Hi to all. Great site. After reading about 4500+ of your posts yesterday. I learned an immense amount about camaros and wanted to ask the pros about the car I just bought. It is a 69, has the welded plate on left rear rail, single 3/8 fuel line, small block heater, five leaf rear springs, no a/c, four speed, 12 bolt with 4:10, no tach or console, rear defog, wood grain dash, power disc brakes with us code m/c, speedo cable exit near trans,two piece throttle rod, dual chambered exhaust,12B on pop with no x code, no motor, and like all 69 camaros,LOL, Z-28 badges. I have the numbers off the pop and vin if it helps. Bought it from the third owner who bought it from his uncle in '86 when he was 16. He thinks he remembers his uncle having the orig motor that came out of the car but hasn't seen him since. (lives on the other side of the country now.) Did I learn enough from you guys to really find a real one? Either way its a cool car with lots of interesting stories of his youthful four speed 4:10 posi antics (which led to the car getting parked in "89) to keep me amused for a long time. Thank in advance for any input, Paul

welcome to TC and please post all the info. off the POP card for sure, along with the VIN and Cowl tag info. and axle and tranny numbes too. It all helps. :)

69 12437 NOR144364BDY
723 57 57 pnt
12B
VIN 124379N559057

I don't have the axle/trans codes yet as the car is still at my buddies house that I bought it from. Thanks for the quick reply! Paul

I forgot to say, I went over there this morning (where the car is) and pulled the back seat out to look for the yellow x code on the rear seat bulkhead and it wasn't visable through all the rusty discoloration and such, so we sprayed aluminum wheel cleaner acid on the top pass side of the bulkhead and let it sit for awhile, wiped off, then resprayed, ect. Then what do you know, The letters GRN 3 came visable. Where the x should have been there was a glob a glue or something that that had run down from the level place on top and never showed anything. It came out pretty clear, enough to show in pics I took. Paul

Souns like you did a bit of research, the numbers you posted are from the trim tag, a POP tag would be in a pamplet, it is a peice a metal with all the cars engine,trans,rear axel info including build dates stamped into it. If you have the POP post those numbers for an exact determination of the cars equiptment.

http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#POPCodes for POP info

hmmm... Seat partition says GRN ? 3, I wonder what x code has a 3 in it? :D

We need the pics of the seat back and POP! :)

1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
4 = 8-cylinder engine
37 = coupe body
9 = 1969 model year
N = Norwood, OH assembly plant
559057 = vehicle serial number sequence

Decode for body number: 144364

12B = Built the Second week of December.
69-12437 = Coupe.
NOR = Built in Norwood Ohio.
723 = Standard Midnight Green Bucket Seats.
57-57 = Car Color is Fathom Green

I thought the pop was the same as the cowl tag. So much for my research. LOL. Tell me how and where you want the pics posted and I will do my best to post them. If I understand correctly, if I become a member I will be able to post pics easy? Hmmmm membership 19.95. Cheap for all I've learned from you guys. Let me know. Paul

Sounds good so far...does the car have the UH code radiator in it ? Post the pictures. If you are unable to do so email them to me if you want and I will psot them.

Welcome to the site !

there is POP in this auction for refrence

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4634795933

How cool would that be to have that plate? No I don't. I emailed a few pics to chevy thunder. He should be posting them soon. No rad in it either. Thanks for the interest everyone. Paul

What state are you located in? I ask because I know of a twin to your car, only a few #'s off. Possibly ordered by the same dealer....

Trans and axle codes will be helpful.

Here are the pictures of Paul's rear seat bracing with the writing..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/ChevyThunder/zpic2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/ChevyThunder/zpic1.jpg

I am in Fl., but my friend that I bought it from used to live in Indiana, where his uncle that he bought it from still lives as far as he knows. The uncle had a whole collection of cool gm muscle cars when my friend bought it from him. This all is better than the "national treasure movie" by far. The car is still at my friends shop and I have been driving all the way over there every day to check new things on the car. I will have to wait awhile to check thoose #'s and gwet some work done around here. LOL. Thanks

So I would have to say that based on Paul/jcrvette's other car..this Camaro found a good home...check it out ..Pauls "other" Chevy :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/ChevyThunder/Untitled-3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/ChevyThunder/Untitled-4.jpg

Thanks chevy thunder for the kind words and help. I HOPE ALL YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT A BLESSING YOU ARE to people like me. If it weren't for you guys I would not be restoring it as orig as possible. I would build a driver. But now that I'm 95% sure its a Z, I will try to find a DZ a close to #s as I can. Maybe my friends uncle still has that dz after 20yrs? I know this car had a hard life for a few years. The trans was run with no lube and siezed up. The guy said that he can't remember if it was rebuilt or replaced, but the longer he thinks about it, he thinks rebuilt. (to much teenage partying) so it may be orig. The rear was put in a drag car that I built for him about 5yrs ago. Told him several times don't do it but he did anyway. The rear is intact exept for the spring pads (anyone have orig pad brkts?). Now we laugh and say why did you do it. He said replace the rear with a 12 bolt or nine inch and a can have it back. So I will. It had a 3 series posi with 4.10 and spacer. That is how the car got parked in '89. Big burnout and the ring gear bolts ripped out. He also had a front wheel come off at 80mph and destroy some type of two piece rotor that was hard to find. Never heard of them what is it? Is it special? Thanks again. Paul

couldn't wait. went and got the trans #- P7A11 3885010 3088336 Also the flywheel has these #'s 8791021 F157 GM4 Steering arm 395321 with 276 8 on box. If my wife asks, I've been at the shop all day. LOL Paul

there should be a surgeons general's type of warning on the home page, because this web site is absolutley addicting!!!!

The trans and flywheel look like 67 model year pieces. Trans is a Muncie, 67 MY, Jan 11 assembly. Flywheel was cast June 15 in a year ending in 7, probably 67.

Are we pretty sure its real then? If so, what numbers (range) should I be looking for as far as trying to find a DZ motor for it?

Paul..did you ever look to see what kind of radiator the car has?

it has a auto trans rad with it . The guy I got it from said when his uncle got the car it had been run off the road through some small trees and had little dents and dings in it and that a lot of the body panels got replaced at that time.I saw the pics of the car when it was stripped to metal for a repaint in about 86 and the body was excellent.Thinking it probably got a used rad? I have done paint/body for 25yrs+ and think they did a above average job. They changed the color to blue, jambs and all. Car was definatly apart. They also put black deluxe interior in.Would never know if I didn't know orig paint code. Someone did a nice job, even as fussy as I am.

Wanted to take a minute to thank everyone for the help. I was hoping to get enough info to return this car to it's former glory, what ever it may have been. If it is a z i wanted to find a motor for it that would be close just to keep another z car from falling away, not to rip somone off when I sell it. It seems interest was high when I was giving out numbers for the registry. I guess for the five grand I paid for it, another full tube chassis drag car like my chevy II wont be hard to do since the body is so clean (exept for the rockers). definatly a lot easier/cheaper than trying to find a missing motor and putting the color back to green. Thanks again for the help. Paul

Im a little confused :confused: At what point was the conclusion drawn that its a Z? Not being sarcastic...just wondering if i missed something in this post.

Thorpe .. I don't think it has been concluded yet . The car does have GRN X3 behind the rear seat and as a 12B build this is right near the switch over to X codes , of course that could have been added later...3/8 fuel line , dual exhaust hanger and a 4:10 rear end..would like to know the code on the rear axle to see if it is original.. of course without original drive train or documents there is no way to know for sure .

Thorpe .. I don't think it has been concluded yet . The car does have GRN X3 behind the rear seat and as a 12B build this is right near the switch over to X codes , of course that could have been added later...3/8 fuel line , dual exhaust hanger and a 4:10 rear end..would like to know the code on the rear axle to see if it is original.. of course without original drive train or documents there is no way to know for sure .

Understood..thanks.