worth more tomorrow than it is today.

Cars may be billed as "original" (Clicks car would be called original. Donny's too.)
A "numbers matching" car still has the same engine it came from the factory with when new.
"Restored" would be a car that has been rebuilt completely but kept stock. It can cost a LOT of money to do this right, and often, particularly with a base car, the "value" might not match what was spent.
"Restified" is a relatively new term used to describe cars that have been "restored but improved" with modern wheels and tires and a modern or upgraded drivetrain. (Dennis's White Wonder is such a car.)
Then you have the modified street machine type car, such as Brian Lewis's sharp 69. These cars would have more performance mods than say a "restified" car.
And of course a "clone" or "recreation", a car that has been made to resemble a model it is not, such as a Z or SS. Even this can be done in lots of degrees. There are lots of "Z28" and "COPO" clones that are as exact a replica as possible, correctly dated parts and everything as perfect as it can be made. It costs an enomous amount of time and money to do this "right" and in my opinion, the people that do these deserve a tremendous amount of respect, unless they try to pass it off as real for profit. Or the base Camaro, with an aftermarket 350, cowl hood, Z stripes and a couple of emblems. Hard to call that a "clone", but it looks like a Z.

And then you have various combinations of the above. Is my car "restified" or "modified" or a "clone" or "original"?
It is a base vert and still has it's original engine block. It's painted, striped, and emblemed to look like an SS. The suspension and drivetrain and engine compartment have been extensively modified, the block itself is the only peice of the original motor still under the hood. The interior is brand enw and "stock" but is all reproduction parts, not much at all left that was made by GM....

What "kind" of car do you want?
and how much do you want to pay?
and how much will you have to pay?

When you see the right car, you'll know. It will call to you.

"What "kind" of car do you want?"

I guess the ultimate would be a SS/RS orig, but that may be more than I want to spend on a first car. I know I want a 69, and I would prefer an SS over an RS. But I think I would be happy with either. I want something that doesn't need a ton of "specialized" restoration required (body work), a car that runs well, maybe needs some interior, something that can be a "learn as you go" project that I can drive and enjoy as I become more edumecated (lol).

Process of elimination - It may be easier for me to determine what I don't want than what I do. I know I don't want a car that's been so modified that I have to become a detective to fix or replace something if I need to. I don't need something that will be the fastest car on the planet, but I don't want a 6 cyl either. I don't want a trailer queen... I want to drive it. 4 speed would definately be preferable. Most of all, I want to buy a car that is what it is represented to be. I hate getting taken advantage of, and I guess that's why I feel like I'm dragging my feet.

"And how much do you want to pay?"

Like anybody else, I want the most for the least. But I understand the difference between cost and price, too, and I understand the difference between value and "cheap". The problem I have is that, because of my ignorance, I have no idea as to what constitutes a "good deal", so I'm stuck in a quagmire of uncertainty.

I sell hot tubs. 99% of the customers that come in really have no clue how to value what they're looking at. I have spas that I sell that cost over $10,000, and that's before you add gazebos, sound systems, etc. Down the street you can get a spa, gazebo, stereo, etc. for $6,000 or $7,000. If somebody buys a spa from me, they are getting a better deal than one ......."Same size, bigger pump, more jets, etc....." down the street because of quality, service, energy efficiency, warranty, etc. I can justify it to my customers and, when they buy, they know what they are paying for.

For me, in this journey, it's a mystery because I am like my customers.... I have no clue what value is. I don't mind paying $20,000 for a car, but I want $20,000 worth, not $15,000. Best would be to pay $15,000 and get $20,000 worth, but there's too much competition and I'm too ignorant.

"And how much will you have to pay?"

Ahh........... the question of the ages.

At least you were smart enough to find this site and get advice. My advice would be to by an entry level car, but one that doesn't need a ton of work. Spend a year or two learning about the cars and deciding what you really want (and how to spot it) and then upgrade.

I'm not sure if I was "smart" in finding this site or not. Call it Divine intervention, or luck, but I just stumbled upon it in my quest. However I came about it, I consider it fortunate. Everyone here has been so helpful... without it I am sure I would have made a mistake in a purchase by now. Thanks to all........... continuing the mission.

Car #1 – (I got to see and drive this one) – 68 SS. It’s been owned by the same guy for over 25 years. [/SIZE][/FONT]
- 350 4 bolt, 308 posi, orig 4 speed 10 bolt…. Mostly original car


? "Mostly original car"...
Not with a '10-bolt' (and that extra iberglass...) it's not. ;)

I'd be inclined to think there's a particular sea-food smell asscociated with this one that you might come to regret.
Even though I'm a bigger fan of '68's than 69's, I'd still be inclined to consider the 69 over the 68 between these two cars.
The 69 seems to be more of a driver than - oh, look what I found needs fixed now - vehicle that the 68 seems to be tilting towards...

As always - JMHO's

OK - Ready for some news? (Notice how I didn't say "GOOD" news?). I guess if it was no news it would be good news. But it's just "news", so I guess it's not good. Enough of the stall tactics... off we go:

Well, I GOT A 69!!! Well, yes and no. You see, with all the posts, PM's. and emails I have received with words of wisdom and advice about what not to do, you'all left out one piece of instruction.... nobody ever told me to make sure it was a Camaro? (LOL) . I bought a 1969 Lemans convertible. (....... waiting for the laughter to stop befoire I continue......)

Done laughing yet? Good. So, here's what happened:

I've got my feelers out all over the place. I have alerted friends, co-workers, family, strangers.......... "I'm tellin everybody!" So one of my friends (you may not call him that after I'm done) calls me up...

"Hey, Steve - I just saw this ad on the internet for a 69 convertible up in Stockton (only about 30 miles from here). I know you want a Camaro, but this looks like a killer deal... let's go check it out!"

So, long story short:
We went
We saw
I bought

I know, I know. an idiot. My first car, it's not a Camaro, it's a restoration project, etc. But, here's my strategy:

I figured I would not want to buy a project Camaro. I want one that is at least mostly done. I want a driver, one that I can enjoy right from the first day, and learn about over time. But, since I know absolutely nothing about cars, restoration, etc. I figured, "why not learn on a car that I have no emotional attachment to." I can play with it, make mistakes, blow or burn something up, have some fun, go through automobile boot camp, and go at my own pace. Then, as time goes along, the mistakes I make will not be made on my Camaro. Sounds logical..... or is this just rationalization for impatience and poor judgement? LOL

So, I now have a plan. I know for sure that I am not going to buy a project Camaro. Maybe if I keep buying other cars I will be able to narrow the list a little more. Ha Ha.

Now my time is really divided. I am still on as much of a search for a Camaro as ever, but at the same time I have to begin my research on what to do and how to do it to get this Lemans going in the right direction. I search for hours a day, still looking for my Camaro. Someone told me that I will know the right one when I see it. I want one tomorrow, but now that i have a passifier (Lemans) at least I might be able to calm down a little and get some sleep.

I haven't taken any pics yet. When I do I'll fighre out how to put them up in a "bucket" so you can all see what kind of disaster I have gotten myself into. For now I think it's kind of fun. We will see what remains to be seen.

Your comments, suggestions, and criticism is welcome. I can take it. I know I've done smarter things before, but it was pretty cheap, so I'm not worried. I don't think I can ever get hurt on the deal. One thing's for sure: it can't be any worse that keeping my money in a CD at the bankhttp://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif
Steve

WOW!!! When you said strange story That was far from a thought. I kinda like your thinking though. Good luck with it.......just don't loose sight of your "Dream" car.

Well, a big congrats from me, as long as the top goes down, I like it!

SO CHECK THIS OUT!

My friend? The one who coerced me into going to Stockton to get that Lemans? Well, he has a buddy who has a tiny car lot, and a side business of towing cars for impound. This Lemans I bought has one bad wheel, so my friend calls his friend who has the towing business to find out if, by chance, he has a set of rims around that I could get.

He says yes.
My friend goes over
They start talking
My friend tells him the whole story... wants a Camaro, NEEDS a Camaro, etc.

Turns out....... this guy's cousin has had a Camaro convertible sitting in his garage / driveway / whatever since at least 1975, when he landed in the US. Just sitting.....rotting away. So, I find out tomorrow if my friend's friend's cousin will let his "Barn find" Camaro convertible go to a good home.

So, to anyone who might have skoffed at my insane idea of getting this Lemans, HA! LOL We'll see.............. to be continued.

Hey Dream,

good luck on the vert. set it up to meet the owner of the car...if you can, tell your freind YOU want to meet the owner and that you just want to talk to him about the camaro and see it...be ready to buy, make a deal.."cash talks"..everythings for sale..most of the time....

Car 2 sounds like the better deal. My wife found mine on line in New Mexico in 2002. Me and a buddy flew to New Mexico and drove the car back (I live in West Virginia!). We had a blast and no problems.

Since then, I have had the car repainted and pretty major restro. I currently have the car in the shop for a new ZZ4. The 327 had some "issues" I got tired of dealing with. I will pull it and put it up somewhere so I can rebuild it later.

Good Luck!

DJ

Now I will be able to begin weaving the dream... "I'm gonna get a trailer" 'cause i got a car! Ta Da. it's kind of kool story, if you're into that sort of thing. May be longwinded, (not that I'm ever accused of that http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif), but here goes:

A couple of weeks ago a TC member, "Stevea" posted a thread about how he found 3 Camaros up in his neck of the woods in Portland, Or. area. He wanted some input as to how much people on TC thought they might be worth. There was a Burnished Brown RS/SS, an SS and a plain Jane. (To see the thread look under "Bench Racing" Looking at two 69 RS SS Camaros and one 69 plane jane Friday (http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79136) ). I sent him a PM, told him about my quest, pointed him to my thread, and told him I would be very interested in finding out more of what he uncovers. He called me back within a day or so, we talked, and he told me he would let me know as soon as he had the opportunity to check them out.

That was on April 13th. I waited for about a week and sent him an email, letting him know I was still interested and wanted to make sure I was kept in the loop. He replied back to me that he was just waiting for the seller to make the cars available for a time to preview them. Time dragged on until Tuesday, April 25th, when Steve A called me to let me know that he was going to go look at the cars that night.

He called me later that evening and told me that the RS/SS had already been sold to a friend of the seller, but that the other 2 were still available. The Plain Jane was kind of wierd... painted lavender, etc. but the SS looked all original.... #'s matching, build sheet, original paint, stock everything. He told me that the seller was going to put it on ebay but would let me have a crack at it. I told him I was very interested and would get back to him the following day.

I immediately proceeded to doa search on TC to see if I could find a member in the Portland area who would be able and willing to go look at the car for me to authenticate it and give me a report back as to the condition of the car. This worked begore when Chris, aka 69CamaroFast and Gary L met with me in Fresno, where they are from, to do the same.

I got a reply back from a member David (I don't know his TC name) telling me that he couldn't go but that he knew of a guy Named Denny Finn in Molalla, Or. who used to be the VP of the Columbia River Camaro Club and owned a well respected restoration shop. Small world: Steve A lives in Molalla as too! I contacted Denny and had about an hour long conversation with him. Once satisfied that I felt he was the real deal, I agreed to compensate him for previewing the car for me.

Last night Denny Finn met with Steve A at the seller's house at approximately 7:00 p.m. When he got there he began looking at the car and, after a general preview, he called me to give me a preview of his first look. At that time I was logged onto the chat room and told the visitors there that I should be hearing soon about the car. When Dennt called me I had my bluetooth on and decided to begin typing what Denny was telling me. RamAirDave, Chevy thunder, 69CamaroFast, Zuma, gjack and jackalope were all on chat. I just started typing everything Denny was telling me and it became a play-by-play of what the findings on the car were. Some of the guys in the chat were telling me what questions to ask, what else he should look for and specifics of the data (cowl, etc.). It was pretty bizarre:

I'm in Modesto Ca., the seller, the guy who found the car and the "inspector" are all in Oregon, guys from other parts of N. Ca., Arkansas and who knows where are all in the confines of the chat room (unbeknownst the the "Three Amigos" in Oregon) getting the low down on this car. It went on from 8:54 p.m. until 9:41 p.m. (I saved the chat log).

When all was said and done I knew I had to make a decision. I have been warned by several people that, when the opportunity presents itself I need to be "there" with the money, ready to pull the trigger. I was advised that I should offer him a little less, but it wasn't worth it to me to loball the deal and risk losing the opportunity. So I told the seller I would buy the car for the asking price.

I contacted a friend of mine in Vancouver, Wa. who agreed to do the transaction for me at 9:00 a.m. this Saturday and store it at his house until I can make arrangements to get the car.It feels like it's been an eternity searching for a car, but it's almost over. Actually, it's just begun!

Thanks to everyone mentioned above, others who have helped me by posting to this thread, and any others I might have left out. Most of all, thanks to Team Camaro for making this forum available. Without it I would not have found this car and, for sure, I would not have had the exposure to the knowledge base to make a somewhat informed decision. I will post pics here as soon as I get them.

Steve

Congrats to you Steve, Can't wait to see pics.

Keith

That is an awesome story! I just read the whole thread!! I just bought a car sight unseen (unseen by ME) and it has turned out ok. Good luck with the new car!!!

I love happy endings.. :thumbsup: Cant wait to see pics.

Pictures, Steve!, Pictures!! :thumbsup:

I think I did this right???? See if this link works or not (first time doing the photobucket thingie):

http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j271/dreamweaver10/
3 Sections:

Engine
Interior
Exterior

9:52 p.m. ----
THE CAR IS ON THE TRAILER
THEY ARE HEADED TO THE BANK TO GET THE CASH
IT SHOULD BE AT MY FRIENDS HOUSE IN VANCOUVER, WA. BY HIGH NOON

http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Steve, Ya done good!!...:beers: :D http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j271/dreamweaver10/Exterior/FromPost_carfront.jpg
Love the color!!

Dreamweaver -- congrats on the 69 --- I was lucky and found one too -- it needs a lot of work, but hey that's what I wanted. Check out the photos on my thread "Got My 69!!"

It's strange how interpretation is everything. Here you are excited about your new car....! ME TOO!!! This difference is this:

Your excitement and mine are quite a bit different, yet somewhat the same. We are both excited about getting a 69 Camaro, no arguement. But here's where we differ: You are looking at this project like,

"OH BOY! I CAN'T WAIT TO DIG INTO THIS AND SEE WHAT I CAN DO WITH IT!"

I look at my project and say to myself:

OH MAN! WHAT HAVE I GOTTEN MYSELF INTO???

I have full confidence that, with as much help as I have had thus far from TC members in gettingthe car, that much more will come when it comes time for everyone to start bottle-feeding me on how to restore it properly.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

LMAO
OH MAN! WHAT HAVE I GOTTEN MYSELF INTO???

U brought a project, not got married lol
hmmm thinking about that, there isnt much diff is there? lol

Nice car, looks like a great starting point. I've been following your thread for a while, just wanted to say congratulations!

ahhh now i can get some sleep!..;) ..its been fun looking for you Dream...first thing i would do is get it home...when i found mine out in a field the first thing i did was bring it home..clean it up and i went through everything...write down everything you want done...frame off restoration? or just get it in doors your garage..clean it up and think about it for a little while..its nice to get your ideas and write them down..keep us up to date..congrats..:beers: ..let us know when we are going to have a comming home camaro party!!..:thumbsup: ..

I will temporarily change the direction of this thread as I wait for my "bride".

Steptoe,

You are close, but a little off. Let me help you out here. A project car isn't like a marriage........ it's like finding the right mate. When looking for a car, I found that there were certain aspects of the looking process that were similar to the human mating experience, but these corollaries were more in kinship to the courting process than marriage. Allow me to explain:

In looking for a first generation Camaro I found myself doing and thinking the following. Just think of it in terms of a girl, rather than a car:

Spend countless hours looking for the perfect model
Look in all the “proper” places
Try to be discreet, yet make your quest known
Dress appropriately, but not too nice
Look, sample what is available, but don't be hasty
If it's really attractive you can't touch it
Once you think you've found the right one, you have to act quickly.
If you hesitate, someone else will swoop in and snake it from you
If you wanna make a move you better have cash
When you are prospecting, especially if you are new to the game, even the dogs look good to you.
Don't drive the nicest car you own when you're going out on a first look for that perfect one... if you do you may give the impression that you have lots of money and end up paying for it inthe end.
You have to find true friends who will be with you, talk some sense into you, and help you be rational about the whole thing. After all, it's ONLY a car!
Once you have the right one you have to be willing to pay the price.
It may require deeper scrutiny. If this is going to be a long-term committment you want to be as sure as you can before taking the plunge
If you are unsure, talk to the experts. It may even be prudent to pay for professional help before the deal has been consumated.
Once you have made the decision go for it. In for a penny, in for a pound.
You may discover that you did not get exactly what you hoped for but, once you have invested all that money it's difficult to look back
If you make a mistake you will know better the next time. When all is said and done you may discover that, you not not get the "car of your dreams" but, if you do a nice enough overhaul, you will be able to look past the imperfections and get everything out of it you want. When you're done you may want to trade it in for a newer, better model, but you can make that determination a little further down the road. For now, it's all about having fun. Once the newness wears off, and you figure out how much you really have invested then, and only then, will you know if you have made the right decision. For now you can hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and get the most out of it as you can in the meantime.

Damn Steve, If I would have thought that much about the similarities of finding my car and getting married....I think I would have:
A garage full of Camaro's and Still be single.

Thanks for sharing your journey and good luck with that gorgous car.

Keith

Congrats, Steve, you done good. Looks like all that car needs is a weekend with a hose and a scrub brush!

It's strange how interpretation is everything. Here you are excited about your new car....! ME TOO!!! This difference is this:

Your excitement and mine are quite a bit different, yet somewhat the same. We are both excited about getting a 69 Camaro, no arguement. But here's where we differ: You are looking at this project like,

"OH BOY! I CAN'T WAIT TO DIG INTO THIS AND SEE WHAT I CAN DO WITH IT!"

I look at my project and say to myself:

OH MAN! WHAT HAVE I GOTTEN MYSELF INTO???

I have full confidence that, with as much help as I have had thus far from TC members in gettingthe car, that much more will come when it comes time for everyone to start bottle-feeding me on how to restore it properly.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

I have gone through this process before and know what to expect. I'm also fortunate to have a couple of close friends who help me (actually we help each other since we all own muscle cars). If it wasn't for their help I would not be able to take on a project like this. No matter what, you, me, and the rest of the folks on this forum are working to preserve a piece of American history and enjoy the benefits of owning these cars.

Thanks for all the comments. Although I think it may need just a tad more than a good bath, I'm up for it. I am beginning to learn the history on this car now, and here's what I have so far:

The seller is actually a member of TC. I don't know what his username is, but this car has actually been "registered with TC" (whatever and however that works) for, I guess, prevention of fraud down the line. Also this car has the original build sheet. Apparently the seller has contacted Kurt (or is it Curt? sorry) both via email as well by phone, in the past to get help deciphering the build sheet.

This owner has had it for 3 years but, after he recently picked up a 69 that he liked better, he decided to sell this one off. The previous owner had it sitting in his "barn" for over 20 years. I've done a little digging, and I now have the next owner down the list. As soon as I get the car I will be giving him a call. Supposedly this car was originally bought by a friend of his and, after the first 8 or 10 years of ownership, he just left it at his friends house ,expecting to be able to use it again. He never did, signed the title over to his friend, etc...

So we'll see how the story goes. From all parties involved who have seen it so far I am told that it looks like it really does have 39,ooo original miles. The seller, whom I will just call "Yogi" told me:

"95% of the car is 100% original!"

If that's the case, what are your recommendations for restoration. Specifically:

1. It has the original paint, which needs help. There's some rust in the typical places, but not bad at all. I will have the body work done and have it repainted. I am good with the original coror (Phantom Green) or with a different color..Should I stay with original color?

2. It needs a few things. So Far I know it needs:

Wheel Well Moldings
Rocker moldings
Voltage regulator
350 and SS fender emblems
1/4 gills
The grill
One wheel (the other three are original)
Sill plates
Exhaust
The carpet smells a bit moldy... guess I'll replace that tooDo I go with NOS, reproduction, or ???

3. It has all the original drivetrain. I will replace all gaskets, seals, etc. and at least detail the engine. I don't want to rebuild anything unless I have to. But, should I paint the engine? The engine compartment?

I'm trying to do as much research in advance of getting the car so that when I get it I will have a plan in place. Since it only has 39,000 orig miles I will not put a lot of miles on it, but I will drive it. I plan on keeping it for the rest of my life (although everyone warns me "Never say "Never". With this in mind what suggestions do you have? All comments are welcome. Thanks,

Steve

I don't know anything about your car, but I would go with nos parts.

After looking at your interior pics in your photobucket album, I see it has an aftermarket or dealer installed air conditioning. I don't know which; don't have any expertise in that area. Does the air conditioning work? The condenser is present in your engine compartment pics, but I don't see a compressor.

You know, I don't see a compressor either??? Oh..... wait... I forgot.......

I have no clue what a compressor or a condensor looks like http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif (I even laugh at myself sometimes, so you guys can have one on me too!

That's OK - I'm sure I'll know soon enough. The most recent update goes like this:

A friend of mine from Modesto bought a Charger in Reno about 200 miles away from here
He has it dragged to a guy's place who does soda blasting
The guy who owns the soda blasting service rents some of his lnad to a transport place
I call the transport place and, as it turns out, one of their drivers is ONE HIS WAY to Portland later that day (about 20 miles from where my car is)
We strike a deal for him to pick up my car, keep it over the weekend, and deliver it to me next Tuesday when he has to make a run to San Francisco to pick up some more cars.... All for $300.00I'm stoked. Not only am I getting the car at least one to two weeks sooner than expected, but it's only costing 1/2 as much as the next best price I was quoted. The company is bonded, insured for $1,000,000.00, etc.

Even better is the fact that the guy who owns the soda blasting shop is coming to the Turlock Swap meet this weekend (about 20 miles from me). He has 3 1959 Impala's he's going to try to get rid of, and he said he'd take my Lemans and put it in his space and try to get rid of it for me. So, if I get rid of the Lemans, dump the BMW, and dropkick the 69 Dodge truck I can take all the cash, find a good resto place locally, and get my car done. Well..... sounds good.... we'll see.

I got a few more pics should you car to take a gander.

http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j271/dreamweaver10/

A big Congrads Steve, you done real good. I am sure you will have loads of fun with the new ride. Love the color!

May 3rd, 2006

· The car is loaded and on it’s way “Home”- After one more “Keystone Cops” routine, the car was loaded:
o The transport company that I hired to pick up and deliver originally told me that they would pick up the car either Wednesday or Thursday. I gave them all of my friend's (where the car is being stored) and my contact information and they said they would contact us. By 9:30 today (Wednesday) they had not contacted either of us. So I called they transport company and they told me that the driver would be picking up the car today. I asked him if he could give me an ETA and he said he would have to call the driver and find out for me and call me back.
o I had a golf date scheduled for today with a friend and business associate that I thought about breaking so I could handle the logistics of the car pick up but, after talking to theI owner of the transport company I felt everything was under control. Besides my friend drove all the way over here from the Bay Area, so I would have felt bad for breaking the golf date, so I went forward with the day as planned. Little did I know…..
o I called my friend and told him what was going on, and he was fine with it. I told him I should know soon about the timeline and would get back to him. The previous day I told him that, since they had to kind of jump the car to get it started when he picked it up it may be a good idea to charge the battery. He said he would borrow a charger from his neighbor, but never got it. I asked him if he would stop by an auto parts store and pick one up for me, and he agreed. One more thing for my friend to do to put him out. But, he’s been a real sport and appears to be fine with the whole thing.
o When I got to the golf course I left my phone on the whole time, something I loathe when other players do. But, since it was just me and a friend I decided to do it anyway. My biggest concern was that everything went smoothly for my friend that was storing the car… he had been through enough already and I didn’t want him to have to deal with any more hassle.
o I kept looking for a call from the transport company, but nothing. When we got done playing golf I called my friend to find out if he had heard anything. No answer. I called the transport company, and they couldn’t tell me anything either… they had not called my firend, and they had not talked to the driver about his ETA to pick up the car. I was a little perturbed that they hadn’t followed through, but they gave me the driver’s number and I decided to figure it out.
o When I called the driver he said he was just south of Portland… about 30 minutes from my friend's house. GREAT! I can’t get in touch with my friend to tell him that the driver is showing up at his house in 30 minutes, and he’s not at work either. Oh.... there's yet one more monkey wrench in the gears: The driver tells me he doesn’t think he can turn his rig around on my friend's street, so we will have to figure out another way to get the car loaded.
o I called my friend. He’s out trying to get the battery hooked up, but there’s 2 red cables and no black cable. He’s not sure which one goes to which post. Since I have no clue what to tell him I decide to call Steve, they guy who found this car for me in the first place and transported it to my friend's house to see if he can tell me. When I called Steve he was tied up at the time, so I called seller. He gave me instructions as to which cable goes to which post on the battery, and I relayed that information to my friend.
o I gave my friend the driver’s number and he said he would call him and make a plan. What he ended up doing is driving the car to a location in town that the driver could easily load up the car. My friend was kind of nervous because the car had no license plates and, because it has no tail pipes, is VERY loud. He said, “I just hope I don’t get pulled over by a cop”. Oh brother…here we go.
o GUESS WHAT? This time everything went smooth. No problems, the car was loaded, and it’s finally on its way home. I had my friend Fed Ex the title and the Build Sheet separately from the car… it should be here by tomorrow, and the car is expected to arrive Tuesday, April 9th.
I sent my friend the following email:

Thanks for doing this for me. I’ve decided that, after all this, I don’t want the car anymore. I know it sounds crazy but now I’ve decided I want a Z-28. I’ve called the transport company and they are having the driver turn around and drop the car back to you sometime on Friday. Once you have the car in your possession you will receive a tape recorded message in the glovebox giving you exact instructions on your next procedure. Your Mission, should you decide to take it, will be to extract the cash from the previous seller and use it to obtain a higher-value car for the same amount of money.

This email will self destruct in 5 seconds.

THE EAGLE HAS LANDED
Well, the first leg of the journey has finally come to a close. My car arrived this afternoon at 1:16 p.m. (exactly :) ). I am now one of

THE FEW
THE PROUD
THE CAMARO OWNERS!!!

I feel almost giddy. I just stood there beaming from ear to ear, soaking it all in as the car rolled off the transport. Kind of spooky when the driver said,

" er, I think you better move that other car... the brakes arent too good and I wouldn't trust it too much coming off the ramps..."

Way to mak a guy feel queezy dude! So I moved the other car and prayed that it wouldn't crash into the house when it came off the truck. All went fine, the car came down the ramps, and I just sat in in for a while. What a feeling to finally realize my dream.

After the transport left and the wife went inside I poured some gas down the throat of the tank, lit her up, and peeled out all over town, did a bunch of doughnuts in the middle of the street, and tried to race about a half dozen people...... you didn't really fall for that, did you? Are you kidding me??? I gently shut the door, drove it about 2 mph over between the barn and the garden shed, parked another car in back of it, rolled down the windows and just stood there and looked at it for a while. Then I went back to work. ha ha

Thanks to everyone who helped me in my quest for the car of my dreams. So many of you have helped me through this saga, I feel like you're my best friends. I can't wait to start a new thread to pick everyone's brains about where to start, how to proceed, and what to do next. I think I'll call it

"I'm gonna break a 69" lol

...........to be continued

M8...I read everyone of your updates....Often several times...Just brings back many fine memories...
The 1st thing I did was straighten all the x and - screws the same way, or in line with whatever was around them...pet hate of mine lol
Even the door handle scews in the house are lined up! lol

Congrats Steve. It has been fun following your story and Emailing you when I see a car for sale. Nice to see you finally got your dream car. If you need help with anything give me a hollar, I am just around the corner in Riverbank. I would love to check it out sometime.

So, I figure this thread is about done. Of course, if you want to post to it, by all means do so......IT'S AMERICA

But, to continue the "Saga" I have started a new thread,

"Gonna fix a 69" --- Hope it's as much fun for me as this one has been.
Dreamin

Where are the pics of the car????

Sorry... thought I posted them before. This is what I have so far... they were taken before I got the car. I snaped a few pics yesterday when it landed but I am going to wait until I can get some good pics and clean up my photobucket at that time. Here they are for now:

http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j271/dreamweaver10/

Anyone believe in destiny? Somehow I think I was "meant" to be a part of TC. Too many good things have happened since becoming a part of it to be coincindental. Here's the most recent "twist":

Remember the Lemans? The car that I bought on total impulse because of my impatience in waiting for the Camaro? Well, I sold it, and it was because of the guy who led me to the Camaro that it got sold. Just as a refresher:

SteveA posts on TC that he knows of 3 Camaros for sale
I buy one of the cars

Well, Steve and I have been in contact ever since. We have a few things in common, and he's has realyl been trying his best to help me in my general ignorance about cars. We've even had a little fun. One of the things he recently did was he emailed me a post on Craigslist for a Lemans convertible for sale up in the Portland area. It was kind of a wreck compared to mine, and, knowing how I just wanted to wash my hands of my Lemans, he jokingly offered me $1,000 to "take it off my hands".

I thought I'd play it out, so I posted the car for sale in the Craigslist in his are, in Portland (which is about 600 miles away). I did it as a joke, and then I sent him the link. It was pretty late at night and, after a few emails back and forth with some barbs in jest, I just went to bed. I figured I would leave it on the Craigslist up there for fun, and to see if anything might happen.

2 days later I got an email form a guy in New York. He's a collector, and he ended up buying my car.

I never would have posted it there if it wasn't for Steve ribbing me, and I never would have found Steve if it wasn't for TC. But, then again, I probably wouldn't have been consumed by this virulent disease in the first thing if it wasn't for TC......Still trying to figure out if that's a good thing or a bad thing :clonk: