Hey guys,

Been having issues when I go to start my 69. I usually get a loud CLANK when I turn the key to the ignition position. I go back to disengage, then turn back to start and get another CLANK. A few clanks later it will finally turn over and purr fine.

Added a .060 shim to the ~.040 shim that was already in there to back the starter away from the flywheel. CLANK.

There is a whine after I finally get it to fire up. Exactly 4 seconds while the starter is still spinning after the motor fired. Not grinding but spinning. Normal?

Thought it might be a weak batt or batt connection, like not enough juice to start. Changed out batt/terminal hardware and tightened down real good. CLANK.

So, pulled my Jeep up next to and hooked up the jumpers to see if it was a weak batt. CLANK. Start. CLANK.

Not sure what to take a look at next. Bad solenoid?? That bastard is awefully close to the header.

Thanks in advance for the always good advice. :beers:

It could be the solenoid or the starter drive, but I would shim it so it lines up.

Once you shim it up correctly, try it again, if it's out of alignment you could ruin the flywheel or ring gear.

Most places that sell starters will give you a alignment pin, and the instruction sheet with it. While you're there pick up some extra shims in case you need them.

It might take a few trys to get it shimed right, but well worth the effort.

Rob

Yeah, It sounds like an alignment problem. The "Clank" you hear is the Bendix gear hitting the flywheel. How is the Ring gear on the flywheel? Check to see if it is not worn or missing any teeth off the gear. Also, get a support bracket at the rear of the starter if you don't have one. It keeps the starter from jumping around.

Hi !

I have kind the same problem, exept on my case it doesn't seem to be the starter hitting the flywheel, it is like a horrible noise like the engine wants to crank in the wrong rotation and against the starter causing the starter to groan of pain, litteraly.

The very supprising think is that it doesn't do it everytime. Sometimes it starts just fine.

I tried two different starters, the newly rebuilt original one and a mini starter that i shimmed correctly.
THe mini starter makes a better job but still this problem happens. It is really like it doesn't get enough power to turn the flywheel.

I have a good battery but maybe it is too little. All electrical connections are new.

Any change i made to the engine since the previous configuration when i could crank without problem is : changing all bottom up and adding compression with a thinner head gasket.

I am confused. I am at the point I am scared to turn the ignition key.

Marc

Marc, How big is the battery? Does it have enough CCA's (Cold Cranking Amps) to turn over the engine? It sounds like you have a high compression motor needing more power to the starter motor to turn the flywheel. Is it easier to start the car in the morning when it is cold or after the car warms up or no difference at all? I would go with a bigger battery and see if that helps.

Well yes a larger battery helps but the bad noise remains.
Now this bad noise seems to comes from internal parts in the starter, it is defenetly a gears noise.
Should these noise be there because the starter suffered so much from some bad cranking trials before I changed the battery?

I still have to buy a new battery, as for some trials I put a bigger battery which is from a donor car...
What Amp h and battery power capacity should I need to ensure no problems in the futur? SBC with 10:1 compression.

Thanks

I would say something in the 800 CCA's range. The bigger the better.

Are u using the correct starter mounting bolts? If not get the new correct ones

Ring gear looks very good. No teeth missing.

I'm thinking this is an alignment problem, but more so than shims can help out?? Starter gear looks like it engages VERY tightly, and only into about half the width of the flywheel. I've read:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64456

And know about the feeler gage & paperclips. Not sure I can do this as it's very tight in there.

There is a cover over the starter gear with a shaft between the cover and the starter housing the gear moves along. Man, the thick, outer end of that shaft is very close to the flywheel teeth. Prob. .030 or less. It seems like I need to move the starter farther away from the motor, and more towards the rear of the car.

So far I have (2) .060 shims in there, spanning both bolts. Any ideas how to position this thing right? Shim one side like crazy? Offset bolts on a 350 SB.

I think what may be happening is that the pinion stop is missing or worn out on your satrter. This is what prevents the starter overrunning clutch from hitting the ring gear on the flywheel, Probably the CLANK you hear. It's easy enough to pop the starter out and see if the stop and snap ring is missing. Another possibility is that the nose of the starter where the pinion stop hits is worn or damaged.

As far as the starter not spinning every turn of the key.....There is a copper disk on a plunger in the switch end of the solenoid that makes contact when the starter bendix is engaged. This passes current from the + battery cable on the solenoid to the starter motor windings. This copper disk can burn, pit, wear, corrode, get ugly etc. Easiest thing would be to replace the solenoid, however they used to sell replacements parts to over haul your unit. ( I dont know if they still do, I havent done one in quite a while.) The disk and contacts were sold over the parts counter in the "Help" packaging. Open up the switch end. If the old disk isnt too bad you can flip it over. Clean the contact points. reassemble and be good to go.

Oh, and if the bendix isnt releasing when the key is released (engine starts) it may be that the spiral splines that the bendix slides on are gunked up. If there isnt any obvious damage to the shaft or the return spring, a good cleaning / overhaul can cure that......Jb

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/2217000-2217999/2217852_107_full.jpg

it may be that the spiral splines that the bendix slides on are gunked up. If there isnt any obvious damage to the shaft or the return spring, a good cleaning / overhaul can cure that......Jb
And dont oil the splines think that will make then run smooth...it doesnt.
Reassemble clean and dry.
I and many others have been caught out by that...once lol.

Well, I guess the bottom line is to try out a different starter and see if that solves the problem. It's a process of elimination. Chances are that the starter might have multiple problems. You should just be able to install a new one without any problems.

Ah man, Johnny B, great pic. I should have referenced that one from the Service Manual when i was typing up my other messages.

Pinion stop is still there. In fact, my flywheel is REALLY close to the pinion stop. Like .030 close. Is this normal?? This whole starter & solenoid is pretty new.

I'll try replacing the solenoid and see how I make out. I'll inspect the starter then too. Thanks to all for the help!!!

:beers:

Well, replaced the solenoid today and now, no CLANK or anything! I have juice at the battery but no action or sound when I engage the ignition. Tried to jump, and same result. Any ideas? Will double check all connection points. Hoping to fix this today!! HELP!!

My guess is that your connections are wrong. Are the Purple and yellow wires on correctly making a good connection? The Purple wire is towards the engine and the yellow is towards the exhaust. Take a test light and see if you are getting power to both sides of the solenoid. Have someone turn the key and see if there is power to the switch (Purple wire) side of the solenoid. If not, the problem lies with the ignition switch. I'm sure it's not the switch though, because it worked before you changed out the solenoid. Double check all connections.

Thanks much for the quick reply! I have HEI on mine, so no yellow wire to the coil. Purple wire is connected to correct post on engine side. I just double checked the connections. I'll triple check and use the multimeter.

OK. Here are voltage readings. No ignition/ignition activated:

Battery 12.3/11.9
+ Batt terminal on solenoid 12.3/11.9
Purple wire terminal 0/6.9
Starter + terminal 0/0.14

WOW! Low voltage to starter motor, no!!!?? Bad new solenoid?? Could I have installed wrong?? Just spring and mounting bolts!! Haha

Thanks for the quick help.

OK! Got it to turn over & start w/o CLANK :) . Purple wire has a connector mid span back to the dash and **appeared** connected, but was loose! Haha, I now have the OLD solenoid in there. We'll see how long it sounds OK. I may be re-posting later today or tomorrow with stories of new solenoid re-install or another!! Haha.

i had the same problem with my 350 turns out i changed the starter and left out the shims and it works wonderfully. I would suggest trying to change out the starter and leave out the shim. if that doesn't fix your problem you may have a bad spot in your flywheel.

UPDATE

Well, all was hunky dory for the past couple months. Was starting every time, no problem. Until I took it for a long drive a few weeks ago on a real hot day. Think I heat soaked the solenoid. So I was tapping the solenoid with a hammer to get it to turn over about every start. But still, no clank.

So yesterday I installed a new heavy duty solenoid, heat wrap, etc. And now the CLANK is back!!! Grrrrrr! Again, starter is fairly new, and am thinking this must be an alignment problem. I have 1 shim in there now, but I guess I'll go monkey with it to see if I can get it lined up right.

Anybody have a pic of a correctly lined starter/flywheel? I'll see if I can get a shot of mine and post.

I've monkeyed with this for a few hrs. now and no luck. I'm now at 2 0.060 shims and no luck. As I said before, there is VERY little space between the ring gear and the pinion stop on the starter (see starter pic from page 1). It's maybe at 0.050 now but has been as close as .030. Is this normal?

Thinking what my next steps are. Maybe not enough power to the starter motor? Bendix is definitly hitting the flywheel, and sometimes sticking in it, but the starter motor is definitely not turning. Maybe bad starter motor? Connection from soleniod is good.

Thinking I may pull the starter/solenoid assembly and hook it up to a 12V source to see if it spins up. This should verify that the starter motor is OK. Sounds like an OK plan to you guys?

UPDATE

Bench tested starter, and bad starter motor. New motor and all is OK! For now...:p